Salt Spring Island Archives
| Accession Number | |||
| Date | 15 February 2020 | ||
| Media | digital recording | Audio | mp3 √ |
| duration | 96 minutes |
429_Kate-Roland_Hawaiian-FN-Ancestry-Roland-Dictionary_15.02.2020.mp3
otter.ai
11.03.2024
no
Outline
Unknown Speaker 0:01
Yeah, I see the little signal and
Speaker 1 0:03
it's going VU meters going one little more bass. So I think that's all there is to it.
Speaker 2 0:10
Okay, cool. So we're here with Li and K. And we're going to talk about words. We have the Roland dictionary.
Speaker 1 0:21
Where the heck is that? Oh, no, no, Chris did send this. Did you get this? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 0:26
we could look at that later. i Yeah, we could clarify some of
Speaker 1 0:29
the things that she wanted to clarify. We can fix that up. Okay, because he did mention the book of words.
Speaker 2 0:37
Yeah. And I think this was the perfect thing to start with. It's very local. And, like you say, it's a mixture of all kinds of things. I'm curious about the sales stuff. So what I want to do is, you know, prepare these words to generic dictionaries and sales funnels, because I think there's some Salish in there, like local Salish, as opposed to Chinook Salish,
Speaker 1 1:00
we find, yes, there has to be out. And I searched for
Speaker 2 1:12
our word to Adobe into an interview at some point down the road.
Speaker 1 1:18
Your brother? Yeah, yeah, he's, he's, he's most interested. But everything hinges on his health. Yeah. Like he gets off his dialysis like he's dials a Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Wow. So he might get off Wednesday, and come to Saltspring things. He feels good. And then Thursday, he's just like, so. So here is the dictionary. Okay. I tried to print this on these things. We didn't cook our next. So I started I started tried to divide them into what I thought was Hawaiian and chinook and an Indian cool. And then I'm gonna this one was definitely in the Chinook dictionary. Now. You said you have the Chinook dictionary? I
Speaker 2 2:02
have one. Okay. I don't know how good it is just sort of one this one this 168 or something might be a good one. Yeah. Do you have it?
Speaker 1 2:11
It was a client of mine. As a matter of fact, First Nations in Victoria and I was talking about the clinic. Well, I got in the car and I said, Oh, my grandfather used to say that. And I was ill. He said as Shinnok he says he gave me this little books, but this big. And it's the dictionary of the schmuck language. So he loaned it to me and I scanned the whole thing. Nice. You
Speaker 2 2:34
should get that in the archives. Yeah, have you actually been good referencing you know, when we put all this together, that would be a good appendix.
Speaker 1 2:41
Because I scanned it page by page. That thing was so delicate. I was so scared that I was gonna go I know. So I just scanned it and just put it back and gave it back to him. So it scan page by page, so I guess we could probably print it.
Speaker 2 2:54
That's cool. Awesome. Look down. You can succeed. I'll show you. Okay, so that's okay. On a not so
Speaker 1 3:02
John's definition of it was it hurts like when your back leg legs ache. But in the in the in the dictionary, it said expressing pain. So that's exactly what it is.
Unknown Speaker 3:17
And what's the sentence?
Speaker 1 3:18
I'm an I'm an aqueous dish. Uncle Paul. Well, I guess dad, all the old folks said that they added that aqueous dish. And I don't know what that is. That sounds Indian to me. Yeah, Anna Ma, was Shinnok. And they repeated it twice. on a on a map, acquisti everything that three times and then to aqueous dish. And I've made up that spelling. That's phonetically
Speaker 2 3:47
Yeah. Well, I've got a really good hope communion dictionary and a synth shotgun one, like really good ones. Like the lip.
Speaker 1 3:55
Yeah, because it might be something like that. You know, they they they pronounce things a little different. Sometimes they
Speaker 2 4:02
would ever use that ending in any other expressions.
Unknown Speaker 4:06
Not that I heard just just that one.
Unknown Speaker 4:08
So that's some Yeah, that's cool. Okay, excellent.
Unknown Speaker 4:11
Ask the Dastur it was from a song you said it was the
Speaker 3 4:17
biggest ask Podesta in the world is a plant it was a English people kept these host plants and that that the song was about the bass it as Podesta it's Aspen estra.
Speaker 1 4:31
That was just something What did they use that? When would they use that?
Speaker 3 4:36
They didn't. They weren't using it. to reference a plant at all. How did they use it? I think they concentrated on the ass part of the word. Okay, so that's a rule
Speaker 2 4:50
that Esther gave us sort of a pejorative word for certain class. I don't know. Now you have people who would have these plants?
Speaker 3 4:58
Yeah, I'm just wondering No, they didn't know that it was a plant. Oh, just use the word
Unknown Speaker 5:07
childish, these old folks for childish.
Unknown Speaker 5:11
We've come so far. Oh wait, there's a good Maori expression.
Speaker 1 5:15
And that's, that's straight out of the Maori, Hawaiian. And that's exactly the same as on on na. And they used to say those together all the time to Oh, wait. You said Well, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 5:29
So all the old people in your family they use these all the time. Oh, yes.
Speaker 1 5:31
Just we grew up with those. Yeah, Timnath is I understand is that's how they used it as teaching us where I found these. I don't know. Jack, those pronunciations. I might have found
Unknown Speaker 5:49
them for the same word. Yes.
Speaker 1 5:50
I Chyna. We use it as Archana. And the minute I understand is why an aka my because I understand.
Unknown Speaker 5:58
Did you Did they use this expression?
Speaker 1 6:02
Yeah, yeah. Not as much as achiness aka my cool. Asha, I'll look at Nahoon that was from my cousin, Katie's father, Charlie. Simon journey. He would yell at them says, Oh, shucks, you got no ears. Or you're not listening.
Speaker 2 6:23
That seems How come you know? That? Definitely. Yeah. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1 6:26
that definitely is nice. Our family didn't lose that. That was hers. And after we saw the word Poon con, and she's that means ear. And Uncle Paul used to as the kids he, he taught her is a corner, corner corner corner. So he put an ER on the corner. Nice. He's talking about our ears.
Speaker 2 6:46
That's a beautiful combination of this Salish, sort of Hawaiian understanding
Speaker 1 6:51
or copom de that's, that's that's brothers. One of his. One of his friends he was was who was Carlson easy, an Englishman, he was Australian, Australian. And John was telling him how the Hawaiians had killed Captain Cook on Valentine's Day. Got them in the head with a rock and killed him. So the Australian guys Rennes is on the brickton. Right, Paul? Yeah, right. They speak upon they actually I got I got a text from John yesterday saying Happy bullhead that's just you know, I think lots of people call their their kids Bullheads Oh, you're bullhead or maybe that's a it's a thing on us. We call the Kool Aid. We didn't pronounce it bull. It was bullied. And it's John's definition. The first step. He was a touch hole relative of the codfish The second was a person stubborn enough to give a dog and the third was Tony, our nephew Tony. They called him bullhead. That was his nickname. We haven't got him in names.
Speaker 3 7:59
Oh, he's got fewer. Guys.
Unknown Speaker 8:03
You got dibs on something. Booker. J sat at the front seat in the car.
Speaker 2 8:08
I've never heard that. Roll, roll rolling. It's a French word. Oh. Really? So it was a common income use when you guys are done?
Unknown Speaker 8:19
Well yeah, we still use that one. French
Unknown Speaker 8:22
any idea what it is?
Unknown Speaker 8:25
does it really mean
Speaker 3 8:26
I believe it really means that we should be I wonder how
Unknown Speaker 8:29
it's spelled be all you
Speaker 1 8:37
guys couldn't couldn't pronounce relationship Okay. Cod salmon. They often called count because it was rare legged species last seen jumping. This brother John. Yes. He was a little
Speaker 3 8:54
boy. He was always watching for fish to jump in the harbor because the head fisherman Yeah. And John said he saw cod salmon. We never forgot that because it wasn't the gods the jump and there's no such thing as
Speaker 1 9:09
a card or salmon. Come down in the shape of the horned owl. That was Mother. It was the same thing. Every time something exasperated her. Oh, come down in the shape of a Horned Owl and take me the hell out of here. We're gonna get good expression. I don't know that is one of those things that she said all the time. We knew exactly what she meant. Well, she were to come. She was
Speaker 3 9:32
raised by those those two old Auntie's. They weren't really her aunties. They raised her. And they were they were both part Indian. One said she was also some Spanish ones and she was French. But they taught them to cook English very English. So it's probably something she learned
Speaker 1 9:51
for both married Englishmen. Did they know maybe it was something Cultus that's readable, that you know, this thing. And with us it was used repeated three times Uncle Paul, he'd shake his head. Cold. Cultures is bad, worthless, nothing is when you were being stupid. You know if you just did something, I've told you what he called the skeleton. Yeah, and John's definition was that rare combination of stupidity and ignorance often displayed by remittance men and upcountry Indians. So when you just mean
Speaker 2 10:34
this is great to have the context of all these people use it
Speaker 1 10:38
in the call to Lima Park Max, I'm sorry Cultus the definition in the shoe look what was this when I had that? It's bad worthless. Nothing broken. Unworthy can also mean evil. Hmm, so that's in the dictionary though. Yeah. And called the schema and Colima and practices means dirty now what did you think it meant? I thought it meant white person Yeah, because the definition that we came up with a stupid difficult or hard to learn white
Speaker 2 11:13
key Lima Lima that's interesting word for white man to be could be Selenium or honey them be creamer Kaleena
Speaker 1 11:23
and I could have easily been a Roland ism. Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah, in the in the dictionary, it's steel. Or can also mean stealthy, illicit crooked. That sort of thing. CloudWatch cops want to go cautiously or to travel secretly? That was the definition in the book. We used it as they were dead. Yes, it had died. The cups wallet. And that could have just been the wrong definition on word that they used
Unknown Speaker 12:03
could tell you maybe a Hawaiian word.
Speaker 1 12:05
It could be but I don't I don't know.
Unknown Speaker 12:10
Find out dinghy. That's
Speaker 1 12:11
that's just a silly. Dismiss. That's Oh, Jack. That's chakra salt chuck or big Chuck. Chuck it's all all to deal water. Yeah. Although it doesn't I don't think it deals with rain. Rain is math. Okay. And I asked sister I asked you the other day. Uncle Paul we use that is in the rain. But all the chucks Yeah, Chuck water or liquids?
Speaker 2 12:41
That's the one I grew up with. Yeah. And people today.
Speaker 1 12:45
Chuck Skookum. Chuck, big water rapids. So the all of those are in there.
Speaker 2 12:53
So just be very common everyday expression. Right?
Speaker 1 12:57
Right. And still use today by not just a few people that love the chuck Dini, that's that's just that's what you are if you get into a rowboat with Stephen to was a nickname for one of our neighbors Wally of acido and he was a huge man. Huge man. And him and dad were like, best best friends. And Wally Lasseter, I think at one time because he was the only car it was a had a vehicle he had to be truck it was a Ford
Speaker 3 13:31
truck in the cab was wood. Yeah. He had to crank it over and
Speaker 1 13:36
get over had to get to an appointment. You had to get to Ganges or to a doctor or something. He he was the one you call and he would get you there but you could hear that car coming from way at the Fulford billboard in or where Fulford in use to stand and that's about two miles from our house and to get your copy sorry, and as it came up, Isabelle co wrote and turned on the rolling road like lewd struggling CARS COMING everybody run out into the yard to the car to the FBI, and he he'd come by he'd slow right down to as he was gonna drive by our host and go by and he'd be wave and indeed all the elegance that he did. And dad with this Nick danger he'd start as soon as he could see the spread in the truck. Turner rally when they were best friends, but that happened to be his nickname. We took a we brought up a list of the nicknames everyone down that no one had a nickname. I think we hung on them as a family so it's sort of a family. You want to say something about the truck. Oh, it had a on the dashboard and had two levers out this long and you had to set them and then go around To the front and crank it. Oh, awesome. Yeah. needles. I
Speaker 2 15:04
think they call Yeah. Oh, that's all tiny. It
Speaker 3 15:07
was it was their 30s Vintage truck is a Ford with the was blue, dark blue. And the cab was mostly wood. Yeah. You let us get sauce they were playing
Speaker 1 15:21
epi to those were neighbors. That was you know, Norman tois Yeah. His mother. Oh Fe do because it was F fe. Well, I don't know what her name would have been Fe Heffelfinger Fe I don't know that was short for they call her Fe Fe tois. We call her Fe two. And then it has her son ears. Robbie's now these oils are bacon's best. asbestos was normal.
Unknown Speaker 15:46
It was a little boy
Speaker 1 15:47
easterton de la la la la buta was that her it's straight there. Oh no, it's just the next in the ease. Easter the DB lalalala buta now I don't know if that is Indian or Hawaiian or something they made up but he's doing it he was these de de de de la Nana. So pick your ear. Yes. Did it Ed then you cheek La la la la. And then snap your nose book that was just something for the little kids and babies. Easy tangled as mother to be careful. Fake glue. That is that I said because any that doesn't work with and then the next is the facility. The generic knee with any tool you can't find. So if you're working in the past me that that Zuni boy, you go this one. The other you know because again, as an Gant with hunger when you're angry. Your backbone is robbing and calling your belly gate bosses that was clothing like if you're good dad, but they were all big man and stuff. So they put their shirts on.
Speaker 2 16:59
Oh, yeah. And the buttons. get posted. See? That sounds like crap. Oh, like coat? Yeah, shut up, cow. I don't know. Moses. Okay. Pulsus
Speaker 1 17:13
HIPAA that was a nickname for our neighbor Claude Hamilton. And he was rather up and this is her nickname to grinning beat her ass Andy. Beatrice Hamilton. Yeah.
Speaker 3 17:25
So she's writing the Sydney review. Yeah,
Speaker 1 17:29
that was their had their nickname for her beat her ass anything. And her brother was Claude and we called him HIPAA because he was deaf mute. And the only sound that ever came out was HIPAA. HIPAA. Just what he should have called you. And then he would make hand motions like he seen a deer down the road, you know? Wow. So we could communicate with them. But that was the only sound you ever heard. So he could make that
Speaker 3 17:53
he could take a stick and right on the right on the Yeah, in the dirt on the road. That
Unknown Speaker 17:57
was his nickname. That sounds
Speaker 2 18:00
like he put which is like a deer or hippo. There's it that's there's an even word for deer that's very similar to that. I mean, I don't know. Because when he said the thing, he
Speaker 1 18:10
was often telling us that he'd seen a deer. Oh, so he would yell at him. This is your lucky man. He used to do a sign language, which was not the line from which they have today. But he had letters he spelled out and he spelled each letter in the word.
Unknown Speaker 18:27
Wow. Just his own system. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 18:29
Ai Oh, when you read the five vowels.
Speaker 3 18:33
There was a large family, remittance people. And they will all practically all definitely. We
Speaker 1 18:41
all had had disabilities. Except for Mabel. Mabel was one of the older sisters. Mabel Hamilton. Ben she married a man in a wheelchair. Was the ball wall? Oh, yes. Oh, Alan. Alright. Good. Gave us. I don't remember last name was Davis. The Boer War veteran. Yes. He always talks about the ball. Yeah, so they really came named in the Boer War.
Speaker 2 19:15
So the Hamiltons? Do you remember I weren't involved in spiritualism or something. Some
Unknown Speaker 19:22
that I know Yeah. I just
Speaker 2 19:23
heard that. Sorry. From somewhere. They were big family. Yeah. And she wrote the history that history right? Yes. See?
Speaker 1 19:30
Yes. And she remember her. She remember conversations with her father, with our William now. Wow. So some of the stories she wrote were his reminiscences because we never knew Willie Malcolm. He died in 1909 Uncle Paul, who was really our sort of historian if you will. wasn't even born till 1950 So he never knew his grandfather
Speaker 2 19:57
just know stories about right Wow
Speaker 1 20:02
Hi mucky muck that was a big shot that's great actually I don't know why I don't have it in blue that's that's definitely Chinook. Yeah I'm lucky boy now in the in the show look at why and how they would pronounce it I don't know we always use the word boy boy spent we still say that when someone comes in John would come to visit as he opened the door we'd all say white but we still do and in there things that means it's a bargain or to do business with the old guy that used to come out roll across the harbor now Chris is notes asked about him Yeah, we called it some Charlie and his wife Kamal cuz I think was a nickname.
Unknown Speaker 20:49
We think it was somebody
Unknown Speaker 20:53
is an octopus with devils. And I think it was just a nickname for her. I can't imagine. It was not a very attractive woman.
Speaker 2 21:05
I have their Indian names. Okay, because I got those from Arvin. Charlie. Okay.
Speaker 1 21:09
Well, he used to got us guys going across the harbor. He looked great in the Indian reserve, and it's directly across from our house. And he stood on the bow of his boat, I think. And with or without grandpa anyway, he would come across and he always yelled when he got close, Koi squealing no klahowya tillikum. And so he had other words in there that we've tried to figure out and we've all heard it differently. similar, but not quite the same. And using the general dictionary, I've tried to figure out what it is and how you Calum Tux we used to say hi, you clump that's not how you is big or many kilometers tax is wrong as far as the schindl dictionary they either have come tax so that's easily mispronounced to know or understand the KU MT UX down down. But that's where liking and reading
Speaker 2 22:13
just to getting back to the the native guy from the desert. Do there's a lot of stories about what happened to those people. whatsoever. I
Speaker 1 22:21
heard they got murdered over there. And they didn't really know what had happened to them. killed
Speaker 2 22:28
on the reserve. Yes, right there. Apparently there was a story the same story,
Speaker 1 22:32
same story story that he had a lot of money or gold or something something valuable hidden there. And someone went to claim it and killed him. It's a story I have
Unknown Speaker 22:43
no one's there since no one's lived there since
Speaker 1 22:46
the Indians used to come over from down from well, that little reserve is shared by the couch humans in the surplus bread salad, or one of the Bretton Woods is over on the Saanich Peninsula Anyway, okay, shared, and they used to come in. Now this is this is a story I had heard. They would come in and set up and be there all weekend. Drumming Yeah,
Speaker 3 23:14
I remember them doing that. The first time I saw a canoe with that outboard on the back there, they would come in the harbor and anchor wrote or put the boats up on the beach and put up tents and drum and sing.
Speaker 2 23:29
Interesting and youth you think they may have been from Brentwood? Well, like this, it'd be interesting to see if you can recall where they
Speaker 3 23:38
were when the word allowed to camp over there anymore. And they viewed David or John. We wanted to find out who owned that and ask if the people who lived near it had permission to put up sign saying we couldn't. There was no camping there. And it was the Bretton Woods for sure. And another
Speaker 1 23:59
I think if the college didn't tell us because they share this
Speaker 3 24:05
with their neighbors pretty much so. Yeah. So they weren't allowed to camp over there anymore, which we did. Year after year family camp, sometimes it'd be 25 of us or more. Wow, counting and Chuck Charlie bay that's on that. Well, if you're on the ferry and you see skull islands behind it, there's a nice Shell Beach
Speaker 2 24:27
so that on the right, like save you looking at the little beach wasn't even that between Johnny Charlie's Bay. So that's the the bay on the right. So I'd say if you're coming in if you're
Speaker 3 24:38
coming in, yeah, there's the rocks and behind it on the right. Yes. That's
Speaker 2 24:44
okay. The right that long sort of singly nice beach. Yeah.
Speaker 3 24:47
Okay. And there was a that's there was a cabin up in the woods there. Not too far in where they apparently lived. Yeah, they're there. John John. easiest
Speaker 1 25:00
to learn. Yeah, totally unaccountable.
Speaker 2 25:03
You've probably seen the there was an old picture that we have a couple of showing the longhouse like they had a big long house right on that raised area, which is all good. And that's about two or three meters a minute. Yeah. Like people probably lived there for about 3000 years, I think because they found artifacts that are up 3000 years old. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 25:20
Yeah.
Speaker 1 25:23
Cool. Just from Canada over there. Just run my fingers through the sand.
Speaker 2 25:26
Yeah, my kids Trump's a blue trade detailer.
Speaker 3 25:31
Oh, gee, I never found any of those cousin. Bill Lumley has got a whole necklace of trade beads that he's found up and down the coast. Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1 25:42
I have one trade bead, but it wasn't found here. It was given to me by Coxy Stalin. Adam deke. He's from he's born up in Kingdom in lift, but he lived most of his life at Qualcomm. Okay,
Speaker 2 25:57
that's interesting. I just want to get back to the reserved the camping so it used to camp there all the time. Then someone put up signs
Unknown Speaker 26:03
that was only in the last 10 years. Okay, that was
Speaker 2 26:05
recently Yeah, since I've been here, I think yeah, recolonise people
Speaker 3 26:10
started some of them have built their houses right on the edge of reserve and it's a small small reserve. It's just it's a rock pile basically. Yeah. And so as soon as they started camping like right there I mean, they were not much further from here to people there sorry. Yeah. And so we would camp there in the summer for for a long weekend. And of course we sing and carry on and they didn't like it. We would also build the fire Yeah, right down by the water. Anyways, they found out who owned it and got him to put up the sign no camping there's still people run around in the nude down there but they're allowed to do
Speaker 1 26:59
that a lot of younger folks in the last few years show up down there maybe we're working with be any time during the week they run around and they're needed entity and they bang on drum calm calm so I can see how it is pretty annoying. And it but the David Read the day was just incensed when they say we couldn't camp there any
Unknown Speaker 27:21
Yeah, really? What do you
Unknown Speaker 27:25
think you're ever peed up his face and go put a roadblock before
Speaker 3 27:33
he said that the cops used to see this. It ain't a tan. Oh, you man. I used to follow them up. And there was somebody who, who was living on Bristol Island at that time. Anyways, we wrote over there one day we were talking to him and he said, Oh, you guys can camp here because it was really a nice area right on this end of the island. So I'd filling up David, I'd say Dave, I got two things to say to you. Russell Island
Speaker 2 28:10
says like everywhere else in the places just get alienated more people come. I mean, yeah. So yeah, we got sidetracked there, but that was a good sidetrack on the story of the reserve. And we have all these things out.
Unknown Speaker 28:25
skeleton bones on those islands.
Unknown Speaker 28:27
You've never seen those. No
Speaker 3 28:28
Dad did Oh, dad and my uncle finance did it. That's why we call them skull islands. Yeah, but on the charts. It's Jackson rocks. Trying
Unknown Speaker 28:38
to figure out who that was. Well,
Speaker 1 28:41
there's a quick way Scalia that's how we pronounced it and it's most likely Keenum
Speaker 2 28:46
oh yeah Oh, interesting. Yeah, I think you've got the correct pronunciation sorry to pick any you'd never get out of that. Like Hi hires Why have
Speaker 1 29:01
you been you know as as they hear in courses, cell phones yelling from the harbor up to the house you know, so for the distance and you can hear it so like what do you say no coilette
Speaker 2 29:15
And this word scam that sounds like cm which is like honorable person
Speaker 1 29:20
it does. And that that would easily I have it was high heist cm Oh, easily enough to say hoistway on Yeah. So that's that was my take on that. Man Is this how you many are lots Yeah, we use that a lot. How you and high gas is large. So how you is many, lots of and high us is big. You know highest to foods was cooler. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 29:50
Plus Plus was just your
Unknown Speaker 29:52
regular. Yeah. Big
Unknown Speaker 29:57
and the other big things higher Oh,
Speaker 1 30:00
anything anything? You know if it was nice tree pies for instead of just grabbing it they just oh hi us. So they were looking at the mountain
Unknown Speaker 30:10
yeah
Speaker 1 30:15
he always did to us he put his fingers behind your ears no idea what that's about. We put it in as our in our dictionary hum that's Chinuch
Speaker 2 30:27
so when he you what context we use that in just
Speaker 1 30:30
fooling around with us okay bouncing me on his knee and the Netherlands and that was that squirts clinked on this was your underwear illegal I don't know what that's about. I wish I did well this is something you throw in every now and then yeah, sir like an expression or something me I don't know. And I wouldn't know how to spell it so I just
Unknown Speaker 31:01
like said it. And the
Speaker 1 31:03
hum that's the word that people eat still use today. Oh that humming you know something that smells really bad huh? That's definitely it's you know can we use bad odor bad odor what's How many in here? We always use home something escapes and we still we still use today. I hula is Hawaiian And so John says long term nocturnal poor we've been safe if you've stolen it I grew up I was the nickname of Ken Downey senior ixnay is no and I that's that is Pig Latin. Yeah, just you know something no ixnay we've even got Pig Latin in there. We know for language
Speaker 1 32:01
try to get her to say banana biani was it is that is you know that we've always used that good good you pick up your actors it's time for software and that's your things. All this stuff is my this and in the dictionary was goods and can also be possessions so we have that together. And John's definition is what you gather together and put in your gun. Your column was like a knapsack on your back. So your things aches and boxed boxes probably downloaded those that's like counting and shimmer one and two. Okay, extend marks. And Uncle Paul used to play sort of a game kids game with as you eat let me muck up so he was making it rhyme. But he's just counting. Oh, wow. This one I have no idea where it came from. He's he used to chat to to us use as you go out in the woods and you find that the stump but three they've fallen off and it's hollow. All it is and it holds water. Okay. If you got a word on your hand, you stick your hand in that water you can Engineer Engineer
Speaker 3 33:19
water stuff want to hear these words and use it and they'll go away and they will if you really believe it. They do. So I don't know where that came from. But there it is. Maybe he made it up himself.
Unknown Speaker 33:33
In the days JMP. It might have been an old you know, remedy or something. It
Speaker 2 33:43
reminds me of like Cornish stuff. I mean, getting rid of words is dig in court and corner sort of craft traditions and the cutting folk in that and they very similar things like this. They have sort of a ritual and it was obviously way more about belief because there was nothing really in it that would physically take away words but they swear by it.
Unknown Speaker 34:04
There believe it's one of those things that you really believe it'll work.
Speaker 2 34:07
I mean, that's the basis of a lot of you know, natural healing.
Speaker 3 34:13
Shamans Yeah, Glory was told to take overdose on vitamin C and his words will go away when he was young boy and they went away.
Speaker 1 34:22
The JMP that was that was that was our dad. Dan. Remember the bnk? The KNR market? Yeah, okay in our market, things like that he could never get right. We'd say we're going to the KNR or he would tell you, Hey, are you going to the B and K? Girls are they okay? So he called it the JMP, the bn K, and it was actually the chaos supermarket. You know what I mean? Yeah, Jesus wept. mother's mother used to say that, you know, it's usually because you're being sent to bullying. If you report going around and doing stuff that you know. Oh hey, buoy bullhead
Speaker 2 35:05
Oh bullhead okay, we pronounced that one got it.
Speaker 1 35:08
So he broke something to purse or whatever he's just looking at Jesus wept it was just an exclamation I just like oh my I told you a jump high is that we call it a deer jump is pronounced Smith mA which and they also call it a hillside salmon that was a deer so they were good oh yeah no no hunting for a jump high or hillsides rarely came on at the end do
Unknown Speaker 35:48
pretty darn good know what they're doing?
Speaker 1 35:52
Come aka Cooley gun. That was Uncle Paul used to say that from time to time, so that was one something is not good. It's used like a recommend. Yeah. Is that Hawaiian? Yes, most definitely come up is the i coolly kind of weaker? I don't know. I'd have to look those up. And Cooley obviously is not spelled Hawaiian. I wrote this down phonetically because that's how you clearly and why would be k u. L. i Okay. Look, I want to see if I can pick a boy George's that was moonshine or you know your your homemade, which Oh, yeah, the rest of the hooch thinking fluid. Cutie pie. Now in there is a definition for that isn't there in the Shema book. Going down here, he didn't realize it. We always said and, and then we will say well, he's okay. Now he's died. You know? So it was if someone had passed away, you'd say he'd given pathway latch. So again, I just saw Oh, yeah, here it is. kilobyte there is kilobyte upset. Upset as injured, over etc also means changed, reversed or to go back. That's from the Chinook thing. So not quite what we were using it for?
Unknown Speaker 37:16
Sort of in there. Yeah.
Speaker 1 37:18
It's in general. Yeah. I think Uncle, uncles and Auntie's were good at. Like, they might have used it correctly a one time and then it would morph into this. Oh, well, we'll use it as this. Alright, so then it becomes then it becomes a roll into some
Unknown Speaker 37:37
local dialect. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 37:38
yeah. Kukai Nui
Unknown Speaker 37:40
that was good one.
Speaker 1 37:42
Yeah, the result of that we do miss Kickapoo. Yeah, if he's like, a big shot, cook, I knew how he telecom we use that a lot. Because that was what some Luke Charlie's do. Yeah. We knew that meant friend. Hello, friend. And then as I said, then the rescue fake glow. How you tell how you conduct contacts in September. That is a topic to go. David heard to PTO, you know, so they're all very similar. But again, being yelled from from the ocean up. Different ears.
Unknown Speaker 38:21
Yep. Different.
Speaker 1 38:21
Take on it. cleaner to hire tillikum. There's that contacts? Oh, yeah. Instead of jargon has word contacts. Understand? No feel believe think of. So if you're coming across Hello, friends, I believe. You know, where are you? Hi, you was many, many to No, I understand. I know. I've tried and tried to figure out where he was trying to say,
Speaker 2 38:51
you remember that word to your contacts? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 38:55
We still use we still
Speaker 3 38:56
enjoy. John comes. He always says boy. And I say how you come back. Because that was a greeting that our dad and uncle you
Speaker 1 39:07
walk up all the time. I never met from Charlie. He was dead long before. But they always spoke of him. He used to come across. He would come across with whatever he had clams or his fruit or something to do barter. And he would come over to pick berries. Oh, really? He would trade jams.
Unknown Speaker 39:28
So examined berries or slough salmon
Speaker 1 39:30
berries allow berries, blackberries, you know, whatever you didn't. There's not much on that reserve over there. Yeah, that's very dry and wrong. So I don't I don't even know if I've seen blackberries over there.
Unknown Speaker 39:42
I've never seen any No.
Speaker 3 39:43
Notice. But our aside, there was logging so there was a logging slash in the blackberries
Speaker 1 39:51
take over. Yeah, we call the blackberries. blackberries are actually Bramble berries. Those little ones that grow in the slash
Speaker 2 39:57
there. Yeah, the native ones. Yeah. Oh, Anyway, the only ones my grandmother would ever pick. She has nothing to do with the other ones. No, they're
Unknown Speaker 40:05
the they're all introduced here.
Speaker 1 40:07
Jelly out of the Himalayan ones. Yeah, they're easy to pick lots and they're so seedy. Then she would boil off and hang them that all the juice run out and then we put our grapes in it. Oh,
Unknown Speaker 40:18
yeah. Awesome stuff.
Speaker 1 40:21
The other one so they were like, everyone a little, a little nugget of gold.
Unknown Speaker 40:25
I know. They grew so
Speaker 3 40:27
rampantly in the logging slash that us they would give us a big pot or a bucket and table for and we could we could pick that much. Because they were they were winning. Yeah, they were really plentiful.
Speaker 2 40:40
My grandma Saanich and she was taking his whack away the bushes and tons of them and we haven't our place to
Speaker 3 40:45
nowadays you can spend an hour to get a couple. Yeah. Klinsmann.
Unknown Speaker 40:54
Did you guys hear that term ever? Yeah. might
Speaker 1 40:56
have seen the song. Hi, you clams. And now we're Janet Luton, by the way. Singing that Nick Leishman was on So hi, you. Clowns, lots of clown. Yeah. And dear woman, by the way, by the way. There's way more to that song. We only knew that we only have those two lines out because you notice the woman know as Hawaiian. It means crazy. You're local. And then uncle he's like,
Unknown Speaker 41:24
yeah, he's
Speaker 1 41:29
my version. And in the Chinook model of crazy. Show it that one passes between the Hawaiian in England and the Chinook. Yeah, but she was based with lots of French lots of English. And then they also had in anything that made it possible for everyone to communicate. Winds were in there trying to communicate also
Speaker 2 41:55
basic trade jargon for economic reasons.
Speaker 1 41:59
There's mocks like I said that was number two, two exclamation marks. It's counting one and two. Miss Sachi disagreeable or bitchy was the way John put it down but in the dictionary, it's bad, wicked and untrustworthy. So exactly. And like, and it was sort of like, like, Uncle Paul used to call them kids miss Sachi if they were whining. Yes. Yeah, AMS Sachi. Sachi bad and Sachi is the specific context of malice or evil for these two definitions for Batum in the dictionary, man a crow's nest mags is just one of the Roland isms somebody some some wife was up a ladder picking berries and his wife, Lisa Hudson Lee and Maggie Lee Hudson in something he'd said to her we just became a family thing. Mark appeal one dirty eyes. You get that you wake up in the morning you get crusty eyes. Okay, Maca is my mark Lolo is good guy doing that stupid. It's crazy. guy anyway. Man mouth just deer. And that that lines up? Exactly. With the Chinook language. Yeah. Norming. The only that was we didn't have an end. So John put norming in there. Norming was the nickname of one of the Hamiltons Norman norming. Or boots or ouput is what we call it is your bump. Yeah. Clocks looks like they used when they were saying like look, look over their clocks. And if
Unknown Speaker 43:49
anyone really knew who
Speaker 1 43:51
clocks clocks, cloud flag events up goes down. I don't know where that came from. And always use that still do
Speaker 3 44:00
Oh, that must be Paco don't certainly sounds Wyatt.
Unknown Speaker 44:05
I don't know how it will be spelled. I
Unknown Speaker 44:07
zipper
Speaker 3 44:08
my guess. Yeah. In those days were mostly buttons. Yeah, pop out. Yeah, sounds fine. You'd be really
Speaker 1 44:21
if you were sick and hearing your color gets green it's late. You're sick. You're not right pale or sickly pose is looking sick. So if you PE Li You look booth. green around the gills. People Kadena we call that they were ugly. Something was ugly. It's poopoo in Billa puts at your testicles. The pull out that says you pick out your pallets allocates. Quick quick read only we didn't have any cues. John came up with that one quick quick word wagon. And that's that was the one of the ham I couldn't say how to beat speech impediments. They were deaf, they will mute their impediments. They had punchbags. Yeah.
Speaker 3 45:09
But their parents are first cousins. That's why they were sent out their roommates people were sent over sent over to the colonies to just stay away from the family. Paul
Speaker 1 45:19
used to say like, you know, the intermarried into the families like so many people did play us that it was sort of like to keep the money in the family. In Hawaiian, they intermarry, but brothers and fathers and sisters and brothers for that sacred vine key ADA kept the world lead.
Speaker 2 45:39
That's the same interface like totally my grandparents are first cousins. Yeah, from naughty mama. I mean, I'm at the Center for a whole bunch of Haku. But it was that was part of the strategy. You will people
Speaker 3 45:50
and it could work wonderfully. And it could work. That sounds wonderful. Yeah, depending on what what what elements you got in your in your jeans. Yeah,
Speaker 1 45:59
but I think that was part of his his speech impediment. Um, quick, the anchors dragging. Yeah. We're doing I think that's what I gave him the only because we didn't have a cue that was a billy came up with quality.
Speaker 2 46:13
It's so interesting. All these references to those people because the green neighbors neighbors and
Speaker 3 46:19
community. Yeah. Understand that Matilda delivered a lot of those kids.
Speaker 2 46:24
Those Hamilton's really so Matilda was a midwife.
Speaker 3 46:28
Yes. They all were back to she had all her kids. She delivered at least some of those kids if not all, well,
Speaker 1 46:41
then we get find a cute Kwok. A smoked salmon, and it was the really dry hard look like you know, nowadays they've got some smoked salmon. It's almost we're all Yeah. Leave the smoke over it and smoke. Yeah, this was that hard drive. I
Speaker 2 46:57
like that stuff. Yeah, I like the hard stuff. Last for Yeah, the
Unknown Speaker 47:00
last few years here. We
Speaker 2 47:01
got the wind dried stuff from the freezer. No. No, Windrider Sockeye and it's really hard. It's just awesome. And the Native people have their toasted you know, they're just sort of unique. Pull it right off the skin and little chunks and they just toasted it's so good. It's hard. It's good. Okay, I don't know. How do you pronounce him?
Unknown Speaker 47:26
Dad calls call it quality? Quality. Oh, maybe they use both.
Unknown Speaker 47:35
I remember quality. Its pronunciation dry.
Unknown Speaker 47:40
Dry. Smart.
Speaker 1 47:43
Alright, run Michael shoot. That was you know, when you were encouraging someone. Alright, so we were all in the race and writing writing. Shoot. Shoot, really? I don't know. That was probably two people that they knew.
Speaker 2 48:03
I mean, what if it's a I think a native word, shoot boiler? I don't know. Maybe? I
Speaker 3 48:09
don't know something. I don't know what it was all about. Really, as always when we
Speaker 1 48:13
were running, encouraging you to sweet see if I didn't see your tunes. Or you had bad hair. Asleep. See. And Tony, this is our nephew. Again. He got he got a lot of these things. And he was bullied. And he was also called Sweet, sweet.
Speaker 2 48:33
And sweet sees the big little the big one. There's a little purple ones. Well,
Speaker 1 48:41
they're all They're all. Yeah. Actually. My client in Victoria, who loaned me the Chinook book. He told me the little green ones are called this. And the big ones are called that. And I think I had it right. Squeaks he was the big purple ones and easily called the little green ones. And he had another,
Speaker 2 48:56
like wheeless or something. Yeah, really. But we'll figure it out for us.
Unknown Speaker 49:03
It was all really fun. What's
Speaker 2 49:05
the you know, write this up and incorporate interviews and stuff. You can get a really nice, you know? Yeah, get into some of the meanings. Attribution, just like you've been doing. It was expand on this is great.
Speaker 1 49:17
Or bill? Chocolate. I don't know what it was sort of. That guy's a scissor Bell. So one of those types of things. It wasn't a term of endearment. No. Actually, John did tell us okay. Yes. The other day. He said it's a barber on a submarine. And he said, you remember the guy who played the cat, the skipper on Gilligan? Yeah. And I said, Yeah, we looked him up on his name. And he says it was his father, the senior. He has a story we'll have to ask him. And that's what they call the barber. In a in a submarine
Speaker 2 49:57
scissor. Yeah, no, no medical term we always
Speaker 1 50:01
had it as a router stubborn stupid person and they said it's not a term of endearment or bell because I don't know where that came from.
Speaker 2 50:11
Sis gay was this Yeah,
Speaker 1 50:14
this is PRC use I don't know if that Oh, pronunciation pronunciation see cues. CQ
Unknown Speaker 50:20
so what is what's this one?
Unknown Speaker 50:24
We always run that scale assists
Unknown Speaker 50:27
in what context? Cisco was it that was your
Speaker 1 50:30
underwear? Oh, and these had a lot of different names it was a scalar says and climates came autonomous and
Unknown Speaker 50:40
how weird
Speaker 1 50:46
Yeah, I don't know why but this pronunciation is or maybe this maybe I found that
Speaker 2 50:51
word. Yeah, I mean that looks I'll come in. Yeah, maybe
Unknown Speaker 50:55
I found it in the dictionary and then I put the pronunciation
Unknown Speaker 50:58
CQC Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 51:00
Probably thinking it's close to some aliases because that's how they dunkel son and dad pronounced squats in the dictionary was class. And it was afraid. And Uncle Paul we moved from class to class. Like so many of those, especially in new words had that the T apostrophe S Yeah, you know those that got all sort of stopped they had in there yeah, I think that's an accurate it was class but
Unknown Speaker 51:30
what context would you use that
Speaker 1 51:32
was when you were afraid? And it's exactly what we came up in the dictionary this class was afraid that was my nephew Josh, who's his report card this gentleman they said that he does pretty well in all subjects except he says these squats to walk across the balance beam in physical and just class again nice still it stopped and that was something really have that story it started coming down further we could we use soy it showing them well was she she was probably farther down. It was SILMO moment she she she Shama means you she started started story from SE and shomo. Momo she she che it was to make the storm go away. And stay at a stop. So you're trying to stop the storm coming in from the southeast coast most of our stuff that's in here someplace I think. That's interesting. school girl that's made out of the the general dictionary and one that we still use today anything that Skookum is being in strong kasal right and stink body odor. And they always had that.
Unknown Speaker 52:59
That's got to be Hulkamania Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 53:01
I think so. So it'd be like apostrophe s. Shelton, even chapter knife or a needle pointing sharp so you hear that a lot.
Speaker 1 53:21
Daniel's always looking for his aim. Look. There was a maybe some Charlie's wife. I think it was a nickname. And we weren't sure if that is John. When he was either these days I think that might have been her in slope, slope and slug us Do you see oh yeah.
Unknown Speaker 53:44
We collect slack as is
Unknown Speaker 53:47
the slotless is that the green
Speaker 2 53:48
stuff? Yeah, that kind of goes in a fan and the rock comes it's one of the first ones Yeah, rose on the rock and just pull it off from what we need it all the time. Yeah, drive.
Speaker 1 54:00
Everything empty, empty. renice like stoke send the boys to pick sloka but when it dried I think it was quite dark green anyway, but when it dried is black.
Speaker 2 54:09
Wow. So slow because the dark the purple and I guess maybe for your tour. Did you guys do people collect seaweed? Oh,
Speaker 1 54:20
yeah. We collect the seaweed when we were going to have the new house on the beach. Right. Was that green leafy? Yeah, very. Yeah, keep the steam in. We didn't eat much of it. I think Michael Paul used to eat the seaweed. It was more to do with the preparation of it. Yeah, Mum was just not into incorporating cooking. No, no, but he would probably eat it with Auntie renice anybody who did produce it. Yeah. Prepared. Nice. Slo Mo Mo moods you shape. The rain storm weather show no means you see per state. Stop the rain. stopped the storm. I don't know where that came from. But that's again we still say that today wow. squeal with somebody it's cricket it's all sweet with strong horses
Unknown Speaker 55:18
drawn to them
Speaker 1 55:19
yeah I think those slick shit was that's that they'll have something good with me Oh slug ship
Unknown Speaker 55:29
that was like no explanation
Speaker 1 55:31
pleasant surprise in the show Allah is the people are under the bed now got that in green is that is that you know I don't have the definition like it is but that's what we call it the Shu Allah. You know when you have the outhouses? Yeah, like you gave them or if they were sick somebody was sick and they couldn't make it to the outhouse.
Speaker 2 55:54
Give them a shoe on Yeah, chamber pot. Squirrels
Speaker 1 55:58
as my sister Ethel past tense of squeeze she had a tough time with the English language and it was just because she was sort of lazy with it. And one day she said something she had some fresh schools orange juice, and we all flows last mod which is yet is it's fast as ng differently to launch into this, this, this reasoning behind it. I'll give you the outcome, though. Well, okay. But we still say schools in in remembrance of her sleep, the omelets matter. And that's your underwear.
Speaker 2 56:36
Omelets, because that's something about seat. That's coming to work. Okay. Sit down at your seat. Or wonder
Speaker 1 56:49
bet it has something to do with that. Was one of those ones that anthropol used all
Speaker 2 56:53
sentence. Yeah, see that sentence again?
Unknown Speaker 56:57
Claim it on its limit? disclaim it
Unknown Speaker 57:07
Oh, yeah, that's how can you
Speaker 1 57:08
still alley oak? Empty done finish? Is there anything any cookies that Nope, still alley oak? Smart Money.
Unknown Speaker 57:20
That's an interesting one. Yes.
Speaker 1 57:22
And in money. Can't remember Oh, chicony. Or, there was there was one like that. And there was another one I just chicken. Chicken Chicken. I'm sure we will. Spawn duplex. I don't know is that Englischer
Speaker 2 57:43
sounds like Spondylus which is a very valuable seashell. downproof It's pink. It was really valuable. John
Speaker 1 57:52
might have a Yeah, that's interesting. Kaka that's the new sheet to the salmon Berry. Oh, neat. You know, it has the red skin on it with the little spike ease. Yep. Okay, well, when it's really fresh, those spikes are soft. You can put your finger right up them when they get hard. Like what did they turn into like thorns, like on a rosebush? So the new shoots that came out you'd break them off. And you could eat them because they were soft. They also peel that red skin off with the little boring things. And with just a green shoot it that it's been because we could spend the day up in the woods never gonna look for water because you just had the soup and was very good for like, you know, if you needed like a laxative on qualities to send us all the time to get them lock attack up because he bet bets. Also the new shoots of the salmon cemetery that least Allenbury new shoots of the thimbleberry Okay, same thing. But there they recovered in sort of like a fuzzy baby here. So you could eat that straight out.
Unknown Speaker 59:00
So what would you get the shoots now?
Unknown Speaker 59:02
In the spring? Too early for them all bullets been so warm.
Speaker 2 59:08
Yeah. Yeah. No, look out for those because I've always heard about it. I've never tried them because I always get the two later.
Speaker 1 59:14
Yeah. Down here. When you break it off the stem down your rig comes out of there quite often started getting Woody. Okay. And you could chew it up and
Speaker 2 59:23
get the juice out. Yeah, that's what those new Yeah,
Speaker 1 59:27
in the middle would be the best part. And then the top where it's starting to just new leaves is quite often really tarped Okay.
Unknown Speaker 59:37
Perfect middle ground. Yeah. Let's give a talk. I Yeah.
Speaker 1 59:42
Oh, that's cool, man. Now, they talked often about that. I think it was tremendous. He used it in a way like it was your power.
Unknown Speaker 59:55
That's a word. That's the Shinnok translation.
Speaker 1 59:57
Okay, well, that said Uncle Paul used to use it in that In that regard, but like this, the, the Chinuch. One, they got different spellings and everything in there on lots of those bad evil you see
Speaker 2 1:00:10
that shows a lot of the sort of the Christian take on what this is, you know, that's evil and bad. Like they're referring to the native Earth in the Indian religion, you know, the spirit questing and all that. The Terminus is regarding spirit in amongst Shinnok people. And then missionaries used generally to refer to like, winter dances and stuff, we just call it a tightness in the general thing, but you guys use for power. I mean, that's what it is. Yeah. You know, getting your individual spirit power
Unknown Speaker 1:00:41
fend off the bad spirits.
Speaker 2 1:00:44
Oh, that was what does that think of that using that word? Or? I
Speaker 1 1:00:48
think so. Yeah. They would use it in that regard in that way. Off the bat. You could do to madness. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:56
Cool. Down
Unknown Speaker 1:00:58
twitch. That's the cadence.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:01
Did you guys eat those? No, but
Speaker 1 1:01:04
the Dan was talking about that, too. He said there was I shouldn't say what where he was but they had big ones.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:11
He said there were this. Yeah, West Coast. Ours. Yeah.
Speaker 1 1:01:13
He said they were big like this. And they would scoop it out of the shell. And then they would they'd have always have a fire burning on the beach and he basically get a flat rock because I honestly could ring the around the fire. So it was hard. And then you put this on that flat rock and put another flat rock on top of it. And just let it sit there. And he said it was it's a muscle. Yeah. It's like abalone. Yeah. So it'd be thick and hard. Like as soon as it started to cook, it would just go you know, the blink of down. He said to the men it was he was quite good. It tastes really good. Still a bit chewy. But if you probably treated it like you do with abalone and pound it Yeah. Because you got to break up that muscle. Yeah. But yeah, he uh, he tried when he felt free to use it in an unbelievable and that's just my wham my wham wham there's nothing left but his wax. Again that bitch that was the Hamilton the speech there the way we lamb. And that was about the round that you know, he laughed. He busted out he was gone. But he's to wax. There's he will come sack or your bag? Backpack? That's Hawaiian. Yeah, definitely. vittles. Wha wha applying Cain. He was here this morning as our cousin Steve Ellis his nickname apple pie in candy. But he couldn't say x didn't have an excellent the expert. The x is unknown. And a spoon is a drip under high pressure. Yellow. I do not like yellow. We talked about this the other day and Uncle Paul dad, a lot of them. They anti things I do not like yellow. And I don't know what they were referring to. But it was very common. You heard it a lot. stands alone. And yellow dog was the nickname for Bob Baker. Oh yeah. Little yellow. The yellow dog. was Bob Bobby Bobby cumin. Yoo hoo. Tea time did he use who was Edward or jelly Lacey? This is when the Hamiltons Yeah, no laces. Oh, they
Unknown Speaker 1:03:42
lived almost next door to the
Speaker 1 1:03:45
Hamilton. You did he did um Did he? She'd stand on the tee time did he? You tell them Holly kitten Pokemon Go for the Hmong and tomorrow Hmong and now that is Chinook. You tell you tell them Holly, did you tell Carrie you are dad. You catch them upon him to get his pumpkin, get some punch COVID Go up the mung Mung and go up the mountain tomorrow money and you tell them you tell them how they can demand more money. As as a person or as a kid, where are two black cats? We had two black cats with the two coons from Kate's grandfather. Owl isn't Oh, I hurt myself. That is oh, it was just browsing this matters. That's it. Wow.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:47
That's amazing. Good stuff.
Speaker 1 1:04:49
Yeah. Standard dictionary. Not so standard really. Standard to us.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:58
No, I'm it's gonna be fun to look through. Do those and yeah, see which ones are needed words, which are the Shinnok as you just
Unknown Speaker 1:05:08
did just email you that so
Speaker 2 1:05:10
yeah, could you Yeah, we can work from that. Super nice because that's real, you know, local stuff. Yeah. Differences pronunciation. And you can imagine back, you know, in a previous generation, you know, he would have used a lot more bigger vocabulary. You know, a bit people, new Salish, um, everybody increment I talked to him. He said when he was a kid, he spoke with his grandma all the time. Yes. And he just lose it. I'm sure at the age of four, he was conversing with El Camino
Speaker 3 1:05:45
and who we got Charlie Sampson just the other day. Just wanted me. Oh, he mentioned that people from Maine Island. Oh, the jacks? Nope, not the jacks. I told you. So. Scott over my head right now. And they speak the language. Oh, Andy.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:11
So where are you ready?
Speaker 2 1:06:13
Oh, crap. Okay. From Portsmouth, New Delhi. No, no, yes. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:20
It will be lives in the ladies now
Speaker 3 1:06:22
lives ladies with now as Charlie said in Charlie's coming tomorrow for dinner. And so we're gonna pick his brain. Oh,
Speaker 2 1:06:31
it'd be cool to talk to that. And you guys because I know some of those Kroeker croakers. And, yeah, they're, they're super knowledgeable, because it was a little community. In the 60s up on the north end of Galliano where everybody spoke Amina, they didn't speak English. I know a woman who's you know, she didn't learn English until she was like nine years old, because he's lived there. And no need to learn English. So these people are all fluent speakers now and really into the culture. Like,
Speaker 3 1:07:00
we have one speaker in our family, federal and junior speaks the language. Oh, well, he, he learned from his mom, she's couching. Okay. Is that the language that the medium? Okay. He speaks it he does read actually do. He's traveled all around the world.
Speaker 1 1:07:20
He teaches the whole community. Not not the language, just their customs, culture, sweat lodges. He does all that sort of stuff. And then he teaches that and he's been down the Amazon. He's been locked in Germany.
Speaker 2 1:07:43
You're over reunion. So he's a really interesting guy. So tell me how did he what's his kind of how did he How did that happen? That he's no Roland couch
Unknown Speaker 1:07:52
and his father's Fred Roland. He's Fred Rowland
Speaker 2 1:07:55
Jr. One of the dad's younger brothers. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right is
Speaker 1 1:07:59
to to two below dad. There's dad there. Sister, Sophie, then Fred. And Fred married Judy love fortune, and had five kids. And she's coaching. She was yeah, she was smaller that way. I'm not exactly sure where she was born. I have a bit of information on her. But after they had their five kids, and he married Margaret Shirley, and had five more and Fred is is one of
Speaker 3 1:08:26
those. So he's Fred rolling the second. Yeah.
Speaker 1 1:08:29
And he he was locked into a lot of drugs and alcohol and stuff as many are in their teens up into their 20s. And when he cleaned himself up, that's when he sort of got into this. This idea of listening to his mother learning all these learned language.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:49
Nice. That helped him and obviously
Speaker 1 1:08:53
now he teaches and he came over and helped showed us how to do theater bark. Yeah. So he spent the whole day over here with us and showing us how to do it and
Speaker 2 1:09:02
yeah, I wish I could talk to him more. He seems really interesting. Knowledgeable do very interesting.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:07
Very busy. Yeah,
Speaker 3 1:09:10
he's he's been dementia teacher. He's met the Dalai Lama.
Speaker 2 1:09:14
Yeah, I mean, imagine like camp there. You know, like a whole day of a tourist hotel. They're like ready to die. Because it's sick because you know, he had a meal down on the Indian train would come in, we were down. We were just found ourselves there. So I was on an archeological dig and the train comes in all these women are out there serving food and we're just starving. And it looks so good. But he's about to die. Like kill me. I don't care. You can't ever imagine me too. And you know, we couldn't afford to be in the tourist hotel was the only place that a toilet within 10 square miles. We just couldn't leave the room. It was a bunch of fancy hotel and just couldn't enjoy it at all, but just had to heal our So
Speaker 1 1:10:01
I know sometimes you think how can a person be this can still live
Speaker 2 1:10:06
and it was funny I just thought you know if I wouldn't care because it was so just you know stabbing stomach anyway. Take me now. Yeah. Anyway. But anyway that's a cool story about why was wondering how that roller named.
Speaker 1 1:10:20
Yeah, but brothers moved and live in Duncan, Pete and Uncle Fred and Uncle Pete never had any children of his own but he raised Fred's two oldest boys. Jerry, Rick. They're still living over there. So where does he live on reserve? Which one? Okay, just go on. Go on into Duncan before you cross the bridge.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:46
Okay, before Oh, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:50
Restaurant row to be on your
Speaker 2 1:10:52
right. That's cool. Hello. Because a whole bunch of village sites in there. How long does before? Think it's part of but it's an old helot like the name moved around. So there wasn't a lot there by that bridge. And then the people moved to Willie Island. And then they moved to where they are now. But the name went with them. And it just means painted houses. Oh, originally,
Unknown Speaker 1:11:15
he was gonna
Unknown Speaker 1:11:18
need rain in one day. That's cool. Okay, so we talked about language.
Speaker 1 1:11:28
That's the weather note say Oh, yeah. Map of the so then she wants us to identify some of the the
Unknown Speaker 1:11:37
just the places.
Speaker 1 1:11:39
I did find the crown brands. Let's take a look at them. Okay.
Speaker 2 1:11:46
I think a map like the archives had some kind of wind map. I don't think it's good. Or they had some it's sort of vague doesn't just have the names. Like be really nice. So identify the original properties. I think that would be cool. Yeah, we original preemptions Yeah,
Speaker 1 1:12:00
you see this by open? Oh, here we go. This is it. Oh, sweet. So this is let me see. Well, this is right down. This is village islands down here. Right. So this was able Douglas on that. And this would have been the townies in the lameness. Yeah. So this was able Douglas I got this all off the internet. So this is what it said about in
Unknown Speaker 1:12:28
there. This is all on the internet. Where did you find it? Yeah.
Speaker 1 1:12:40
That didn't pull up. Very good. But I see another one here. Oh, it looks Edward Musgrave. So this is all Musgrave these pink ones to see how much he owned. Oh, yeah, he was the one that was sort of like the what did they call it the logging? Dip all along? Are people okay? So they preempt it or whatever, get the stands a lumber, log it off and then either sell it or?
Speaker 2 1:13:14
It was a bit of a racket in those days. Yeah, there was just so much land available native circuit screwed out of it and the white guy can come here and get huge chunks of land and log it and take off. Let's turn it off.
Speaker 3 1:13:28
That's why I like the fact that a Hawaiian preempted Indian land development.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:32
Perfect. This looks good. What is this one? That's Oh, that's a oh. Oh, wow. Do we have these in the archives? Don't look familiar. I gotta be in there.
Speaker 1 1:13:46
Edward Musgraves map one. lose one and then crown grant Edward Musgrave.
Speaker 2 1:13:52
Oh, so he got a hold of fishers. That's really interesting.
Speaker 1 1:13:59
And that's the paperwork to go through. That George Shepherd This is up above us. Oh my god. I printed off Oh, what's this? Zed isn't ermine left? Elite
Speaker 2 1:14:18
he got a big sigh where's this is that isn't Oh, hi. No, some weird? Oh, let's give it to the flow maps with the handwriting.
Speaker 1 1:14:37
Yeah, see that's Herman Herman Lee, or lake is the guy who raised our grandfather, Peter, George Roland, for in his younger years, but from today, about six or seven years old, and he died.
Unknown Speaker 1:14:53
And why did he raise
Speaker 1 1:14:57
his father was killed or killed in the mining act. accident when she was only one month pregnant, so he never knew his real father and the mother couldn't couldn't take care of the children. She just couldn't and her sister was married to this fella and they took him took him in
Unknown Speaker 1:15:16
the club at leat. Jefford there now this is Fulford Harbour. Okay. So there you see so this was Horace super Yeah, Horace Shepherd horse Smith Shepherd.
Speaker 1 1:15:36
His son George, married Julia Malcolm, his son, John, Mary Elizabeth Harris, who's to George's half sister. And his daughter Delia, Mary Jo Downey and John Palau.
Unknown Speaker 1:15:54
Interesting that's the wrong place. No, we are we down Are you down further? Over here? Yeah,
Speaker 1 1:15:59
probably here in the corner of this lot. No, that's that's too far. It's even farther down. The city really this is right up the head of the harbor,
Speaker 2 1:16:07
good to get these maps and tie them in with the people and show it how it changes over time. It'd be really good in that picture that
Speaker 1 1:16:16
you have here. Oh, no, sorry. It's about what that little pink slips. On the outside of the hair. This is all the same. This is 14. Oh, Ray. Isn't that weird? Way to 30 and the church? Yeah, I think the church is right about here. That looks like the church property. Yeah, yeah, there's a point and I was sure that Shepherd donated that land for the church and so it was a lot it was really good I couldn't say for sure. And then when I got this I said that's where the church is. And it was Shepard and it's probably just because it was this little chunk on either side of the harbor.
Speaker 2 1:16:57
Yeah, he can enter the church although there's something significant about that place because it has a little stone bowl down there and the point you've seen that a it's a bedrock of all across the church Yeah, right on if you go across the road down there's sort of a little rocky point and there's one of these beautiful bedrock bowls you really don't really know what they are Bobby come and told me that there was a place to to prepare the taco berries so it had to get he believed how utilitarian aspect to it just sort of a zone. I didn't know it was there. It's a very smooth bully go down there and you can read I mean, it's it's about six different places on the island. Sometimes they found in big tops of big erratic boulders. Nobody knows what they're used for. When a Churchill beach went off the road that's a great map. So when you said Shepherd acquired the land from your your great grandfather? No,
Speaker 1 1:18:03
no, no, that was his preemption or his crown grant. That was explained to me that you preempt the land Yeah. And then you you try and improve it or you lose it and once you did show that you improve the land and your five year they had a little limit of five years then then they designed the crown brands right It wasn't your isn't really about the crown brand. So that was his his crown ground for those so
Speaker 2 1:18:30
we you have maps of all your like the family properties, the grants I
Speaker 1 1:18:35
compiled it from this one I got a printout of that so then of the island and then from each separate one of the scenes like I just sort of highlighted them in so I can see where everybody fit Yeah,
Speaker 2 1:18:46
I have that that'd be important thing to sort of have as part of this project.
Unknown Speaker 1:18:50
This is John Palau, this is Portland Island.
Speaker 2 1:18:53
Oh, these are the lights you were talking to the other day. So this is Portland island. He also they spoke spelled his name their BA Yah ha
Speaker 1 1:19:02
Lau Yeah, that's the correct spelling as far as I know. But then sometimes they would reverse these the una Yeah. Yeah, which is right differences in all right or Oh W and then then these in PA LM W P E ll e w whatever Calam palac because that would be like the handwriting pa L A. And they will say the use a C and yeah, so but this is where they he owned two and four Palau Wow. And now kind of on one and three and that looked he can't see but that looks straight in Fulford harbour, right
Speaker 1 1:19:53
John Palau, now this is his email. Okay, so We're farther down. See this is that funny little wedge shaped in the other one. So Shepard is up here at the head of the harbor, okay, come down. And here is John Palau. Now we are here. Does that think Palau, Palau? No, this is about coming. This is coming ashore? Yes. Because Palau is on the water. Yes. So well, John Palau, Sr. And was there before come ashore? Yes. So that's that one. And this one was his son, Andrew, or his grandson. So this would be us here. Okay. And this maybe even farther down. Maybe. It's, it's it's much more clear on when I put it all together on one map. Yeah. The big picture. Is this as the paperwork for it. Cool. How that's a beautiful point. Man.
Speaker 1 1:21:18
To get any bigger Tony. Joseph Domine. Okay, well, that's the MBL for eighteens is one inch 40 Change equals one inch. So this is, you know, this is so Salzman. Yeah. So let's bring on so to wear though. Need a bigger map of it? Yeah.
Speaker 2 1:21:46
It looks, I guess new those village a village. So why do you think they call that village islands?
Unknown Speaker 1:21:53
Indian village on it? Okay.
Speaker 2 1:21:59
Well, it's interesting, because, yeah, I mean, I've seen that there was a huge archaeological site there. So there was a village there. But I asked is don't stand about it. And he said they always occurred that is the village because that's where the tone of their families lived. The lumley's and the Tonys next door to each other. It's sort of a community.
Unknown Speaker 1:22:17
I don't know. It's Billy Jones on the chart. Yeah.
Speaker 2 1:22:20
I mean, it's obviously apparently found. Oh, yeah. Turns in. The owner keeps contacting me and wanting me to come over and walk over it never got together. This is this
Unknown Speaker 1:22:34
new one. Oh,
Speaker 2 1:22:36
that. Yeah. He's the he's the will the patriarch of that family. Yes. So that's a really good one to have.
Speaker 1 1:22:45
Yeah. And then and then this little chunk here? Or maybe the whole chunk that Oh, that was the one
Speaker 2 1:22:50
we just saw? Yeah. Wow. This is really, I've never seen anybody do this, like put together the actual properties. And I don't know if you know, Brian Smallshaw. He's got an island. He has a Japanese wife. And he's been doing a lot of research on the the Japanese stuff. And he's produced some awesome maps, just showing the actual properties. It's really powerful. You can see what you know, they were dispossessed, you know, instead of just a little.on, the map that shows the actual land. Yeah. So this would be really neat to give an idea of sort of the extent of the Hawaiian Salish community here. Yeah. But showing these I mean, these are huge areas.
Speaker 1 1:23:30
They released 169 acres or more, I think that's the sort of standard was 160 million acres
Speaker 2 1:23:36
and your film, he's one of the only ones that held on to the gland. Like I asked, you know, Stan, he said how they went away to war. It was just kind of got you know, they got swindled out or something. He's the moments came up, but I didn't get into all the details. Yeah, they took like took advantage of people I think at that time, we didn't get any land on one north end
Speaker 1 1:24:02
this year, like this is crazy. This is Bill Johnson This is full for Harvard going. out new one is how they pronounce his or Brody's meme, but so that's Fulford harbour that way years going around Isabel point Yeah. And he open harbor Yeah, right across over here is Eleanor point and beaver point. Yeah. And there's a lot of properties over there how Mayer was open. When the Douglass Douglass Marshall Island is somewhere over here. So it shows
Speaker 2 1:24:34
you see that's what we gotta do. We gotta get a snapshot of all of these are these properties in time like? Yeah, would be really cool. Well, let's see. Did I get somebody
Speaker 1 1:24:46
I took one of the maps that the SIR like she won the whole endosulfan was one.
Speaker 1 1:24:59
Portland The big picture was one map there. I took, oh, I took a map like that, and I printed it. And of course, it's all marked out in in there. That's a bad one anyway, but it's all marked out in the last like, where's and then I took every single grants. Okay, there it is. Okay, that sounds nice and put it in and put their name on it so that you can see where they were all right. I have that at home. I I didn't scan it in here. I guess they should. But these are all in
Speaker 2 1:25:37
the crowd. That's a good thing, you know, to help organize all this stuff? Because be really affected to see the extent of these properties.
Speaker 3 1:25:45
Is there one that has no talent? Yeah, he's Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:25:52
Oh, yeah. So what about his Saltspring? Property?
Speaker 1 1:25:58
No, that's what I was looking through this for. And I found that because I see this all squared off piece of property. I can tell it that's where our place is, is a little sort of triangular. One hears the harbor. Yeah. And it was preempted or crown granted to John Sparrow.
Speaker 2 1:26:18
Oh, right. We're talking about so
Speaker 1 1:26:23
I think the crown grant is the very first ownership this minute, because up until then, it wasn't. Yeah, they offered the preemption then you got a crown grand fork, so he probably had it first than he might have sold it to. Stan said, No, kind of bought it off of Peterson. So maybe stearyl sold it to Peterson Peterson sold it to Malcolm. We don't know.
Unknown Speaker 1:26:48
To get that paper trail. It's like expensive when
Speaker 1 1:26:51
you start with who owns it now. Right? Why, like, secret? Or not be that many steps course David owns analysis, it will go back to dad to Matilda, or whichever one of them bought it. We don't know. They both lived there. She owned it or did her dad. And then from him it would go to maybe Peterson if he didn't get it from Peterson and then to barrel if he was the first one. So it's not too many steps. Back when I first asked about it was 50 bucks or so three, four or 500 bucks. You're looking at a little bit rich. That's now
Unknown Speaker 1:27:43
but that's the so this is what time What year is this?
Speaker 1 1:27:46
I Team 75. Yeah. And that's Portland. Portland. Yeah. This is he at his house here. Looking straight in.
Speaker 2 1:27:57
So we know the first one on ToString. Was this helmet as far as you know? Or no. Let's let's talk about that for a bit. Who was the first I think we talked about last time it just
Unknown Speaker 1:28:09
I
Speaker 2 1:28:10
because it's so interesting. The migration from San Juan Island, you know, going to Portland and then to Seoul stream. We need to figure out who was there first and you kind of had ideas about it.
Speaker 1 1:28:22
What I saw on there and his name, but I think it was buddy teens 68 which is quite a bit before now. Yeah. Preemption actually I think it's in that timeline that's first guy and I think that's at the edge your archives in time
Speaker 2 1:28:49
and I've some are seen an old map and that'd be right up by Beaver point, isn't it that sort of eerie across the Russell Island is because didn't have a good rest loan to somebody here
Speaker 1 1:29:07
it felt spoiling kind of Thailand pacific northwest Pacific Northwest. Presentation. I don't see it here. Maybe I don't have it. But I think it's like the Saltspring Island timeline. Yeah. And I think in there was the first maybe
Speaker 2 1:29:37
a Tom cobbles book too. And it's other ones.
Speaker 1 1:29:40
But the Hawaiians I see now. I think when when they got sort of booted off of San Juan Island, it was after the border finally went through. I think they hung in there because they didn't know how the word was going to come out. Yeah. You know, and they had that 49th parallel straight across the border below that right And like as I was pointing out the sister, the British, of course wanted to come and include all those islands. Yeah. And and of course, Americans didn't know, let's take all of them took the first sighting of all the American. So that's when Wilhelm came in just put lines Exactly.
Speaker 2 1:30:21
Up to the eggs. Yeah, my understanding. So
Speaker 1 1:30:25
they got half and a half. Yeah. So now here they find themselves in a good F 1872 on San Juan Island that is now America. And they weren't into it. A lot. Lots was happening there. Like it didn't want them there. They didn't want anybody who wasn't American there. You know, the United States of America, those people hadn't been united from day one. I think they got to change the name of that. They couldn't be united.
Speaker 2 1:31:01
And you know, when you look at the history of that island, the British were there first. And then they had the permission of the songhees to build psaltery there and the Americans basically squatted there after the gold rush. You know, the Fraser River Gold Rush was a big bust. So they're all coming back. And London just hung around because they're too poor to go home. Like most of the people came to the Gold Rush went back to where they came from. But there are a whole bunch of people who were like poverty cases, and they hung around and squatted on the island and just started causing trouble.
Speaker 1 1:31:29
When they were back there behind like anything is what was happening in the timeline in 1872. You Americans were coming full force across their country.
Speaker 2 1:31:38
Stop everything, just knowing that everything in the way wasn't it that about
Speaker 1 1:31:42
the time where they killed all the buffalo, just like so here you are sitting on this island. And that's what's coming at you. Like I'm getting Maddie here, Juggernaut. And we've Douglas up here, James Douglas saying look at you know, we welcome everybody. You know, we'll set you up as citizens. You know, what, when they call me became naturalized citizens. And while they he wasn't natural isolate to 89. He preempted land making 75. So you allowed them to have land and vote and all that
Speaker 2 1:32:17
long history is employees. big company.
Speaker 1 1:32:21
So I think they left San Juan probably when the border went through and push them to shove they left. So no, no later than 1872. And then they ended up in probably for Victoria. They could roll
Speaker 2 1:32:34
there. Yeah. And yeah, that's it feels like nothing of that.
Speaker 1 1:32:38
Like you can you literally I could grow there today.
Unknown Speaker 1:32:43
It will wanted to,
Speaker 1 1:32:44
I wanted to, because it's not far. No. So they probably ended up in Fort Victoria. They had Tanaka over there right down on Humboldt Street, had their own place to live. They can be employed before if there was employment for them. And then within three years, he's pre empting land on Portland island. So it was probably that passage of those three years. Okay, what are we going to do with these people? Let's get them some land. Yep, looked around. And then preemption start.
Speaker 2 1:33:14
But then you know, there's a guy who was here earlier in the 1860s. And up that connection, they would know him for sure. Yeah. They know that it helped me I was living over there and check it out. Yeah,
Speaker 1 1:33:24
I think I did look at one time. And I think on the map, I said, where I put it all on one. Yeah, I think the year of the preemption. So you can see the years apart if if the monks were they were all in 1875,
Speaker 2 1:33:37
that would be really good to have a set of those maps showing the progress of the settlement. And then how it kind of disappeared? Well, not it doesn't disappear, but attenuated. Yeah.
Speaker 1 1:33:50
And as he said, Matilda, that property that we're on now, must have been around the turn of the century. Because now Connor sold his property in 1902. Am I right? Maybe not he, he farmed himself until he was really old. And then 1900s 1905 John Norton funded?
Speaker 2 1:34:16
Okay, so which property we're talking about is important. Oh, trying to figure out the
Speaker 1 1:34:20
move from Portland to salt. Yeah. So he, I'm sure I've got somewhere in my records that John Norton farmed it till 1905 and John Norton was married to Emma Palau was she was she they were related. John Palau married and oak and I had
Speaker 2 1:34:45
I have to get North visit a Portuguese guy. Yeah. Yeah. Don't
Speaker 1 1:34:49
pull out and they they were important farming. No kind of land the descendants
Speaker 2 1:34:53
of that family around. The Palouse? No. Yeah. The Norton Palau Do you think it'd be called Norton's
Speaker 3 1:35:04
who was having to learn? Uncle Polly's dog? Boy have you?
Speaker 1 1:35:09
Maybe Sunday's son or brother I guess Yeah, I don't I don't know much about them. But it was all about that time between 1900 1905 I had the indenture that we sold to Clyde Phillips and it was in that area so that's probably when they dissolve spring is Development School was built 1904 were up and running open the uniting for how long it took them to build it. So rather than that, but it was that time that they moved to Salzburg to where we are so I wonder if we can find out who who was selling property at that time?
Speaker 2 1:35:49
Ya know where you find stuff like that?
Speaker 1 1:35:53
Well probably land search and that's Yeah, you made 50 bucks now
Speaker 2 1:35:58
the archives have some cash. I mean, this sounds like some grant money thing. Okay, well I have to go okay. We're gonna go dig clams where place we have a place on booth canal there on the outside. It's actually on the new it will potential families look at once. Oh, we have a special spot there. A little island dries right around now, which
Unknown Speaker 1:36:34
we used to do. Made from our place on those skeletons. Oh yeah. Let's see ya.
