Salt Spring Island Archives

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Audio

Kate Roland on First Nations-Kanaka Ancestry

8 February 2020

Accession Number
Date 8 February 2020
Media digital recording Audio mp3 √
duration 171 minutes

428_Kate-Roland_Hawaiian-FN-Ancestry-interview_8.02.2020.mp3

otter.ai

11.03.2024

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Outline

    Family history and cultural heritage.
  • Kate Rowland discusses family connection to Saltspring Island and its history.
  • William No, Connor and his family chose to move to British Columbia from San Juan Island due to the Hudson's Bay Company's decision to drive the border through their Gulf Islands.
    Family history and land ownership in British Columbia.
  • Speaker 2 discusses their great-grandmother Matilda, born in British Columbia, and her marriage to Peter George Roland, with an English mother named Catherine Brown.
  • William Melka and other Hawaiians settled on Portland Island in the 1870s after working for the Hudson's Bay Company.
  • They preempted land through the Dominion Lands Act, acquiring ownership of various areas around Salt Spring Island, including Fulford Harbor, Isabel Point, and Elenor Point.
    Saltspring Island history and genealogy.
  • Matilda moved her children to Saltspring Island to enroll them in school, specifically Isabella Point School.
  • Stan Harris, Matilda's oldest cousin, recounts how his father brought him to Saltspring to attend school, despite not being enrolled.
  • Speaker 2 mentions that Matilda Peterson bought land from John Barrel and later sold it to Nocona.
  • Speaker 2 provides information about the size of crown grants in the area, stating that they were typically 160 acres.
  • Sparrows and Musqueam connections in land ownership and settlement in British Columbia.
    Historical homes and families in a small town.
  • Speaker 2 mentions a cabin located near the harbor, which was possibly lived in by a man named Peter George Rowland.
  • Speaker 3 discusses the possibility of a Hawaiian house located on Isabella Point, and mentions a farm and barn located between Isabella Point and Isabella Road.
  • Shepherds' house visible from road, with history of children and descendants.
    Moving graves in a coastal town.
  • Mary Lumley's husband was John Polop, not Tony Polop as previously thought.
  • Speaker 2 shares a story about moving graves in the 1960s to make way for a new road, with controversy surrounding the move.
  • Speaker 3 mentions Emily Hepburn's efforts to find out where all the graves are in that area, with some records available but not much known about the move.
  • Speaker 2 discusses their family history, mentioning their grandmother Matilda and her knowledge of unmarked graves in a cemetery.
  • Speaker 3 joins the conversation and shares their own experiences with tracing family history, mentioning the challenges of deciphering old records and names.
    Hawaiian heritage and family history.
  • Paul is a son of Matilda, one of the Hawaiian sisters.
  • Speaker 2 recounts how their grandfather's arthritis led to him sitting and listening to his mother's stories, passing on cultural heritage.
    Chinook language and cultural heritage.
  • Speakers discuss the evolution of a local language, blending elements of various languages and dialects.
  • Participants discuss local slang and colloquialisms in the Pacific Northwest, sharing examples and reminiscing about their usage.
  • Grandpa and Matilda share stories of Uncle Paul, who remembered visiting the reserve as a young boy.
    Family history and cultural heritage.
  • Logging and fishing were main occupations in the speaker's family history.
  • Speaker 2 shares stories about their grandfather's nicknames for family members.
    Family history and name changes.
  • Bernie Reynolds is a first cousin to the speaker, whose father's name is Lloyd Roland.
  • Peter George's mother, Annie Fisher, had a blended family with his uncle Samuel after his father's death.
  • Mary took on two boys and raised them, then her husband died and she married Charles.
    Indigenous history and genealogy.
  • Discussion of DNA connections between speakers and Native American tribes in the Pacific Northwest.
  • Speaker 3 shares stories of Indigenous women in the area, including one born in NASS River.
    Native American history and culture.
  • Matilda's great-grandmother is the woman in a photo pinned upside down, causing confusion among speakers.
  • Speaker 3 reflects on their journey of learning about Native American history and culture, mentioning trips to Hawaii and learning chants.
  • Reporter Mary Cook follows Kamehameha School students to Victoria, BC, seeking a colony of Hawaiians.
    Hawaiian genealogy and family history.
  • Uncle Paul's story of being a descendant of Lono, the god of the North, was featured in a newspaper article after he was recognized as a loadall, causing a stir in Hawaii.
  • Uncle Paul met with a genealogist named Wayne County Davis, who helped him learn more about his Hawaiian and Indian heritage.
  • John Cox was a genealogist who helped connect the speaker's family history to Kamehameha the First through charts and genealogical research.
  • The speaker's ancestors were known for their extensive family histories and genealogical knowledge, with some people being able to recite their ancestry for days.
  • Speaker 2 mentions a family tree with 16 relatives, including eight who didn't have children.
  • Speaker 2 corrects a mistake in the family tree, citing documents to prove there was no uncle Benjamin Moore.
    Family history and burial places.
  • Speakers discuss family burial places, with some buried on property and others at a nearby church.
  • Speaker 3 shares stories about hunting and strategy in the mountains.
    Hunting and fishing in British Columbia.
  • Man shoots dogs chasing deer, knowing they were led by his neighbor's reputation.
  • Speaker 3 mentions seeing ducks and geese at the beach, while Speaker 4 talks about seeing porpoises and herring in the harbor.
  • (17 words)
  • Speakers 3 and 4 discuss the changing wildlife population in the area, including the absence of grieves and smelt.
  • (13 words)
  • Unknown speaker reminisces about clam digging in the area, mentioning specific types of clams and the location of the beach.
  • Speaker 4 describes how the beach has changed over time, with the introduction of mud and a new type of weed.
    Logging and beach destruction in British Columbia.
  • Speaker 3 mentions a clam beach and friendly plate, and how logging destroyed it (1:20-1:21).
  • Speaker 4 recalls seeing remnants of an old log shoot near their house (1:21-1:22).
  • Musgrave and Burgoyne are discussed as potential namesakes for a place on Saltspring Island.
    Hawaiian ancestry and language loss.
  • Speakers discuss language loss and preservation, sharing personal experiences and cultural insights.
  • Speaker 3 shares a story about a family member who owned land on Portland Island in the 19th century.
  • Speaker 2 provides information about the history of the land and how it was passed down through generations.
    Family history and Native American lineage.
  • Cecilia Parker's identity and connection to the Parker family are unclear due to conflicting information and unverified sources.
  • Speaker 2 discovers Native American ancestry through DNA testing and genealogy research.
    A historical photo and ancestry research.
  • Katherine Brown and Margaret were identified as belonging to the C haplogroup, which is associated with Plains Indian ancestry.
  • Joe Downey, George Shepherd, John Palau, and John Maxwell were identified as being in the picture, with Joe Downey being recognized by his distinctive hairstyle.
  • Speaker 2 mentions a picture of Malcolm and Juana, with Speaker 3 suggesting it may be from the 1900s.
  • Speaker 2 and Speaker 3 discuss the possibility of finding marriage records to narrow down the date of a picture, with Speaker 3 mentioning the Roman Catholic church kept records.
  • Speaker 2 mentions Maria Malloy, a family friend who inherited a large property in Salt Lake, and Speaker 3 clarifies that there is no known connection between Maria and the speaker's family through marriage.
  • Speaker 2's uncle Leonard provided death registration information for Maria's younger child, Ernie Fisher, who referred to the informant as his uncle, leading Speaker 2 to wonder if there was a connection between the two families.
    A man named Jackson and his connection to various places in the area.
  • Speaker 2 shares a story about Abel Douglas, a man who lived on Russell Island and had a sick clam beach near his house.
  • Speaker 4 recounts a story about John, who had a fire pit near his house and would hang a white sheet on the clothesline to signal for help.
  • Unknown speaker mentions "Jackson rock" and "Jackson islands" in Fulford Harbour, with some speakers believing it was named after a person named Jackson.
  • Speakers discuss the history of the area and its various names, including "clam garden," "plum garden," and "Jackson beach."
    Scallops and clamming in a coastal area.
  • Speakers discuss clam gardens, scallops, and archaeological work in Thailand.
  • Speakers discuss scallops, their size, and how to catch them.
    Hawaiian culture and traditions.
  • Speaker 2 discusses the tradition of hosting community luaus in Hawaii, where families and communities would come together to celebrate events and share food.
  • Speaker 3 asks about the origins of this tradition and whether it was passed down from earlier generations, with Speaker 2 mentioning that it was a family tradition that wasn't always called a luau.
  • Speakers discuss Hawaiian families, islands, and a murder case.
  • Fisher and Sarah's connection through college and their son George Fisher, who married Mariah McCoy.
    Family history and genealogy.
  • Speaker 1 mentions a "shingle mill" and "sumo notes" in the conversation.
  • Speaker 2 asks for the list of similar words and wants to connect with Geraldine for an interview.
  • Becky and her mother were in a photograph with other Hawaiian descendants, including Geraldine and Wendy Mauer.
  • The group visited Fulford Hall and found their spots in an old photo, with some people standing in the same spot as their ancestors.
    Family history and genealogy.
  • Family member Charlie's relatives are being discussed, including aunts and uncles.
  • Speakers discuss their families' interconnectedness through marriage and bloodlines in a small community.
  • Speakers reminisce about their childhood memories of visiting Victoria, BC.
    Audio transcript with mentions of John, software, and color coding.
  • Unknown Speaker suggests recording an interview with John, and Speaker 1 agrees to email about it.
  • Speaker 3 confirms receipt of a handwritten letter from a family member.
  • Unknown speaker discusses using color coding to organize information, while Speaker 3 shares stories about their Native American heritage.
    Language and cultural references.
  • “Joshua excels in all subjects, while cultural references and insults are exchanged.”
  • Speaker 8 shares words from a language course, including "fumble pauses" and "keep it black.”
    Language, culture, and history.
  • Speakers discuss language and cultural differences, using words like "mama," "schmuck," and "strombel.”
  • Speakers share memories and stories about their family members.
  • Woman records stories of high-ranking Indigenous people in Jamaica, intending to shed light on their histories and cultures but it doesn't go as planned.
    Oral histories, cultural preservation, and indigenous knowledge.
  • Mary Ellen White, a 95-year-old elder from the First Nations community, shared her experiences and stories with a researcher over six years, resulting in a book of 60 stories.
  • White's daughter or granddaughter, Ellen White, was one of the informants for the book, and the researcher met her to obtain full permission for the project.
  • Speaker 3 shares their PhD research on the cultural historical continuity of the Fraser River villages, highlighting the significance of traditional knowledge and the importance of preserving it.
  • Speaker 3 interviews a community member about the use of red paint in their culture, learning about its symbolism and meaning, but realizing that some information is too secret and powerful to share.
  • Speakers discuss Black history and archives, with mentions of Fran Morrison and Danny Caldwell.
    Audio recording and printing.
  • Unknown speaker discusses a "wow" sounding name and upcoming delivery.
  • Unknown Speaker discusses printing issues and finds a creative solution using double-sided tape.

Speaker 1 0:00
History. Just for the record, I'm gonna Yeah, but I'm just gonna, before I forget this part. So because we are recording this for the archives, and I'm actually going to record on two devices. Kate if you wouldn't mind just saying you know who you are and that you get permission to the archives to hope to have these holdings and we can go over them later. But for for publication purposes, research purposes,

Speaker 2 0:24
my proper name. Yep. I'm Katherine T. Rowland. And yeah, we're recording this where the the archives, it's all spring, I give full permission for them to use any and all that we gather here today. Thanks.

Speaker 1 0:39
And just say that Chris Arnett is going to be doing the interview,

Speaker 2 0:43
Chris Arnett is he's sitting right there drinking his D. Gathered rolling, but they call me Kate. So you're gonna you're Kate a lot.

Speaker 1 0:52
And John was hoping to be present. John Rowland was also hoping to be present he

Speaker 2 0:56
was and he's not gonna make it. Okay. Well, okay. Sorry to

Speaker 3 1:00
hear next time. Yeah, actually, it's probably better to do one on one interview.

Unknown Speaker 1:07
All right, I'm going to be mostly quiet. So I'm

Speaker 3 1:08
just gonna do all the talk. Okay, so what do you want to know? Okay, well, I'd like just to start off because, you know, there's a lot to cover, and I've got some specific kind of areas that I'm interested in. But maybe just to begin, you could talk about your family and its connection to Saltspring Island.

Speaker 2 1:27
That That question is asked a lot. How did you guys get here? And a lot of people don't believe that, that there were Hawaiian settlers here. But there was lots of settlers here, you know, but the Hawaiians got here. It was through the Hudson's Bay Company. They majority of them worked for them for years. So around about 19 or 1918 72. Our great grandfather, William No, Connor was an older man. He was not an employee of the Hudson's Bay Company, but he worked there. The Bellevue sheep farm on San Juan Island. They they grew fruits and vegetables and raised animals and to send up to the forest. Well, 87 to that, that's when they drove the border through our Gulf Islands and the sad ones. And anyone working on salmon Island was sort of left either you stay and become part of America, or you leave and you come to the British colonies. They were allowed to stay. But if they stayed, they had to get they had to leave where they were, they could not live on Simon Island, they were sent back to any reserves that were set up for the First Nations people, the majority of them, if not all of them had Indian wives. So they just wanted them to go back and, and integrate into the the reserves, the Indian communities, lots of them did. You know they had families already set up there. So they just stayed. The ones that didn't came across to Fort Victoria, James Douglas, offered them the, you know, the they wanted people up here in the British colonies to first settlers. So he extended the invitation to come, come and work here. And in BC, we'll allow you to, they wanted them to become naturalized citizens become British subjects. And then they could own land, they could vote they were British subjects. So I think the the decision to move here was pretty easy. You know. And now Connor, our great grandfather, he, he brought his family, his then family, he probably had many families along the way. So he brought his then family with him, and that was the ones that we know, we know his oldest daughter was Sophia. And then Cecilia, Annie, Julia, Marianne and Matilda. Matilda wasn't born at that time. She was one of only one of his daughters. It was born here in the British colonies, which is now Canada. The rest of the girls were born either on salmon Island, we have birth registrations, death registrations that put them either on San Juan Island. Sometimes it just said Washington, USA, sometimes it says Lummi island. So I'm not exactly sure where these girls were born or how that was written on those records. You know, a lot of it was just by word of mouth. They know when they passed on. It was what I'm gathering the information for their death registration. So a lot of them say they were born in Hawaii, and I don't believe any of those girls were born in Hawaii. It could have been that it's a stretch. I'm thinking they were the daughters of William now Connor to First Nations wife here, probably in the San Juan.

Unknown Speaker 4:49
We don't know her name.

Speaker 2 4:51
Well on on Matilda's marriage certificate his youngest daughter Matilda. Now as I said she was is born here on Portland island. So she was born in British Columbia. And on her marriage certificate to our grandfather, Peter, George Roland, it gives his the mother's name as Catherine brown. Now, that's obviously an English name given to this woman. That's all we have. And we've tried to look up any information on a Katherine Brown and, you know, they sort of just sort of threw a name on, on people that names were just really changed and moved around an awful lot. My grandfather's mother's name was Annie Fisher. So those were our our Indian connections, those two women. Both of the grand, great grandmother's, but given those English names, and no way to trace trace them. So I think William Melka, left sondland Island came up, probably about 1872. When they put the border through, they had to get out of there. So they were probably up in in Fort Victoria by 1872. By 1875. He was pre empting land on Portland Island. And that's because James Douglas had offered them land and for settling, so he opened up in this couch and district, the cells, cells Saltspring and those neighboring little islands called Island, Piers Island, Portland, Russell, all of the lands between us and Swartz Bay. They were all open so you could go out and just stake your claim, but 160 acres you were allowed to take. So only a few of Melaka left San Juan Island was 72 after working for the farm there. Spend a few years in Fort Victoria. Then in 1975, the preamps landed on Portland a lot of the other Hawaiians followed suit and they preempted land around so Saltspring the naoise were Isabel point which that name became Mahoney how Mayer was at Elenor point and he had Russell Island John cow that's that name is James de Peavine he was a beaver Point area. So there was a lot of them settled right to so Saltzman Fulford harbor no con our great grandfather Mel Connor and his his best friend John Palau. They own half of Portland Island each one owned lot, three and one one on two and four. Now his good friend Johnny Palau ended up marrying. Now Canada's oldest daughter, Sophia, and they took up land at Isabella point. Right on well, just close to roll and roll. And then no kind of daughters married and stayed close by. who stayed on the island. Sophia stayed. Julia stayed Julie married a shepherd stayed there. Maryann Mairead Peterson, that's the Danish Villa and stayed on Salzburg. And it's two other daughters Cecilia and Annie must have stayed in Victoria, because they both married in Victoria. We can find Cecilia on the census in Victoria. And he married and moved to Washington State magazine, the Millington. We only found her a few years ago. But they got to Salt Springs sort of by way of the Hudson's Bay Company working for them in the long run, open up land for preemption. And this is where they opened it. So they came here. Now kind of really didn't get to Saltspring until like he raised his his youngest daughter, our grandmother on Portland Island. She went to school to Beaver point they rode over to go to school. She boarded with the Oracles when when getting back and forth was not couldn't do it because of wind or bad weather. She made a board with them like throughout the week and then came home on weekends. You don't know that. But I know she did board with the Ruggles when she was going to school at Beaver point. I can remember what beaver point school was opened. She was one of 1877 and I think it was about 10 years later that they opened her point school so she started going there. Probably did her whole school year there. I think they only went to maybe grade four or five, six. That was about the end of their schooling back in those days. And then she had she had started her family on Portland island. So she had three or four children there. Her oldest was earnest, and he was taken and raised by her son Mr. Mrs. Peterson. Then she had Albert our uncle Kelly was there and Vianna at least those three were born on Portland Island, maybe even Eva. And that's when they wanted to open Isabella point school. Now to open another school, you had to have a certain quarter of children before they would go ahead and build the school and and so the my uncle, our oldest cousin, we call them uncle Stan, but he's he's because he's much older than us. But he's my first cousin, Stan Harris. He, he tells the story, he said that his father, they asked Matilda, if they would, she would bring her young son, Albert Harris, to Saltspring in a rural rural him in that school, so they would have the court of children to build it. He was not at school, he said, but they did it anyway. The dates don't really jive with that too well, but that's not to say that that wasn't the way they ended up here on Saltspring. If she moved to Salisbury, she could enroll her children in Isabel point school. So they ended up with that property on rollin drove where David still lives today. Now I've heard again from Stan cousin stem that no Connor bought it off of Mr. Peterson. I don't know that for sure. I don't know if Matilda didn't buy it. And she started raising a family there and brought her father over to keep him with her during his last years. So that's sort of a gray area, I went into the crown grants records, and found that that piece of land was first given as a crown grant to spare John's barrel. So if he had it first, he might have sold it to Peterson and Peterson might have sold it to Nocona. But you have to do a land search for that sort of information. Yeah. And I looked into that quite a few years ago, probably 10 years ago. And they said, you have to start with the first owner of the property and go, Oh, no, go with who owns it now and go back. And it was at least $50 For every search. And there's no gain on that since Matilda. And that school is Belle point. School was opened in 1904.

Unknown Speaker 12:26
I think that's where we visited

Speaker 2 12:29
the site. Yes. I think I looked that up and found that it was built in 1904.

Speaker 3 12:34
Just interested in Do you have any idea of size, the size of that crown ground? Like how big was that chunk of land? Originally,

Speaker 2 12:42
most of them were like 160 acres? Yeah. Yeah. A quarter section? I don't know if they all were,

Unknown Speaker 12:50
but that was a standard for prediction.

Speaker 2 12:53
Yeah, I have it somewhere in there shows the map and where the crown grants were. They didn't let me say the crown grant wasn't offered that you you preempted it first. So you got your 160 acres. And then you in five years, you had to improve it. Whether it was dig a well or cleared land, build a house, whatever, you had to do something to improve it in those five years. Then they gave you the crown grant then it was yours. And sometimes it was for free. Sometimes it was for very, very little money. I don't know what the difference was there. But I know some of them said they got it for free. But then I see William now Connors, we find that he paid like $1 an acre or something. Yeah, there was

Unknown Speaker 13:40
a nominal fee attached. Yeah.

Speaker 3 13:45
So he suspect and sparrows near marriage for Native women wasn't Norwegian, I believe and

Speaker 2 13:50
the variable name pops up a lot throughout our history. Dad worked with John Sparrow. Probably not that man who had the crown route problem, maybe his son because the same family, they're all buried at that little brown church crossing. And now the sparrows. Now I don't know much about them. I know that one of the one of the lovely girls married a sparrow. And they had a ton of kids Babbington Socks, socks was Lorenzo. Lorenzo Sparrow, they called him socks. And Babbington I've got pictures of them in their world war two

Speaker 3 14:34
outfits. My understanding is they have Musqueam connections.

Unknown Speaker 14:38
I think so marry

Speaker 3 14:39
the Musqueam woman and then maybe they moved here. Yeah, that's it because I have a friend who lives in Squamish. Squamish woman and she is rep is descended from him. She's only talked about her Saltspring connection through the sparrows and this woman moved here got this land, and so no Kana no Karna So that's where he settled on the rolling property.

Speaker 2 15:04
Now we're gonna Yeah, yeah, he's been his last year. So he was an old band by then. Okay, he died in 1909. He was 96. And if they didn't move over here until the when the school is going to be one that was 1904. So he wasn't here long, he probably just came over and stayed with his daughter. There was a story that he had a house. That was our workplace. And then just the next house over along the harbor where the plows and then up above them was the plows. And in between those two properties there was little cabin, apparently that no kinda lived in. But we've never never found any indication there was one there. There's no foundation or anything.

Speaker 3 15:49
That sounds like a job product geologists. Yeah. I'm talking to Dave. He said there's some cabin down there. He I think he pointed it out because you can see it from his place. Maybe the rain

Speaker 2 15:59
in front of us off the doubt. That was grandpa's house. Oh, Peter George Rowland. Okay, that was his place. We know where that is. That was there for a long time. But this would have been like as you're driving down this development before you get to Roland Road, okay. There was the house. A lot of housing. There was two Palau homes. And then there was let me call it that the rock we were going over to the rock it was Bob Jepsen, was living there when we were kids that I don't know who owned it first. But it was between that Jepson and the Palouse that there was supposedly this little cabin, where no conflict was a huge cherry tree right on the corner of that road that they said no kind of planted. Those would

Speaker 3 16:38
be really interesting things to document those actual sights and other things like the trees. Just while I'm talking to houses, you know, the missionaries as well Michener. Mitchener Yeah. Palmer and his daughter, they live on Isabella point and they live in through the rustic old house there. They told me that I was over there and they said it was a Hawaiian house a building upon on the right, like down Isabella paths, rollin

Unknown Speaker 17:05
o z going up past rolling down the

Speaker 3 17:08
hill, and they're up there's a farm down between Isabella point and or Isabella road and water, some barn down there. And then the materials have sort of crazy stuff red on the right, with this old building that's visible from the road. And it's an old classic kind of, you know, cottage with

Speaker 2 17:24
the big porch on the front. Yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, yeah. That's probably the shepherd place.

Unknown Speaker 17:33
Okay.

Speaker 2 17:34
We used to be able to use the seat and see them. There was no trees or anything between that right. So the shepherds Julia Shepard was Julian O'Connor. She married George Shepherd that's farther down. You know, are you talking way down the road? No, just fast rolling road. Yeah, yeah. It's just basketball on road on the right. Yeah, that's that's the blue house and

Speaker 3 18:03
then it's kind of a typical assaults just before it's

Speaker 2 18:09
just we all just before the school yeah, yeah, that's that's Julia Julian Alcon and George separate. And they they raised all well, they had lots of children, but only to survive to have children of their own money. Actually only one they had. They had their son Bill Shepherd and their daughter, Jean Shepherd. Jean Shepherd married Wilson, Levi Wilson. They didn't have any children. They raised a high child from the townies, and Bill Shepard had a whole passel of kids. Oh boy. Eight or 910 children, but they lived right up from where it were where grandma Rowland live, you could see their house, there's no trees, you can see and you can see them walking through the trail to get to get down there. So it was Hawaiian homestead in the fact that it was Julian O'Connor. She was the matriarch there. Yeah. Your Shepherd is her her husband.

Speaker 3 19:16
Yeah, just as an aside those are all good things. We should document even pictures of that house because I can see that place just burning down tomorrow. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because well

Speaker 2 19:24
you know, when you want to Fulford to Roland road, it's now like a bird sanctuary or a duck sanctuary or some place no pass be we're coming down. It's about point past bees and we've just just before rolling road. Who is it rubies? Oh, yeah. That was built by a Palau. Oh, that's an old homestead and right up top of the hill behind that. I don't know who lives there. Now. That was his father, John POLOP. And Sophia now So they lived up on the hill and their son lived in that Greenbelt. And one of these houses

Speaker 3 20:03
still standing. And while we're in the subject, material culture in that, remember we went inland a bit and there was a log cabin trip and that was a little Hawaiian sort of colony or something was at the lumley's or Harris's. Okay, that's

Speaker 2 20:16
right down the end of Isabella point. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That was now says Do you know this better? It was the the townie house and the lovely house. Yes. There's two of them. They're still standing. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 20:30
townhouses. They all want the red roof. And the people who built a new house in the field with a with a solid roof. Yeah, but they kept the old one standing.

Speaker 2 20:40
As always, we didn't see that one. No. Yeah. And it's still there. And I should ask them, I don't know if it's there. Yeah. And when we did go to is the lovely house. Now that was Mary Lumley. She married Bill Lumley. Okay. Married was marrying Alana. Or townie? You see that that's the name that changed there. She was born to not wanna. But they somewhere along the line he used to down I don't know, I've never been able to figure that out. That's

Speaker 3 21:16
an unusual name Tony and I was thinking in the Polynesian language or monitor you have something telephony? It means the jaw, if that's a literal translation, like ONi is John.

Unknown Speaker 21:28
Kay, only in Hawaiian is John. Okay.

Speaker 3 21:31
So it might just be like a nickname. You know, Hey, John, you know, white people get

Speaker 1 21:38
Geraldine supposed to be coming down maybe during spring break, being lonely, so maybe

Speaker 3 21:47
she would know. Okay, that would be cool. Because I've interviewed Stan's like a lot of information on his DuckTales stuff. Retirement. Yeah. Okay, maybe we'll shift back into your Rowlinson. Okay, so the econo Okay, he died. You told me that interesting story, and I think it's good to just get it down about moving his grade.

Speaker 2 22:11
Now what year was in the 60s? I really can't remember when they moved the road. See that road always follow the ocean along over to Fulford and the church course is built right right on the hill there and the graveyard game. Oh, from the church down towards the road. There's lots of old pictures of St Paul's Church. Okay, so you can see where it came down to there was little fence. Well, they weren't they decided they wanted to move the road. I don't know if maybe it was sloughing off into the ocean or what was what the thing was, but they wanted to move the road and to move it where they wanted, they had to move some of those graves. So now kind of scrape like the to how the grave is still the right there on the corner is like pretty darn close to the road. So our guys must have been even closer than that. And they moved now Karnas William Elkins grave and his daughter Maryanne Nocona. Peterson, and they're over in that new little section. I think there was a lot of controversy. I don't know what happened with that, or I think they they didn't want them to move it. But they were going to move it and it was this sort of push you bull needs a thing. And then I think it just got done

Unknown Speaker 23:29
in the middle of the night and just moved to

Speaker 3 23:33
the new grave. Yeah, they might have been like everything he's he's probably might

Unknown Speaker 23:39
still be there. They might have moved

Unknown Speaker 23:40
a bronco. They just moved the markers, ya know, sliding down the bank again. onto the road. Yeah. So

Speaker 1 23:47
you're basically thinking that there's grades under the road? Probably.

Speaker 2 23:52
Unless they move them properly, they would have to zoom and move it properly. I don't know. I think Lonnie has as my niece Lonnie has looked into the highways people to see well, there's got to be some sort of paperwork when you move that road like what happened. But I think even even now she's getting sort of stonewalled. Well, you know, we don't know much about

Unknown Speaker 24:14
did you ever talk to Emily Hepburn?

Speaker 2 24:18
I have in the past I don't know if she knew anything about that. I

Speaker 3 24:21
just remember she she was trying to find out where all the grades were that area because you know, just sort of getting an idea. Yeah. Some records but I don't know.

Speaker 2 24:30
My Church. Yeah. My grandmother. Matilda. No. and Mrs. Aikman Dorothy Aikman or was it Dorothy that took the wrote it down for her. But during this oh, those women. I think it was Dorothy Aikman was taking down the information from my grandmother Matilda because she said Matilda knows where the graves are. Okay, so she gave the names and I I have to look up that it's just a handwritten piece of paper. And it's got all the names of the people that were in the graveyard that the graves are unmarked. Now I think a lot of them were just like little wooden crosses, and there's some big stone markers, but the ones that weren't more permanent, just sort of faded away. So she knew them. And so she gave this information to Dorothy Aikman. And if it's written down, like maybe it was written in the way where they were buried, spatial I yeah, I've never I've never thought about, but that's the information we gave to Emily. And she wanted to put a marker for all those people who's who are buried there. But their names are not. But she didn't want to put up a plaque because he didn't want to misspell anyone's name. Again for that, yeah. Well, that's true. Because even the names we give like, no covenants grade is in a UK I am

Speaker 3 25:57
English names. I mean, I've traced a lot of my history back and it's the same English spelling things are in yet spelled different ways. Anderson all these names. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. Pick one that kind of looks good. Yes, the whole time

Speaker 2 26:10
in history that it just seemed like it mattered. But like it was, oh, well, whatever. And or sun Sol and understand this. You know, yeah, we'll see these records. And you know, it's the right people are Yeah, but it's changed with ours with the Hawaiian news because they were rather difficult sometimes to to pronounce or write then they, they'd either give it a shot. So it was it was always different. Or they wouldn't bother at all nice. Well, we'll call it brown. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 26:43
You're talking about the Indian name.

Speaker 2 26:46
Don't get us started about that. So difficult, very difficult to trace a lot of this history. A lot of times you have to look okay, where are they living? Okay, well, that's the right spot. Who else is in the household? Easy? Well, there's the list of the children. This is the same guy. There's somewhere and I can't remember I got so much information on this guy. For our grandfather, William now kinda. I think it's in the state. I think he's in Washington State. I don't get those records very often. But he it's his daughter's names. You can see them but he is the head of the household is John handy. Really handy. John handy.

Unknown Speaker 27:25
Somebody gave him that.

Speaker 2 27:27
He was a handyman, I guess. And then well, we'll call you John. So it was either him, and that's the name they hung on him. Or it could have been the girls were staying with an uncle or somebody but this name Andy's. That's about the only time it ever pops up. But there yeah, there it is. Wow.

Speaker 3 27:46
Okay, let's go back to them. Now, Khan is on the island. He's dead. has passed on. Yeah. Um, so Hawaiian community are wines and now established here. And you knew his or your grandmother was his daughter. Okay, so what do you remember about these elders? Like just generation? old timers? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 28:11
Matilda. Matilda died in 1943. I think she was 65 which is 65 system. Lee remembers her sister Lea remembers her just vaguely Lee was born 42.

Unknown Speaker 28:26
Yes. Yeah, I know. I was in that house. Yeah, yeah. So

Speaker 2 28:30
it's that sort of memory that you know, you know,

Unknown Speaker 28:33
I have quite a few memories before. I was four years old. And I remember lots of stuff, but it's very vague, but I know that mum took me there to that house.

Speaker 2 28:46
Yeah. And the memories. The family speaking about grandmother would have been more when she was younger. And eventually, you know, just sort of peters out. We were

Unknown Speaker 28:56
living right in Fulford underneath the rock salt.

Speaker 2 29:03
Yeah, so rob them of Matilda and her sisters. All I know is what was told to us that came down to the story on Uncle Paul was sort of the one that tried to keep all this alive. He knew that we were home of Hawaiian descent and Indian descent, okay, and he knew that a lot of that history is just gonna disappear. Yeah, he knew that so many of these families like, like the Palouse, and that name changed to Palo or pelo and and then the marriages of the daughters the names change so now it's not even Hawaiian name is shepherds and the Petersons and the Cordis Aidells. And so he knew that that was gonna get lost if he didn't say like, this is how we're all related. You know, and he just wanted to find out how.

Speaker 3 29:53
And so how does Paul fit into the the sisters is he's a son and one of them is the son of Matilda, Matilda, okay. And he's the family of Surya you remember him very well. So he must have introduced you to this heritage obviously. So what's your earliest memory of that? When did you realize you're probably

Speaker 2 30:15
back when we were may maybe between six and 10 years old. He was always after us to sit and listen. Yeah, come here he was he was he was crippled so he couldn't look around. So he sat facing forward and we'd be over here and he said, Come here. Come here. We're here and he pushed himself Sally's Amarah, you know your kids. You say sit down, listen to me. Now. I'm gonna tell you story. You got to remember this. This is this is your obligation to pass this along. And then he started telling us these stories to his mother and the sisters and this shepherds. And he would hold us as long as he could. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 31:05
What you're sharing with us today? He did. And he did it off

Unknown Speaker 31:07
this

Unknown Speaker 31:10
generation before. 15 years old. Okay. So yeah, he did the same with that. He spent a lot of time in the kitchen with his mom, from the time he was 14 or 15, like crippled up to five riotous

Unknown Speaker 31:24
arthritis. And

Unknown Speaker 31:25
so his mom passed the history to him. And then he passed it on to us and all of us.

Speaker 2 31:35
Yeah, had it not been for him being sort of crippled up with that arthritis. He might not have ever sat there and listened to his mother. I think she just probably rattled on and on and on just to entertain him like, yeah, he's interested.

Unknown Speaker 31:50
Oh, he was.

Speaker 2 31:53
Yeah, he was one of 16 children. And, and so the rest of them were out digging clams and fishing and doing the garden and pumping water from the well, they were doing chores. And if he'd have been a healthy boy, he'd went out there with the rest of them. Right, instead of sitting at her her table listening. So so she really imparted a lot of this wisdom to him. She didn't speak the language. What she spoke was shut up. The trade language, mostly English, but all of that up just kept is inter jected into our our even today.

Speaker 3 32:32
Yeah, let's talk a bit about that. Because we came up briefly on that tour. What? What memories you know, can you were you talking about certain types, it was a different pronunciation here in other places through some distinction.

Speaker 2 32:44
I think it just it morphed into different pronunciations. Like when I got the I got a dictionary of the Shinnok language. And one word in particular, was Quas. And in the book, it was spelled QW A S S. Now, and it meant you were afraid. You were afraid. Uncle Paul called it squats. He put an S into so it wasn't cost it was costs. So just that slight difference, right? But it was the same thing. If you were scared to do something, he said don't be squats. We get over there. They're gonna be the class. And so things like that Kiwanis. We always call it the killer whales Kiwanis that st Chinook Kiwanis sailors. Yeah, yes, yes. When Yeah, you see that the whole language was bits and pieces of the Indian language and English and Hawaiian and whatever. They could smoosh it together. And everybody understood it. Did you have any other words? Oh, gosh, there was so many I have a I have a wrote down with the English rolling standard dictionary of all of the news. Yeah. Cultus Lima, Cultus Colima and you got sometimes he had to say it twice. cultist cult it's not three times.

Unknown Speaker 34:11
Yeah, yeah, office Colima. Saltus these

Unknown Speaker 34:13
they call this when you were stupid

Unknown Speaker 34:18
and kalima wait can't wait

Unknown Speaker 34:23
referring people are just coming up

Unknown Speaker 34:29
with two words together caucus Colima stupid

Speaker 3 34:33
like it yeah, that's while I was there just expressions just common part of everyday speech. Yeah, I mean, I even heard bits when I was a kid. I mean like stuff like salt chuck

Speaker 2 34:47
some Skookum chart they're still around. Oh, yeah, you can still the most people don't know that. They were should look language. Yeah, they're still around and they are Oh man, there's so many now what can I think of them? Because it's fun. Cool, Alex,

Speaker 3 35:06
this is good that you see, no, I see this interview is just sort of the beginning of maybe further conversations. Go back and think about that, you know, gonna be awesome. Just get a big list of this guy or whatever.

Speaker 2 35:17
I have a standard dictionary. Yeah, we should have some, because some of them you know, in the dictionary, I put together some of the MERS you know, some are Indian, and some Hawaiian words. They were all part of our daily speech around the house.

Speaker 3 35:34
Yeah, I remember Stan talked about that too. And he remembered some of them like berries of top coat and stuff or squid either. Squeezy.

Speaker 2 35:46
Squeezy. Hey, Mark, is octopus. What was smoked salmon. Qualche quality module, which is deer is a deer and that's shotgun. That's a knife.

Unknown Speaker 36:05
Yeah, cool. Salish. But that's, I mean, yeah, keep going. Yeah, you'll think of more? Yeah, later. Yeah. Well, that's super interesting.

Unknown Speaker 36:18
Over the years, one of us will think of a word that is probably not on the list. And they're popping out. That's

Speaker 2 36:26
right. And then there's, there's those words in there that are just strictly Rowland isms that we've made up we know, we think everybody else. Okay. real distinct.

Speaker 3 36:41
dialect. Yeah. You remember any, just any words for land, based on records? Places or landscapes that nothing can place things? I don't think there would be any but

Speaker 2 36:57
I know most of the place names were Indian names. Like Taiwan, mount. Guam was John. But again, spelt? Not, not correctly. Yeah, they pronounced it differently admirals and he called this place admirals island here for a while.

Speaker 3 37:17
So getting back to something called Paul. He must have talked about the relationship to the native people entity. I mean, did he talk with him? I'm sure he knew his your connection to the indigenous people to the I don't know much interactions yet. Did the family that time? No. Any native people when they come and visit or? Only family? Yeah, that's what Stan sort of said. No Native

Unknown Speaker 37:45
families? No. offspring.

Unknown Speaker 37:47
Not? No.

Speaker 3 37:50
Because the last family let well, they were the ones that lit the reserve there who passed away or

Speaker 2 37:57
just crossed the harbor? Yes. Yeah. That would sound with Charlie and his wife, Mary. Yeah, call them all Mary. He used to come across to me. I don't remember him. I remember the stories of him coming across and that was 14. Look again. Kahala, you have to come home. Come next. Go.

Speaker 3 38:16
Come so okay. Yeah. What memories family members you have of the people that lived on that reserve.

Speaker 2 38:22
Again, it was all through Uncle Paul. The old fella would come Roy rolling across this thing. He stood up in the boat and paddled across and he would yell Chloe. Oh, your climax to be Joko. So they would speak that Chinook. And it was just sort of like, you know, hello, my friend. I'm coming. And he's come over here and pick berries. He'd come over and just yeah, he's Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 38:49
9020 Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 38:51
Just to clarify, who's he's speaking to?

Speaker 2 38:55
Grandpa and Matilda. The kids were pretty young by then he died in 1920. Something like that. Yeah. And Uncle Paul was born 1915. So he might have remembered as a young boy. Yeah. Mostly coming over to visit the striking

Speaker 3 39:09
figure coming over. Yeah. Super nice. So at that time, how are people making a living in that time like what's

Unknown Speaker 39:21
Well, the generation

Unknown Speaker 39:23
killed

Speaker 2 39:25
his generation. Those men now can that be for father? What did they do? I guess they were loggers. Fishermen

Unknown Speaker 39:34
fishermen. They used to do clams and sell clams. They wrote, wrote a Sydney

Unknown Speaker 39:42
mixed economy to do everything.

Speaker 2 39:44
Or what a rapid and he was a logger. It was a long see most of the there was no Conor overs. He came out of the Hudson's Bay Company. But then his daughters, of course they were the homemakers. So if you think of what there has they're doing. They were grandpa was a logger. I don't at the shepherds were loggers. So it's logging, logging, logging and fishing. So it's Randolph, I guess. Yes. A lot of went up to Port Alberni. That way dad definitely logged the Port Alberni Duncan

Unknown Speaker 40:16
cool home lake his name I remember leached down

Unknown Speaker 40:23
on incoming that same

Speaker 3 40:25
kind of story of Sam was telling me about his family you know the middle it were tears as much as it could you know worked off I'm

Speaker 2 40:33
a lot yeah fishermen they went with summer and winter

Unknown Speaker 40:39
and of course haunted locally yes a

Speaker 2 40:41
lot a lot of subsistence farming just keep keeping the farm going just enough animals for your family or for trade murder

Unknown Speaker 40:53
that just to call it a stone cringe.

Unknown Speaker 40:55
Yeah

Speaker 2 40:58
we had a cow gonna have a calf every year, every everyone who we called Birdman.

Speaker 3 41:03
So do you remember sort of an iconic story that Uncle Paul would tell you?

Speaker 2 41:10
Interesting. John would be better. Oh, yeah. Diverse in that. John was the firstborn son. Oh, dad. So we had our oldest sister Ethel them Lee. Then he went off to World War Two. When he came back, he had John John was the blue eyed boy.

Unknown Speaker 41:28
He came back I was just four. Yeah, and three years later. That's when they had John. So

Speaker 2 41:34
John spent a lot of time with dad and grandpa probably Uncle Paul. So he remembers those stories he was out there Negro and up so that's why I wanted him to get into that because he would know those stories he remembered and he tells a story often about Chi Chi to hony which would mean the Nawaz and it's either not one or new one. So there's that change there that name also and he was the one it was Isabella point school and he sent his kids there and the teacher I can't remember what year it was but the teacher was Mr. Cook okay when clearly my color go up and he kept his kids won't move school and he was just sort of like you know, just being really weird. And finally he was visiting and and the teacher showed up just by chance and he was just like, Oh, Mr. Cook I know Caleb your grandfather book John's favorite stories you remember that? Guy down he used to call them cabal Kai nicknames for everybody.

Unknown Speaker 42:51
It would cause nice food or it could be well ocean or water salt way

Unknown Speaker 43:00
wise freshwater

Speaker 3 43:02
Yeah, that's right. Why Well, I guess you know about that sound shit and why and they said a lot of it was usually teased in the missionaries turned into the K like to me I mean, come in maybe there's some like distinction

Unknown Speaker 43:19
duties which changed the case.

Speaker 2 43:22
That was another one two h and are the Maoris had not Mallory's? Yeah. All right. All right now

Speaker 3 43:34
the we used to have the CDL so the mission Yeah, they didn't seem to us down there. Like we have a silent couple Rocky, which means the evening sun low or something. And it's not called Rocky winter but in the past is lucky.

Unknown Speaker 43:47
Me Swan l you know, will change. That's what happens if you get become literate. Yeah. So that So Paul, so um, what other?

Speaker 3 44:00
So that was called and he has brothers siblings. You remember

Speaker 2 44:05
he was one of 1616 Right? Cuz he was Dad was 13 of 16. So Paul was 14 and 16. So the youngest sibling was Lloyd Lloyd round. He was he's 16 of 16. And he died before his child was born. So we only have one cousin Bernie Reynolds is his son. So Mary Hiscox was the mother she married. Chester Reynolds, I think a couple years after Bernie was maybe two, but she raised him as a Reynolds basement there Thanksgivings, and Christmases as as the Reynolds clan, and he said she never brought him around to see his uncles and Auntie's. Roland,

Speaker 1 44:52
can I just interrupt So Bernie Reynolds is a relative to Bernie, my first cousin. So he's out actual last name would be Roland.

Speaker 2 45:03
His father was Lloyd Bernard Roland, and he's Bernard Lloyd Reynolds. When he took

Unknown Speaker 45:09
his kids back because he, he christened them named with Reynolds. Yeah. And he was

Speaker 2 45:17
like they never did an adoption. So he used that name growing up. Yeah. But on his birth registration is Roland. So when he had his own children, his marriage and stopped, they went, well, we can't register these kids. If your name is Roland, we can register them as well. So we had to do the whole name switch and everything. A lot.

Unknown Speaker 45:37
He says character. Yeah, he's our youngest first cousin.

Speaker 3 45:41
So I'm curious. Who's Who is rolling the first Roland. I'm gonna name of Pierre.

Speaker 2 45:48
Peter, George Roland, but he was born Peter George Harris. Okay. Now that's trying to keep track here. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no. Yeah. Good. Thing is on Dave's need to listen back because it gets it gets sort of mixed up. Okay. BTW George Roland, he was raised with the roll name. He was born as Harris. So his parents were any Fisher this in new momentum. They called any Fisher we don't know her Indian name. And his father was Samuel Harris. He was an Englishman from Cornwall, Cornwall, England. So Samuel Harris died eight months before Peter Jones was born. Okay, so so he was born as Harris but he never ever knew his father. So mother, Annie Fisher, she was she was not doing well. She was drinking a lot and just not raising her children. She had a family already. She had five children with Samuels brother James. So she was married James Harris, and had Jimmy, Priscilla, Angelina, Martha and Charlie. So if you had these children already, he leaves, whether he was chasing gold or whatever, but he leaves the family unit. She hooks up with his brother Samuel. Okay. He had two children, his wife has died or whatever. So he's alone with two kids. She's alone with five. They hook up. And they often brothers would take responsibility for the brothers, children and stuff to raise the family. So now they're this blended family, brother and sister in law raising their own separate families. But together they had Peter George, whom he never knew. So she was just falling apart. As far as raising this family. The oldest three of this blended family went to work. They were teenage boys and a teenage girl. They went working. The three youngest girls in that family were scooped up by Thomas Crosby mission. And they went up to Fort Simpson to the girls mission, and then left Peter George, our grandfather, and his youngest half brother, Samuel Harris, Jr. They ended up being raised by the woman who was their neighbor, which we found out later was Annie Fisher's sister, Mary Fisher. She took them on and raised those two little boys. But her husband was a Danish guy named Herman late. Le ich T.

Unknown Speaker 48:47
Ah, he's married. This

Speaker 2 48:49
is Mary's husband. She's taken on the two little boys and her husband Herman. So he was known as Peter that. They called it leech le e ch. But his name was le ich T. Use a Danish guy. So they raised those two boys for a couple of years, and then he died. So now here's the ante with these two little kids. Samuel is old enough to start working. He was seven when she took them on. He was 1213 year old he went out I think he ended up being a bricklayer. There's still there's Peter George, who's still a pretty young boy. She marries Charles roll it. She still has Peter George Harris with her. He takes on that role in name and they move to Washington State. He was raised down there. He was on the census in 1900. We see him there as Peter George Roland. So that's how he got the name Roland. And then by 1908 I believe his oldest daughter was born here or auntie rose I'm here with with Matilda, at Isabella point. So from 1901 monies or 1900 when he's on the census in there at 16 to 1908. So when he's 24 he's back in, in Canada and having his family all his rulings. And then he had nine children. So his wife Matilda had already had six with Jimmy Harris and then she had nine with Peter George who was his half brother and those half brothers were sons have two full brothers let's see it's it's a mixed up one That one

Speaker 1 50:45
I can't even get my mind around that statement. Those half brothers were the sons of two full

Speaker 2 50:50
brothers those James and Samuel Harris. Okay. Add Jimmy and Peter Harris right. So they're half brothers. Yeah, these two full brothers have these so they're first cousins and half brothers, because they both share the same mother Annie Fisher and who's Eddie Fisher we

Speaker 3 51:14
have a line on that the name called tenant comes up with somebody I believe me I was talking to Jean barman about it but any they may be from Connecticut.

Speaker 2 51:24
Put a good title and and Sikkim on call tonight. We're less than not. There's another one in there because it looks like an art but that's all handwriting. You know. I'm

Unknown Speaker 51:36
from like, Catholic

Unknown Speaker 51:39
Diocese. Yeah. We have we have? baptisms. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's

Speaker 3 51:50
interesting. Two sisters, Mary Fisher, that guy any Fisher? Because you know, when the multi was destroyed. The people left and Nobody's really sure where everybody went. So I went to Musqueam. Some may have come here and married, you know, for the settlers

Speaker 2 52:08
with the the Panella connection

Speaker 2 52:16
with the DNA thing we've been doing lately, do you know rocky Samson? Oh, yeah. Okay. Rocky has done his DNA. I've done mine and Brother Dave Lee's in there with her. And there is a DNA connection between us. I know we are connected to the Samson clan in three different spots along our family tree, but it's all through marriage. So there was no blood relative from them. But with the DNA, there's a definite connection between the Indian yes, if it goes back into now connahs era and the pummelled that Annie Fisher that that area, then if there was some canoodling going along there between the Penelope people and any of the Hawaiians then that could have been our DNA connection.

Speaker 3 53:03
I just know from the histories, you know, Panella cut the multi had strong connections to the Bellevue area of San Juan, because it was part of the British territory. I even have an account from 1856 where they accused the loyalty of stealing cattle from Bellevue, I'm gonna count from 1856 When the ship goes into the multi Bay and near the multi, we're taught and they actually fired on the on the Hudson's Bay Company gunboat, not because of the that it was a British boat, because but they had some Cowichan on board that they were enemies with. And the gumbo didn't or the Hudson's Bay both didn't retaliate. multiword characters at that time? That was before you know that the balance of power shifted to native have people have lots of power here? Oh, yeah. For? You know, I think a lot of the early settlers, maybe even your family, probably. And you're probably well aware of it too. At the time, you know, they just know who was really in charge with the shifting balance of power, you know, as the the land use change, because I think a lot of these native women that appear and need some story they did, you know, ancient connections here, especially the one who married now on to the lovely, Oh,

Speaker 2 54:17
silly chair. So, yeah, what did he Lea shy? Yeah,

Speaker 3 54:22
she was supposed to be born in salt spray. I mean, I came across one account. I don't know how they would know that except through Catholic.

Speaker 2 54:28
Yeah. Geraldine will probably know a lot of that history. They followed that line. I know of them, because it definitely connects with us. But I think they've dug deeper and there's one of their connections and Bill Lumley talks about it often is the grandmother or mother's and was born in NASS river comes from NASS River. How he figures that out? I don't know. But that would be his research. And I don't know if that's, is that the woman he's talking about? Or is?

Unknown Speaker 54:57
I really don't know. All I know is that he He used to go kick his boat and go up to the mass. And

Speaker 3 55:02
there would be you know, there was a Hudson's Bay Company place up there to go.

Speaker 2 55:10
Picture for I think it's her I have some full, hidden shoulder shot of her. And she's got a pin on that says Canada is a little. What else is Canada? But it's she's pinned it on upside down. So like if she was looking at it this way.

Unknown Speaker 55:28
Yeah, there we go.

Unknown Speaker 55:33
I think that's I think that's the picture I have before

Speaker 3 55:35
you really? The matriarch. Yeah. Wow. Did she have like little round glasses?

Unknown Speaker 55:41
No glasses.

Speaker 3 55:44
Did we have a copy that we're gonna get that wide,

Speaker 2 55:47
wide flat face brown skin? Color, and then this scan is upside down?

Speaker 3 55:57
Because yes, Dan, you know, he was even thinking there's some Slauson connection there. But you can't he said, Sure.

Speaker 2 56:04
Oh, yeah. Uncle Paul always told us that Matilda's mother. So this would have been the woman who married no Connor was from it was C Scheldt. It was so awesome. Was just Salish. It changed a lot to say Metlakatla Metlakatla. Yeah, so I remember that name. Because it was on my nose where she?

Unknown Speaker 56:31
It's on the chart, isn't it?

Speaker 3 56:32
No, it's a missionary village was organized by this Duncan fella. Who was a where was it? It was up in north Prince Rupert. And it was sort of a model kind of Christian town for Indians. Who said well, you know, really kind of Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 56:50
Yes. Wow.

Unknown Speaker 56:57
You're getting a picture to the chip. Oh, she looks like Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. See this bin. But you know, what is very lovely, isn't it?

Speaker 1 57:08
I think the photos flipped upside down. The photo itself is flipped, I imagine.

Speaker 3 57:15
Well, this is interesting, because that looks like the woman I mean, he stands grandma. And here it says this is his great grandmother. It could be maybe she had the same name could

Speaker 2 57:27
be or you know, as I said it looks like

Unknown Speaker 57:32
who was native? It

Speaker 2 57:34
does Oh, and it could be because I said I don't know the along the line very well. And I think Bill gave me that and I

Speaker 3 57:42
yeah, that's Mary let me in but I've got it there is a picture of the grandma. Remember there's a shot. I was just looking at this morning and Charles cans but there's sort of a group shot of the Harris's down and Fulford harder and you're sitting around a log and and she's in that picture. She's a really old lady wearing a little round glass. Do you have that one? Yeah. Yeah. And

Speaker 3 58:14
understand native history that would help us with those names. Classes. Just someone who speaks the language and you kind of go I know a woman of Florence James with all these lists of names and the Douglas treaties and and it's really hard for them to figure out what what the white people were writing down were you looking for

Speaker 2 58:42
the picture of it being one of those books? Do you have your Charles book here? Even tom, tom gobble Yeah, I think it's on the cover that's on the cover that one. Got those two lonely brothers who were killed in World War One? Yeah. That's right. We know this. Farms. No, no, I don't wear all my books at all. You're all in here somewhere.

Speaker 3 59:19
So when did you sort of start your journey of discovery because you've really gone you know, you've gone to Hawaii, and you've learned some chants and things and all that. So when did you kind of have that realization? This is something you want to know more

Speaker 2 59:34
about? Well, it's been a long time now. 30 years 30 or 40 years? Just let me see it in 1972 Mom and dad and I went to Hawaii. For the first time. Uncle Paul went in, I think 70 and 71. And then we followed behind him 72 I mean, he might have went after that to maybe 1970 was his first trip. that leaves your sister Sophie with him. Brother John.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:03
This is something he always wanted to do.

Speaker 2 1:00:05
Yes, that was when the woman who was a reporter for The Honolulu Star advertiser newspaper, Mary Cook, mother cook. She was up here following or doing story and following. It was a group of Kamehameha School students who were up here to share their culture and song and dance through their school to places up here. So she was just following along and writing the story. They had done a show in Vancouver. And then they were on the ferry heading to Victoria to do a show there. And it was Croft and Pat Croft and was sort of assigned as their guide to get them around from place to place. And on the way over on the ferry, he pointed out as they were coming through paths back to pass heading for Swartz Bay, and he's a little old there's a colony of Hawaiians lifted. Reporter we're calling on the Hawaiians so I think that's how he said there was a colony of Hawaiians living over there. And so she did her story on their, their school musical project, and then I think they had a couple days off so she got on the ferry and came over and asked it to Fulford store Patterson store. I'm looking for this colony of Hawaiians who lobby the roelens. So she says, Oh, can you point me they had a rapper bra. I don't think she had a car. I think he loaded her in his truck. Down the road, and he says, that's the Roland house. So she came down, knocked on the door. said, Oh, you must mean a husband. So she called dad around and around the corner. He came as he was just like, Oh, you look on the wind and the winds down. Oh, wow. So she came in and talk with them. Uncle Paul. Of course, Uncle Paul launches straight into his history. Well, you see, so once all came over and told her the whole story, and then she went back and wrote up this huge article. In the paper, last Hawaiians. Oh, we didn't know we lost

Speaker 3 1:02:21
all of your copy that article somewhere? Yeah, we got it.

Speaker 2 1:02:26
So it was this huge article down there. And they were just like, whoa, and they had this old legend where Lono was the god of the North, he was going to come back and then unite the people and everything. So all of a sudden Uncle Paul is being known as loadall. And so they made quite a stir over him as though she they paid CPR at the time. TPR and the advertiser newspaper, paid for their trip down there, putting them up in the holly colonial zanzi They were all shot in three weeks.

Speaker 3 1:03:00
So they heard it. So this woman wrote the story in the colonist, I guess and then somebody heard about it in Hawaii. No,

Speaker 2 1:03:06
she went back to Hawaii. Oh, sorry. Yeah, this is woman from shore group. Okay. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:16
When all sorts of people showed up to see this guy, Tom, and he had so many. Yeah. Well, there was

Speaker 2 1:03:24
300 over 300 people at the airport to lead with the name now. Awesome, because it might be their family.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:31
Quite a trip for him.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:32
Oh, man. Yeah,

Speaker 3 1:03:34
he met George for you. Yeah. How did you feel when you went back to Hawaii? There

Speaker 2 1:03:38
it was just like, Whoa, this is like this is this is where our folks came from. Up until then, it was always interesting. And it was, you know, we knew we were part Hawaiian and part Indian and stuff, but we didn't know much about it. And I was in this is sort of like driving at home. But when Uncle Paul arrived, that first time, they had set him up with a genealogist Wayne County Davis. And he worked for like the, I don't know, some these big groups that are like the sons of Hawaii. And you know, he was into it. That was his thing, genealogy. And so he sat with them at the holy colony hotel. And Uncle Paul gave him whatever he could as far as the names and who was married to who and how it works. And this guy wrote it all down and came up with these charts, family charts as best he could. And he's the one that hooked it to John Cox. Because you get back that far eases and then the people came over 1811 This is the list of people that went so there's your connection there. So yeah, so it was it was that genealogist John county Davis that really sort of opened our eyes to that. Because if we can connect right to John Cox now Connor, the fellow who came over in 1811, as the eyes and ears for Kamehameha the First First then because he is of a li status he was one of the chiefs will have come to him as chiefs and Sons then that history from there goes way back into their way back

Speaker 3 1:05:15
further yeah I mean like it's saying the Maori one I can go back to about 800 ad done multiple lines every single person and all every kind of gets a little attenuating until spirits and Gods show up

Unknown Speaker 1:05:28
yes it's all it's all in there chance

Unknown Speaker 1:05:30
yeah

Unknown Speaker 1:05:31
yeah for the pre history can

Speaker 3 1:05:32
be local. Yeah, we yeah, we call the fucka Papa This means making layers yeah because your ancestors you lay them down the whole trip because everybody knew their history and people knows they didn't right but they can memorize and sometimes they would recite these genealogies would take literally days. And you know, people just don't have we can do it today. No writing is destroyed all that. Yeah, writing is I mean, it's been great person in some ways, but in other ways.

Speaker 2 1:06:01
Uncle Paul was good at it. Yeah, yeah. Reciting off who was who and married to who and how good downs. He would he got John to sit down and the pen and paper and he says okay, here's where to start. so on. So married so on solamente they had these kids here to do and John writes it all down. And then he took it away and tried to put together in what we we called the hedge the family hedge because it didn't go down like this didn't start at the top. Go nice. Like, oh, yeah, those were huge. Totally intermarry.

Speaker 3 1:06:36
Yeah. And then all these, you know, people marrying brothers and sisters. Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:06:39
So he but he said, like, you know, after he went to researching that to see, you know, what he could find as far as documents. It was mostly right. And that was just off the top of his head. But then I can do that. Yeah, with a lot of the the families from Uncle my all my uncles and Auntie's, and there were 16 of them. Luckily, we didn't all have big family. No, I think eight of the 16 didn't have children at all. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. A whole chunk in the middle. Didn't have children.

Speaker 1 1:07:19
At that time, Dona? It wasn't during the war time people lost.

Speaker 2 1:07:25
Not I don't know. Grin. Had one rose. greased, Muriel, but rose didn't have any limb. Ethel and waffle died young. So that's why she didn't have any. Ethel. Pete. Paul. Then there's dad. And then we there was eight of us. And that was Sophie. She had six, but five survived. And Fred. Fred has 1010 by two different wives.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:56
And his second way is a native coach.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:01
And his first wife was Judy, the fortune she's

Unknown Speaker 1:08:03
always just partnered. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:07
And then we'd only had one.

Speaker 3 1:08:10
You guys always have some charts and things. I've seen some of them. Yeah, yeah. We have those too. And yeah,

Speaker 2 1:08:15
yeah. It was a cool sort things out. Yeah, I'd like to get a look at those. Make sure that the right names and the right people could so easy to just make one little mistake, you know, Oh, yeah. Even like I was telling sister sometimes you're telling the story. And you say oh, it was Mary Ann's daughter, Muriel. But I might have said Mary Jane's daughter, you know, just the slip, you know, and I will notice it. So it just goes by and whoever's writing that down, says Mary Jane. Oh, she said Mary Jane.

Speaker 1 1:08:44
Would you make any changes to the, to the one you had down here when you guys all together? got together with the elders? Where was that? Did that that gel? That's what it is. Okay. Sounds good.

Speaker 2 1:08:53
And even some of the shepherds you know, this is Oh, no, no, this doesn't jive in here. There was no uncle Benjamin Moore. I beg to differ. I have I have the documents on that one. But that's not just a guess that was an actual document it

Speaker 3 1:09:09
would know just died young or? Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Yeah, I know. I know. In researching our family, it's the same. You make discoveries, or you visit graveyards. There's names like who's this

Speaker 2 1:09:23
town he's had lots of young children. I don't know how many they had very few of them survived. Lena and vineman EV and just all these little baby names. So I wonder

Speaker 3 1:09:38
about these babies. Stan brought this up and he said that his grandma once showed him a place where these some of these children were buried. Did you ever hear of any like family, burial places? He said there's place behind the lemme place that he serves up in the back I guess. The land starts to rise up a bit. He said there was an area in there. He understood that there You bury?

Speaker 2 1:10:03
Yeah. could easily be that because like those don't even they live down that that way. The church Well, I don't think could bury them because they're very young, some of them just babies. Yeah, it

Speaker 3 1:10:17
was customary well, even for even for non native families to bury people in the properties, sort of interested in identifying some of those places. Whenever somebody's grades are just from interviewing people like Gordon Cudmore. He's told me about pretty much I don't you think the archives know about him all wallet. He's buried there. Oh, yeah. And those were some of the spots are

Unknown Speaker 1:10:43
any, any shoulder were were buried on family property? Never heard anything about it. Come

Unknown Speaker 1:10:51
on. Matilda's. Were all buried at the church. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:55
I mean, that would be the standard practice. I think, if

Speaker 2 1:10:57
you can get here, it's wintertime. And you couldn't even get over the hill to the church. Well, they wouldn't know what to do with it at all. Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:11:08
So yeah, I want also that that other building we were talking about we we went down to see the Lumbees and then we went back and we went inland a bit of Mountain View Drive. It was a beautiful little area with a nice restored log cabin.

Speaker 2 1:11:24
We call that cap shack. Yes. What's.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:28
What's that place? Well, Stan,

Speaker 2 1:11:30
and his dad live there. Our oldest second oldest uncle we've, I call them our oldest uncle Albert Kelly. Eris is Albert Stanley Harris. Stan is Stan Stanley Albert. Okay, so Albert Stanley Harris the my dad's brother. Yeah, we call them Kelly. And he lived in that little cabin with the two boys with his two sons Stan and and he didn't build it already. He I know he did build a home of Paris's live there.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:05
And Ray and Bill.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:07
I honestly would have been Neverland originally.

Speaker 2 1:12:10
Yeah. Yeah. He he built it like Stan has some interesting stories about living up there that time. Because their dad was away a lot. So sometimes they were on their own.

Speaker 3 1:12:21
Oh, yeah. I've got some cool stories about hunting and strategy. I mean, the basically the communal hunts been for for people driving the game up in people's position in certain areas. I was a driver. You were driving, did you you've done some dramatic. Let's talk about that. Tell me about some deer hunts. Oh, it's all spring.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:46
Okay. We walked up the mountain with that young teenager and we're hiking up all along an old logging road. And dad can hear dogs barking. Well, the neighbor Oh, Hazel Downey and we'll move down. In the down he has had dogs that were known as dogs that chased deer. So that's behind that tree. Because there's a trail that went down and he's probably on that trail behind it too. So we got system ready and up comes the deer and the deer goes dead shoots. It falls down. And it was dead. But the dogs are right behind him. You shot both the dogs. Oh. Then he takes us like the road was trying to get up. We were horrified. We were young teenagers. Little kids. Wow.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:53
The dogs thinking they were deer per lead shot the dogs

Unknown Speaker 1:13:56
chasing No. They had a reputation of being chased do people did dogs chased sheep or your gut shot?

Speaker 3 1:14:05
Okay, so he wouldn't get in trouble for that. Or like it's just no, there's a bit of social cap there was no.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:12
Yeah, yeah. Deer and they got shot. But it was like he Well, he knew that hole and Ireland because he logged down there. So he knew that there was a trail that was coming up right to where we were. And sure enough, it just goes like that

Unknown Speaker 1:14:44
and then he chopped both the dogs. Bam, bam, right man,

Unknown Speaker 1:14:48
but venison was a big part of the diet. You remember.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:52
It was a big part of the diet.

Speaker 3 1:14:53
Did you see a lot of deer in those days? Like scares you had to hunt them right? They were happening If

Unknown Speaker 1:15:01
we didn't see him wandering through the garden, no,

Unknown Speaker 1:15:04
this is what I understand to like, you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:15:09
hardly ever saw them on on our property. No.

Speaker 3 1:15:13
They said they never would see them. Because they did shock. Oh, probably Yeah. Same as you had to go work if you want some deer and you live down, you know, on the beach or here, you'd have to go way up in the mountains. You didn't

Unknown Speaker 1:15:25
see them swimming across the harbor from time to time from the residence reserve, the over door or side of the beach. Yeah, I don't know why they were doing that. They could walk around.

Speaker 3 1:15:44
And of course, the hardware was always incredible sorts of foods. I mean, it was probably up until pretty recently. Yes, that you could always get crab down there. Yes. Always get clams.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:57
Clams, squeezes, herring, herring. Spawn. There was Jewish salmon. But chum and aspirin. I think that came from no way springs. I think it was great. But it was chum for sure. Dog salmon. They called it? Yeah. And what else? Oh, it was this raft of ducks. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 1:16:25
used to be black. It looked like you could just

Speaker 3 1:16:27
walk across them. And it was in your time. Yeah, I know. It's in my time too. And I grew up in West Vancouver and we lived in a bay and yeah. Just covered we used to just go

Unknown Speaker 1:16:38
Yeah, like can take off and you don't see that

Unknown Speaker 1:16:42
person's own place. The road is right at the top of the beach. And as you drove along there, the Ducks would sit. They would start moving out as you came along the road. They would move out away from from the car. Yeah, there was golden eyes and old Squad X and Canvas backs and mallards and grieves. Oh, you'll

Unknown Speaker 1:17:02
see grieves anymore. No.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:03
Nope. And well, they left the same bolts in there. And they would put their net and so and walk across the harbor the ferry had to like work out in satellite channel on ways to Sydney and I think they fished them out because now we hardly ever see a purpose there used to be you could look out our kitchen window and see porpoise here porpoise there. There was always purpose

Speaker 2 1:17:32
or was always to come in Tiller was in the sand we could hear

Unknown Speaker 1:17:39
you could hear them coming because they were big pods. You could hear him and before they got into sight yeah

Unknown Speaker 1:17:47
smelt did you have smelt in the fall? They didn't Ganges harbor was wondering. No, I don't remember

Unknown Speaker 1:17:56
hearing in the spring. It smells huh.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:59
No. No, that's interesting. I'm sure if they were there the men would know. You'll see so let us take grillz

Unknown Speaker 1:18:09
Yeah, I used to fist girls

Unknown Speaker 1:18:17
with a diamond spoon on it yeah. You just catch him I mean put the line in catch him

Speaker 3 1:18:22
yes eating a nice little Oh famine ideally

Unknown Speaker 1:18:25
shouldn't have let us do that.

Speaker 3 1:18:29
Just let us do it and nobody else do it. Wow. So you guys all did that your soul second nature to go out and get food and still is Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:42
I'm too old now. Candy Mountain clams.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:46
Are those that the young folks those guys used to get the really really low tides in the winter at night. Dad and uncle Steve would be out in the beach there. Yeah, right down in front of the house and Ethel and I were the pickers. Oh my god my hands are cold already.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:05
Did it fires on the beach and stuff? We had

Unknown Speaker 1:19:07
an old baby bath was a metal Yeah, build a fire in that and drag it along?

Speaker 3 1:19:12
Yeah, I've got some good stories of Stan clamp digging down there. He said the kids would go off and you know get pitch pitchy for and stuff and Bill fires and some container on the beach and people got hungry just throw clams in there and eat them and and of course he talked about the clam gardens which are now so huge. Did you guys ever hear of a clam gardens when it was just a clam beach?

Speaker 2 1:19:36
Yeah, there's one Isabella point yeah passed by the House we never dug it. called it the cod trap. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:44
Where did you guys do?

Speaker 2 1:19:45
We dug up by off of Hamilton's and Lacy's Okay,

Speaker 3 1:19:49
well yeah, like you said, John, we're family homestead.

Speaker 2 1:19:53
The clam garden is down past our house. Yeah, we got in there.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:57
No, we didn't We used to we used to dig right in front of the house you but you could dig all the way up to the head of the harbor

Unknown Speaker 1:20:05
maybe butter clams.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:08
Big, big next.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:10
Oh the horse clan.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:11
No, no, no,

Speaker 2 1:20:12
it was big necks and Little Mix. They're both butter clams. Okay, but the big mixers because your fist yeah was big ones a little bite anywhere. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:22
And now that whole beach has changed. It's it's rather muddy. And that big brown weed is all there where it really Leafy. Yeah, that the ugly stuff there used to be there. Nobody used to be there. No, it was all crabgrass. There, the sound was hard and bluish gray. That's all gone. So I changed.

Speaker 3 1:20:43
Mine of sands told me that. He said it was that big clam beach and friendly plate. He said he said it was a clam garden like the other one. But he worked on that one. He actually worked on that. But he said it was the logging that destroyed it. Because I guess you know, I think it was in the 20s there was a big logging show there were they logged the whole side of Fulford and they had a big log suit, steamed doggies and his pictures in the archives. And he said that's what destroyed the beach just you know, the the logs and Yeah, Mark falls off. And then if you remember,

Unknown Speaker 1:21:14
they bloom right in front of the house for a couple years. Right in front of our Yeah, and

Speaker 3 1:21:20
he said that destroyed it. Because he taught us to be just clear water beautiful. It

Unknown Speaker 1:21:24
was sad that comes out of those logs just it kills the beach and then it's thinks Yeah,

Speaker 2 1:21:32
it goes black. Yeah, I can say the flaming. Yeah. But that's you went down retreat me beside our house. I guess it was at Creek.

Speaker 3 1:21:42
I talked to Johnny Bennett years ago. He said there's still remnants of it up because it was made of giant logs. They get three logs and then one in the bottom and then two on the sides that form sort of a shoot. Here's some pictures in the archives showing them coming down some ravine and he claimed you could go up there and still find sections of it. Probably but

Speaker 2 1:22:03
there was the log shoot there at where they found that rock with the petroglyph on it. Yeah, that's where it came out. Okay, there was that one and then down closer to our house. There's another one right next door to our house. Yeah, between

Unknown Speaker 1:22:14
us and last sitters, because

Unknown Speaker 1:22:16
there's a couple of ravines in there when they

Unknown Speaker 1:22:18
I remember them logging when they started logging down there. They were logging with horses. Really? Yeah. Two big heavy horses. One is white.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:28
So do you think was doing a login?

Unknown Speaker 1:22:30
I don't remember who it was. I really don't. I just

Speaker 2 1:22:34
I don't know. Maybe it was Musgrave. Musgrave. And when I went into the crown grants look under the hood. There's this huge chunks of the whole self and the Saltspring Oh, Musgrave even on some reading Fulford harbour, but long it off, and then just sell it or

Unknown Speaker 1:22:55
that's what they used to go on. gypo Jeep outfit, buy some property and log it off and then sell it cheap. Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:23:04
Musgrave so he's on the line. He's no English or somebody wealthy. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:11
Does anybody know who Burgoyne was?

Speaker 3 1:23:13
He was a surgeon on HMS Ganges. Oh, really? I

Unknown Speaker 1:23:17
just wondering where that name came from. Lots

Speaker 3 1:23:20
of the British said he sort of went around and what do we name this place was named after so tricky.

Speaker 2 1:23:32
Your plug for your computer? Oh, yeah. Okay. It's one of those great big square one.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:42
It's a ghost. So getting back to your Hawaiian reads because you have some command language a little bit. What's the word for char occur? Yeah. So yeah, I learned that on your own just

Speaker 2 1:24:00
from years of going down there and listening to just the singers in the clubs and some of your music dance. Right? And you you'd hear words and see dance movements and realize okay, that's that connection. That means pieced together a little bit by little bit. I never really did learn the language, like take a course language. But it was just piecing it together. And then the chance just came from. I love the chanting. Yeah. And I thought well that maybe I can learn one. So it was just phonetic listen to it. Here learning a song. Yeah, and some of the some of the words I know exactly what they mean. Because you know that the name for for wind or cu and stuff like that. I can put pieces of it together. But mostly it's just phonetically mimicking, do a little bit of a chin or comical nap or no kind of muck. Am I a blue my way? Aloha A Luhan No. We are the descendants of Noah cannot come to visit and to see. Look upon us graciously. Right.

Speaker 3 1:25:08
Yeah, I got a bit of that at Haiti talk moil Yeah, little as my knowledge. Wow. So, Paul, did you have some knowledge why in words? No,

Speaker 2 1:25:26
just attenuated. Yeah. Well, let me what have you heard from his mother and she had very, very few more than one as he said she spoke mostly Chinook sailors

Speaker 3 1:25:37
probably helped them you know, they probably had a good I mean, even stance that he could understand any language as a kid because we spoke everywhere. Children would just Yeah. And

Speaker 2 1:25:47
then not all just sort of went by the wayside because every school use

Speaker 3 1:25:51
it, you lose it. Or late, great friend Frank, German speaker can't speak German anymore. After a few years, translate suddenly said

Unknown Speaker 1:26:05
our ancestor, Hawaiian, and native were allowed to be doing language. Yeah, taught in schools, we never had a chance to learn anything. Just just the, you know, the words that we tossed around, but not the proper language.

Speaker 3 1:26:22
But it is interesting, somebody must have kept it up a bit or maybe just seeing it in a small way because I interviewed fellow from Santa Ray Sam. Yeah. And he, you know, I was interviewing him about Fulford and he said, Oh, he never went to Fulford except once to go logging and he and this was probably in the 40s. But he went he told me he was starting with a Fulford in and the doors had like, what Nene Kanika the men and women's can wash her. And he remembered that he was here in the 40s. I thought that's interesting. Who would? So who in your family would have? I mean, somebody must, you know, this knowledge that they had this Hawaiian ancestor, you know, was there and they're actually using it, like on the washrooms and it's pretty interesting. 40s

Unknown Speaker 1:27:12
It was a big old Tudor building. Yeah,

Speaker 3 1:27:15
one of the versions zero. Yeah, that would have been the one that's one of the ones that burnt down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, quite a few.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:28
It was burned down and they would build something else. That was burned down the jilda Hotelli.

Speaker 3 1:27:35
Bleep around but I'm now thinking about Portland island. So whenever they left, they left for good. Portland Lee 19th century

Speaker 2 1:27:45
Yeah, he he sold his. He had now kind of owned like one three. Palau on two and four. Okay. Now the plows I don't know what happened. I never chased that down to see what happened to that. But one in three. William now kind of sold a lot. One to Clive Phillips Wally. In 90 No. 1901 I haven't I have the denture that he sold it, sold it to him and he was no cannabis out of there course he died 1909. So he had it for a long time there. And then his lot three ended up in the hands of a woman called Cecilia Parker. And a lot of this history that's written by Tom coupled and Jean barman and all those people that have tried to put this together. Uncle Paul was sort of the one that said that Cecilia Parker was one of the No Connor girls, because there was a Sicilian. I will come but it was not her. He never met that Auntie so I guess he just assumed that if she's there on Portland Island, owning a piece of her father's land. It would have been the daughter. It was not. Cecilia. No Kana married Davis lived in Victoria and both of them died there in Victoria. They're buried or Osby. So this Cecilia Parker that name pops up so often in our history, and I don't know who she is. Why, How did she end up with that piece of property from William Elkanah? Was she his sister and he gave it to her? Was she a partner later in life and he gave it to her? She sold it in she died in 19. Oh, who? And in 1911. After they finished, figured out her will and everything. It was left to her three children. And their names were Jenny Palace, Gracie Benjamin and a Sedro. Sophia. Gracie and Jenny. were daughters of William Kahana Louis so they Cecilia Parker was married to a Kahana knew you had those two girls. Then her second husband was Sophia, Sophia Cohn Otto. Must have been Portuguese or, or something. And they had the one son Sedro Sophia. So I don't know who this Cecilia Park was. She lived up on Kanaka road. Oh, here she is. Yeah, she's on the Census there. Celia now you know her what happened? Yeah. But it was thought and a lot of those books were written with that knowledge that she was assuming.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:41
Because she inherited the power. Got it. Uncle

Speaker 2 1:30:43
Paul thought she was it was his auntie Cecilia married to George Napoleon Parker. Now, so that would make her Cecilia Parker. And now the Parker family know the Parker family hails from the Big Island. So they weren't Hawaiians, but they were in Vancouver, North Vancouver. And they arrived there was a mother William Parker and I think it was William and his wife guessing and, and they had four sons, John, William George and the Polian and a daughter, Cecile. So uncles put those two names together, George Napoleon, and has this facility Parker as the wife. But they're all brothers and sisters. So they're there. But how they connect to us? I don't know. But it just pop up in our our family history and our family tree all the time. Interesting. Yeah. Never been able to use that lawyers it. Yeah. Stay tuned.

Speaker 3 1:31:57
So when did you become aware of your lineage? Or have you pursued your Native Connections?

Speaker 2 1:32:02
We never could because we didn't have a name to chase down. Yeah. Because there's my dad. And we only found out in the last 10 years, maybe not even that mother's background was first nations. Yeah, because I did my DNA. Yeah. And the marker came back. My haplogroup was D. And our Kanaka group. Lady said, Well, that's a First Nations marker D. And I went from my old mom. But we traced it back. We found out who her real birth parents were she never Oh, relation them growing up. She told us she didn't know who they were. But she did. Yeah. She finally before she died, told me how her birth parents were. And from that I was able to trace it back easily. She was married. Her great, great grandfather was James Murray Yale, and he married three separate Indian women from Kwantlen. And he was the chief trader affordable. Yeah, I've

Unknown Speaker 1:33:00
heard answers from you. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:02
My mom's great, great grandfather.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:04
So Albert's really the Lord.

Speaker 2 1:33:06
Maxine, the Lord married Nathan and girl. Roberta Aikman. That's over.

Speaker 3 1:33:13
I've met a lot of sentences. Yeah. That actually is has a really good manuscript on him. We'll try and get it for you.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:24
Yeah. Wasn't Lums Indian? Marker, Plains Indian? No,

Speaker 2 1:33:30
that's Matilda. Matilda? Yeah, we did. Sophie, my auntie Sophie, Dad's sister, Sophie, and her daughter Rose. So we we tested rose DNA goes to her mother. Sophie Rowland to Matilda now and then to her mother, which we we didn't never knew her number. It was a Katherine Brown. And that Margaret came back as C haplogroup, which was more like a Plains Indian. That would have been one of these native women that the Hudson's Bay Company brought as they were coming across from pick them up in Manitoba or Ontario. Yep, dragged him over here to the coast. You know, because they needed them to just build them close, wherever to get them across as they traveled across the country. And then once they're out here, they weren't about to say, Okay, well, we'll take you home on the next ball here. Right Find yourself a new husband and maybe that woman married No.

Speaker 3 1:34:43
I'm singing you know that famous picture? We all know it. Love it. That one of the marriage or the christening or whatever is going on. What is your take on that?

Speaker 2 1:34:57
I've looked at that one a few times. And I'm It does sort of look like it's a marriage. You know, because there's all this group of women over here with their little bouquets, all dressed in their finery, and then a whole group of parishioners or whatever. And then on this side on the right hand side, it's mostly women. One is carrying a bouquet I believe. And then there's one man and there's the keys shells. Yeah. I think it was the groom, that woman, and it could have been. Mariah Malloy is one of her daughters married there, but I noticed a few people right dead center. The picture is Joe Downey. You can tell him because he wore his hair. It was always like, big bangs. It spooked across his forehead here, okay, because he, his nickname was kicked in the head with a horse. Because he was kicked in the head with his his heavy horse kicked him and left a big dent. Right in you can see behind it. And so he was here and combed over that big dent. Wow. So you can see him straight in the middle of the pitch. You know, it's him. And then all around him. There was George Shepherd. They were him and George Shepherd and John one John, one of the John Palau, juniors. Were all in there.

Speaker 3 1:36:24
John Maxwell's in there. Yeah, we have that those names. I remember we went over that, like years ago, I got lots of input. You I'm sure you get input. Yeah. Nice to revisit that picture.

Speaker 2 1:36:36
We think Malcolm is in the back. Yeah, back in old, long, white beard. But then there's a picture of now Juana that the lumley's have the see that that's their, their ancestor, we have no one or William at all. But when you look at that picture, and the only picture we have of William melcombe, they sort of look like the same guy. So I don't know if it's different. Or do photos of the same guy that they say this is not one and this is no kinda I don't know.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:10
Either of them look more like the one in the St. Paul's examples,

Speaker 2 1:37:12
and it's still tiny. And it will not blow up. Don Kelly's in there. Father, Don Kelly. Yeah, good stuff. He's in there. He's walking behind a group of people. There's a lot of the women there you can see their first name is Mrs. King is probably in there.

Speaker 3 1:37:29
Yeah, a lot of native women wonder, you know, just get these older names and just try to match them up triggers.

Speaker 2 1:37:40
So, you know, if you find other people, like, I've looked through my old photos, and like, that's how I picked out your share looking. I know these photos, and I know who those people are. And then I looked at those pictures. And as I said, Joe, Tony, and then right beside him is George Fisher. And probably John Palau, Jr. But they were like, all the same age. They're on their early 20s. And they were passed. They just together like glue. Many pictures of them all together.

Speaker 3 1:38:07
I guess we don't have a date for that. We'll have no no content. No. Aquinas in there. It's gonna be for 1909

Speaker 1 1:38:14
We haven't got a good day. Yeah. I don't know how to revisit

Unknown Speaker 1:38:17
that because it's so long as there's this

Unknown Speaker 1:38:19
the thing we're gonna call this with

Unknown Speaker 1:38:21
fire. Yeah. With the the bell tower thing. Yeah,

Speaker 2 1:38:24
there's a lever perfect. No, it's not. pergola. It's it's got a name for it. Yeah, that wasn't there. It wasn't on put on that church until 1885. I think. And that came from the buttered church over Yeah. So if it's up there, it's just after 1885. So it's not pre that. That's how they were sort of narrowing it down. But how else you would gauge it? Unless we know that that's more I'm always daughter getting married. Then if we could find a Marriage Registry, and

Speaker 3 1:39:00
it's got to be there because the church Roman Catholic church kept records on it. I think we went through those discs and couldn't find anything to kind of have another visit. So since you've mentioned her and what's do have a family connection, American Maria Malloy,

Speaker 2 1:39:16
Mariah Mariah, she was not she was just a family friend. She ended up with Russell island. It was William Hall May is preempt. And he G left it to her. And I think it's stories I've heard of her like she had connections to Kahana Nui I think. I don't know. But how may I left it to her and why I don't know. Maybe he didn't have I never knew them to be married or have children. There must be some I mean, obviously, the big chunk of land it Eleanor point. Yeah. Like you know, there's just Eleanor pointing Russell Allen's right there

Speaker 3 1:39:58
if he would have been one of the first Yeah, to come to Salt Lake first ones. Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:40:04
But he ended the she ended up with that property. And she lived her whole life there. Yeah. But her know kinda we're good pals because like she was on Rasul Allah and he was on Portland Island. Like, it's just like, yeah, they're they could yell across at each other. Like when the fog hangs up, you know, it's just just up off the water. It's like, the sound waves on the beach, and you can hear them over there.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:27
What would you say when you're on the bus?

Speaker 2 1:40:29
That travels? Well? No, I there was no connection. There was a one of the death registrations I have from my uncle Leonard. My dad's older brother, uncle Leonard. The informant was ie Fisher. That's Ernie Fisher. And that was one of Maria's younger children. And they always asked, What's your connection to the informant? Are you if you're the informant, and it's he said he was his nephew. So I thought, Okay, well, now Is that for real or not? And I phoned up his daughter, Linda Farrington, she lives up. Fort Simpson, I think. And I said, Do you know of any connection between the fissures or the Douglass? That's Mariah has children? And the roelens like that somebody marry somebody that I don't know, did they just have children together? Like we don't know. And she said, as far as she knew, there was no marriage between any of us but she said, my father, and his brothers and sisters called all the roelens Uncle. And it's just that respecting, just like we call Stan uncle Stan is older than us. He's uncle. Yeah. So I guess maybe, if Ernie Fisher actually thought he was the nephew or just they asked him he says, Well, he was my uncle, nephew then. So I've never been able to make a connection to them always at all through marriage. But they are definitely part of that community. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:42:02
definitely. Yeah. Well, we

Speaker 2 1:42:05
used to go over see a but we still call Russell Island, Abe's Island, huh. Today, we still call it names island because a Douglas lived there. was calling her son. Yeah, her son a naval. Wow.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:17
You remember him? Yeah. Call about him. What was he like?

Speaker 2 1:42:22
He's a little tiny guy. Little Abel Douglas.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:28
He wasn't he wasn't a great conversationalist. All I remember is that he told mum and dad and uncle Paul, that if he if he needed somebody to come over there, he'd hang a white sheet on the clothesline. Go over there. See what are they

Speaker 2 1:42:44
John has a story that to a certain place where He would build His fire. Fire was over here. Everything was fine. But if the fire was here, he needed someone to come now. And he had his sick clam beach right outside his door because he's the house is there. And then he just walked down and there was he had a dark belt there. And we used to go over there the boys more John in them, but they would roll over and take him groceries or his mail. Or just go and help him out. We used to go over there as kids but he was much, much older. He wasn't there long when I was young. So we just go over and play over there. You know,

Unknown Speaker 1:43:23
that's the original house. It's still see Yeah, so that yeah, the House and the radius. How many cancer?

Speaker 2 1:43:29
I don't know. I don't know their family. Well, but it's 13. Maybe

Unknown Speaker 1:43:34
14? Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:43:36
But sick clam meat was right down off of his his dock where the dock is now. I think it was a different dock at that time. Yeah. Same

Unknown Speaker 1:43:44
sort of area.

Speaker 2 1:43:46
Yeah. Yeah. Facing in full for harbor. Yeah. Right in front of the house. The boys thought they were supposed to he told them not to dig clams. They're sick clam beach. And they thought because the clamps are bad or was a riot or something. They were he's kept saying when he was sick, he could get still get down there and get feed the clams and get back to his house. Oh, that's cool. He's Jacob cod. And he would keep like, you know, he'd catch more than he needed. And there was no refrigeration or anything. So he would keep them alive. He would he would thread a line through his gills and tie it to his dock. And it would swim off the top and it just Eric there and he just won't get on as it needed. Remember that story.

Unknown Speaker 1:44:37
What about the sea urchins? It's pretty easy to get

Speaker 2 1:44:42
off of the clam garden off that rock pile or across the heartland to send those guys down

Unknown Speaker 1:44:48
to the point? No, the village islands. Yeah, that's where the townie slip, right. Yeah, inside that and it was it was dope right on that point

Unknown Speaker 1:44:58
where we were

Unknown Speaker 1:44:59
instructed to go and they did. They wanted to do big ones. They liked the small ones too. Yeah, like the big ones better so sorry drop.

Speaker 2 1:45:15
Uncle Fred used to come in the harbor sometimes he called them rock stickers. Collect and rock stickers need to be across the bay. It's called Jackson rock. We used to call Scotland's.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:25
Yeah, yeah. On the chart.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:29
Just in front of the,

Speaker 3 1:45:30
I guess, you know, of course, there were very islands and Stan told me that they were they were covered in bones as a kid and it was sort of a local tourist attraction. I mean, they would take you loose to show them the site.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:43
Yeah, Dad, Uncle Paul both said there was lots of bones play over there. That's why we call them sky. Yeah, we

Speaker 2 1:45:50
just go over there and just ramble around on the rocks. Well, then we did cod after they got the boys in there now on the rock. Just off there you do get caught. But we always we still call it Scotland. Yeah, no, that's Scott.

Speaker 3 1:46:06
Yeah. And then all the hook I mean, the maps know they've translated skull into whatever the Pokemon where it is for skull. Kind of interesting play there. I don't know if it was originally that name.

Unknown Speaker 1:46:19
What other name you gave another name for skull on so I didn't Jackson

Unknown Speaker 1:46:22
Jackson. Jackson, I

Speaker 2 1:46:24
think I think that's where the boy sits as they call that Jackson rock. Oh, that submerge rock? Yes. Oh, and then the little islands for Jackson islands. Yeah, yeah. Who Jackson was no and I was asking about that. Jackson beach too. We call the Jackson speech and that's where Darren Drummond Park is now Yeah, we were always going up to Jackson speech and we had a lot of our luau stare because we could get great drive right onto the beach basically Oh nice. where he's at our house you have to go down the bank. So we we got to Jackson speech and so there was Jackson like someone told me Now did he own the land there or preempt? I think I found them in the preemptions I think the last person I asked him some idea who Jackson was but it's not clear really who he was but he was definitely around got lots of things named word me there's no there's no Kate rock

Speaker 3 1:47:17
well no yeah. We start renaming everything I ever rock all these British naval names get rid of them

Unknown Speaker 1:47:27
you spent a lot of time in Fulford harbour

Speaker 1 1:47:31
in the world did you did you do on Russell? Did your the uncle ever mentioned me? They just got to sit claim garden Did you ever mentioned claim garden garden? guys recall that stretch of the climb gardens? No,

Speaker 2 1:47:48
we like we we knew the piles of rocks were there. We never called it a plum garden. Yeah. Dad called the cob trap. Why I don't know where every now and then like a fish would get stuck in there and like I said an Apple came up the beach one time with

Unknown Speaker 1:48:03
the beach forgive getting crab and she came up to seven. And Lisa Where did you get back to? I can't was my bigger hand.

Speaker 2 1:48:14
She says no I did. Who was that? Ethel? Oh, yeah. But what had happened is the sand that had been in there swimming around in Thailand. And if you don't get out soon enough you're stuck in there until it comes back. Yeah. And she said the seagulls were down there pasture and Peck and added one I picked out as the she drove them off and

Unknown Speaker 1:48:36
we brought the all know

Speaker 3 1:48:38
I have some friends that are doing archaeological work there. That's a quite an old clam garden. Apparently you go it's quite steep so I could see it. You get fish in place to probably get caught and hanging off at the bottom of it.

Unknown Speaker 1:48:48
You get rock scallops off there now. There has to be a minus. Let that Oh, totally. I could tell you what I have to kill if they can find them ethically.

Speaker 3 1:49:05
You put in the time and the work you deserve. It is really

Unknown Speaker 1:49:08
hard to find because it's all covered in green. See we Yeah. There's those orange things Satan's that they're all in the rocks. Yeah, he's when the scallop is open. You can see orange and it

Speaker 2 1:49:23
you know when the clam opens up and you can just see that little orange. Yeah. Well, when the scalpel does up, it's a bright orange. I can't see a bright orange jacket

Unknown Speaker 1:49:34
right and they slept

Speaker 2 1:49:37
well their eyes are in their little black filament that's their eyes. Did

Speaker 3 1:49:41
they put like a stick in his mouth and it catches a towel because I've seen a native guy so that's how he they would catch them. Like just put the stick down thing and clamp on the stick?

Unknown Speaker 1:49:52
No, they don't open that much. Like

Unknown Speaker 1:49:58
a screwdriver with you to pry wouldn't get it off.

Speaker 2 1:50:00
They are stuck on that road. They slam shut like that. If you didn't know that that just looks like a rock. You got to bash them right off the rock and they're like an oyster these great new shell

Unknown Speaker 1:50:13
is about this thick at the back.

Unknown Speaker 1:50:17
Okay, he'll rock scallop.

Unknown Speaker 1:50:21
David, David used to cut them like this way, like mistakes, because they were like,

Unknown Speaker 1:50:28
they're like those Digby scallops.

Unknown Speaker 1:50:30
I'm so down there, hey.

Unknown Speaker 1:50:36
Well, sometimes we go down there for hours. You have every little I know, very little time. By the time the tide drove us away, we might have two or three

Speaker 2 1:50:46
maybe three. Down there, we're in this sort of treacherous walking on all those rocks. Some of them are loose, but it's just this pile of rock. Yeah, we're being quiet. And it goes Wait a minute. So we stopped but just there's one right here. It's all really completed where she's I'm not sure yet but I can hear it

Speaker 2 1:51:25
when they are when they are open, and they do see you or optical character. But that was one of the same.

Speaker 3 1:51:39
So one thing you brought up we have to pursue this at least initially here is the the the institution of the Lua, like wind. Was that always done here? or did somebody in the family kind of

Speaker 2 1:51:53
I think it's a family tradition and we didn't call it a luau.

Unknown Speaker 1:51:59
Okay, tell me about the whole thing that

Speaker 2 1:52:01
names sort of went by the wayside. But anytime you had an event in the Hawaiians are pretty closely knit communities as are a lot of these but but they would have if it was somebody's birthday, or an anniversary or an event, you invited the entire community. And if you were putting on the show, you got the hunted the deer and dumped the clams and fished and made the jam and and all that sort of stuff and then you invited your family and then in our case that family was huge. And then the community and all the aunties and uncles who had moved away maybe to Duncan sigh and Victoria site so it was like a two or three day event and they would come come full full force set up their tents or whatever. But

Unknown Speaker 1:52:51
the main issue main drive was mom had eight kids five of them born in August so we always had a birthday party. Well that was

Speaker 2 1:53:02
our okay luau if you will, but like the shepherds might put one on or or whomever? Oh yes, it was and then you would go because it was usually to celebrate an event of some sort. But it wasn't just done within a family. It was done within the community.

Speaker 3 1:53:19
So go way back in your memory like a quarterback Do you remember the people were doing this? So were they doing like the traditional radio the Hungee we call it New Zealand.

Speaker 2 1:53:29
I'm not by the time I came along like I wasn't born until 56. So by then courses a lot of easier ways of doing so know these do the beach one like the homies ground and your Yeah, yeah. Okay, these were beach ones. Yeah, so it'd be like the sailor, same thing. Same thing except on the beach. Your big hole lineup with the flattest rocks you could find build a fire on that. Rake that off and then throw the seaweed down this starting your steam bed and put your seafood in there more seaweed and they covered it with

Unknown Speaker 1:54:05
Gorilla dirt back in beach back and then cover

Speaker 2 1:54:09
it with a canvas or something and then put the sand on top and then it was

Unknown Speaker 1:54:16
easy to day's work. Did you have to have a whole quart of wood in the right rocks? Yeah. Not understanding no and sacks of seaweed

Unknown Speaker 1:54:29
really busy with like this, this green leafy

Speaker 1 1:54:31
stay always used to even use ferns or slow anything from the bush always just from the ocean. Just if you don't mind Chris, I'm gonna say that I have this document here. I don't remember where I got it, but I'll track it down. Does this sound familiar at all? All Hawaiian families. This is a handwritten pencil. All Hawaiian families go to Cole Island. Sing and dance for a week. Two families. There's two families there. Then go to peers, another family dance, dance again, then go to Portland Island at winter resort from what I could find out to handwritten pages here documents that I obviously took pictures. I just wondered I saw it again this morning. But I've been meaning to ask people. No, but just because it just came up. But that

Speaker 2 1:55:24
sounds really because cool Island was the comm eyes. Don't call Alan. Fears Island. Here's Island was Brant. Edward Brant Fisher. And he was married to Sarah of college. Okay, Indian woman. And she shot him and got away with it. Yeah, but they were not Hawaiian. But,

Speaker 1 1:55:53
but maybe it was more pilot style or something. I'm just thinking, you go for that for a week, you know? Because

Speaker 2 1:56:01
that connects salary some of it? Yeah, that connection with Fisher and Sarah of college and she had his son George Fisher and George Fisher, I believe married Mariah McCoy. So there is that connection

Speaker 3 1:56:18
to Fisher, who would be the son of one of those earlier fishers that we're talking about? Yeah, natively. She

Speaker 2 1:56:24
married Douglas Abel, Doug Kaplan, Abel Douglas first, and quite a few children with him. And then he died. I think he got sick and died. He didn't leave her I think he died. And, and then she married Fisher and had a whole pile of other little little fissures.

Speaker 1 1:56:42
And Sarah, what did you have a last name for her? She's just Sarah. Sarah Scotch is from college. And she was married to Edward Brandt fish. Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:56:52
I don't know if that's a spelling to Bre and di t Oh,

Speaker 1 1:56:56
yeah. Right. I have seen that. And sorry, that was piers. But what did you say about

Unknown Speaker 1:57:01
gulaman? Cool. Come eyes, que mi

Unknown Speaker 1:57:09
the Fein Andrews

Speaker 2 1:57:12
because it was Andrew come i and then taking that that given name as a last name. So I think you might find Andrew or Andrews would be about the same family.

Speaker 3 1:57:24
It was very interesting thing here. It looks like something taken out of a diary or an interview. It's got like Paul, and this is granddad talks about making tobacco and something it's like an interview. Now there's

Speaker 1 1:57:33
a lot of things that you've said that have come out. I only really read it

Unknown Speaker 1:57:37
because somewhere in a box.

Speaker 1 1:57:41
I'll find it off. I forgot the date that I took it. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:57:45
Bass Lake. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:57:49
Yeah, and about stocking a lake with bass.

Speaker 3 1:57:52
Bass Lake. So the funny the lake at the top,

Unknown Speaker 1:57:55
remember the name of the bass. But

Unknown Speaker 1:57:58
I do know that the menus are toxic stories about stalking. Makes the throat bass. That's

Speaker 1 1:58:06
what this refers to stalking lake. And maybe they call it a

Speaker 3 1:58:11
shingle mill. A shingle mill, you know, this is funny the lakes up there, as you go Musgrave road,

Unknown Speaker 1:58:18
you send you copies of

Unknown Speaker 1:58:20
that previously bought land in Langley. This

Speaker 1 1:58:27
could be sumo notes or something, maybe something I've gotten the twain B's. Anyway, we're at two hours. And I'm aware of your condition. Yeah, I understand that. So Chris, anything wrapping up you want to talk about and I've got some things I do want to ask?

Unknown Speaker 1:58:54
Before things will come up? Yeah, no, this is just sort of

Unknown Speaker 1:58:58
you can shuffle this all into transcribe all this

Unknown Speaker 1:59:04
is that it's important. The software we're

Unknown Speaker 1:59:09
gonna get on that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:59:10
And remind me you can email me about the list of similar words. Really cool stuff. And then if I have a lot of stuff you're looking for,

Speaker 1 1:59:21
I've got all those points written down like that without the rolling dictionary. get you connected with Geraldine for an interview also feel lonely. I know Bill, so he'd

Speaker 3 1:59:34
be a great person. This is fun. Because I mean, I just had the big outlines of the whole history. And this is like the beautiful little details, nuggets of actual experiences on the land and stuff. And

Speaker 2 1:59:46
did we ever find the picture of the church that Morphe Did

Speaker 1 1:59:52
you know, the picture that Frank built that from from the original St. Paul's Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then how many years Go we did this revalue I had this idea to do this redo and I photographed it from across the road so we had all the oh the nowadays families come in. Oh, and we set them up in kind of the same places but it's true as best we can. Yeah. And we shot it and and then Frank took the two pictures and morphed them together became the other can't find it and I don't know honestly even know what sort of format that would have been like something you would have done with frag show in a PowerPoint kind of thing. It's not like that can exist like a JPEG

Speaker 2 2:00:31
emailed to me. So I opened it and looked at it and it was shown the old photo and then fade out.

Speaker 3 2:00:41
Gino thing, because I use it in my presentation. Yeah, right. Dissolve.

Unknown Speaker 2:00:46
Yeah, it dissolves. And when it comes, yeah.

Speaker 3 2:00:49
Frank actually showed me how the work that I know remember it? Like it's just you know, it's like PowerPoint, but it's keynote, ya know, for

Speaker 1 2:00:55
Mac. But if it was a keynote file, Kate would have to have keynote on her computer. Yeah, I do. Or you map.

Speaker 3 2:01:03
It makes sense. Yeah. keynotes, the best PowerPoints.

Speaker 2 2:01:10
But those people in that photograph, were all Hawaiian descendants. The lovelies are in there. Yeah. I don't know if Geraldine was around. But we're Becky was in there. And her mom. Yeah. And then there was some lady from Parksville. She was a mohawk boy. Wendy Mauer. Yes. I

Unknown Speaker 2:01:29
just been talking to her about some other stuff. She

Speaker 2 2:01:31
was there and her husband, right. And Bill I'm leaving. There.

Speaker 3 2:01:37
I'd like yeah, we should revisit that. Send it around again. Because I'd like to see where we got with so many years ago.

Speaker 2 2:01:44
I remember. Yeah. The old for and I shouldn't be I should be going after that. The newest one we did and put the names of the people that are all my nephews are in there. Right. Brothers?

Speaker 3 2:01:54
When did you see that one? Oh, you had a big reunion? 2008

Unknown Speaker 2:01:57
Because that was just the other day. It wasn't.

Unknown Speaker 2:02:00
It wasn't really a reunion time. It

Speaker 2 2:02:02
was just, you know? Yeah. spirit walk the valley. Right? What's it that same time? Yes, it really because I knew that people were interested in that story. And I said, Okay, well, you guys are all going to be around anyway. And they were starting at St. Paul's Church. And they had asked us to do this presentation or, or a bit of a history. And so we did that at the church for them. And then I told all of the families of Hawaiian descent that I emailed long before the event I said Now when that thing is over for the day, everyone's going to hike off to Fulford to the one by Fulford Hall. I said, I want every one of you to stay behind. Right. And they did. And I'd sent them the photo, the old old photo, and I circled the major characters in this picture and numbered them all. And then I sent out an email saying you are going to be number 13. You are Number 12. You're number 22. So when everybody leaves, I want you to find your spot in this photo in that yard and go and stand there. And for the most part, it worked pretty good. In a video that much bigger, right.

Unknown Speaker 2:03:10
We'll see you and the traffic

Unknown Speaker 2:03:13
or the actual spot for the original

Unknown Speaker 2:03:18
course the roads all the elevations higher, right. That's right. Different.

Speaker 2 2:03:22
Yeah. So she had the angle of there's a few photos in there of your hand holding the original photo. Yeah, church and for the pressure. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:03:34
We did it. Yeah, it was great.

Speaker 3 2:03:35
But then you're getting back to the green stuff. That photo is chock a block with graves, when you look at the church, or they're just the forests across this thing. So there's so many more people buried in and we know. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 2:03:47
well, I do have the list that grandma wrote.

Speaker 3 2:03:52
In the archives, we should turn over all your stuff. I think.

Speaker 1 2:03:57
I'll email you all my, just the points that I wanted to talk to you about.

Unknown Speaker 2:04:00
Yeah. Because I got tons of stuff. And

Speaker 1 2:04:03
I think wasn't Richard looking into that. The road

Speaker 2 2:04:07
he was in? I haven't heard anything from them since then.

Unknown Speaker 2:04:11
You know, Richard Marinus. Richard Dick.

Unknown Speaker 2:04:13
Yeah. Big thick.

Unknown Speaker 2:04:20
Mother, well, we're thinking woman,

Unknown Speaker 2:04:24
she's 96 she's still

Unknown Speaker 2:04:26
like, Wow.

Speaker 2 2:04:29
I want to talk to Samsung. Before I leave. Now I'm still Charlie, Charlie. Yeah, because I know, I know. A bit about the Samsung so as I said in our family if they bounce off like Vic, Samsung, his brother, married Marguerite the Harris. Oh. Who's my my first cousin. And then Lydia Sampson would be Charlie's auntie. His dad's sister, okay,

Speaker 1 2:05:04
because there was all the girls and then all the boys and that family member.

Speaker 2 2:05:08
Well, the old family there was 13 is all girls have a couple of boys and they have all all boys, a couple of girls. So Lydia Samson married John Palau, Jr. who was my great aunt's son. Right. And so he, that's first cousin. So Lydia Samson married dad's first cousin, right, the Palau and then a little bit of a Charlotte Sampson, who would be Charlie's Auntie Lydia's sister, married John Martin. And they had Henry Chester, who married my auntie rose.

Unknown Speaker 2:05:52
That comes back around.

Speaker 2 2:05:54
That's all Samsung. So I want to talk with Charlie. So I've got his brothers and sisters. In order. I talked to lil Charlie and we're just starting to get together.

Unknown Speaker 2:06:06
Is he doing a good? He's a cool guy. He knows a lot.

Unknown Speaker 2:06:12
We could record that. If you don't mind. I'll give you a

Speaker 2 2:06:14
record. Yeah, I just I just thought I'm here. Anyway, I thought I'd be up one doing the jig by now. Still, I can't get very far with this thing. Let me know

Speaker 1 2:06:23
when you do it. I have some for Charlie too. So I dropped you off the recorder in this.

Speaker 2 2:06:27
Okay. Yeah, I want to get his brothers and sisters in order. And and then what he knows it was aunties and uncles. Because it's that generation. Right? We have two connections married into there and one for his brother. We have charts of his family

Speaker 1 2:06:41
because they did the talk. We did it. They did. on it. Yeah. So I'll send you it. So you'll have that ahead of time. Okay, good.

Speaker 3 2:06:51
So cool. We can, I mean, this is gonna be very fun. First, second, and third. You'll sort all this stuff up. I can see the whole the chronology. Lots of interconnections is so cool. It really just recreates a settler community or an early Island community. That's exactly we're close knit, of course, you're married. I mean, it's the same where I come from, I mean, my grandparents were cousins. And in on the Maori side, because it was populations are falling down their love North Island Maori moving down. So we're from high ranking families. So we had to marry cousins, just to keep the knowledge in tight to just keep it

Speaker 2 2:07:33
together. Yeah, well, with the wines that was that sacred vine. EA, they called it and they that was the royal blood. So you married if you married a brother or a sister or a father and a daughter or whatever, if you kept that connection through that family than the royal blood was there and never it never changed. Yeah, until the you know, the missionary showed up and said, you know, we don't know what's happening here. The English have tried this work.

Speaker 3 2:08:07
Have you heard of regionalism part of their culture is different with

Speaker 2 2:08:10
Yeah, reasons for it. Yeah. So there was a lot of that when you get back into that area, but when we get into here on Saltspring it was just smaller groups of people. Yeah, like Yeah, well, I

Unknown Speaker 2:08:22
always got the impression I mean, just Yeah, yeah. They didn't

Speaker 2 2:08:25
so much Mary intermarry families so much. My uncle Leo married Margaret Shepard, and she was like his second cousin once removed, distant, but the rest of them would be like marrying another Hawaiian family or, or native white or whatever. But still, it was really a small little community. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:08:49
And spread out the Samson's or near

Speaker 3 2:08:52
the north Andrews. Yeah. Yes. We don't have any winds up there. His mum and dad

Unknown Speaker 2:08:57
came down to visit us more than once, but I, the time I remember as they came down in their wagon,

Unknown Speaker 2:09:07
long trip, two big old horses well,

Unknown Speaker 2:09:10
and we had to stay overnight, because it took longer to get there and then they visit them and call

Unknown Speaker 2:09:17
them that great old would you have been

Unknown Speaker 2:09:21
an overnight trip together like that.

Unknown Speaker 2:09:23
Wow. So what year

Unknown Speaker 2:09:26
did you be 50 to

Unknown Speaker 2:09:29
be a day trip again? overnighters and they

Unknown Speaker 2:09:34
walk all the way over to Lacey's to get a bus and it was washboard the whole way. And I've never been to Ganges. We had to go to the school. There was 300 kids in that school.

Unknown Speaker 2:09:49
course because we're from the south and yeah,

Unknown Speaker 2:09:54
things don't change. So you'd never been to Ghana He's that interest I

Unknown Speaker 2:10:00
think I've been once by boat but not not Overland. Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:10:04
I remember the kitchens going to school the kitchen because it Carl or what a couple of them never been off the island at that time, right. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 2:10:13
The next sort of Howard Horrell he never hardly been on Saltzman Yeah. I never been in the United States. The first time I

Speaker 1 2:10:19
went to Victoria, yeah, yeah, it's different times. And that's, you know, I mean, yeah, we're older. But it's not that long ago. I think I

Speaker 2 2:10:26
was six when I first left the army because we went to get school clothes. Always.

Unknown Speaker 2:10:33
You could smell Victoria halfway. Halfway there. You could smell it.

Unknown Speaker 2:10:38
Well, it was hard and that, like

Speaker 3 2:10:44
asphalt? Yeah, just a city smell, which we don't even notice anymore. No,

Unknown Speaker 2:10:48
we don't know if we ever had asphalt. You know? Yeah. We've never enough vehicles to have fumes. But it was also a food smell. Past restaurants along the way that French fry grease. The grease smell. Yeah. Wow.

Unknown Speaker 2:11:08
That's great. It's nothing.

Unknown Speaker 2:11:13
I smelt Victoria before I was ever there.

Unknown Speaker 2:11:17
Because it depends what you smell if you want to follow the center.

Speaker 3 2:11:22
Okay, so a wrap. I think sounds really good. To break. We got stuff in there. You never know you do these interviews. And then when you start writing Oh, wow. Cool stuff. And I know we got some cool stuff here.

Speaker 1 2:11:35
Definitely. So what do you want to turn this off? What do you want to do about? Follow up? I'll send you all that stuff. We won't get this transcribed. I don't think anytime soon, Chris. But we can go ahead with

Unknown Speaker 2:11:49
other volunteers do this stuff. Yeah, well,

Unknown Speaker 2:11:53
volunteers, but I don't think we can go ahead, though, still and talk to John, I would love

Speaker 3 2:11:59
to know, maybe you know, if he's into it next Saturday, it would be great or anytime I'm around during the week,

Unknown Speaker 2:12:04
maybe? When When do you think you'll be going? Well,

Speaker 2 2:12:10
probably not for at least another week, maybe to get through the list. To go. Okay, well. Let's,

Speaker 1 2:12:24
let's we'll email about that and see what you think about John. I'm away next week, but doesn't matter about me. But if if you guys were able to get together, I'll make sure somebody's

Unknown Speaker 2:12:31
got a recorder. Yeah, you could just give me that. You

Speaker 1 2:12:34
if you guys want to talk to John. And we'll tack that on to this and then we'll look at other leads. Oh, but I do want to I want you to have this in order to do I think I'll clear this and I'll bring it back to you. You'll be the conduit and if you happen to leave and you're still gonna talk to John and maybe that happens here. Whatever it could be, you could have this. And then further down the road we'll look at you'll use this for Charlie. And then we'll look at loneliness and Geraldine

Speaker 3 2:13:03
stands daughter give you the transcript that I did that interview.

Unknown Speaker 2:13:06
I don't think they were gonna send it to Cory. Yeah, right. That would be very good. Because

Speaker 3 2:13:16
it's really good. And you know, once we accept transcribe that, did you have their permission before I handed it over? They said oh, yeah, no problem, but I guess they just slipped your mind or something. It says there's one little change.

Unknown Speaker 2:13:28
Oh, that sounds familiar. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 2:13:31
there's nothing major. It's just some,

Speaker 1 2:13:33
but I feel like I stopped would that have been whether it had been attached to them? Anyway, I'll have to look it up if you've got her name or anything?

Speaker 3 2:13:40
Yeah, I'll check. Yeah, archives person you could contact me so let's do this by the way

Unknown Speaker 2:14:12
a handwritten thing

Unknown Speaker 2:14:18
Yeah. And he thought I needed a look at where I shot and he said no, I wasn't interested in something nobody

Unknown Speaker 2:14:34
trying to do after a lot of my letter boy wanted to do you have and then

Unknown Speaker 2:14:43
it came from a family and literally that's all to get what got together that day. Out there. Wow.

Unknown Speaker 2:14:51
Are usability such an opportunity,

Unknown Speaker 2:14:53
isn't that not? That's one Oh,

Speaker 3 2:15:00
As you all know oh you can't tell if you were Navy anyway but

Speaker 3 2:15:13
I have some native friends that if you've never guessed like red as a blonde like

Unknown Speaker 2:15:19
my friend Mary Alice, she used to call us in Washington that it turns out her mom and dad were both bargaining she knows that Oh no she loves me really want to but she never she never embrace it ever

Speaker 3 2:15:46
so when you read you know be Hamilton stories you think there's a lot of Rhapsody in her stories there. She talks to the clients and their communities are all accurate Yeah, she was more than

Unknown Speaker 2:15:58
just use cold It sounds quite a bit tough but you guys be heard. Let me see down singing on the beach clam and singing down the beach. reading your book. Now it's in that audio? Oh, is that transcribe get us a grant. Yeah. I'd like to hear about your software

Unknown Speaker 2:16:20
yeah, I'll see you I know that students are using hey

Unknown Speaker 2:16:28
this is your great color coding like this is super cool. Yeah, look at that. Where is that

Unknown Speaker 2:16:38
if you guys call your brains

Unknown Speaker 2:16:45
I remember I get it hurts like when your back legs Yeah John John wrote up the description but in the dictionary that I got is expressing pain we always do a lot of that

Unknown Speaker 2:17:11
Oh, that's cool. Cool. This usually wake us up the three times that were a combination of stupidity and ignorance often displayed by revisions man up country. Indians are shores. But the cultist the definition is she looks bad or worthless nothing broken I'm worthy cultural cups while this

Speaker 2 2:17:39
was really someone had died biscuit flowed but it's done

Speaker 3 2:17:44
I've got a newspaper account with the analysis clean Douglas cut swallowed Saltspring with Mr. Lyon

Unknown Speaker 2:17:52
it's cool

Unknown Speaker 2:17:57
to take a job insult jokes ploy

Unknown Speaker 2:18:07
that we always employ was that

Unknown Speaker 2:18:10
really business trade Barbie

Speaker 3 2:18:17
has any kind of words referring to like taboo subjects spiritual stuff

Unknown Speaker 2:18:23
occult This is us is that how you as being high us as many

Unknown Speaker 2:18:31
so we can shoot once I get this cake we can I can share it because we'll have a copy of your

Speaker 3 2:18:37
local police station access super cool. Let's do that squat that's like putting a nominate like when you couldn't ask them for something does something Yeah, so that's what he was doing. I think you know just for drawing some interesting

Unknown Speaker 2:18:53
position don't do what I don't wake up syndrome. But note from the teachers on his report card

Unknown Speaker 2:19:01
when she was asking

Unknown Speaker 2:19:03
what what this interview means squad

Unknown Speaker 2:19:10
report card said the Joshua is excelling in all subjects. He says exemption of physical education is where he proclaims that he's to squat to walk across a rule

Unknown Speaker 2:19:27
that is real

Unknown Speaker 2:19:31
bill I don't know where to go okay. So that Yeah, yeah. John's neighbor was talking to him across the fence and he's young were there you there Yeah, that Josh he's nice young man.

Unknown Speaker 2:19:45
Tell me what's the scissor Bill check it out. themselves. test that

Unknown Speaker 2:19:57
was all your stuff. This is all great.

Unknown Speaker 2:19:59
I think it was like that

Unknown Speaker 2:20:03
he would fly

Unknown Speaker 2:20:07
blind die

Speaker 2 2:20:08
upset is in turn over etc also means changed reverse and go back

Speaker 3 2:20:14
so these ones that you remember you got some of these from a dictionary these are your These are words that we use

Unknown Speaker 2:20:25
for your essays when he now he's died

Unknown Speaker 2:20:27
yeah by the way that is what the fumble pauses say can apply is she look forward that means you know ultimately changed revised to go back on the ball we just said keep it black we latch and it's meant to guide us okay now.

Unknown Speaker 2:20:44
Okay, so cool like this? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:20:51
Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:20:52
You can wager 28th That's all Yeah.

Speaker 2 2:21:01
I said that's what I was saying to the guy went and did a course on

Unknown Speaker 2:21:06
language. And this guy was telling us all these words, and he asked if we remembered anything, and I told him a few words I think this long boat and he jumped in

Unknown Speaker 2:21:22
the deer and

Unknown Speaker 2:21:26
clams not the clams and my which deer

Unknown Speaker 2:21:31
is a woman Yeah. Okay, everything you need

Unknown Speaker 2:21:38
that's stupid crazy. Yeah. Look like local navy. No, no, no, no, no,

Unknown Speaker 2:21:45
that's a language isn't

Speaker 2 2:21:46
it? That's closer to rely on. But it's probably it's a mix of whatever

Speaker 3 2:21:51
you're finding aligned and connected they said Look there's it's in there someplace in the dictionary it's like in the case because they think it would be identified

Unknown Speaker 2:22:01
as the one that local

Unknown Speaker 2:22:06
lot of local look within global stuff

Unknown Speaker 2:22:11
with disagree with a rotten kid. Yeah, right. squalling isn't any different Sachi? Malik they're here that's the wind derivative approach. We call the open that open with your first qoocam command just power magic power come in come on with him man. And men. Oh commoner All right. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:22:56
Is it the man with

Speaker 3 2:22:57
the mama? Okay, yeah, that's the that's the words that they use to describe like winter dances spiritual stuff, anything like guardian spirit. Cover all those things

Unknown Speaker 2:23:10
that are just just

Unknown Speaker 2:23:16
10 Man

Unknown Speaker 2:23:20
So Paul had his own version of it. That's cool. Like it's

Unknown Speaker 2:23:25
not 1010 10 Min. M am pm am anyway

Unknown Speaker 2:23:33
that's what I was used to. But you say to Mom

Unknown Speaker 2:23:38
Yeah, the man was so your

Unknown Speaker 2:23:42
changes have a why am i

Speaker 3 2:23:44
No that's that's a schmuck word. I mean, Trump's language in the Columbia River

Speaker 2 2:23:52
maybe we live strombel fluctuate through all

Unknown Speaker 2:23:58
the people the people under your bed at night

Unknown Speaker 2:24:14
found the father found do it. Oh, money money.

Unknown Speaker 2:24:20
Companies.

Unknown Speaker 2:24:23
Definitely so so those are basic on the rock. Is that the little green ones? No, no, they're they're quite big. Oh, they're tightening. Yes. Okay. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 2:24:34
You gotta upgrade this because you upgrade but you know what, you gotta you know, have some definitions in there. No,

Unknown Speaker 2:24:42
no, some of them are because those are probably the ones that are just rolling with them. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:24:48
Yeah, we got more commentary.

Unknown Speaker 2:24:52
Thomas. That's your underwear. So stay with

Unknown Speaker 2:24:59
us. That's probably easier. Now

Speaker 3 2:25:01
you should have this thing. It's good to get your presentations for sure. All of those.

Unknown Speaker 2:25:08
And you that was Edward jolly Lacey. Okay. And his mother his wife. Okay.

Speaker 3 2:25:19
Time we have to just interview guys with this list just go through it. And there was the whole interview right there. I think gotta do it. Yeah. Estimation about the

Unknown Speaker 2:25:34
energy Sophie and her oldest daughter Josie one time went down and talking about some of the old words. Josie said something and all of a sudden they'll come to ollie kicking in. I remember kicking him in the fall aliquot.

Unknown Speaker 2:25:54
The joke but it hasn't Katie, her grandfather was Simon Charlie. Oh, yeah. And he would say she'd say he called him. Oh, sharp. Oh. And

Speaker 2 2:26:13
Asha is like, Oh, shoot. Whatever. All lifted my ponies. You've got no ears. Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:26:23
And uncle used to pull our ears all the time. It's easy.

Unknown Speaker 2:26:32
So cool. You got to think nothing. I was just wait. People talk.

Unknown Speaker 2:26:40
All of the wealth of information, Dad,

Unknown Speaker 2:26:43
that would make up his own version of most of it. No.

Unknown Speaker 2:26:48
I think John would have a lot to add to this too. Right? If we do. We'll get together with the three of you.

Unknown Speaker 2:26:55
All right. Anybody else? Kind of made that list of things that might not be

Speaker 3 2:27:01
on here. Oh, yeah. That's the whole interview there just to go through that list. I mean, we got a lot today on. Yes. Like you said, memories come out.

Unknown Speaker 2:27:11
Hey, when you sign those for me? Oh, sure. I asked her to get because I want to get I know. I'm passing them on to people to pass on, you know, because I think it's such a great book. If you guys Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:27:26
10 years ago on my island once yummy. Can't read for more than a few minutes. I got to do an audio book. So tell these guys the basic premise

Unknown Speaker 2:27:39
the truth of where this book came. Oh,

Speaker 3 2:27:41
this deed is a collection of stories written by an English woman from sort of a, you know, an upper class family to move to to Manus. She was born in New Zealand actually. And they settled there. And then, you know, they're telling our doneita they were an upper class the morning, the father the policeman. But anyway, in her 40s, she, during the Depression, she wanted to be a writer. She's very influenced by Pauline Johnson. And she got a job at the time, or the daily colonists to just produce a weekly series of bi weekly series of stories, historical articles about couchtuner. Janine has, that's where she lives over in Jamaica. And so she has their housekeeper or their their may either their helper was Mary rice, who's the high ranking woman from Connecticut? This lady she's in the front here. holonomic.

Unknown Speaker 2:28:33
Very knowledgeable.

Speaker 3 2:28:34
Yeah, super knowledgeable at any way you better prior or just started writing these articles you got paid by the column. It's so they're long articles, but they're just so detailed. And she recorded exactly what they said. And she recorded their Indian names, and little anecdotes about their lives. And then these incredible stories like this is the real stuff like real world traditions that the people and all the people she interviewed were high ranking people. And they render the impression that okay, if we, if this woman is going to write our stories, here's an opportunity for us to tell the people about who we are about our origin stories about our histories, and that and they'll they'll realize, you know, that we're being oppressed and all this stuff. But of course, it didn't play out that way. He says to just be, you know, amusing articles in the weekly, you know, the weekend or edition of the time colonist. But and they ran for about five or six years, and have the 60 stories in here. Most of them are by women, which was exceptional in those days for somebody to go into a community and record stories from women. And there's stuff in here you will find anywhere, any of the anthropology, she did Franz Boas, any male who came here and interviewed elders, they don't come close and I make some comparisons in there of the work she recorded versus the work of some of these, you know, established male anthropologists They never interviewed women. These are all mostly women and half the series are from Connecticut, Thailand, and they all the little stories. The Gulf Islands, they're really, really Yeah. And it's a book you can start anyway. Right? I put it in a chronological order, because I found all her columns in a box in the archive. This is cool. And I didn't know where they were trying. They didn't know. They were in Victoria. It was researching another book. I did a tour of the coast. And I came across in the first one I started reading up and then oh, this is like, she knows what she's doing. And oh, look at the person she talked to it's Wow. And yeah, put it together over six years.

Unknown Speaker 2:30:42
And the other really

Speaker 1 2:30:44
cool thing out of that is that she always wanted to have this in a book form. She

Unknown Speaker 2:30:48
tried again and again. Yes, I understand. Yeah. And he made that happen. Yeah, I think it's so cool. Here's a here's Mary, Mary.

Speaker 3 2:30:56
And her daughter or granddaughter, three famous women, Ellen White, who just died a while ago, Dr. Ellen White, who I knew and she was one of my informants for this whole thing. I gave her the transcripts because when I started writing services, I don't know you know, the school to publish this. So I went and met her and we had and then I got to know her really well. And she's getting full permission to have it. Oh, that's one reason yeah. Yeah. So now when did

Unknown Speaker 2:31:28
someone do it?

Speaker 3 2:31:32
Yeah, I'll leave you guys want that picture in 1982. But delicate two months later, that house blew down the last standing longhouse. Oh, god

Speaker 2 2:31:56
she and her, she goes back to the Palouse. She's really steeped in the First Nations arena point. Arena. So she's an older lady or an elder. She's 90s Oh, yeah, but they're a couple months ago. She's 95

Unknown Speaker 2:32:25
related to Stephen points. Yes.

Speaker 3 2:32:30
No, good. No, yeah, I suppose this interview for all stories, because so many people around

Speaker 2 2:32:36
yeah, I asked her about the Palouse and she knew her grandfather, or father. No, grandfather's new album, but we didn't know anything about it.

Unknown Speaker 2:32:53
And we need discovery for her that's

Speaker 3 2:32:56
especially amazing place for me to hear VC and I just know it my work. Go to communities around me just amazing. People just know so much. You know, it's there's not many places in the US it's like that to us, you know, the native people were the bastard a whole different trip. Whereas here you know, Douglas, he kept native people were able to keep their, you know, winter villages and all their connections to place. So you can go to any, you know, if you go to the Sacramento River in California used to be 2030 villages long, they're not one are gone. But here you go at the Fraser River, there's 30 villages, and you can go in any one of those communities, you'll find some old person who will be able to talk in the language point out places, you know, it's just it's amazing. You didn't realize there was that cultural historical continuity difference unlike anywhere else, you're working or whatever places like it bothers me a bit just as a scientific nerd because you want to be able to you know, tell people what you learn a lot some of it this is restricted knowledge.

Unknown Speaker 2:34:01
Can you gather it? Hold it? Yeah,

Speaker 3 2:34:04
and I do. But even with my PhD I remember interviewing a guy but the use of the red paint it's got a lot of symbolism and meaning to it and so after writing this stuff down Wow, this is so cool. He's telling you to but you know, they don't want you writing about this was telling about the use of the paint and properties and it's it basically I come to the same conclusions in my work but I couldn't cite this really critical evidence that he's giving you the sort of stuff about it because it was too secret and powerful and he said you know, I can't share it. But careful reader will does their work. Yeah, I think

Speaker 3 2:34:49
so too much. A great shot down, sample whatever happened to green ray We're gonna

Unknown Speaker 2:35:05
go to that yeah, we've got a really that's where I came from. Carrie and I have to go talk to them. Very nice. Oh Wait can we get

Unknown Speaker 2:35:15
the keynote speaker DC black history taught you guys yet

Unknown Speaker 2:35:20
tomorrow over in Turkey chooser something else a period

Unknown Speaker 2:35:27
because we're involved

Unknown Speaker 2:35:28
in a project with Fran Morrison who's coming here so she wants us to come and talk about archives

Speaker 1 2:35:38
black have to hold on right when we asked her to come here she said well yeah but maybe when you come talk to argue so darling

Unknown Speaker 2:35:48
yeah good stuff we're here of course they've got that first nation Stewart black man hears lots of people talking

Speaker 3 2:36:05
so much. They've been sort of a they don't have much to do with the archive. Boy they have a lot of world history and I know Danny Caldwell's because we buy lumber and stuff and other stuff he knows he thinks oh I want to carry black carry Cobos got

Unknown Speaker 2:36:22
it for black covers yeah

Unknown Speaker 2:36:25
yeah and it's all a blue

Unknown Speaker 2:36:37
no reason

Unknown Speaker 2:36:48
you know but if you don't want

Unknown Speaker 2:36:56
to just take the bumper sticker for you

Speaker 1 2:37:14
know good good oh maybe you might get part of that

Unknown Speaker 2:37:20
burn down beautiful

Unknown Speaker 2:37:38
I had this one year I needed that sort of amount of like living

Unknown Speaker 2:37:47
and he's in front of your

Unknown Speaker 2:37:50
fire within your church and I finally found one that doesn't happen Yeah. And who did it sorry Mr. Hardy. Ichi Jr. is a wow sound like an Indian name doesn't but he said which is come back Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:38:27
Hey, guys. Oh, thank you for coming. I hope to see you before you leave town but sounds like you're gonna be here for a couple of weeks.

Unknown Speaker 2:38:39
So I can get rid of this thing. Like I

Unknown Speaker 2:38:44
said, I talked to him last night. She says I mean, let me know and keep coming back. So I'll do a little delivery from

Speaker 3 2:38:49
service. But yeah, we can shoot for next Saturday and downer All right, whenever. Okay, thank you. Garden Spot and Brinkworth cactus here

Unknown Speaker 2:39:16
Yeah. If I didn't get it at first and then I went oh my god, I wrote it down. We've got to catch a treat. We got some good stuff there. It was really great.

Unknown Speaker 2:39:30
Thank you so much. Yeah, great, rich history

Speaker 1 2:39:40
Okay, I'll get hold of God and give her us because that's the bones getting down.

Unknown Speaker 2:39:45
Okay, all right. Bye.

Speaker 1 2:41:54
Good Day. I'm just rolling into town Do you want me to stop in question mark

Speaker 1 2:44:46
think I'll come by whatever the case and download this interview

Unknown Speaker 2:45:00
You? Let's put our time down in that book well I just we just finished the interview

Unknown Speaker 2:48:18
I have

Unknown Speaker 2:48:19
trouble printing yeah just wondering about that because I didn't realize grayscale is better for black and white pictures of black people so I kind of killed a lot of papers from that but

Speaker 1 2:48:30
have you got what you feel you want the word you missing anything with challenge COMM Today

Unknown Speaker 2:49:03
light goes off of course that's really strange

Unknown Speaker 2:49:10
yeah well and I want to plug it into downloaded so maybe strategist and even if I take the batteries out because otherwise it's recording

Unknown Speaker 2:49:24
what I wanted to print immediately I ended up getting some really cool stuff. That's good. And then I made some subtitles we have I was kind of just take

Unknown Speaker 2:49:40
notice that it goes 2119 So I wondered if there was a point so I started digging around. No, but I didn't find another black piece of paper and like great. Why are we gonna put 500 Little stickies when we can just glue it to the thing and you know

Speaker 1 2:49:54
what? We don't have any other stickies. We don't. Jesse has some Jesse went and got more I used every Little

Unknown Speaker 2:50:01
flippies Board have done that a million. Yeah grab the double sided tape at home I can do this at home like stick it up on there. What I don't can't do at home and I wonder whether you want to print out oh no problem as a temporary but I've got