66_Kimiko-Murakami_Alice-Tanaka.mp3

otter.ai

21.01.2023

no

Unknown Speaker 0:01
You came here right up to the First World War.

Unknown Speaker 0:03
Yeah. I come here I went to Japan.

Unknown Speaker 0:09
Where were you born? Steve? A little while ago

Unknown Speaker 0:20
I bought 190 No 490 No four. Oh my goodness people

Unknown Speaker 0:32
know well I've been talking to some of them but I don't I think do you think you're the oldest Now

Unknown Speaker 0:39
basically this mrs. Holman you know she's a manual but she's dealing with that next door she's the same as me but

Unknown Speaker 0:54
that's great like you you're always

Unknown Speaker 0:57
up and down with

Unknown Speaker 1:00
what you've got that nice little cart there to get around. That was great

Unknown Speaker 1:05
you know I don't want to go wrong. I don't need it

Unknown Speaker 1:11
Oh really? Wait you bought golf course.

Unknown Speaker 1:19
Oh, I see that back there. So you came here you came back in ninth you went to Japan to go to school?

Unknown Speaker 1:27
And that's about 8090 miles what right now

Unknown Speaker 1:35
and you came to Salt Springs? No,

Unknown Speaker 1:37
I prefer to grab my fish patient No. Send them by you. They got a great before but so they sold and we bought them where was it? I'm sure enough nice big bass.

Unknown Speaker 2:12
How much land did you have?

Unknown Speaker 2:15
My father had that 200 acres 200 acres down now. No doubt on this first year we bought a 50 acres and he have another 50 up the rainbow and the web version 10 But he has 100 acres really smelly wish there was government to be using we never had a fire since I had 70 Naked nice land and my husband took about a 10 year to clean up you see that? No boo there was nothing just pick and shovel you know the hard work and we clean up we put on this really happy three acres strawberry all kind of bass really ready to pick so government did my husband way? My to Oregon March 241 Yeah. So team and did they send them to Jasper wherever they are? Or?

Unknown Speaker 3:23
Where did did you go with him?

Unknown Speaker 3:24
No, no. We can go with so I have bought the two 3000 Chicken maybe 5005 Kids Yeah, Japanese said about the five people from Teesside since

Unknown Speaker 3:47
he was a Japanese citizen. He was a couple my husband husband was so what happened to you and the children in the farm?

Unknown Speaker 3:56
Oh, behind and let me see how many. Oh, April. That you mean by April April 21 or something I can remember. Then we have to move. So we sold chicken and my ass but it was so much to coming. And I saw her daughter comes to my daughter she she knows. Hi

Unknown Speaker 4:32
tell them how they're built. It was built mother. Well, it's been 50 years right? They had anniversary basically. And we were talking about it and at that time 50 years ago. Gavin mod had come around to all of our the Japanese community and said he would like us out Want to donate to the building fund? Because we had a lot of children going to school. I didn't like that after words, but that's what he said. So at that time my father gave $75 There was a lot of money,

Unknown Speaker 5:22
what year, two years ago, two years from now, elementary

Unknown Speaker 5:26
school was going to be built. Right. And a lot of other Japanese in this community gave to that fun, but there were many people who couldn't afford monetary fun to donate. So they gave a labor of one week labor working on you see, but I'm sure that the New York people on this island don't know how much the Japanese community gave to the school and they fought for us fire they gave to the community.

Unknown Speaker 6:05
Okay, how big was the Japanese community? How many families?

Unknown Speaker 6:21
spoke about eight families. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 6:23
but you got to call those batch

Unknown Speaker 6:25
numbers too. Oh, then the altogether? 11 either.

Unknown Speaker 6:32
There were a lot of Japanese people who helped to clear the land on this island originally.

Unknown Speaker 6:39
Yes, my mother would tell you those things. But I thought I'd like to bring to bring that up. You know, they had Oregon fund and they gave the Oregon to St. George's Church Alene, and all these different things. And I was quite happy because when the 50th anniversary came, and there was no mention of how much the Japanese community gave to that school. And then I've come across a lot of racism from some of these families, you know, they making racial remarks, whatever, making it hard on Richard. Yeah, and I wanted to tell them hey, if you don't like the Japanese don't send your kids to that school because because they held there's a lot of nails pounded in there that the Japanese found it in.

Unknown Speaker 7:37
Well, you know, that would be such an interesting thing. It's such an interesting article for something like the drift code or get it and I know Mary Davidson just be married McLennan from the south and she she's been reading a series of historical articles. And that would be a wonderful,

Unknown Speaker 7:51
but well, you know, I write a lot, but I was thinking of putting it in the driftwood. But I just threw up my hand because I thought, Oh, heck, every time I write there, there's such a big commotion going on, because I tell the truth as it is. And a lot of people get offended.

Unknown Speaker 8:14
Well, you could always try talking to Mary and again her iterated give her all the facts.

Unknown Speaker 8:19
No, it's okay. I felt that what's what, what is there to tell these people with the onus, appreciate us? Why bring it to the forefront? Oh, I think it should, you know, and then I want to tell you that because of Japanese, most of them are Canadians gave to this community and during wartime we left you know, the central cemetery up there. Yes. Mother will tell you a long time ago when she was little this lady gave a plot next to the white cemetery because there was no place to bury the Japanese because they wouldn't allow oriental to be buried next to the white. Okay. So during the war, they took very good care of the rest of the central cemetery. It cut the grass and everything. And when mom and dad came home, that place was a mess. People had pushed over the tombstones and everything.

Unknown Speaker 9:29
It's really, I mean, it's just incredible. What happened. Yeah, to

Unknown Speaker 9:33
see a lot of those people. A lot of them are still alive. Yeah. But mother was quite angry because why should people take their hatred against dead people? They're dead right? And now they segregated the Japanese cemetery in You know what they've been doing? They've been burying all the Caucasians into the Japanese cemetery because they didn't have enough room. And I brought that back to the cemetery commission, their committee and the Undertaker, and I told them, hey, it wasn't good enough for you people. So it's still I just we just went up to the cemetery on Sunday. Yeah. And it's still there bringing more people. And there's that section there that my de mer kameez had donated money for our family. Pretty soon if I hadn't said anything, there'll be burying it right smack in the middle. And then, like I told you during the war, they pushed down the tombstones. So these Undertaker's think that there's nobody buried, where they're digging, but there are, and I am so angry. I said to Richard, hey, I'm gonna go off my rocker and go dig the bodies up and throw it away. I told him, I won't do that. But I was really angry.

Unknown Speaker 11:14
Yeah, well, that's terrible. thing to do. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 11:17
And since I've lived on this island, born and educated and walked, I've walked everywhere. When I was here. And I'm really offended. People who come to this island start bringing their hangups I would say, Yeah, you know, and in this day and age when we supposedly have the charter of Canada, which says that each individual is supposed to be treated equally under the justice system. There is

Unknown Speaker 11:56
at least some, I know, some recognition, which, but

Unknown Speaker 12:02
we, you know, we like to be treated as human. We don't want people to love us, because there's people we don't like either. Sure. But I don't like some of these innuendos and the troubles that people make on this island. I'm really disappointed. Because I consider this a waste as well. People should live together just a small island to think oh, yeah, I know. I really agree. Yeah. And then all the trouble that we've gone through and my mother's 86 Why should she be going through this kind of thing at this time and age? You know,

Unknown Speaker 12:44
she was telling me a little bit about I didn't call him your mother. You were telling me about when you what happened in the war, and they took your your husband away by Jasper,

Unknown Speaker 12:55
white, yellow Han.

Unknown Speaker 12:57
So where did you go? After you sit? You were just telling me that you want

Unknown Speaker 13:02
to see in a barn? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Dirty, dirty barn. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 13:12
How long were you there?

Unknown Speaker 13:15
I think maybe two months. So we are very happy. We have people over years.

Unknown Speaker 13:24
And you had to take all your five children. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 13:27
My mother didn't have anyone to know. We just loved everything. They said, Oh, that's another thing. I want to tell you. Recently, the Moroni government signed that bill the redress so that everybody could get $21,000 My father died six months before that was signed. And he's suffered terribly. And he didn't get anything but it's not the money per se. You didn't live to see any recognition of wrong that was done. And soon after, when I was here, some people made the remark Hey, you, you people shouldn't get that 21,000 How about those soldiers in Hong Kong that suffered this etc, etc. You know, you just shouldn't have this and I said, Hey, I'm a Canadian, but Japanese or Japanese or different type of people. And I said to them You know, I would give them the money. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 14:47
Yeah, if they would just take too close bags, leave their home and go live in a stable.

Unknown Speaker 14:57
What happened after you stayed there? Pretty Two months could you come back to Salt Springs? Or was that

Unknown Speaker 15:04
can come back? Which course or 4649 March we could come back to which course

Unknown Speaker 15:17
where were you after you were at the Hastings Center where

Unknown Speaker 15:21
did Greenwood

Unknown Speaker 15:24
Where's Greenwood?

Unknown Speaker 15:25
Greenwood is abandoned mining town in the interior near the American border oh yeah so race see it's nice yeah can

Unknown Speaker 15:43
pretty I guess the way you were living with not to

Unknown Speaker 15:47
valley like this and it's all dry on dry on

Unknown Speaker 15:52
oh yeah I've seen those places

Unknown Speaker 15:55
I stood doing very first they put us undertake undertaking you know Mr. yourself

Unknown Speaker 16:14
the man who owned all sunset drive I'm sorry what was his name? Iwasaki? Yeah no. All sunset drive

Unknown Speaker 16:23
640 acres. Somebody that sings and made money

Unknown Speaker 16:34
but we didn't have any money.

Unknown Speaker 16:37
How did you Did they give you to the Government give you some kind of oh, wait

Unknown Speaker 16:40
a minute. We didn't have any money.

Unknown Speaker 16:44
Because everything you had to leave everything.

Unknown Speaker 16:47
So all we were scrounging for money. Wild roots. Wild leaves. To make to Greenwood word. Go mother. Number two, where did we go? Next? Yeah, they shipped us it again to lemon Creek. No, very far. No.

Unknown Speaker 17:22
It will go. We went to the audition.

Unknown Speaker 17:27
We're about to Norberto was it

Unknown Speaker 17:32
a bad race? What was it like to do? Weeks? You know, she could beat but my husband had.

Unknown Speaker 17:43
Oh, appendicitis operation.

Unknown Speaker 17:47
So very strong. Then they send back to

Unknown Speaker 17:51
So your husband was back with you? Was he in green? Green.

Unknown Speaker 17:58
After after, okay.

Unknown Speaker 18:01
So then we change

Unknown Speaker 18:05
race, we had to come back because my father couldn't work. On the Sugarpea he had the operation appendicitis operation. So the government sent us back to the interior to those camps. Yeah. So where did we go? Mother? We went to SLoCaT. Slocan? Valley UVU.

Unknown Speaker 18:27
I've been there actually. Yeah, I've seen that place.

Unknown Speaker 18:29
Then when they shipped us to Roseberry

Unknown Speaker 18:36
15 times 15.

Unknown Speaker 18:41
Marriages by the lake? Towards a smoker. Okay. Yeah. Then we said to you, Denver? Yes.

Unknown Speaker 18:58
It's how would you like what would happen? Would someone come to you and say, Okay, you have to move again? Is that how

Unknown Speaker 19:06
it would work? That's a government order.

Unknown Speaker 19:08
So would were you with a group of families who would also be moved. With those families that you knew at all they weren't from from here. They were just people who happen to be who were Japanese who were being sent.

Unknown Speaker 19:23
It's just like a big camp. Where do you what kind of housing did you have? When you were in? Great to tell you about the housing? It was

Unknown Speaker 19:34
to buy at

Unknown Speaker 19:39
lumber, you know, the sides were lumber with tar paper. And the winters were so severe that ice on the river

Unknown Speaker 19:51
inside? Yeah, it

Unknown Speaker 19:53
would turn green because it was so cool. And all the nails here had crossed on it we had crossed inside the rooms.

Unknown Speaker 20:06
How old were you children through all of this? How old was the oldest and

Unknown Speaker 20:12
I was about 50.

Unknown Speaker 20:14
He loves you

Unknown Speaker 20:19
telling you this experience has it's so ingrained into me that the inhuman treatment that a government can do so that as long as your face is not white death, they could do they really? And they said, Well, we're not gonna do stuff like this, but then again, oh, excuse me, I shouldn't say white because judo. Putting the wartime act on the French Canadians took their liberties away. That's right. So you see this dangerous?

Unknown Speaker 21:01
Do you think that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is going to protect people against that?

Unknown Speaker 21:05
Well, I bring that up because I hope it's strong because the bill of rights in the United States is surely strong.

Unknown Speaker 21:16
Notice the wars that they send governments and everybody just like gas, but mericans Japan never win this war. So they sent back two years ever. So two years? No, just to your second year. And they give back or land and everything. Not discounted.

Unknown Speaker 21:43
You know the the you know, sharp yesterday, you know that. Yes, my, my mother's father mother owned how many acres on the earth all around there and the mountains 200 acres and we live next to them. And Promat can grow before that. Power Line station was there to see the valley where we live. And the trauma that occurred when my father and mother came back. What happened they went to see their place I mean they can't get back the government soldier to a bedroom just think it's a trauma if you

Unknown Speaker 22:30
listen the whole thing sounds like the most incredible trauma to me as soon

Unknown Speaker 22:35
as my my old crafty producer show me I don't know. So two three days

Unknown Speaker 22:48
yeah, I have to tell you it's very very funny thing that a lot of people who have bought Japanese property on this island something very fortunate has occurred to me very ill has committed suicide my husband and wives have divorced with bitterness. I don't know what it is. But that's what happens

Unknown Speaker 23:22
really wavy lines get the hot

Unknown Speaker 23:29
so how did you get the well one ask about the other Japanese families did any of the other families come back to Saltspring? After no but did you have you did you keep in touch with any of the people that knew you so you come

Unknown Speaker 23:45
back to the cemetery? What time by

Unknown Speaker 24:01
we used to have a nice farm here but my husband passed away so we can't do anymore.

Unknown Speaker 24:07
No, it's a lot of work. Isn't everybody want

Unknown Speaker 24:09
to buy this property? Because close to town? So nice. six acres. I don't want to sell when did you did you buy this property then after the war? Is that what happened when you came back? We come back here 1954 And my husband so like this is our jungle? We bought this house two small houses. So

Unknown Speaker 24:37
where were you between 1949 and 1954.

Unknown Speaker 24:41
Anyway, we they don't do we stay in certain

Unknown Speaker 24:48
regards. Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 24:49
We we worked especially in the sugar beet field. Then you signed the contract. We were like slaves.

Unknown Speaker 24:59
Yeah. With this was during the war? Yeah. Okay. So you had to sign a contract

Unknown Speaker 25:05
with the farmer, they would choose whoever family they want to work for. In order to get our money, we would have to go from thinning the sugar beet to topping it. To that span, we wouldn't get any money. My mother is small, isn't she? She She and I can still pick you with that whole thing. Miles and miles, you know, the roads are miles, they do one whole day to go down there. And mother had to leave her little children by the irrigation ditch. It's a wonder they didn't die, you know, mosquitoes. Yeah. And one of my sisters watch them and Daddy and I have thinning, thinning is to make spaces between each plant so they'll grow. And later on, it was reading time in the fitter feet of Alberta. And excuse me, sometimes winter would come very, sometimes September. The Blizzard would come in here we have the sugar beets in the ground. And we tried to get the sugar beet out of the ground and top it and it was just wet. Heavy. They were how many pounds? Would you say those sugar beets were mother? Those heavy? Well, yeah. You'd have to put it on your need and top it. Take the top you throw it on to the wagon. And I'm telling you, I see my mother doing all that hard work. I like to see all these people who are so critical of us go through what mom did, especially mama and daddy, him. And then finally, we would get paid very low wages. You know, those

Unknown Speaker 27:13
were you paid only if you harvested them you have to you

Unknown Speaker 27:16
sign the contract. Yeah. And during the winter, the severe winter, we had no money. So dad would have to work at get go to maybe five miles away with two teams of horses and bring it home. And he would have to load a wagon all by himself. And then my father come in maybe 50 below zero. And I remember daddy's eyebrows. These were just frosted. And so I always think to myself today, I hear a lot of young people crying. Oh, we can't make it or give us some money to the government, you know, help us. I haven't got compassion for them. I'm sorry. Because I've seen Mom and Dad struggle so hard. No one helped, you know. And when they had to come back here and had to clear the land you see ever Moses Park? Yes. This place was just like that. They had to start their life all over.

Unknown Speaker 28:31
What so what happened? The war ended. And what happened then,

Unknown Speaker 28:37
while they wouldn't let us come home for how many years? Three years after the government didn't still trust us. You know, it's incredible.

Unknown Speaker 28:51
To see three, three men go back to two men if they used to work with so male, dawn to death. So they go back to Toronto. And they doing nobody wants to go back to Jamaica.

Unknown Speaker 29:08
So as soon as you could come back, did you come back to Salt Spring or did you stay in? And we

Unknown Speaker 29:16
did mom and dad and the family didn't have any money. So they worked at this restaurant. My my mother's brother had started and he was having financial difficulties or the family went there.

Unknown Speaker 29:29
It was that in Cardston Yeah, so you were Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 29:35
Yeah, and

Unknown Speaker 29:36
we run and we made

Unknown Speaker 29:47
the jump and then I want to tell you something. We talked to the other. This lady that works for the the Revenue Canada came recently. And did you know A lot of people called up Revenue Canada and said investigate the depths where did they get the money to buy the land know that Revenue Canada came here twice that early well year wasn't

Unknown Speaker 30:18
combat ships is different points maybe testified that's when the beginning I told him I told him you want something to know I have no idea because I didn't want to come but somebody

Unknown Speaker 30:37
told you this island has a lot of hidden things this

Unknown Speaker 30:45
island have a lot of nice people doesn't I guess

Unknown Speaker 30:58
a cottage call it cottage industry. cottage industry is little businesses that people did on this island. Right? They told us to bad you people have to conform. And they made Richard conform to the bylaws at that time and rezone that property. And these other people who were doing business they ignored them. Did you know? Yeah. And then all along. Later on. The place the RCMP member, there was a friend of people who were doing that type of business that Richard was doing. And this RCMP constable came to Richard and told them Hey, you better not compete with our friend. He said we're gonna shoot all of you Dinty mother.

Unknown Speaker 32:03
Yeah, she's reasonable, which you can run this business. So he's still running. I got down down your face and care or your family

Unknown Speaker 32:17
to placement. Yeah, policemen. Not incredible, but

Unknown Speaker 32:22
time knows who he is. And that man knows who he is to but later on the displacement called Richardson. Oh, hey, you boy pick up my hat who treated him like, you know how they treated the blacks. And so Richard, gentle as he is. He went up to the sergeant. I told them, he took a witness up there. And the sergeant sort of quiet that down because he didn't want to lose his job. And that's constable whether he went up to another area,

Unknown Speaker 33:01
yet they end up playing tennis.

Unknown Speaker 33:05
So when mother and dad were first starting here, they vandalized their first crop here.

Unknown Speaker 33:15
The people on the

Unknown Speaker 33:17
Yeah, so just

Unknown Speaker 33:18
before the war or

Unknown Speaker 33:20
they came home and they're trying to make a living. So I couldn't stand that anymore. So I appealed. Why it's 1231 1031. I went and demanded the Western Regional headquarter of RCMP come in investigator I said, I'm going to the media. And I said, during the war, you drag my father out of our home. So I said you owe something to us. So I guess he was jumping up and down. Because I was so mad and he sent three high ranking constable for Victoria, Vancouver. They came,

Unknown Speaker 34:05
they better look good for you then for doing that.

Unknown Speaker 34:09
I don't take any crap from anybody. Yeah, never. But can you imagine them? vandalizing the property here the the crop? And then the another thing is not too long or years back. Not too long ago. Somebody Up the road started complaining about mother and father doing business in the customers parking on Rainbow Road there. enrichers customer parks, they're coming to talk. And he he went to the island trust and said America Amis are making it hazardous for the schoolchildren to work on Rainbow row. And at that year, yeah. Tom Toynbee He, he was the transportation manager of the island trust and he called up the minister in Victoria. They put up no parking signs up here, or did they? I parked there. No, before or before? July. I called him in here. You know, there was a big stink about that. And all these people that know, the American family, they really called up Tom Ford. They told them are good. But the thing is, did you know that? The time is we're very good family friends. This father. Oh, yes. And mama did something to us. And she was very sad.

Unknown Speaker 35:55
So you did have there were some people who you did get along. I mean, who who did seem to respect you? And what?

Unknown Speaker 36:02
Come to our aid.

Unknown Speaker 36:05
During the war? You mean? No, I don't mean during the war. I mean, before the war.

Unknown Speaker 36:10
Before the war, you know, we were supposed to have had a lot of friends because we were involved in the Anglican Church. We were baptized and confirmed. When we were leaving, and all this, no one came to our aid and said, Hey, we were looking after your property or we will help. And that really saddens me. Yeah. Because they said, they made us become Christians, you know, all of these people. If you're Christian, you're supposed to look out for your friends and everything. And yeah, we were really sad. And so nowadays, I've lost my religion. I have God lives within me. That's all I need. I will not go to church. Right? Well, not guys. depressing place to me. To you know, I and then the thing is, when mother and daddy had this little fun, and they're working, and they the church members would come and say Mr. And Mrs. mer. Kami. Would you like to donate something for whatever fun? And my father and mother never denied them? There were some that gave so much to them. They never held anything against that's how my home my mother and daddy were is just sat up there.

Unknown Speaker 37:52
When you came back after the war, how did you get along with the people on the on the island, the white people who had stayed here and

Unknown Speaker 38:03
when we come back here, only two people come to see us. Mrs. B, Mr. And Mrs. B. They come to see us the putting the one chocolate box but another 100 Mrs. B just mother. She bring us lemon cake in them. And another one very new giving us political route and I never see another people never never come to see us. Yeah, we come back here and Rosen Marriott, high school Rishi. They said, we are very, very poor people. They say, you know, everybody said, Are you coming? babysit, but coming? Housework? I said no. My kids never go work. Yeah, let's

Unknown Speaker 39:12
talk about my sisters. When they went to university and got their degrees. My sister Rhodes, who is the vice president at the University, UBC hospital now. She went to this hospital to ask for a job as an RN. And one of the board members says we don't hire jobs last year with that being said. And then my sister got a degree in education and she tried to get a job at this school. The school that my parents and everybody had donated to and they said no, we don't want that Jeff teaching our children so they never got The job board, school board or the hospital forecast what happened. But then again, you look back and say, Oh, you were really angry. You say, Well, too bad for you. They could have given so much to the community.

Unknown Speaker 40:22
Oh, I, I, I've certainly heard myself. I've heard it said on this coast that what happened to the Japanese here has been one of the biggest problems in the economy of BC. But that's part of the reason for the discrimination. Is it Pete The Japanese have worked so hard and did so well. I mean, a lot of it's just simple jealousy. It is, you know, economics.

Unknown Speaker 40:43
Yeah. They wanted to see fishermen wanted to get us out of here. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And all these farmers wanted to get rid of them. But even now, you can see the backlash, like, Japan is doing so well. So the jealously arises. That's right. And they put us into the same category as the foreign Japanese. You say? So it's a never ending affair. It really is. And I just hope that things would get better. But today, I don't believe it will.

Unknown Speaker 41:27
When you you must have been in school for quite a few years before the war. Yeah, I was. What Which school did you go to? Again? Ganges?

Unknown Speaker 41:36
Well, I used to go to the Catholic school. I mean, the Catholic church up there. Oh, yeah. What's the walk from a way over a sharp road? Right. And I went up, I had to go up there.

Unknown Speaker 41:47
And that is that where the Ganges

Unknown Speaker 41:49
school was? You know, it was a calf right

Unknown Speaker 41:52
behind the bakery. Oh, yeah. Right up to school. In this new school, this you never got,

Unknown Speaker 41:59
I went a year here. Just a year here. But um, yeah, I always think about going into school and having to survive all my thoughts. Kids, taunting me. Yeah. Growing

Unknown Speaker 42:14
up. Were there other Japanese children in in? In the school? There were quite a few families here. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 42:20
Yeah. But we were really talented every day to target. And then I, what I recall very vividly is one time, my lunch was stolen by this boy and a girl. And so I told her, I went to see this teacher of mine. So what he did to me is in front of the whole class, because you see, they didn't have grade one teacher or grade two teacher. It was from grade five to eight, I think. He said, I talked to this boy and girl and they said, you're lying else that they didn't take your lunch. You're the liar. And I was really punished. And I remember freaking era, you know. So class talking about justice. That's why I'm so village radical, and I said even at that time, people weren't fair. Crazy. grew up being pushed around. You have to

Unknown Speaker 43:37
ask you a little bit more about about your parents. What they came, they came to Saltspring. Right. When when you were?

Unknown Speaker 43:46
Yeah. 1919. January 6, we came here.

Unknown Speaker 43:53
And what did they did they live long after them. Or were they? How long were they on? Saltspring?

Unknown Speaker 44:02
Oh, since we came here 1990. Theory. So government takes them out.

Unknown Speaker 44:10
So they my father, grandfather went to went through all that stuff we went through and they went together with her. They separate everybody. No, no compassion, nothing. Anyways, my grandfather ended up in Cardston. With grandmother and my Uncle Jim, and others, they were doing the restaurant and I told you they went into financial bind, you know. And my grandfather actually died of a broken heart. He lost all that land here, you know. And he died in Carson. And my grandmother became bedridden. Soon after My mother. Yeah. So you

Unknown Speaker 45:06
brought her back here back and he she died 57 or the brother told me I got to take care of my mother. So he took everything from mother then never take care. Yeah, but anyway, he died us to one more brothers in Victoria but

Unknown Speaker 45:35
yeah, but they had greenhouses down in the ground and they're harming the greenhouse. My father built that 180

Unknown Speaker 45:44
by 300. So you can do at

Unknown Speaker 45:49
what kind of things did they grow? Tomatoes?

Unknown Speaker 45:53
180. But yeah, it's fair to

Unknown Speaker 45:58
say Mr. Hunt lives on the property where my grandfather and grandmother lived. They were named that creek, O'Connell Creek last year. Mr. Hunt was telling me that when they bought that property, they found so much class in the creek and he couldn't understand where the class came from. So what they had done was battered the greenhouses and dumped bulldoze all the glass into the oak and Oak Creek is named O'Connell Creek is in government archives now because that's what they did recently. But they used to ship their tomatoes to Vancouver on that Princess, Margaret Marguerite that used to come from

Unknown Speaker 46:51
Joan. To Princess Joan. Great. No,

Unknown Speaker 46:55
I think it was Marguerite was it other? It was like a freighter of passenger

Unknown Speaker 47:00
knowing that yet big boat was that Margaret used to come you know, I can't remember the name maneras top people's doing greener. How same is my father?

Unknown Speaker 47:15
Your main island? They

Unknown Speaker 47:16
were Japanese? Yeah, I've heard that there was a very prosperous Japanese community there. With these.

Unknown Speaker 47:22
They ate the Gobi lot. You know, he was the custodian. So we always talk about the you know, custodian, Davis so mad.

Unknown Speaker 47:38
Yeah. But the thing is, he was a young man wonder a long time ago news to do logging and things like that. And he was supposed to be good family friend of mom and dad. Yeah, he said, that time I can picture him. He put his arm around my mother's that Kimiko when you come back, don't worry. Everything will be here. Not even what pair of chopsticks will be gone. When I said that, I think his son was quite offended. You know, because there was so much animosity I had against him. Because he let mom down. And the rest of the people really did.

Unknown Speaker 48:31
Yeah. Did you did you and your husband when you came back? Did you work? Farming? Yes.

Unknown Speaker 48:38
What what did you grow? Right? This is the place

Unknown Speaker 48:41
so you can't was vegetables and berries are

Unknown Speaker 48:47
still very in the recipe. This is beer. And we have we have

Unknown Speaker 48:53
asparagus on boys and berries and they had a little like a truck farm. They sold everything

Unknown Speaker 48:59
and or did you sell to

Unknown Speaker 49:03
come here?

Unknown Speaker 49:04
They're like, like vegetable. So they saw this?

Unknown Speaker 49:08
There was a dairy farmers market or not? The produce at the stores were really packed. Yeah, so mother and dad used to have regular customers.

Unknown Speaker 49:23
So you didn't in after the war you didn't ship like to Vancouver

Unknown Speaker 49:28
or just to Victoria. That's true strawberry. No very

Unknown Speaker 49:33
rosboroughs on the island, Fred? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 49:41
Yeah, it's my, my, my soul. It's a very good 113 agriculture speak. To test all soil in the spring. They said that this is the best school really well. That's it. People want to buy my soil. They said, wouldn't you put your bag? You know? $2 ordinances there to them. I did a bag. I said, No, I don't want to serve soil. Yeah, no.

Unknown Speaker 50:19
Not the young better. But it used to come here because

Unknown Speaker 50:24
many times he come to my god with my husband. He's pleased

Unknown Speaker 50:31
to where he was really friendly. Nice to come here because he had a summer hormone designer. Mr. James, his daughter was married to I think a young so that's why he used to come. But

Unknown Speaker 50:54
the old man had been, you always come to see a knife.

Unknown Speaker 51:00
So actually, as I was telling you, there's a lot of prominent people wouldn't know the Mercer County so if they happen to be in Victoria, Vancouver, they always come to see mom. Really, they really do

Unknown Speaker 51:16
with people.

Unknown Speaker 51:20
They're very well, because they're not. No, it isn't. Because they're rich. They're nice mother. They're very nice people.

Unknown Speaker 51:28
I have a different America. I go, Oh,

Unknown Speaker 51:32
America goes Yes. They know.

Unknown Speaker 51:36
People from varying hands. You know, they come by boat. Oh, yeah. Always come up with you.

Unknown Speaker 51:45
When mother appeared on national television, or friends throughout Canada saw mother and they all wrote to her shoulder and said, Hey, TV, we saw you. You're famous. Did

Unknown Speaker 52:02
you soon that's the wrong way to go. Sick this church, like everybody does. Open House.

Unknown Speaker 52:16
Oh, lovely.

Unknown Speaker 52:21
Well, I just like to say thank you. Thank you for your time.

Unknown Speaker 52:38
There, okay, you know how much they're very badly. I have to come back. First of all, I think she did you find the price? I think she did. She said she was here yesterday. So what?

Unknown Speaker 52:54
What were you telling me about the tinge

Unknown Speaker 52:58
right now used to be highly, you know, he retired three, four years ago, and wife have all kinds of

Unknown Speaker 53:16
what do you call that?

Unknown Speaker 53:19
moles or freckles or

Unknown Speaker 53:21
go? No, no, not the fickle. Digital thing good. Yeah. Yeah, that's my Japanese family over there and doing tickets.

Unknown Speaker 53:37
Oh, really? On the bullet property there. Yeah. There's, I know that there were two or Well, there are about three or three old buildings there.

Unknown Speaker 53:47
But the road you can see. You can do? Yeah. Resting. So yeah.

Unknown Speaker 53:55
So you some of your family used to live there and work?

Unknown Speaker 53:59
No, no. family never rent a house or anything? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 54:05
So what?

Unknown Speaker 54:09
That, you know, Mr. Barofsky, made? Yes, the five acre lake you really broke down all kinda trout and, and he had a nice, cheery interior on overdue. Yeah, they're still there. Still. Yeah. And he always wanted to come and get the, you know, so we always go within. And he had a nice chestnut tree.

Unknown Speaker 54:38
Great. Where

Unknown Speaker 54:41
Mr. Palmer used to be at work.

Unknown Speaker 54:45
Mr. Palmer? That's right. I know Irene Palmer.

Unknown Speaker 54:48
Yeah, but he doesn't know going his way. But the property, the chimney dig by descending when you go down And if they're inside oh yeah I heard that they know more to come to see you said she's in the green with about 80 or

Unknown Speaker 55:12
she is I went to see her last week because we live in the house where she used to live and I want to know do you don't know when that was built do I don't know but

Unknown Speaker 55:22
too bad a Mr. Broke his house burned down oh that was English though. You know I've seen photographs then. That lessness to city Devaney's oh all people in the men working their way big chestnut they bought the evening they bring me a bucket to chestnuts and that petition that my mother grant in that chapter she planted the 1923 Crazy no oh

Unknown Speaker 56:06
oh dear. I wonder why

Unknown Speaker 56:11
Gosh Kelly brown maple down did kind of creep in so we knew you know that Goose Bay can obey oh yeah

Unknown Speaker 56:31
okay

Unknown Speaker 56:33
she's telling me about Mr. Bullock we live on part of that property now family. That's right.

Unknown Speaker 56:39
The book isn't yours gentleman. He had that brand new for do you know he never did I just shake lucky

Unknown Speaker 56:53
I've heard I've heard people say how generous he was and how kind he was to people you

Unknown Speaker 56:58
know not only about the Japanese family you should have mother talk about other old timers position NGOs all these old people the old timers Yeah, like Mr. Bullock in different places people did you tell her you're the first woman to drive that model T Oh really? No. There was what year was it mother? I think it fit into industry on design and they didn't have that many good roads at

Unknown Speaker 57:31
that time. Most people have a wagon and buggy so I thought brand new three quarter ton the Ford Oh really? The night drive so fast anyway skip cannot see or hear me so can I drive fast?

Unknown Speaker 57:56
Dear? I heard that some of the people didn't like to have the cars when the cars first came to the island people thought that was a terrible thing.

Unknown Speaker 58:08
People from I think I forget the name he they used to do no oh yeah, they were sitting there they have a very nice car. That's how you and I bought that. I started drive in one of my meal delivery date is a heavy Indian. She said you could dread chi could certainly see bad the old or chi

Unknown Speaker 58:41
says was this Bob Aikman used to say no no

Unknown Speaker 58:50
no that's lovely.

Unknown Speaker 58:57
That's my baby breasts yeah

Unknown Speaker 59:07
this was so nice.

Unknown Speaker 59:09
Lady how you were fishermen and you know all the Reves where all the fish around this island? Yeah, well, you

Unknown Speaker 59:18
know, you didn't tell but you told me your parents fished around here and you used to go on the fishing boats. Did the whole family go?

Unknown Speaker 59:24
No, no. No. My point about that. I have a sick sister and small sister and brother. So I have to help you know father local school where myself I can speak the way they do great. So not too bad, too bad terms,

Unknown Speaker 59:58
right. That's why I'm here learning For me,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:01
I, I went to pens. So I know Do you have any so I could write people can t you're so nice.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:18
Oh really

Unknown Speaker 1:00:25
you know that I was telling you about the cemetery my mother's little brother that fell off the fishing boat and died. She's dead. Oh

Unknown Speaker 1:00:39
is a

Unknown Speaker 1:00:40
valuable mother but they wouldn't let her let her be buried here at that time. What year with a long time ago to see so she's and then I want to tell you something is has nothing to do with this island. Okay, but it has to do cemetery. The cemetery and Shimon is where all the Japanese were buried. It was bulldozed over, did you know that during the war, and everything was a built, gone, you know, you couldn't even find out where people were buried. And so happened that what other churches used that cemetery as a parking lot. They needed some gravel as a felon, and they found all these tombstones. Yeah. And so there was there's an investigation, you know, about that going on now? Yeah. They're going to try to put a monument up in one of my mother's your brother. Oh, my brother. My brother is was buried there. So they can find where his grave is because that's what they build those did. Not Can you imagine? Say for instance, with my save in my anger I

66_Kimiko-Murakami_Alice-Tanaka.mp3

Whisper, formatted by Claude

25.06.2026

no

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You came here right after the First World War? Yeah, not came here. I come back here. I went to Japan to educate. Where were you born? Steveston. Oh, I was down there a little while ago. A little while ago. I was born in 1904. 1904? Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, not very many old people in this island anymore. No? Well, I've been talking to some of them, but I don't... Do you think you're the oldest now? I don't know. Mrs. Holman, you know, she's very old here. She's older than me. But she's still living next door. She's the same as me, but she's very healthy. That's great. Like you, you seem to... She always go down, up and down, but she can walk down. But you've got that nice little cart there to get around on. Oh, yeah. I thought that was great. No, I want it down there. Just to go around. I don't need a license, you know that. Oh, really? That's great. I have it too. Which bought me a golf cart too. Oh, I see that back there in the shed. So, you came here, you came back in 19... You went to Japan to go to school. Yeah. And I come back, yeah. 19, 19 March. Right after what was the war. Uh-huh. And you came to Salt Spring then? No. I come to Crofton. Crofton? Yeah. My mother and father was a fishing fishing, you know? Yeah. But they got, sometimes, buyers, they got a great big boat, but by it. So, they sold us three, I guess. And we bought the, probably the Sharp Road, you know?

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Where was it on Sharp Road? Oh, you know. Passed out to Atkin Northern. Yeah. That's a nice big place. How much land did you have? My father had the 200 acres. 200 acres down there? No, down there. First, we bought the 50 acres. Uh-huh. And we have another 50 acres up to Rainbow Road. And the way up there, it's a virgin timber, he had 100 acres. Really? Oh. But it's no use there, but the government took everything away. We never had a license. I had 17 acres. My land and my husband took about 10 years to clean up, you see. That time, no bulldozer, nothing. Yeah. Just the pick and shovel, you know? Uh-huh. Very hard work, and we cleaned up, and we planted three and a half acres of caravass, three acres of strawberries. All kinds of berries. Really? And ready to pick. So, the government took my house down the way. March, 41 March, 13th. 41? Yeah. Yeah. Thirteen. And they sent them to Jasper. We have the yellow head. What, where did, did you go with him? No, no. We can't go with him. So, I have about 2,000, 3,000 chicken, maybe 5,000, you know? And five kids, my husband. Yeah, Japanese, uh, citizen. About five people from the side, sent way up there. He was a Japanese citizen, was he? No. Oh, my husband was. Your husband was. But, uh, so what happened to you and the children, in the farm? Oh, behind and, uh, let me see how many, oh, April, I remember April, April 21st or something.

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I can't remember. Yeah. Then, uh, we have to move. So, we sold chicken. And my husband got so much to come in, but, and I sold the whole chicken. Huh? Here comes my daughter. He should know for the year. Hi. Hi. I wanted to tell them how that built, it was built, Mother. Well, it's been 50 years, right? They had an anniversary, basically. Uh-huh. And we were talking about it, and at that time, 50 years ago, Gavin Maud had come around to all of our, the Japanese community and said, he would like us, uh, to donate to the building fund because we had a lot of children going to school. I didn't like that afterwards, but that's what he said. So, at that time, my father gave $75. That was a lot of money. Yeah. What, what year? Fifty years ago. Fifty years from now. That's when the elementary school was going to be built. Right. And, uh, a lot of other Japanese in this community gave to that fund. But, there were many people who couldn't afford monetary fund to donate. So, they gave labor, a one-week labor working on that school. Yeah. You see? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But, I'm sure that the New York people on this island don't know how much the Japanese community gave to the school, and, uh, they fought for supplier.

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They gave to the community. Yeah. You see? How big was the Japanese community? I think. How many? Would you say how many families? Oh, I don't know. How many? About eight. About eight families. Yeah. But, you, you, you gotta count those bachelors, too, mother. Oh, then all together eleven. Eleven or twelve. Eleven or twelve. Eleven or twelve. There were a lot of, um, Japanese people who helped to clear the land on this island originally, were there? Yes. Yes. My mother would, uh, tell you those things, but I thought I'd like to bring up. To bring that up about the school. Or like, uh, you know, they had organ fund, and they gave the organ to St. George's Church. Oh, really? And all these different things, and I was quite peeved because, um, when the fiftieth anniversary came, there was no mention of how much the Japanese community gave to that school. And then, um, I've come across a lot of, um, racism from some of these families, you know, they're making, um, racial, um, remarks, whatever, making it hard on Richard. Right now? Yeah, and I wanted to tell them, hey, if you don't like the Japanese, don't send your kids to that school because there's a lot of nails pounded in there that the Japanese pounded in. Well, you know, that would be such an interesting thing, such an interesting article for something like the driftwood, or get it, I know Mary Davidson, Mary McLennan, from the south, and she, um, she's been writing a series of historical articles, and that would be wonderful. But, um, well, you know, I write a lot, but I was thinking of putting it in the driftwood, but I, I just threw up my hand, because I thought, oh, heck, every time I write there,

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there's such a big commotion going on, because I tell the truth as it is, and a lot of people get offended, you see. Well, I mean, you could always try talking to Mary, and get her to write it, and give her all the facts. No, it's okay, um, I, I felt that, what, what's the, um, what, what is there to tell these people if they don't appreciate us? Yeah. Why bring it to the forefront? Oh, I think you should. You know, and then, um, I want to tell you that, because the Japanese, um, most of them were Canadians, gave to this community, and, uh, during wartime, we left, you know the central cemetery up there? Yes. Mother will tell you, a long, long time ago, when she was little, this lady gave a plot next to the white cemetery, because there was no place to bury the Japanese, because they wouldn't allow oriental to be buried next to the white, okay? Mm-hmm. So during the war, they took very good care of the rest of the central cemetery. They cut the grass and everything. And when mom and dad came home, that place was a mess. People had pushed over the tombstones and everything. It's really, I mean, it's just incredible what happened in World War II. Yeah, but you see, a lot of those people, a lot of them are still alive. Yeah. But, uh, mother was quite angry because, why should people take their hatred against dead people? Sure. They're dead, right? And now, they segregated the Japanese cemetery, and you know what they've been doing?

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They've been burying all the Caucasians into the Japanese cemetery because they didn't have enough room. And I brought that fact to the cemetery commission there, committee, and the undertaker, and I told them, hey, um, it wasn't good enough for you people. So, just because you're running out, it's still, I just, we just went up to the cemetery on Sunday. Yeah. And it's still, uh, they're bringing more people. And there's that section there that my, um, the Murakamis had donated money for our family. Pretty soon, if I hadn't said anything, they'll be burying it right smack in the middle. And then, like I told you, during the war, um, they pushed down the tombstones. So, these undertakers think that there's nobody buried where they're digging, but there are. And I am so angry. Yeah. I said to Richard, hey, I'm gonna go off my rocker and go dig the bodies up and throw it away. I told him. Yeah. I won't do that, but I was really angry. Oh yeah, well that's terrible. That's a terrible thing to do. You see? Yeah. And since I've lived on this island, born and educated and walked, I've walked everywhere when I was little. And I'm really offended at people who come to this island start bringing their hangups, I would say. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's a day and age when we supposedly have the Charter of Canada, which says that each individual is supposed to be treated equally under the justice system. Yeah. It isn't so. Yeah. Well at least the government has given some... I know. ...some recognition, which...

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But it's, it's, we, you know, we like to be treated as human. We don't want people to love us because there's people we don't like either. Sure. But I don't like some of these innuendos and troubles that people make on this island. I'm really disappointed because I consider this an oasis where people should live together. Yeah. It's just a small island. Yeah. Don't you think? Oh yeah. I know. I really agree. All the trouble that we've gone through. My mother's, um, 86. Why should she be going through this kind of thing at this time and age, you know? She was telling me a little bit about, uh... I didn't call me a fair mother. You were telling me about when you, uh, what happened in the war and they took your, your husband away. Mm. Up by Jasper. What... Yellowhead. Yellowhead. Where did you go after you sit? You were just telling me that you moved. Oh, we go to a fishing park. Yeah. In barn. Oh yeah. Yeah. Dirty, dirty barn. Yeah. How long were you there? Uh, I think we lived. How many? Two months or so? Yeah. We were very lucky. Other people, over a year or so. And you had to take all your five children? Yeah. My mother didn't have anyone to know for. We just left everything. They said, um, oh, that's another thing I, uh, I want to tell you. Recently, the, uh, Moroni government signed that bill, the redress, so that everybody could get $21,000. My father died six months before that was signed. And he suffered terribly. And he, he didn't get anything, but it's not the money, per se.

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He didn't live to see any recognition of the wrong that was done. And soon after, when I was here, some people made the remark, hey, you, you people shouldn't get that $21,000. How about the soldiers in Hong Kong that suffered this, et cetera, et cetera? You know, you Jap shouldn't, um, have this. And I said, hey, I'm a Canadian. That's right. The Japanese are Japanese. That's right. They're different type of people. And I said to them, you know, I would give them the money. Yeah. Excuse me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. If they would, um, just take two clothes bags, leave their home, and go live in a stable, you know. What happened after you stayed there for two months? Could you come back to Salt Springs then? Oh, no. Or was that— We can't come back to West Coast until, oh, stop, 46, you know. But, uh, 49 March, we could come back to West Coast. Where were you after you were at the Hastings Center? We went to Greenwood. Yep. Where is Greenwood? Greenwood is an abandoned mining town in the interior, near the American border. Oh, yeah. So— Nice place, but— So— Don't say it's nice. Yeah, I can't help. Well, it's pretty. I guess the way you were living was not— No. It was in a valley like this. And it's all dry on the— dry on each side. Oh, yeah. I've seen those places in the interior. You know, first they sent us to Greenwood. Yeah. Yeah. Very first. They put us, you know, to undertake. You know? Yeah. Undertaker, you know, there used to be. Yeah. Undertaker, you know, there used to be. Yeah. Then, you know Mr. Iwasaki? No. No. The man who owned all Sunset Drive.

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I'm sorry, what was his name? Iwasaki. Yeah, no, I didn't— He owned all Sunset Drive. 640 acres. Uh-huh. Three miles of seafront. Really? Somebody took those things and made a lot of money. Yeah, I bet. Yeah. But, you know, Mr. Iwasaki? No. The man who owned all Sunset Drive. I'm sorry, what was his name? Iwasaki. Yeah, no, I didn't— He owned all Sunset Drive. Uh-huh. 640 acres. Uh-huh. Three miles of seafront. Really? Somebody took those things and made a lot of money. Yeah, I bet. Yeah. But, you know— Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, we didn't have any money. How did you—did they give you—did the government give you some kind of— No, wait a minute. We didn't have any money. Because everything, you had to leave everything. Yeah. So, we were scrounging for wild roots, wild leaves, to make do, you know? Yeah. And then, from Greenwood, where did we go, Mother? Greenwood. Not much to— Where did we go? Next New World. Yeah, they shipped us again to, uh, Lemon Creek. No, uh— Bay Farm. No. To Alberta. No, we didn't. To Alberta. No, we didn't. Just to go to, uh— Okay, I know some other stuff. Did we go to— Oh, yeah. We went to—oh, they shipped us to Alberta. Whereabouts in Alberta? Was it, you remember? No, no. Magrath. Very bad place. What was it like? We had to do beets, you know, sugar beets. Oh. But, uh, my husband had, um, what? Oh. Appendicitis operation. So he's now very strong. Then they sent back to— So your husband was back with you? Was he in— Yeah. In Greenwood? No, no. He— He sent to Alberta after. After.

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Okay. So, then we changed—how many ways? We had to come back because my father couldn't work on the sugar beets. He had the operation, appendicitis operation. So the government sent us back to the interior to those camps. Yeah. So where did we go, Mother? We went to Slocan? Yeah. Slocan Valley. You hear about that? I've been there, actually. Yeah. I've seen that place. Then they shipped us to, uh, Rosemary. Where's Rosemary? We changed about fifteen times. Fifteen times. Fifteen times. All over the place. Rosemary is by the lake that, uh, it's towards, uh— Slocan Lake. Slocan Lake. Slocan Lake. Okay. Yeah. Then we were sent to, uh, New Denver. Have you been to New Denver? Yes, I have been to New Denver. Very last. Yes, I have been to New Denver. Very last. It's, um, how would you, like, what would happen? Would someone come to you and say, okay, you have to move again? Is that how it would work? Sure, that's a government order. So, would, were you with a group of families who would also be moved? Yes. Yes. Yes. Were those families that you knew at all? They weren't from, from here? No. They were just people who happened to be, who were Japanese, who were being sent around? Yeah, it's just like a big camp of people, you know. Where did you—what kind of housing did you have when you were in the— Oh, that's really great to tell you about the housing. It was, uh— Fourteen by eighteen. Yeah, fourteen by eighteen. Eighteen. And it was just lumber, you know, the sides were lumber with tar paper. And the winters were so severe that the ice on the rivers would turn green. Ice on the—like yes, inside. You know, it would turn green because it was so cold. And all the nails had crossed on it.

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We had crossed inside the, um, um, rooms. How old were you children through all of this? How old was the oldest? I was the oldest. I was about fifteen. Oh, yeah. Reaching what, a year? Yeah. But, uh, I'm telling you, this experience has—it's so ingrained into me that, um, the human treatment that a government can do so that, as long as your face is not white— Yeah. —that they can do anything. They really can. And they said, well, we're not gonna do stuff like this, but then again—oh, excuse me, I shouldn't say white because Trudeau, uh, put in the wartime act on the French Canadians. They took their liberties away. That's right. So, you see, it's dangerous. Do you think that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is going to protect people against that? Well, I bring that up because I hope it's strong. Yeah. Because the Bill of Rights in the United States is surely strong now. Yeah. You see. You know, United States, uh, war starts. They send the—government send everybody, just like us. But Americans, oh, Japan never win this war. So they send back two years. Earlier. After so, early. Two years. No, just two years. Second year they go back. And they give back our land and everything. Not just Canada. You know the, uh, uh, you know Sharp Road, don't you? Yes, I do. You know the Booth Canal? Yes. Yes. Well, my mother's father and mother owned how many acres are all around there in the mountains? 200 acres. 200 acres. And we lived next to them. And from Atkin Road, before that, uh, power line station was there, you could see the valley

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where we lived. Uh-huh. And, uh, the trauma that occurred when my father and mother came back. What happened? They went to see their place. I mean, they can't get it back. The government sold it to a veteran. I mean, don't you think it's a trauma if you... Oh, listen, the whole thing sounds like the most incredible trauma to me. So my husband asked that my, uh, my whole property, owner. Yes. Could you sell me? No, I don't want to sell it. It's up to three years later. They seem like this. Yeah, I have to tell you, it's a very, very funny thing that... A lot of people who have bought Japanese property on this island... Something very unfortunate has occurred to them. Did you know? Oh, really? No, we didn't know that. They become very ill. Had a positive thing. Somebody has committed suicide. Yeah. Uh, the... The husband and wives have divorced with bitterness, and, uh... I don't know what it is, but that's what happens. Really? Well... Everyone's got the heart attack, and... You know, I don't know who's doing it, but, uh... So how did you get the... Well, I want to ask about the other Japanese families. Did any of the other families come back to Salt Spring after? Nobody. Nobody. Did you... Have you... Did you keep in touch with any of the people that you knew? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So you... They come back to see the cemetery. What time, boy? My mom? What? You don't know Penny? Yeah? She's been doing two wrestling. Mm-hmm. Okay. My father. Yeah.

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We used to have a nice farm here, but my husband passed away, so... Mm-hmm. We can't do anymore, so... No, it's a lot of work, isn't it? Yeah. Everybody wants to buy this property, because across the town... Right. It's a nice big six acres. Uh-huh. I don't want to sell. When did you... Did you buy this property, then, after the war? Is that what happened when you came back? No. We... We come back here in 1954. Oh, really? September. And my husband. So... Not like this. This is all jungle, you know? We bought it. Then we added this house to a small house, yeah. So, where were you between 1949 and 1954? Everywhere. We... Very dark. We stayed in Southern Alberta. In Cardston. Oh, yeah. But we... We worked especially in the... Sugar Beet Field. Then you signed a contract. We were like slaves. Yeah. With... This was during the war? Yeah. Okay. So you had to sign a contract? With the farmer. Uh-huh. They would choose whoever family they wanted to work for. In order to get our money, we would have to go from thinning the sugar beet to topping it. To that span. Uh-huh. Or we wouldn't get any money. Uh-huh. My mother is small, isn't she? She sure is. But I can still picture her with that coal thinning miles and miles. You know, the rows are miles. Take you one whole day to go down there. And mother had to leave her little children by the irrigation ditch. It's a wonder they didn't die. You know, mosquitoes. Yeah. Yeah. And one of my sisters watched them. And, uh... Daddy and I helped thinning. Thinning is to make spaces between each plant so they'll grow larger.

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Yeah. And later on it was weeding time in the bitter heat of Alberta. And, uh, excuse me. Sometimes, uh, winter would come very early. Sometimes in September, really, the blizzard would come. And here we have the sugar beet in the ground. And we tried to get the sugar beet out of the ground and top it. And it was just wet, heavy. They were... How many pounds would you say those sugar beets were, mother? I think about... Almost ten pounds. Those heavy ones. Huh? Ten pounds. Yeah. Really? You'd have to put it on your knee and top it. Take the top, you know, the top and then throw it onto the wagon. And I'm telling you, I see my mother doing all that hard work. I'd like to see all these people who are so critical of us go through what mom did, especially mama and daddy. Yeah. And then finally we would get paid very low wages and all those days. Were you paid only if you harvested them? Yeah, you had to. You signed a contract. Yeah. And during the winter, in the severe winter, we had no money. So dad would have to work and get gold to maybe five miles away with two teams of horses and bringing home hay. And he would have to load the hay wagon all by himself. And my father was coming maybe fifty below zero then, I remember. Daddy's eyebrows and his face were just crossed. And so I always think to myself today, I hear a lot of young people crying, oh we can't make it or give us some money to the government to, you know, help us.

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I haven't got compassion for them. I'm sorry. Because I've seen mom and dad struggle so hard. No one helped them, you know. Yeah. And when they had to come back here and had to clear the land. You see Gavin Moss's part, don't you? Yes. This place was just like that. Yeah. And they had to start their life all over here. So what happened? The war ended. And what happened then? Well they wouldn't let us come home for how many years? Three years. Three years after. Yeah, yeah. The government didn't still trust us. You know. That's incredible. See? See, three men go back to Tumenes. They used to work at Sawmill. They said, oh we don't want a job. So they go back to Toronto. And they doing very, very good. Nobody wanted to go back to Tumenes. Yeah. Yeah. So, as soon as you could come back, did you come back to Salt Spring? Or did you stay in, in Alberta? The mom and dad and the family didn't have any money, so they worked at this restaurant my mother's brother had started. And he was having financial difficulties, so the family went there. Was that in Cards too? Yeah. Yeah. So you worked there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh... We were on the restaurant for seven years. And we made a little money, so I came back here. Yeah. To buy this land and this house. Did you, and then I want to tell you something. We talked to the other, this lady that works for the, the Revenue Canada that came recently. And did you know that a lot of people called up Revenue Canada and said, investigate the Japs.

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Where did they get the money to buy the land? Did you know that Revenue Canada came here twice that early? What year was it, mother? Well, we come back here, 54 and maybe 55. That's when they came. Beginning. So I told him, I told him, you want something to know, I have a lawyer and a brother. So you better ask him. So he said, no, no. No, no, no. I don't want to come, but there's somebody here. So can you see, this Francois Island has a lot of hidden things that is terrible. No. Well, this island has lots of discrimination. You know? But, um... You know that? That's what people don't like us. They call it cottage industry. Cottage industry is little businesses that people did on this island. Right. They told us, it's too bad. You people have to conform. And they made Richard conform to the bylaws at that time and rezoned that property. And these other people who were doing business, they ignored them. Did you know that? No. Yeah. And then, all along, later on, the police, the RCMP member was a friend of people who were doing that type of business that Richard was doing. And this RCMP constable came to Richard and told him, hey, you better not compete with our friend.

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He said, we're going to shoot all of you, didn't he? Mother. Yeah. That policeman said, you can't run this business. Yeah. So if you're still running, I go down, kill your place and kill all your family. The policeman said that? Yeah, policeman. Isn't that incredible? But the sergeant at that time knows who he is. And that man knows who he is, too. But later on, this policeman called Richard and, oh, hey, you boy, pick up my hat and treated him like, you know how they treated the blacks? Yeah. Yeah. And so Richard, gentle as he is, he went up to the sergeant and told him. He took a witness up there. And the sergeant sort of quieted down because he didn't want to lose his job. And that constable went up, I know, he went up to another area. Yeah. They, they, you know. You know? And so, um. The policeman. Yeah, that's for sure. When mother and dad were first starting here, they vandalized their first crop here. The people on the island? Yeah. Yeah. So? Was this before the war or after? After they came home and they tried to make a living. So I couldn't stand that anymore, so I appealed. What time? What time? Why? It's 1231. 1031. How cook, mother? I went and demanded the Western Regional Headquarter of RCMP come and investigate. Or I said, I'm going to the media. And I said, during the war you dragged my father out of our home. So I said, you owe something to us. So I guess he was jumping up and down because I was so mad. And he sent three high ranking constables from Victoria.

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Vancouver fish. Oh really? They came. They better have. Good. Well good for you then for doing that. Um, I don't take any crop from anybody anymore. Yeah. Never. But can you imagine them vandalizing the property here, the, the crop? And then, um, another thing is, um, not too long years back, whoa, not too long ago, somebody up the road, uh, started complaining about mother and father doing business. And the customer's parking on Rainbow Road there. And Richard's customer parks there to come in to talk. And he, he went to the Island Trust and said, the Murakamis are, um, making it hazardous for the school children to walk on Rainbow Road. And at that time, Tom Toynbee, he, he was the transportation manager of the Island Trust. And he called up the highway minister in Victoria. Victoria. And did you know they put up no parking signs up here? Oh, did they have parks there? No, before. Oh, before, yeah. Until I, I called him in here. Uh, you know, there was a big stink about that. And all these people that know the Murakami family, they really called up Tom Toynbee, told them where to go. Good. But the thing is, did you know that the Toynbee's were very good family friends? His mother, Jessie, was a very good friend of Mama's family. And Mama told Jessie, oh, we have a son like that, that did something to us, you know? And she was very sad too. So you did have, there were some people who you did get along, I mean, who, who did seem

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to respect you and, and... Who, what? Uh, come to our aid? During the war, you mean? No, I don't mean during the war. I mean, before the war and... Oh, before the war, you know, we were supposed to have had a lot of friends, because we were involved in the Anglican Church. Uh-huh. We were baptized and confirmed. But when we were leaving and all this, no one came to our aid and said, gee, we will look after your property, or we will help you. And that really saddens me. Yeah. Because they said, uh, they made us become Christians, you know? All of these people. Uh, you know, if you're a Christian, you're supposed to look out for your, you know? friends and everything. And, uh, yeah, we were really saddened, so nowadays, uh, I've lost my religion. I have, uh, God lives within us. And, uh, we were really saddened, so nowadays, uh, I've lost my religion. I have, uh, God lives within me. That's all I need. I will not go to church. I will not. Yeah. Because, uh, it's a depressing place to me. You know? Yeah. I, I, and then the thing is, um, when Mother and Daddy had this little farm, and they're working, and they, the church members would come and say, Mr. and Mrs. Murakami, um, would you like to donate something for, uh, whatever fun? And my father and mother never denied them. They were so, they gave so much to them. They never held, uh, anything against them. And, um, that's how my, how my mother and Daddy were, you know? It's just a sad affair. When you came back after the war, how did you get along with the people on the, on the island? The, uh, the white people who'd stayed here?

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And, uh, when we come back here, only two people come to see us. Uh, Mrs. Beech, Mr. and Mrs. Beech. He come to see us. He bring one chocolate box. But another one who was, oh, Mrs., uh, I forgot that. Oh, Mrs. Beech's mother. She bring us, uh, lemon cake and lemon pie. And another one, Harry Nune. Mm-hmm. He bring us, uh, buckets full of fruit. And I never see, and other people never, never come to see us. They had, yeah. We come back here, and, uh, Rose and Mary was a high school, you see. They said, we are very, very poor people, they saw. You know, everybody said, are you coming, uh, babysit class, or coming, uh, household class? I said, no. My kids never go work. Yeah, let's talk about the, my sisters. When they went to university and got their degrees, my sister Rose, who is the vice president at the university, UBC hospital now? We are. She went to this hospital to ask for a job as an RN. And one of the board members says, we don't hire jobs at this hospital. Really? What year would that be? That seems like it. No. U56. And then my sister, she got a degree in education, and she tried to get a job at this school. Yeah. The school that my parents and everybody had donated to. And they said, no, we don't want a job teaching our children. So, they never got a job.

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And there you are, these people who were on the board, school board, or the hospital board, that's what happened. But then again, you look back and say, oh, you were really angry. And you say, well, too bad for you. They could have given so much to the community, you know. Oh, I've certainly heard myself. I've heard it said on this coast, that what happened to the Japanese here has been one of the biggest problems in the economy of BC. But that's part of the reason for the discrimination, is that the Japanese have worked so hard and did so well. Yeah. I mean, a lot of it's just simple jealousy. It is. Economics. Yeah. They wanted, the fishermen wanted to get us out of here, too. You know, the fishing union. That's right. Yeah. And all these farmers wanted to get rid of them. But even now, you can see the backlash. Like, Japan is doing so well. And so the jealousy arises. That's right. And they put us into the same category as the foreign Japanese. That's right. Yeah. You see? So it's a never-ending affair. It really is. Yeah. And I just hope that things would get better, but I don't believe it will. When you, you must have been in school for quite a few years before the war. Yeah. I was, yeah. Which school did you go to? I was going here. The Ganges? Well, I used to go to the Catholic school, I mean the Catholic church up there. Oh, yeah. I used to walk from way over a sharp road. Right. And I went up, I had to go up there. And that, is that where the Ganges school was then? Yeah, you know where the Catholic church is. Right? Behind the bakery. Oh, yeah. Right up there. That's the school. Then this new school. You never go. I went a year.

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A year. Just a year here. But, yeah, I always think about going to school and having to survive all my taunts. People, kids taunting me. Yeah. Growing up. Were there other Japanese children in the school? There were quite a few families here. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But we were really taunted. Every day, taunted. And then what I recall very vividly is one time my lunch was stolen by this boy and a girl. And so I went to see this teacher of mine. And so what he did to me is in front of the whole class, because you see, they didn't have grade one teacher or grade two teacher. It was from grade five to eight, I think. Yeah. He said, I talked to this boy and girl and they said, you're lying, Alice, that they didn't take your lunch. You're the liar. And I was really punished. And I will never forget that, ever. You know? So, cause, talking about justice, that's why I'm so belligerent and radical. And I said, you know, even at that time, people weren't fair. So if you grow up being pushed around, you have to be pushed around. Excuse me. I wanted to ask you a little bit more about, about your parents. What, they came, they came to Salt Spring, right, when, when you were? Yeah, 19, 19, 20, January 6th, we came here. And what, did they, did they live long after that? Or were they, how long were they on Salt Spring?

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Oh, since we came here, 19, 19, January, the government takes them out. So they... My grandfather went to, went through all that stuff we went through, and they... Were you together with them? No, no, no, no, no, no. They separate everybody, no, no compassion, nothing. Anyways, my grandfather ended up in Cardston, with grandmother, and my uncle Jim, and the others. They were doing the restaurant, and I told you they went into financial bind, you know. And my grandfather actually died of a broken heart. He lost all that land here, you know. And he died in Cardston. And my grandmother became bedridden soon after. And my mother... I don't care. Yeah, seven years. For about ten years. Ten years. So you brought her back here? He brought her back, and he, she died in 57. Oh, that crazy brother told me, I gonna take care of my mother. So, he took everything from mother. They never take care. Oh dear. Yeah. But anyway, he died out here. Oh dear. One more brother's in Victoria, but I don't know. Yeah, but they had greenhouses down in the valley there. How many greenhouses? My father built that. 180 by 300. Big greenhouse. 180 by... What kind of, what kind of things did they grow? Tomatoes. They used to ship them. They used to ship them. They used to ship them. 180 by 300. Yeah, that's huge. Yeah. Um, see, Mr. Hunt lives on the property where my grandfather and grandmother lived.

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Mm-hmm. And, um, they went and named that creek, Ocano Creek, last year. And Mr. Hunt was telling me that when they bought that property, they found so much glass in the creek and he couldn't understand where the glass came from. So what they had done was battered the greenhouses and dumped, bulldozed all the glass into that Ocano Creek. It's named Ocano Creek. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's in the, uh, government archives now because that's what they did. Yeah. Recently. Yeah. But, um, they used to ship their tomatoes to Vancouver on that, uh, Princess Marguerite, I think they used to come there. Mm-hmm. Joan? Pardon? The Princess Joan? No. I think it was Marguerite, wasn't it? Was it? Mother? I don't know. It was like a freighter, passenger. Yeah. Yeah. Big, big boat. Was that Marguerite or Louise? Yeah. Used to come there. You know, Main Island. Yeah, I remember. I can't remember the name. Main Island's 12 people doing greenhouses. Same as my father. Yeah. On the Main Island, there were Japanese. Yeah. I've heard that there was a very prosperous Japanese community there. Yeah. So they hate Gabby most. You know, he was a custodian, you know. Mm-hmm. So there's... We always talk about the... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, custodians, they were so mad. Yeah. But the thing is, he was a young man a long time ago, and he used to do logging and stuff, things like that, and he was supposed to be a good family friend of Mom and Dad. So? Yeah. He said, that time, I couldn't picture him.

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He put his arm around my mother and said, Kimiko, when you come back, don't worry. Everything will be here. Not even one pair of chopsticks will be gone. When I said that, I think his son was quite offended, you know, because there was so much animosity I had against him. Because he let Mom down and the rest of the people down. He really did. Yeah. Did you and your husband, when you came back, did you work farming? Yes. What did you grow? This is the place. So, you can't... Was it vegetables and berries, or...? Yeah. We had about the strawberry and the raspberry, this bill, and we have asparagus, too. Asparagus. And boysenberries. And they had a little, like a truck farm. They sold everything. Yeah. And... Where did you sell to? Everybody used to come here. Everybody used to come here. Yeah. They like my vegetables. So they so miss us. Yeah. There wasn't any farmers market, or... The produce at the stores were really bad. Yeah. So mother and dad used to have regular customers. So you didn't, after the war, you didn't ship, like, to Vancouver. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And they sold everything. And... Where did you sell to? Everybody used to come here. Everybody used to come here. Yeah. They like my vegetables. So they so miss us. Yeah. There wasn't any farmers market, or... The produce at the stores were really bad. Yeah. So mother and dad used to have regular customers. Mm-hmm. And... So you didn't... After the war, you didn't ship, like, to... To Vancouver, or... Oh, yes. They did. Just Victoria, you see. That's strawberry, you know, berry. And raspberries. And raspberries. We did. On the island freight. Yeah. The island freight. Yeah. The island freight. Yeah. Yeah. This is my... My land. My soil is a very good one. One time, three agriculture people come here to test all the soil, you know, source spring. Mm-hmm. They said that this is the best soil in the island. Oh, really? Well, that's...

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So people want to buy my soil, you know. They said, why don't you put a little bag, you know? But two dollars, they said, why don't you sell a two dollar little bag? I said, no, I don't want to sell soil. Yeah. No, I think... Oh, Premier Bennett. Not the young Bennett, but the older Bennett used to come here because... Yeah. Many times he'd come. Look around my garden with my husband. Oh, he's so pleased to see. He was really friendly and he used to come here because he had a summer home on this island. Who he is? And Mr. James' daughter was married to... I think, um... He's actually married to young... Bennett. Bennett. Yeah. So that's why he used to come. But, um... Yeah, the old man, Bennett, he'd always come to see at my farm. Yeah. So, actually, um, as I was telling you, there's a lot of prominent people who know the Murakamis. So, if they happen to be in Victoria, Vancouver, they always come to see Mom. Really? They really do. My friend is all rich people. Well, you're lucky. Yeah. Yeah, they're very... Well, because they're not... No, it isn't because they're rich, they're nice mother, they're very nice people. I have lots of friends in Maracaibo, all over... You know the Maracaibos? Yes. They know Mother really well. And, uh, people from Beringham, Seattle, all over, you know, they come by boat. Oh, yeah. Always come up with you. When Mother appeared on the national television, her friends throughout Canada saw Mother, and they all wrote to her, and called her, and said, hey Kimi, we saw you. You're famous, didn't they? Yeah.

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Pretty soon, that's a long film. They took our 60th anniversary, that's the United Church. We invite everybody to open house. Oh, lovely. Well, I'd just like to say thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. I think she did. She said she was here yesterday. So, what were you telling me about the tinned... The tinned house right now? I'm gonna keep naming the Popono. Almost. I know. I'm leaving there. I'm leaving there. I'm leaving there. I'm leaving there. I'm leaving there. She has to get very much to put the money in there. OK. You know how much? They're very lovely. I had to come back for some more. What were you telling me about the tinned, the tinned house? Right now. I want to keep naming that. Copono or something. He used to be a highway, you know. He retired three, four years ago. His wife had all kinds of, what do you call it? What do you call that, the ground thing all over there? Moles or freckles? No, no, not the feckles. That's a little thing you did. Yeah? Yeah, that's my Japanese family dig over there and doing a chicken farm. Oh really? On the Bullock property there? Yeah. I know that there were two or three, well, there were about three old buildings there. By the road, you could see roof, because tinned roof, you know, rusting. So, yeah. So you, some of your family used to live there and work? No, no, no. My family never rent the house or anything.

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Yeah, you would. No. So, um, what, uh… That, you know, Mr. Burock's lake. Yeah. That's a five-acre lake, you know. Really? Yeah. And Mr. Burock told me, all kinds of trout and, and he had a nice cherry, bean cherry all over the, you know. Yeah, they're still there. Still? Yeah. And he always, why did you come and get the, you know, so we always go over there. And he had a nice chestnut tree, great big chestnut tree. Oh really? Where? I don't know. There's a Mr. Palmer used to take care of works property. Mr. Palmer, that's right. I know Irene Palmer. Yeah, yeah. But he died a long time going. His wife fought property at St. May Lake, by the St. May Lake Lake. When you go down to Cornwood, uh, left-hand side. Oh yeah. But, uh, I heard the other day, Norman Mort come to see her. He said, she's in the Greenwood about eight years ago. She is. I went to see her last week. Because we live in the house where she used to live. And I want to know, you don't know when that was built, do you? I don't know, but, uh, too bad Mr. Burock's house burned down. Oh, that was… That's the English style, you know. I've seen photographs. Yeah. Then, uh, that chestnut tree. And, uh, chestnuts, uh, two, three Japanese old people, you know, men, working there. Very big chestnut. So there is no good mother. Huh? They bought, they, evening, they bring me a pocket of chestnuts. Oh. And that chestnut, my mother, plant in, uh, that's, uh, down Chappell. Uh-huh. She plant that in 1923. Uh-huh. Crazy.

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Crazy. Now. Oh, wonderful. But it's dying. Oh, dear. Yeah. I wonder why? I don't know. Last year we planted maple down there, because, uh, the Okano Creek, you know. Mm-hmm. So, so, so, so, so, so, so. You know that Bruce Bay? Yes. We call it Okano Bay. Oh. Yeah. That's good. Oh, you were telling her about those little things? Oh, Okano Bay. She's telling me about Mr. Bullock. We live on part of that property now. Oh, yeah. That's an old family, too. That's right. Mr. Bullock is a dear gentleman. He had a brand new Ford, you know. And he never drive faster, just like walking. Oh, so. He's a nice man. I've heard, I've heard people say how generous he was. Yeah. And how kind he was to people. You know, um, not only about the Japanese family. You should have Mother talk about the other old timers. She knows all these old people. Oh. You know, old timers. Yeah. Like Mr. Bullock and different places and people. And, um, did you tell her you're the first woman to drive that Model T? Yeah. Oh, really? No. That was, what year was it, Mother? I think 1923. On this island. They didn't have that many good roads, did they? Yeah. Yeah. That time, most of the people have a wagon and a buggy. Uh-huh. So, I got a brand new, three-quarter time, the Ford. Oh, really? And I drive so fast, everybody's scared. My amazing name is, uh, Ocano, see? Oh, here comes Miss Ocano. Oh, everybody. I drive so fast. Oh, dear. I heard that some of the people didn't like to have the cars. When the cars first came to the island, people thought that was a terrible thing.

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Oh, yeah. Now, that time, people from, I think, I forgot the name. They used to live, uh, Long Harbor. Oh, yeah. Very, very wealthy people. They have a very nice car. That's what I remember. Then I bought, I saw the drive, and one of, uh, male, male delivery ladies, he's a heavy Indian or so. She said, you could drive a car. I could. So she bought the old, old car, you know? Was this Bob Ackerman? No. Did she say no? No, no, no. I don't know. You sit down and I just thought. Hmm. I don't know. No, I don't know. I don't know. It's all white today. That's lovely. What? I don't keep telling her. What? What? My baby grass. There. Where is it? There it is. Oh, there it is. I didn't see. This was so nice. Did you tell the lady how you were a fisherman and you know all the reefs where all the fish are around this island? Yeah. Well, no, you didn't, but you told me your parents fished around here and you used to go on the fishing boats? Yeah. Did the whole family go? No, not, you know, my father bought that property. I have a sick sister and a small sister and brother. So I have to help, you know, father. Yeah, I don't. I never go to school very much, so I can't speak very well, so. Oh. You do great. That's good. Going to school, that educates together. You're so knowledgeable. Too bad, too bad. That's right. That's why I'm here, learning from you.

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I went to Japan, so I learned a little bit Japanese, so I could write. I could talk, so. Other people come from Japan and, gee, your job is so good, better than us. Oh, really? Yeah. Did you know that I was telling you about the cemetery? Yeah. My mother's little, is it brother that fell off the fishing boat and died? She stood there. Oh. Her grave is in Vancouver. I know mother, but they wouldn't let her be buried here at that time. What year would that be? Long time ago, anyways. Yeah. See, so she's... And then, I want to tell you something. It has nothing to do with this island. Okay. But it has to do with the cemetery. Yeah. Yeah. The cemetery in Shimanos, where all the Japanese were buried, it was bulldozed over. Did you know that during the war? Yeah. And everything was a bit gone. You know, you couldn't even find out where people were buried. And it so happened that one of the churches used that cemetery as a parking lot. They needed some gravel as a fill-in. And they found all these tombstones way in the side. They found a fight. Yeah. And so there was, there's an investigation, you know, about that. Going on now? Yeah. Yeah. They're going to try to put a monument up, you see. Yeah. And one of my mother's... Your brother. Oh, my brother. No, not my brother. Oh, my brother. His brother was buried there, you see. So they can't find where his grave is, because that's what they bulldozed it.

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Now, can you imagine, say for instance, with my, say, in my anger, I...