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On Logging

Fred Hollings

Accession Number Interviewer
Date Location
Media tape Audio CD mp3
ID 94 Topic




Unknown Speaker 0:00
All right well, I have a logging operator. I came here as a logging operator I brought to Fuqua here

Unknown Speaker 0:14
How many men were recruited 10 And they were more fun

Unknown Speaker 0:18
than most most similar Aha I desire some island men

Unknown Speaker 0:23
may even be relatives did you come with family

Unknown Speaker 0:26
no relatives? No I've had no gotten a wife but you're brought her along but I had no no relatives working

Unknown Speaker 0:36
and these are these guys which is friend of yours or guy that you hired on and you

Unknown Speaker 0:42
can very well some of them have been working with us for years they worked off and on for maybe 1520 years off and off so they stayed on the island with no they are they brother stayed on the island while we were on that a lot of the work here but there we go and then they come back to TV just worked for a while look for maybe six months or a year or two months when they go to out they get fed up or they go

Unknown Speaker 1:07
so what

Unknown Speaker 1:11
we had I don't know the weather may be or probably the conditions are they get bored of being on Saltspring terrible place you know the last place on earth some people have thought is Wonder braggy but anyway, I think it'd be a b2b to stick to that the didn t this is it is beautiful island

Unknown Speaker 1:33
Yeah, okay. So your work you would say you would have a crew did you say 10 Men

Unknown Speaker 1:39
Well I think there was about 10 but they weren't all I didn't bring them on to this island some of the men were hired on the island up to followers the followers and backers we're here lever Island man but the login crew were all by dropped almost linear at that time but was working many are you you sometimes you you know the mascot but pretty good Turkey goes away and then you hire another man and firemen or something like this type of things in because you may react to changing volunteers. Some of them might stay with you for quite a while but some of the Fallen like I said you know they stay diseases worked for him for years.

Unknown Speaker 2:18
So it's sort of a fluctuating thing

Unknown Speaker 2:22
Brasserie logging is you know men monitors your that's no longer that way they work in a cap for a while some of them they call them cap inspectors, they work for a month and then they get political somewhere else. And the grass is greener up that those those men that work from GAAP to GAAP of law employment to the other firm and they call them cat inspectors. Because well the food right now they get up some morning and it's the barbecuing on and the legs look overcooked. They're not cooked enough then they quit. Or the weather looks bad or too hot or something maybe too much color. I've seen fellas quit because of too much display. Because the end of the day so that goes on to put up with this. We do this the kind of thing this to us this fly that we

Unknown Speaker 3:09
see. So you are always the boss when the on Saltspring

Unknown Speaker 3:13
Well, I'm a logger operator. Okay, it wasn't a formatter at all. I own the day, but those were normal businesses and 29.

Unknown Speaker 3:22
Yeah, so you came over what equipment did you bring over to the island according

Unknown Speaker 3:25
Well, I bought two donkeys to yardian machines and three trucks.

Unknown Speaker 3:34
And you owned all that yourself?

Unknown Speaker 3:35
Yeah, yeah. Well, what was between me and the finance cover?

Unknown Speaker 3:40
Why did you why did you work by yourself for yourself as an operator? Why didn't you work for one of the big companies?

Unknown Speaker 3:51
Well you know, some people like to be their own boss. And some people don't like responsibility that I was brought up. You see, my father was robbed or they went back to the days when he was the oxygens you when I was born them or yard in your yard and filing for that Empress Hotel when they're telling that James Bay or the bay in the Raven piles? Well, he's almost they were kicking those piles up for that job. But they went on his he and he got started in logging. Well, I started falling in 1920 in my father, my uncle scamp. And then we're then he said worked there for robots. And then eventually, I took over the law firm in 1829. I took over the deals that I run the show. Yeah, quite successfully. But things have changed so much. She sat down she was like I showed you there that there's anything here to eat. You get four gallons of gas for $1. And those figures just come out of that diary.

Unknown Speaker 4:51
Okay. So what did you work all year on assaults? No.

Unknown Speaker 4:56
What times do you what do you

Unknown Speaker 4:58
generate from March to work to up from about March to November depending on the weather it's the work that I see working on my boots and the some years you get snow up there and November you get snow easy then you couldn't couldn't blog we didn't log in there's no and I never logged in so because of all scattered you men getting hurt dangerous work, so I never logged in so that so that we can go to work. Safety thing is one thing.

Unknown Speaker 5:30
Yeah, with logging a lot more dangerous, more dangerous in those days when you first thing in the morning. Is it safer now?

Unknown Speaker 5:39
Well, this, you know, there's not a compensation regulation that I don't I don't think it's any saver

Unknown Speaker 5:49
is no small. That's what I heard. What Randy has said, there's no small line that

Unknown Speaker 5:58
well, that's actually that. So why is that men heard the red in the killing, but they do get hurt. You know, they get the Carter. Well, one of the men was working at one time and I told him about it. I told him to watch it. But he didn't listen, the the agafay where they get to, it records that Reagan back in his 2000 feet a minute. So these things are moving. You see they're moving fast. And I told him to keep clear of them. He showed me swinging back and forth. And one of them hit him. Hit him on the back. Well, he's alright now while Listen, at that time was Robin in 40. But it kind of hurt you back pretty badly. But he's told me this dangerous be any of those things. It's like a pullback, running over a lot in the run to be beaten the bike that got run over a lot. And if you're looking at drying, we'll be running it over just going fast, because I was three minutes. Consequently, cut them off, and you're standing in the bike. And you tell them that but they knew how the human being is they won't listen to other people they probably didn't know at all. They get a whack with a lion or suddenly he flies out of the bush.

Unknown Speaker 7:09
Now just be aware of that possibility.

Unknown Speaker 7:12
Well, you wouldn't live very long if you weren't careful. Whatever you did, like driving cars in the hill, you drive an automobile, you got to be careful, you got to watch.

Unknown Speaker 7:23
So so this ultimately is a good place for you to work. If you did well here. Did you expand your operation over the years? Or did you

Unknown Speaker 7:33
kept about the same I was right. In fact, when I came here, I only planned on being here for two years. I was going to just love timber and I hadn't been gold leaves before I move on. But then the other timber turned up and he found more timber you see the funny thing you know in the in that in that period from 1940 to 1950. There was they figured that you see there was no timber on the island people were amazed to see December on how to do any laundry. While in the 50s. There was there was 27 loggers on this island, believe it or not. Yeah, it's hard to believe. Yeah. Well, I don't name off the robbers, but I don't know. I don't have I don't. Offhand would be able to give you a list. You know whether to thank you.

Unknown Speaker 8:21
Okay, I have done my homework.

Unknown Speaker 8:25
So what was your what was the timber do you use raises?

Unknown Speaker 8:27
So were you allowed in a smaller type of timber, like a smaller size to know

Unknown Speaker 8:32
this timber that we were loving on the bow? Bruce there when I came there was virgin timber. And some of us six, seven feet, some of them as a preset for seven feet, they're big logs. I put one go in there, I think it was had something like 80% Number one and number two, that is when the logs under 18 inches taken out. But these are 18 inches and over. And you know, there's something like 500,000 Vegan those tied up in the day, you know, matter of fact, they had 750,000 died up there, it wouldn't have recorded the video feed their people wouldn't believe but some of these dogs are pretty big long. You see the six foot you know a lot of six week blocks.

Unknown Speaker 9:14
But I'm gonna backtrack a minute because I wasn't I'm not like clear about the seasons that you worked.

Unknown Speaker 9:20
It would you you'd work

Unknown Speaker 9:23
from March to November okay. And then we moved away to near what is the first year 1942 1941 Rather, we will as soon as November come which was to ensure that there to remove part of the equipment back to the island and then we logged over there. We took one of the bounces back we do that for the year we took one back and then I logged in and after dally I had I had three mins up timber down there when I was finishing that up in the winter throughout the winter.

Unknown Speaker 9:52
Yeah, so you might move from an area that which we get more snow or be wet to a dryer

Unknown Speaker 10:00
Well, sorry, is he happy valley? Happy Valley? I should know. But Blackbird. Yeah, the chosen Valley. It's it's Nirav. Luxton. That's where First off, there was a lot of logging on back, we're way back on the island here, then we went back here and love that winter. Then we came back in the spring again this evening and started marching through the weather got, well, that was a very bad road on that mountain, we spent 1000s and 1000s of dollars on that road. And eventually, we had all kinds of trouble with bad weather. So we that's one of the reasons to hold this up. Laurie was all in the snow. But the room was so bad when the blog got a lot of rain, she was over that road, reached over to her hand. And they just put logs in and throw dirt over when we get heavy logging drops, which push it down all of that mean, we get stuck in the room was very good was meant for heavy drugs.

Unknown Speaker 11:08
So over the years, did you get new equipment? Like did you get up I wish to get me down to use now I've

Unknown Speaker 11:15
never saved up he came to the ship there. No, I don't want one of them. But I shouldn't have one of them sitting there. All right, done that should have taken up the last three, three or four. No, this island just sitting there was over the punch line and, and the tall, tall sit there sit up and she is sitting there. Right now you could see that if you want to look at it. But is there a lot of people who have never seen this in their life probably. And then those trucks that are in the barn, those trucks are the ones that are brought to you. So you are 141 and the other one I bought in 42 actually didn't bring to that to those two, one of them, they bought 1942 The others abroad. And then before anyway,

Unknown Speaker 12:00
they stopped working. I mean, when you just stopped using them

Unknown Speaker 12:03
for work 1969. So I mean, these trucks are in fine condition, you know, there's a good reason restored, they go back to gold or short cracks, you know, they log into the trucks and that vintage, the they're pretty scarce, you don't have the cheese blocks, and all these types of things. And a lot of people know that I've never seen a cheese block, they are the bunks and rocks and all these types of things, and the type of equipment that they use.

Unknown Speaker 12:29
So I'm trying to I'm trying to get a feel for like that. Actually, once you bought your initial equipment, a small operating IQ, and independent logger would be financially okay that you wouldn't have to be putting out a whole, much more money all the time for the equipment. But you must have spent quite a bit of capital, building roads into areas that that sort of stuff.

Unknown Speaker 12:53
Actually, that is quite a costly thing that we used to. Well, the logging was nice to see this, there's so much to this topic, so much for road building so much follow the numbers, so much everything so much howling and so much cooling, all these figures were figured out well, that's what you do in your business, you figure those all out. And if you make a mistake in another thing, you'll probably end up and you'll lose money. So you have to watch to get every page you must, you will be stuck when you buy your timber. You must know what you're doing. You're not paying too much for your timber. And you're not just gonna cost too much for road too much reality and too much, right? All these types of things. And if you don't figure that close sequence you broke that's why it's from a document broke. But I was able to figure that all out. In a matter of fact, I I guess I'm pretty well up from Dollar contents. No wonder donors. GRE Yes. All right. Because I know what it used to work for two movies to work $2 a day. And when these men came here they were paying them $3 and a half a day. People said it must have been three and a half an hour $3 and a half and eight and that's what you're taking the bait the better we're getting $13.60 6000 For our logs you ever hear that? Was at all you couldn't not going to be done? How could that how could manage that keep the families on $3 and a half a day. Some of the men work most of the men now are gone. They're gone. You know that? But there's some of them sit around. We develop

Unknown Speaker 14:29
that work for you. With a lot of men, single men, widows, the types that would move around

Unknown Speaker 14:36
well know some of them are married but you don't want to go into detail. So there's a man that was what happened to some men they come here and they find a nice looking girl you should be in case I lose lose lose a truck driver. Okay, guys and girls come around and then you're done. Oh, man.

Unknown Speaker 15:02
Question within group of 10. Man, you're the operator. What other men types of positions? Or were there? Like, like different jobs with men have specific titles?

Unknown Speaker 15:14
Or would they all? No, no, no that you have truck driver, the donkey punching book tender. And of course the rigored oak tankard and high regular tender, he, they rigged the street, I rigged it up tender, and then a whistle run and give singles The to explain that you'd have to see what was done. There's a colder signal code for you know, for the for the, for these high lead machines, all types of machines have a single code and they these wesselman They they they make this this code where there's one two or three here that is we want to stop and to repeat, come back come back easy and to head head easiest three threes for that type of high lead this particular type of blogging now they have the arc bend at all either he was different signals that are tied to signal does that put the where three head three head and to the haulback got to come back. And then there's two back stores to repeated. And the head this head was three

Unknown Speaker 16:28
3d So that was one guy was in charge of doing that.

Unknown Speaker 16:33
But then they changed they didn't change job that much a truck driver drove a truck and then I you gentlemen i did i put a hiring manager driving the truck. Right right. Let's sell for sometimes Well, Matt wasn't there I go to sometimes the goal was to take the take a truck driving away yeah, notion that I'd have to drive for a month.

Unknown Speaker 16:53
So within this group, were there who was the big cheese? You were the big cheese but who is doing what was the sort

Unknown Speaker 16:59
of high was a sort of a hierarchy? Like was that that high rigor of sort of more a more prestigious or prestigious job or?

Unknown Speaker 17:06
Well, in my operation? I've always been not much of a boss. I don't you know, I've never believed in pushing people around, I would never do with a woman I will never tell them like I never boss my life around. No, but he was men, they don't boss them around you see, well you do this to do that. But what you have when you're running an operation, you have to plan out what you're going to do. So you if you want to do to change the men around you want take them off and put them on something else to see. They didn't just go and tell him to do this or telling you that rather than Kevin bossing people around a bossy person but then there has to be a leader and operator he's you know, he's got to eat balance everything out. And things are going to be actually done his way. But never learned that after day two, and then a better men come up with better ideas and use their ideas. You can learn a lot you can learn a lot from other people's ideas. You can listen with the W so these men are actually the position they had up there was there was the truck driver donkey puncher high rigor hook tender. It was all on boo man and then the followers you see the really detailed with Imbert

Unknown Speaker 18:33
okay, what can you could you maybe you've described what the whistling does and I know what the truck driver does? What about the dances?

Unknown Speaker 18:41
You guys did off the yard your yard doing machine? What was the timber right yeah, the donkey is not an animal you know like one of these English ladies whenever else was working fine we said when they already beat the old on you pretty hard today. And she said those that got the terrible you the sick the beat that was think but don't use it as a yarding machine.

Unknown Speaker 19:06
When you started Was there anyone doing horse? A horse logging still on Saltzman 41

Unknown Speaker 19:12
I think that Cyril Beatrice harsh love you sir. Okay. Oh, he wants because zero but he had two or three teams in our shoes. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure if he was the Cheryl was he was arguing with horses that day.

Unknown Speaker 19:27
Yeah. And you're using these power saws, portable power

Unknown Speaker 19:31
saws, where we use both when we come near the power saw is one of the power saws is still here. It's one of the early power saws and I model Am I still have it? No 1940 I guess. Yeah. So this is sort of that time

Unknown Speaker 19:46
when you came here and it it was sort of at the stage when the tracks were being used more and more and when there's new technology, basically.

Unknown Speaker 19:56
Particularly in trucks, trucks whether way back I started hauling I'm 1925 That's what I started on but they were hauling logs before that time when truck the trucks were on but that's when I first day but we had our own truck and I started driving that truck in March 1925

Unknown Speaker 20:15
And what about power saws?

Unknown Speaker 20:16
Well there are no powers I never heard that before what's the power what's the power side? I didn't know what it was he's just been any more of this English would know what a donkey was he got a doc with the animal and a lot of lying burning gas instead of Hey,

Unknown Speaker 20:31
okay, um, how about marketing marketing YouTuber. Who did you sell your temperature?

Unknown Speaker 20:37
Well at that time I showed it Good morning to the Victoria and Lebanon goddess and in those days in the later days as well these firms are long ago the man that everybody just forgot us has gotten Mister Mister more Moore is gone. He and Mr. Whittington God, these people are all God but those bills are gone too. You don't want middles but I used to sell to those mills when they bid and then they used to sell themselves to mill and describe off to Franco for the company. They had about me at the time this moment on the side and do that. That for us all the logs and then I start shoving you broker sometimes it's over sometimes that zelalem is out of H Barnett and company they were loved brokers and they had builds here and they used to buy them were these law they were in Vancouver. Yeah, they talked to someone to Vancouver. They logged in more ready to go and live in Dallas and we're in Victoria. Yeah it's quite a story today some logs go they won't try to swipe the other Tell me about that

Unknown Speaker 21:55
I don't know that that tape you're not well, what did you riches to start with the Moses more more Wiggins and I told Victoria, the Mr. Moore and Whittington originally they started this mill while they were carpenters start with them. They started the mill. This is way back shortly after the turn of the century. And then they my father showed the log to see and then I sold a lot. But then the young Philo Stanmore, he was a pretty shrewd customer he tried all kinds of tricks are late for his fertility for Trixie TGV, you know and but his father was a very very Mr we were living in Mr. and Mr. Bore billboard they were really fine fall as well. So Stan was pretty busy, she tried to get to just try to get the better. Good.

Unknown Speaker 22:53
So part of being an operator was you had to deal with that. And and soundwaters sort of play with you know, be a businessman in that sense.

Unknown Speaker 23:01
We actually were operating a small office it's a whole cheese eat, you buy your supplies, you apply your machineries, you make the you make arrangements for financing and you sell your dogs right you did that time most rather good Donovan good shoulder don't log see whether you get the best price for them and and they watched so you financing was one of the things too is you know, it's for small overlap very financing is a very, very important thing.

Unknown Speaker 23:37
Yeah, I Well, you know, one bad year, I guess one bad year you got yours and you could be under debt.

Unknown Speaker 23:42
But I dealt with the bank of Nova Scotia senior. I am and the main branch in Nova Scotia in Victoria and the longest, longest individual depositor in that bank because I mean bank of Nova Scotia, and I've seen a lot of managers go down and then of course they come to my house, you know, and have dinner or something that's been greater your original bank manager, they were pretty tough to get $1 out of.

Unknown Speaker 24:10
Yeah, so you had to pretty happy to sort of wangle your financing for your

Unknown Speaker 24:14
so Mr. Heinz visited the Bank of Nova Scotia that bad that not no one in that bank. It was there when I first when I first opened my account there none of them nobody means that the person needs another manager going out of school.

Unknown Speaker 24:37
Wow. What Okay, why don't you tell me about a typical day in a typical day's work? What time do you start and when you have lunch and what do you do?

Unknown Speaker 24:46
Well, right your day we started to wear ng most T worked eight hours. BT hours a day. And we start at eight o'clock before if we got the 10 date there wouldn't be sat around waiting. We got to get your clock there. wouldn't work and if it to 430 is a total flop which is irregular our everybody that most people do this they that they have the lecture 12 o'clock finish rolls off, they have lunch, and then at 430 He's He's equipped Well now that's the end of the day. Well now if a truck was coming back late or something like that kind of thing those days the man just didn't say well Good bye I'll see you tomorrow the HD Nicolet truck was loaded and they you know they I'm not saying that what you did is fine men around today too, but those men were you know, they those are the kinds of men and made money for you for me to pay anyway because that's probably me. logging operation when I came it probably made $10 a day for myself you know $500 For the logs in and along along the $13 1013 52 first time went on the log went up you see the river waters on that they went up from they went up to $17 and then they went all out but that was a $250

Unknown Speaker 26:10
time to be logged in. Wasn't that the war like Second World War Those years were working on Saltspring pornography.

Unknown Speaker 26:17
Well, it was actually it was good for everybody who's been at war fighting again. But the when it started that War II ended the depression a hit her ended his erection that's what happened. Yeah, some of the loggers said well there's a sitting there that would never take it out. But Hitler made that possible. Because it made the logs demand go up. We see Yeah, and then men were pretty hard to come by. Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. We never hired any women like today's is an awful lot of women used for the jobs they drive trucks and the gore trucks and the mass of the 200 done or carriers movements should have been there a little bit squirts no bigger than union hidden in a giant be moss to things and they drive these big timbers became the equipment and they can handle it.

Unknown Speaker 27:09
So you didn't hire any women?

Unknown Speaker 27:10
No women no or difficult quote would have been here but another way so they didn't have to hire a cook. So prior to that,

Unknown Speaker 27:20
working on Saltspring Do you think lobby? I thought you told me about a forum?

Unknown Speaker 27:25
No. Oh well. Yeah, Mrs. Charles mother used to work at GE denied it but she was out there do any job I gotta go she actually read the machinery or not but I think she worked in the bill. These are these are things or I'm not sure about? Charlie would tell you if you're talking to Charlie, you know, you'll get the details out of it. Yeah. But I don't know because I never actually saw our driving truck going to her you say I asked her but she did it did something she drove truck all right.

Unknown Speaker 28:02
Okay, so the war was good.

Unknown Speaker 28:03
Wasn't very good. Bad. damn bad for the economy. Alright. Yeah. Fresh pick

Unknown Speaker 28:11
for your bank account. But what about after the war was was the 1950s a slower period?

Unknown Speaker 28:17
No, no, these were pretty good in the 60s to the 70s it was probably the most

Unknown Speaker 28:31
it was the I suppose was the finest there as the Nisha, does that thing struggle? Yes. Still going? Oh, because I I'm kind of thinking the words. See for that. Well, that's the greatest expansion, I suppose in this. This country are pretty good. BC was between the 60 between the 60s and 70s for an investment and everything else.

Unknown Speaker 28:57
Is the sun getting in your eyes? Would you like me to shift back? Okay. Yeah, we should you should probably be speaking as much as you can. Sort of in that direction. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 29:07
I hope that helps in just coming out. Okay. Well, let's switch it off for a minute and take a break.

Unknown Speaker 29:20
Well, long as we know, that is wrong, you know, the things that you that you want to know. Yeah. Because I didn't want to talk for a month well, because over the experience of men where they know what happened to the man and how we logged in all the details, you know, I remember a lot of things. Maybe we

Unknown Speaker 29:36
could talk about okay, what should have you told me a little bit about what it was like to be an operator in the small you know, small small operators. What I wonder what it was like to work for a smaller operator compared to Mac blow. Like as, like, what how did the guys like working in this in a smaller operation?

Unknown Speaker 30:01
But some fellas is he? Well, actually working for a big big outfit to you most of the jobs that you have to do there you have a you do a specific type of the job in small operation knows men they would do everything on the job, you know, boom, they'll fall timber, they'll drive traffic drive donkey, the men that I've had here like myself we do well do every type of job. We've repaired tires, repair trucks, repair equipment, displaced lines, we do all kinds of things. One don't person don't do it. Another way to do it, all the jack of all trades, when you get in a big outfit, you drive truck, and that's all they won't let you these increases are gonna put a wrench near because each of those specific is a specific job you drive a yard and that's it. They don't have you going out falling trees and followers or followers and that's they go hire older, smaller. Well, do you think

Unknown Speaker 30:49
do you think some men would prefer to the flexibility that will be in your operation or would prefer to know what the job is going to be to just be a trucker?

Unknown Speaker 30:58
Well, there are a lot of somebody I don't know about, but there are there are a lot of people, they like changing jobs. You see, it's more interesting when they go from one thing to another change to be the nail in the nose. The person that they hit in the Texas

Unknown Speaker 31:18
okay, you're talking you're talking about you're having a working game or the change is important.

Unknown Speaker 31:28
Well, actually, you don't break you get away from the you're getting you're getting away from being bored. You see. That's the fundamentals not from them like that. They don't want to be doing one job. Conveniently I've been that like you I don't like to stay one job or move grad school I That's it, chalkboard countries, or whatever I do. That's the type of thing that I don't really think that people well, there are a lot of people like that, ya know, women are the same we do get girl Laurie, you know, the hit wash those old dishes for 365 days a year. That's what happened to Washington.

Unknown Speaker 32:16
Okay. So that would be maybe one motivation behind the guy coming to work for you.

Unknown Speaker 32:27
Like, I mean, as a big company.

Unknown Speaker 32:32
But when you get into unions at one time, I think it was a different different TV uese. They all we probably paid more, I probably paid more than union. See more than you. But then when you start to talk about you start learning all these benefits. Yes, he there is a big thing in later days. Today, half of the half of the money that are cost to hire a man today and the union is benefits. You get your unemployment insurance and your union use and

Unknown Speaker 33:09
what would happen is if a guy was screwed on the job to get workman's compensation because we didn't help or would you hire him back when he was dead? Or something like

Unknown Speaker 33:18
that? Well, what happens in that case? You see your you have your Richmond board? Yeah, I've been in direct you that board for all properties. Throughout since they've been so late in 20 days been rich with the composition modern sewerage with the Compensation Board. But anyway, they, they you you have to pay your assessed you pay whatever this has to be what percent 2345 or 10. What varies, you know, 8% or 12%, it was 14. I don't know just what it is right now. We don't do the books. But the rates have gone up and up and up and up busy. Cross the reason for that being one time you could stay in hospital for $3 a day, a lot of times 203 $400 a day. More than that maybe

Unknown Speaker 34:06
I'm sort of wondering if maybe a difference in in from a small operation to a big company, we'd be maybe a bit a bit more humane. If someone was hurt, it wouldn't be like, Did you did you feel sort of material was designed to work for you or did with with the camera become sort of like did you sort of feel that you sort of took care of them or had some sort of obligation or was it more than cutting down?

Unknown Speaker 34:34
Well, no first, when you running an operation, you have to believe you're responsible for the safety or you're living you have to watch that break. If you get too many accidents, but just to hear a compensation inspector and he'll preview the unsafe group. Don't think Brackney just close the operation down. See they don't go there. pretty strict Compensation Board but that must basically mostly it I don't suppose anyone or there are not very many people that want to see another person injured. Yeah. Oh, there are people that they don't mind these people that they get these criminals they don't mind they kill people and they do all kinds of things is he did he take these girls and not from the boat knock him on the edge and throwing them in the in the river? Yeah. But with men he or she you're you're more than the average human being is going to be more concerned about his vote his fellow man. He's not going to do things to injury me you will do that. Yeah. I'm just wondering purposely these are accidents that happen in the woods. And of course there's some feathers people are actually improved. We've had them for a period and talking about that one first and he was always getting hurt if he got an RSR syndrome often, if he went in trimming he'd probably get burnt in the ground you know, he was always getting into the long road I mean it was working for me because this was prior to like keeping his eyelid but it all was after but it was just some way he gave me these characters he never watch himself I guess some of you will be that way and other people are pretty careful. Why

Unknown Speaker 36:24
would you hire me? What would you make? How would you find someone to work where they approach

Unknown Speaker 36:31
you? Or would you go out well sometimes a lot of times you know they approach the operator or your property here to run a man not working area needed Him and you know you if those days jobs are hard to come by and this is one of the reasons why some of those fellows you just didn't get it going to a job it'd be really big lager operations you know or billing operation just couldn't walk in there and get job like nothing the credit unions they hired to the Union halls I suppose of all within that. But it was also an agency suit do that I didn't hire you the last fall out belonging operator reuse you know, a friend is somebody else's out of a job but not working at all. You know, he's your friend. Does that work? Do you try to find work? You mean your job so he has a beat for $3 and a half a day? You're not very much did you

Unknown Speaker 37:27
even have sons of friends? Like would you you know like yeah, you know pick on someone's kids because in John's

Unknown Speaker 37:36
period we're talking about these young men we're talking about the sons were just babies for my family, which brought me to book period, Dr. Abbott has ever seen that

Unknown Speaker 37:50
Well, I wonder if you if you could tell me about if you made like, like for some of the guys that you worked with in any period that we're talking about 19 through the internet? Are they still are not important? Are they still friends with you? Or did they did you form long term friendships with men that you work with?

Unknown Speaker 38:07
Well, there would be but then as I say that right please record a long time you know a lot better emotional than Enron.

Unknown Speaker 38:15
Yeah, well, you did you make long term friendships are where you guys sort of did you walk around with the guided notes or after work and that sort of stuff? Or would it just be more of just on the work

Unknown Speaker 38:29
well, you know, sometimes you probably know they were you when you wrapper here this is you know, you're not just working 80 hours a day. Yeah. You got a you probably you're working on problems 14 hours a day you got time to be you're doing all things doing time it's like throw a wrench in yet now what has happened to it that diary there. She that you write that down during the day if they can over that you get times to bake up in various things. Question Type in here, I had a I had a head of oak and accountant or bookkeeper. And they made the checks and did all the figuring that's the survey prior to that you say do I use a bookmark myself? Like he got in the whole thing. I do. Timekeeping and making the payment to payroll and all this, you see. So here we're talking about you will use a book to bookkeeper, you know, he was the bookkeeper. You probably heard him. What's your James Grace heard? slid off the mountain up there. My boots right over the cliff. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 39:35
maybe that's why his name's pretty young.

Unknown Speaker 39:37
When he went down 500 feet. He needs to find it. Or they don't want to happen. Oh, this was back in. Probably 60s. I don't just remember when it was good. So he was your he was a bookie on that box right there. His office was taken over by Mrs. Brewer. She received for she's gone now and she took it she didn't go to the bar different bookkeepers who allow Mr. sacker bookkeeper.

Unknown Speaker 40:08
Oh I know I know that your daughters are very good friend of mine my sister actually oh this is eat it eat it yeah yeah, I know the transparency anyways what have we talked about

Unknown Speaker 40:43
musta covered most of this in this particular thing here this particular

Unknown Speaker 40:52
there's nothing hard okay, how do you get to right like I'm still not like some of the lands you bought? When did you buy that land? And so you love the land that you own? And sometimes you get timber you purchase timber rights to land

Unknown Speaker 41:07
well various ways sometimes they're in government or Crown land you see they will be put up for a timber sale and you would bid on them or this is generally the way that that it was got some some crown lands and then of course from private private lands and you go to the you know evil to the to the person that owns the timber he is he adopted them or they would come to you and then you would make arrangements Do you know how much you want to pay for the timber and you buy the timber leaves you covered? A lot of the timber that I bought so I pay cash for it in later years but I think cash for the timber but it's not as Blue Rock timber bought but like on the stuffy crowd can brew be bothered with Pete You don't pay cash you have to pay put up deposits security deposits and then you have to be you pay the government log scale there's a larger scale when they go in the water

Unknown Speaker 42:04
what how often did you pay

Unknown Speaker 42:08
every two weeks and it's pretty nerve and the bank was very good that way they're wrong was quite ready let me have the rally. Oh, that's nice. Well I've dealt for a long time you see

Unknown Speaker 42:22
you have to wait till till the timber was sold before you got your money right

Unknown Speaker 42:27
so yeah, that's right we didn't yet that's a Jimmy wasn't financed by the by the millions that bought the timber know why I didn't own financing the bank etc Yeah. And then of course as time goes on you people get to know the banks get to know you then they'll you know they look like I have no limit on my job by my borrowing power the bank manager said there's no limit on the amount of money that you can borrow from this bank y'all do you want this you want money in later years? She wants to start with I had to take my hat off say good morning was to gamble I need some money pretty badly so he said wow he said you don't want to be on pocket he said he said your assets not very liquid early I said well, they were I wouldn't be coming to this bank. So you should say and he's probably away right from him put his bank but in later years I never I just didn't have the demand note to sell them out. They don't like overdraft my bank didn't like over so I put the money make don't just send it to the band or heading to the bank. Yeah, but then they never question as soon as I put the demand note in there and I've only had two checks returned in my life not the 1000s of text molecules returned in my life and those versus a few that had a new account in there and there was I guess there was no money in the account so he he sent the checks back of course these the banners you then wrote some Greek letters of apology to the people that the turn to check back on is he sending them back anyway they did checks but the only time that ever checks turned back but I wasn't very pleased with that guy there I went back and told the manager but he said well let's count we didn't know you. He just looked nisab there's no money in the count. So you said Jay you know your credit was good here a new man let's get back

Unknown Speaker 44:27
let's get back to work it Okay. Why don't we talk about different areas that different areas that you lon he lives around like Mount bass and then down the other side of the harbor. And then do you love them next? No,

Unknown Speaker 44:43
no at all. No. No. Did you love Muslims? No. Well, I guess the most of the logs were taken millions I think the logs they kick off this Fulford area put in this Fulford area here is he I started And I bought this here strip of timber that was contingent to begin with. And then when that was love that I bought some more timber off the adjoining timber off there from the man that ran that mill that can be had, they had 1000 acres or something that I bought timber off him and love that

Unknown Speaker 45:30
oh, that Cindy's still in the 40s 40s 47 maybe 48 About that time, because we were full prior to 1949 and I bought this timber for McAfee Everlast clogs and that off his property. Then I brought logs off Davis loves books at all many pages all over Jackson Davis. And these people that had timbers he was one block over here that I bought timber, I could cut what I wanted the range of I had there to cut the timber what I wanted, and what I wanted, and what timber I wanted to cut no problems while that man was there. You go ahead and pay me what you think I needed to talk about honesty is a big thing. Is it better to have a person say, Well, you've addressed that personally, would you review it with your wallet? The Union saying that? It might not be very honest. I've taught my Tapani that's honestly because of the personal honesty is a big thing. If you're going to be honest, it goes through your life you say to the person who's honest you can trust Him that He wants you to take anything

Unknown Speaker 46:44
and in a small community get a reputation as being good or

Unknown Speaker 46:48
even a big computer at all. No No there's be it honest. See, somebody were their words are just as good as written down on paper. Although we did get some but that's why we have lawyers to go Yeah. You know, people, they tried to do other people and try to get out of the paper. You have typed in agreements as bold suppose and then they get in there and look at these agreements to see if they provide loopholes or when they get the better the other person.

Unknown Speaker 47:13
Well, why don't you tell me what we can offer to them. This guy had to know that

Unknown Speaker 47:18
Bill McAfee McAfee lumber company he run that started

Unknown Speaker 47:25
that was moved back here when you came here.

Unknown Speaker 47:26
Pursue what I came here. I think they started that middle. I think he set up that mill originally set the bill up on learmount Bruce there lot near that. Roseburg is late, it wasn't far from there. He had the original, I think, where he had that hill. But prior to that he worked for ser he was a soccer for singer and singer to Bill hotel every night in 2627. They had seven meals a year, seven meals on that. And he was one of the signers there. What he did when the bills went away, he didn't he didn't. He didn't go with him. So then he set up his own meal where he started to form the form of lumber company, but timber set up the bill. And then he moved it down to the table and he bought this piece

Unknown Speaker 48:12
of it build assets.

Unknown Speaker 48:13
Yeah, most of the older ones he built that oh, oh, oh really. He built that house back to the factory. And he had to build below it to see if Mr. Napier was his bookkeeper. But he kept frogs there. And then we put in a while we put a lot of logs, we've not put it over a million feet into that metal who because I also worked in the mill. Oh, during the war there was hard to get men so the crew what they did, it takes that time you guys you get three or four men together, we worked with a male we go with a sire and logging operator wherever they go is the middle operator and solace logging out ready to go and follow a bunch of trees down and then they get in there and one would be dragging it out and you want to help them and then they get a bunch of logs out you see. And they when they get the logs we get the logs out. And to get them down to the middle of when we got enough logs in the middle they would all go down for five minutes to go down there we we put these these logs up and mostly that time during being a lot of cut ties. And then we take the trucks and all in Victoria. So I actually worked from the stump right to the ship side with the finished product. Times Well export days by but then the precincts they were they were shipped to go to export those type of days most that was the order for Tyson that the longer that time they were shipped to Africa and that that particular sizes I five by 10 five inches by 10 inches, and they were each was six in length that then they went to England that was a standard for their cracks I guess is the rails or they have a standard rail gauge on the tracks and they have that they're equal. But our standard here like The CPR was eight foot and they use six beats and six per six and six beats their size, but export was suddenly fiber dead. What?

Unknown Speaker 50:11
How long did you know how long was an operation?

Unknown Speaker 50:16
It must have been running every 15 years. And so of course, he sold us out to some of the firm tokens and more smectite rather than $1. And trackball, he sold it to McDonald and Clark and they ran for a while. And then Morris McTighe took it over there had been had been three or four different drop Raiders run that mill from eventually the I guess they went broke. I don't know what happened. Yeah. I don't know. I don't remember that. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 50:45
That's okay. It's not no. Okay. So you would sell some of your timber to the mill down here. And some of it would go right in? And some of it you would you wouldn't wangle

Unknown Speaker 51:00
or you would work it to a log broker. No, no, no.

Unknown Speaker 51:05
The timber that was cut on this, the McAfee or McAfee told me this is corporate sawmill. It was they had this tractor timber. And that was part of the agreement. You see, that timber was sold to me. And I was just supply that mill was was logs, specified types of logs. And for these type of locks in different lengths, 2630 fours and 4243 and the size and the balance the logs weighed into the water. And if the mill couldn't narrow them, if I was putting out too many logs, you see even these tide coming in August to the middle of the cut. Well, then they went into the water, but they always had this agreement we had they had the they had the first refusal of the logs, even the booms are wet in the water, you see that they want to take the booms they could buy the boom. But generally the small mill didn't buy boom was a lot of money came after the bill. You know. They didn't bother them so they just had the logs delivered to the mail apart.

Unknown Speaker 52:12
What other cases did you why did they not that?

Unknown Speaker 52:14
Well, there was only one place actually really dumped as it does in forward in. She that logs been laid dumping on him before the turn of the century. Early days he

Unknown Speaker 52:29
sat on that side of the heart

Unknown Speaker 52:32
although one of the main log dump was right in front of the whole route in just a little bit to that side. And then there wasn't as far as government government park you will park for that. But then there was also the slug dumps all over there was a log dump at the middle there too. A lot of people dumped logs in there how many different people logged over that No, I ever got logs and Burgoyne jumps to that time there were a lot of them fair. They will leave you usually put dumps in there prior to when I came here the dumps there but they weren't public dumps they were dumps that, you know people yard logs into the bush we use horses. Of course the many methods are logging on the time and we're back a long time

Unknown Speaker 53:23
you log down towards the exit point at all. Can you were down there.

Unknown Speaker 53:27
Oh, I love dropping well I didn't actually hold your breath deeper point. Or I had very little I bought some in the beaver Boyd area. One blocker but they're no no. I never loved these cookies. She loves cooking jobs. I love that. No, no. And the piece that I got was, you know was near the white hand. Oh, yeah, that block is there. But I didn't love Reynolds love this George Damron of shirts.

Unknown Speaker 54:00
Yeah, that's that's yeah, that's coffee. He bought half from some spirits property up in Westerville.

Unknown Speaker 54:06
Yeah, but it was good. Both George and Bill Stewart there Bill Stewart has written on the Lake George owned up actually was on this dirt road. Dirt Road named after well. Where

Unknown Speaker 54:19
Yeah, that's what we bought half of their property.

Unknown Speaker 54:21
Oh, yeah. Well repo he logged off he bought the timber got Reynolds Rob. He finished he I guess he finished ragging on No, he didn't die there because originally there was somebody else admin logging on there and then a lot of few years and then Gavin knows he bought it logged off and then other somebody else went in later in the course these trees go fast. You know? It's hard to believe.

Unknown Speaker 54:48
It doesn't seem like to me but I guess you're one of my old forest. You

Unknown Speaker 54:51
see, the trees that I saw a small trees a few years ago and these two that I'm talking about? We were standing there we're loving this area and we Looking at these trees, he always said, well, we'll never live to cut these trees because they're too small. So I think well maybe I'm gonna cut these trees so the trees get bigger and bigger. And pretty soon the trees were two feet and two and a half feet. So I went there one day and I realized we were looking at this bunch of trees we're looking at what and sell them back to management with GAAP pull them other than our big truck pick them up with a $1,950 we get $1,950 Hello loves. When do you when do you buy your tractor lorry driver? Theory Well, he's already have similar zip codes today. Yeah, he's all he hauls. Wow, he you know that trucks hauling all over everywhere. We originally bought the truck we didn't plan on hauling for other people. We planned this haul on our own launch. See. But I talked Garth wanting me to go into into these these these transports, you know, well across the road. They go all around America. They drive everywhere Toronto and Montreal, like where he pays in San Francisco and all these places. And he wanted me to buy a truck and balloon with him is he and I said well, no, I don't want to be driving. I love driving. Alright. And matter of fact, I still have a class three driver's license as commercial license that many people hold commercial licenses. You have to be hard it's got to be good. Your hearings gotta go. You got to see good, you got to be right up. You got to be good, healthy, and they will. They won't give you too much. Not when you get 80 years old, they were not going to give you a I'm not eating because do it they they won't. They don't they don't you don't have a cat or those kinds of licenses. But anyways, he wanted me your grandbabies. You know, he said, you wouldn't have the right to watch that. And that's why I don't want to. I'd like to driving alright, but I don't want to do any more. So and then I talked to me that you're buying a logging truck. So we bought the logging truck, and then we got robbed robber no logs. And when I turned out very, very satisfied, he and I worked together so fine, it's hard to believe

Unknown Speaker 57:03
he's gonna want to hear is a good person to work with. That's what anyway, I wish to get back to the period.

Unknown Speaker 57:12
I think that's pretty valid. It's done pretty well. I

Unknown Speaker 57:15
think it's been really good. I've got a lot of information. What I can do is take this tape, and when I start working on my paper, I'll look at it. And you know if I'm missing anything, is it okay if I come back and talk to you?

Unknown Speaker 57:27
Sure. But you can't you can't cut you can't cut those pieces that depot or do you know no outlet? I'll do that. Just the tape is just as it is. Oh, yeah, I would love for you to know and see what we've been talking about. We can walk up to the trees I'm gonna show you the stumps. I'm sure the machinery is shallow. The chokers at all like eerie. I'm one of those fellas that really wants to buy anything. I buy it. He's not sell deep. People often are well why did you sell this? Why don't you sell that? Why did he tell another truck because he that's 1942 dropped. Okay, I

Unknown Speaker 58:02
gotta ask you one more question. How much do you like logging?

Unknown Speaker 58:06
Well, I hear you're dodging your logger.

Unknown Speaker 58:10
Oh, I yeah, I've been pretty happy with it. Of course my ambition was to be be be a physician. That was a nice study did you know about i takes a lot of education to become a physician but I know I've taken first aid courses in that study. medical books have been right there look at and see it all the different things human body and the bones and everything else. Those hundreds of things that when the German upright kinds of germs and all these kind of that are microscopes I studied all that but then the thing was I didn't have enough education I don't have great school education. But then you've got to be lawyer doctors, those types of things a surgeon you're going to have to have an education we never had the money they did because to get further education. So anyway, instead of being a instead of being a human doctor, physician and surgeon I had to be become a mechanical doctor so that's what I welded I do with the these types of jobs he so I learned welding in repairing cars these all this equipment are out here. Largest same way did he repairs his all liquid we have lots of new

Unknown Speaker 59:18
equipment in this period would you if the truck broke down would you guys fix it yourself?

Unknown Speaker 59:23
All was repaired these equipment is here they know what works. We work on them. Lawrence works on anything related to weld and build up parts and repair parts that

Unknown Speaker 59:33
in the period that we're we're looking at. Would you take care of your equipment and maintenance?

Unknown Speaker 59:38
Well no. Later years from 41 to 42 we all say no from 1940 to 50 that partially they were just below I did was we I was did the repair work because he I was this year mechanical doctor and I used to do the repairs is the but a lot of the repairs but Then sometimes it's it was in his advantage to have somebody else with an affair you know you're pushed you got too much work

Unknown Speaker 1:00:07
who was in that he's somebody who outside of your operation or

Unknown Speaker 1:00:10
oh yeah there we go to the shops that was where we get from Plymouth and Victoria with some do some do some repairs or are they are the national motor but they were the Ford agents before but they took it to the jury and then we had to do it on the island do but they're not to cases where it was a major job like overhauling an engine yes he was I didn't have time to play around with overhauling an engine and then at that time we would with the changing engine reality in our proxy used to change and repair the trucks but in the in the in the logging mostly other equipment donkeys that guy I mean it all I did all repairs. Well, I had met helpers uh, you know, hey, you take this bolt off and put that back on the shaft go there. brake drum rolls here. These type of things.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:05
You like working outside? You like working?

Unknown Speaker 1:01:06
Yes. Why did you think I still work on the one? I thought last year was gonna be my last year. Can you still working? So working? Sure. Qualities yesterday, in yard alongside still of course, they'd be maybe they've extended over the years by the blogger Levy. Oh, why don't you look like a pretty hardy type. I wouldn't be surprised if you're around. surgeon told me I only had six days to live while remaining January. That wasn't sick. But he I didn't know as I was. I got a hernia. The gangrene is hernia. But they got over that right fast. But it was good, healthy. He had been injured. Well, I don't get graded. I don't smoke. I've taken care of myself kind of in a way I think I have. And I'm one of those kinds of people who can relax. My wife said I live forever. Because no matter what happens, you know when I can I can pick the Yugo away from you in five minutes. I'm asleep. I can go to sleep in five minutes. I won't know because he's gonna be there. But the thing was that I can complete