Salt Spring Island Archives

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Audio

John & Lee Roland on First Nations Ancestry

interviewed by Kate Roland, 22 February 2020

Accession Number
Date 22 February 2020
Media digital recording Audio mp3 √
duration 195 minutes

427_Kate-Roland_John_Lee-Roland_22-02-2020.mp3

otter.ai

11.03.2024

no

Outline

    Archives, baptisms, and insurance claims.
  • Mary and Sophie discuss genealogy research at the Archives Museum, with Mary mentioning baptisms and marriages.
    Hawaiian land ownership and genealogy.
  • Speaker 1 asks if "Raimond" is a name or word in French, and Speaker 2 responds with a Marae sir.
  • Speaker 2 mentions a spell from Cortland and how the names could have come from different places, with Speaker 1 agreeing and providing examples.
  • John Palau described William's property on Portland Island, including its location and size, and mentioned Eric Russell's involvement in the survey.
  • The group discussed the history of the property and its previous owners, including Abel Douglas, Joseph Downey, and George Fisher, and how they were connected to the Native American community.
    Hawaiian land grants and preemptions.
  • Speaker 2 mentions Charles Khan's book, which describes the first settlers in the area, including Key Vaigai, who was here the earliest.
  • Speaker 2 and Unknown Speaker discuss the history of the land, including legal disputes and preemptions, and how they can get all the crown grants to learn more about the area's history.
    Land ownership and history in a small town.
  • Speaker 1 mentions a house located near the curve of Jackson Road, which is believed to be the original property of Sparrow.
  • Speaker 2 asks when Sparrow acquired the property, and Speaker 1 replies that there is no written record of the date in the chrome grant.
    Historical sites and property ownership.
  • Speaker 2 is interested in documenting historical sites in the area, including the location of a former cabin.
  • Speaker 1 mentions a burned-down main house and the location of metal and glass pieces found by kids playing in the area.
  • Speakers discuss a local area, mentioning specific locations and individuals, including Ben Hicks and John.
  • John Sparrow settled in the area now known as Shepherds Drive, according to crown grant records.
    Family history and cultural heritage.
  • Speakers discuss local history, properties, and families in rural area.
  • Uncle Paul is central to discussions of Hawaiian heritage.
  • The old man was described as a big, tall person with a fit body.
    Memories of growing up in Victoria, BC.
  • John's friend arranged a meeting with James Nesbitt, who told funny stories and shared life insurance details.
  • Unknown Speaker reflects on changes in their hometown, including environmental impacts and development.
  • Speaker 5 recounts shooting a deer on the way to school and the impact on the local bird population.
  • Discussion of ducks, fish, and iodine in a Canadian context.
    Skull Island and local wildlife.
  • Speaker 4 recounts a childhood memory of finding a handmade sign on Skull Island, which was previously known as "Skylands.
  • "
  • Speaker 4's father and uncle Paul's brothers and sisters referred to the island as "Skulls and Bones.
  • "
  • Speaker 2 remembers stories of killer whales in Corporate Harbor, with Speaker 5 adding that they were once black and now workers.
  • Speaker 2 and Speaker 5 discuss the confusion around the harbor's pods and their visibility, with Speaker 2 sharing a Maori joke about loud voices.
  • Speaker 5 describes a clam garden in disrepair, with efforts to rebuild and maintain it.
    Clam digging and fishing in New Zealand.
  • Speaker 5 remembers a clam garden in New Zealand, built with ripples in grass and wire at the bottom.
  • Speaker 2 asks about the construction of the clam garden, with speaker 5 explaining it was made of flimsy material and built near the open end.
  • Speakers reminisce about clam digging in Florida, sharing personal experiences and memories.
  • Speaker 5 describes a beach in New Jersey, mentioning a stream and a house.
    Fishing, smelts, and family memories.
  • Speaker 5 threatens violence and destruction, recalling a past trauma involving a young person.
  • Speaker 5 recounts fishing stories with grandmother, using traditional gear and techniques.
  • Speaker 5 recounts making Ghana balls using a copper mold, while Speaker 3 and Unknown Speaker discuss smelts and their potential use in Fulford.
    A mysterious place with unresolved murders.
  • Unknown speaker recounts a story about a man who went missing while fishing in English Bay.
  • In a conversation among five people, they discuss a murder mystery, Native American reserves, and nicknames.
  • In Cooper summer school, people shared memories of a small town with a resort-like atmosphere, clamming, fishing, and a defrocked lawyer.
    Archaeology, artifacts, and local history.
  • The Clampetts established a village 5000 years ago, with artifacts including a giant wooden dish and discarded items like grandpa's fish camp in Monterey Bay.
  • Speakers discuss a man named Maxwell who lived in a greenhouse and had a brother named Dave.
    Hunting, deer, and wildlife in a small town.
  • Speaker 5 shares stories about their friend Peter Holmes, who built a fence along a road on sticks and chicken wire to keep out crab shacks.
  • Old Man Lazy's name is Arthur or Jolly Lacey, and he hunts ducks.
  • Speaker 5 recounts past experiences with hunting and wildlife in their area.
  • Mr. Furnace, a large Newfoundland dog, was remembered by speakers in Sydney, Australia.
    Childhood memories and a mysterious house.
  • Speaker 4 recounts memories of a mysterious man who lived in various houses in the area, including one by the water and another with a spinning wheel.
    Logging industry history and geography.
  • Bob Jepsen retired early and founded Canadian Wire Rope Company in Vancouver, which became a subsidiary of British Wire Company.
  • Speaker 5 describes a watercourse that comes from a copper mine, leading to a steep slope with little waterfalls.
  • Discussion of a deep ravine and a steep beach near Hamilton's, with mentions of a pond and a marker for Adam on a small island off Portland Island.
    School memories and fishing adventures.
  • John and Evelyn attended Isabel Point School together, reminiscing about their shared alma mater.
  • Miss Annie Ripley was a teacher at the school and had a cat that would come to school with her every day.
  • Miss McDonald was a teacher at the school and was known for driving a car with a 55 on the back.
  • Speaker 4 shares a story about their mother catching a large fish and the guests she took fishing with her being impressed (1:38-1:40).
  • Speaker 1 mentions the large family's history in the area and their connection to the Ganges community (1:40-1:41).
    A man's journey to reunite with his family after a plane trip.
  • Colin shares a story about his Uncle Paul and a memorable trip they took together.
  • Speaker 5 describes carrying a heavy man to safety, meeting families affected by the disaster, and encountering representatives from various countries.
    Family history and genealogy.
  • Speaker 5 shares a story about a man killed by being pickled in a barrel and sent back to England.
  • Speaker 5 discusses a competent leader who changed the world, while Speakers 3 and Unknown mention unrelated topics.
  • Ronnie Patton Burger was a relative of the Mrs.
    Logging, farming, and wildlife in a rural area.
  • Speaker 5 shared stories about a tree climber named Ronnie who was good at his job, despite the challenges of the job.
  • Speaker 2 mentioned a tree that was still standing, and Speaker 5 confirmed that it was the last time he did that job.
  • Duncan received a small amount of dynamite, while Molly destroyed much of it.
  • Speaker 5 mentions vagrants knocking deer off their bikes in the area.
  • Speaker 2 discusses the possibility of growing heritage grains in the region, mentioning the need for gray land and the work of farmer Mel Maxwell.
    Memories of a small town in Canada.
  • Warren and Speaker 5 discuss a fence line that runs across multiple properties in the valley, with Speaker 5 mentioning that it was a "huge amount of work" to build.
  • Jim Howard recounts his experiences with motorcycles and friends.
  • Speaker 5 remembers a man named Patty Mike and recounts a story about him drowning himself in a river.
  • Speaker 3 brings up the topic of a woman named Lady Lager, who used to have a lot of vocabulary and was known for her stories.
    Moving graves and memories of the past.
  • Speaker 1 asks about moving a road and church, and Cecile Samson says she'll send back what she has.
  • Unknown speaker mentions moving graves and a scuttled road, and Speaker 5 recalls a stone guy.
  • Grandpa built a boathouse with dimensional lumber found on the beach.
  • Speaker 4 describes a boat trip where they had to stand up and sleep in the boat, with no beach camping or fishing due to rough seas.
  • Speaker 5 talks about the design of the boat, including the use of endgrain knees to hold the transom to the bottom of the hull, and how these knees tend to wear out over time.
  • Speaker 5 describes a large, paved road that leads to a remote area with potential for mineral deposits.
  • Speaker 2 mentions a giant tree in the area that is exceptionally big, with some good J trees nearby.
    Mineral deposits and mining in a remote area.
  • Speakers discuss a hidden silver and copper mine in the area, with one speaker mentioning a map from the 1960s that shows its location.
  • Speaker 5 mentions a possible gold deposit in the area, while Speaker 2 is skeptical and recalls a previous search for gold that yielded no results.
    Logging history and land ownership in British Columbia.
  • Participants discuss origins of place names in the Pacific Northwest, sharing insights and stories.
  • Speaker 2 discusses the history of logging on Salt Spring Island, mentioning early settler Mastery who preempted land and died before doing anything with it, leaving it open for others to claim.
  • Speaker 5 shares a story about Gordon Godwin, a wizard who picked property and got the equipment he needed every second person, and recounts how trade unions organized amongst shippers to get in brackets and a couple of weeks late but the documentary and logging Minister.
  • Speakers reminisce about past experiences and people in their community.
    Clam gardens and their history.
  • Speaker 2 shares stories about their friend's house that was taken over by the government, and how they found old property records that helped them understand the history of the area.
  • Speaker 3 mentions Brian Smallshaw, a historian who has studied the Japanese dispossession on the island, and how his research is valuable for understanding the area's history.
  • Speakers discuss clam gardens, a type of intertidal habitat, and their cultural significance to Indigenous communities.
  • Clam gardens in Saanich, BC are being restored by archaeologists and community groups to preserve cultural heritage and provide habitat for marine life.
    Archaeological sites and burial grounds on Russell Island.
  • Speaker 5 discusses underwater archaeology on Russell Island, including a recent discovery of a well.
  • Unknown Speaker: There are many burials in the area, including a Roman Catholic woman who made them stop digging and buried the bodies in a rose garden.
  • Speaker 5: Archaeologists are digging a hole 20 feet long for $35,000 in approval fees, and they will find something.
  • Speaker 2 shares their experience with a local legend about a buried treasure in the harbor, mentioning they've worked with archaeological firms that have dug at the site without finding anything.
  • Speaker 2's friend Dave McCallum salvaged cedar sticks from a dumped fish trap in the harbor, which they believe may be from an older myth that was buried in the area.
    Local history and genealogy.
  • Speaker 5 discusses dredging and pump out stations in the harbor, with a focus on the mistake of PCBs being found instead of cadmium.
  • Speakers discuss transcribing interviews for an ethnographic map, with one speaker mentioning software to transcribe voice recordings.
  • Lumbee people are related to the Lumbee and San Juan families.
    Preserving family history and genealogy documents.
  • Speaker 1 discusses their grandmother's history with Speaker 3, including documents and photographs.
    Historical preservation and family history.
  • Speaker 2 shares their experience with archiving family photos and the importance of having copies in case of a fire or loss.
  • Speaker 1 discusses their plan to visit historical locations and take pictures, with the help of Speaker 2 and Geraldine.
    Historical sites and structures on Vancouver Island.
  • Speaker 3 suggests honoring the parents of Rose and Richard with a memorial garden, while Speaker 2 expresses interest in documenting the internment information of their parents.
  • Speaker 2 mentions that one of the original concrete ovens at the cider place was destroyed, and suggests documenting the remaining ovens.
  • Speaker 2 mentions a mysterious charcoal structure on the Webster property, which is unexplainable and shouldn't be there (3:07:31).
  • Speakers 4 and 9 discuss a house built on the Webster property, with Speaker 4 recalling memories of the house being built and Speaker 9 mentioning that it's a nice house (3:08:02-3:08:11).
  • Discussion of preempted properties in Fulford Harbour, including grants and ownership history.
  • Discussion of a map and its potential use for understanding the livelihoods of past generations.

Unknown Speaker 0:00
I mean, Mary.

Speaker 1 0:00
Sophie mentioned you there? Yes. Yeah. Cool. This is really good stuff. So, already running it. It was

Speaker 2 0:12
I bought these at the archives. It's baptisms and marriages, okay? Which archives? The Archives Museum? Great.

Unknown Speaker 0:28
No, they lie they allow you to as long as you don't use it.

Unknown Speaker 0:30
So then every time she was sort of on the other side

Unknown Speaker 0:37
of archives now it's like

Speaker 1 0:39
a secret fortress. I went in there last week, weeks ago and had been there for about 10 years. So I get special card. Oh, really fussy. What would you bring in?

Unknown Speaker 0:49
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 0:50
But they take your pencil. Yeah, you gotta break everything.

Unknown Speaker 0:53
You can take a seat have no see footnote, neighbors, but they do allow cameras. Oh, yeah. You take pictures of everything they want you to do.

Speaker 2 1:02
But some things, some things they say no, you can't photograph. Usually, I think it's the stuff if you order it from Oh, okay. From in the back. And they go and get it. Yes. People having issues with just stuff that just stinks because that's the stuff you're looking for. And you find it they say, oh, yeah, yeah. Well, we're having that argument.

Speaker 1 1:24
Brian, you're arguing somebody with Well, that's, you

Speaker 3 1:27
know, it's a form of for one thing, it's it's a very information you might need to document. Exactly. Yeah, insurance claims or stuff, you know, so

Unknown Speaker 1:35
and it makes it so much richer.

Speaker 1 1:40
So they according to this she is Scotland? Yes. So that's really interesting. And they end up on Isabella point. Yeah, see, these are interesting. What's

Speaker 2 1:50
this? Raimond is that a name? Or is that a word in French? So in something in the presence of rain, oh, and the godmother Yeah, I

Unknown Speaker 2:01
am a marae sir.

Speaker 2 2:03
I got up the Translate French to English. Oh, yeah. Did and got some of the words and somewhere in here is like the godmother and stuff.

Speaker 1 2:15
Yeah, something of the spouse. Guide better. Well, that's a really interesting spell. So that's a name from Cortland. But you know that doesn't mean it could be could have come from here I got back their names go on well good place and they

Speaker 2 2:30
just you know if they didn't know they just what are some Indian schools? I will do the quant let's

Speaker 1 2:36
see Lester. I'll see fee there's a woman her daughter? Yes.

Speaker 2 2:40
Julius as opposed to how would Sunday in French?

Unknown Speaker 2:44
Sunday in French? What fee is

Unknown Speaker 2:46
daughter daughter? Gosh.

Speaker 1 2:50
Fee fie. Fie Li Li Yeah, yeah, let's see here daughter natural. Yeah. Julie daughter natural. Tony and look at how they spell that. I think Tony and Koholint Khan are the same where you get the sounds. But I think it's the same word just sound shift. And you think of the way they change ks and T's and y n and n New Zealand. I can see that Kahana to harmony.

Speaker 2 3:13
Well, he that was either a waffle blue sometimes it was Wahoo but this is why he which was a way that's

Speaker 1 3:23
interesting, because in Monterey they've just been place while he has a place like a while he Tapu is a sacred

Speaker 2 3:28
place. Yeah, well, this was the French people saying where are you from?

Unknown Speaker 3:32
Why we call them why we call them we often spell type Y e g e.

Speaker 2 3:39
Y E. Yeah, they had a few different spellings for Hawaii. That's

Speaker 1 3:43
really neat. So this so we Yeah, forget copies of this. I

Speaker 2 3:49
can send these to you. And you've got them all. I just I just picked them off my camera and put him on here.

Unknown Speaker 3:55
Because I was thinking for this whole project. We need some things. We need things.

Unknown Speaker 3:59
I've got things you said crown

Unknown Speaker 4:01
grants, ethnographic mapping.

Unknown Speaker 4:06
This is a thing Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 4:10
Yeah, all the oh oh.

Speaker 2 4:14
This is Portland Island. Slaving away. This is good. This is Portland Island night now John Palau had to and for William had one and three he's a

Speaker 1 4:26
great I'm so and so 1890 and

Speaker 2 4:30
then this you got to line it up. Oh, yeah. This is excellent. So unfortunately, oh, this is a lot smaller. So this side of the harbor

Speaker 1 4:41
Wow. This is really good. Which put all this together with these ones.

Speaker 2 4:49
And Eric Russell on I drew him in because he was preempted him. I didn't put the date on that one. But here he is. This is William helped me Here also,

Speaker 1 4:59
we had all Those Yeah, so he's a real early guy. Apparently. And apparently some map I think in our stone know that

Unknown Speaker 5:07
brown or green screen Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 5:11
Shows, cabins and things. Oh, and these maps so we got to go through all that because he described a lot of the people that he met during a survey of 1870. And a lot of them are wisely describes of living with native wife. We have all that stuff. It's just a matter of collating it all

Speaker 2 5:27
left and we rock along here because you can see how much that he had there. And that's the park today, actually on Liezl map she has there in the hallway. It's a map of Saltspring and it shows pretty much exactly that. Was that right? Yeah, Abel Douglas was the son of Murayama hula hula Tian rasa lila. Okay. Believe homea on this and he ended up giving it I don't know if he gave it to her if she bought it. I heard that it was a gift to her. I'm a boy. Why I don't know what the Kings I don't think we're Hawaiian. I started to put them online. Um, I think they were Hawaiian. Native as Yes, yes. And then Joseph Downey seemed to have a piece of property up in here, which I never knew about. He was way down here. And George Fisher is also a son of Maremma Jolla and he had this up here this is above Fulford. Now this piece here was a shepherd one, this bigger one here er was 15. And that skinny one is 14 Or no, 14 is the pink. I picked it in there. That's Shepherd. Yeah. And across the hardware, that little tiny piece right in there is also 14. And that's where the church sits. And I think it was shepherd that offered the land for the church, I heard will mean O'Connor, but I can't see him ever having property up there. So

Speaker 3 6:47
yeah, how do you know it was belong to that little slice belong to him as well?

Speaker 2 6:50
Because it's in the preemption? Oh, I just didn't think it in laughter. Oh, I missed that spot. Right across

Unknown Speaker 6:56
the harbor and things.

Speaker 1 6:58
So is this in in Hawaiian has before Jeopardy? I

Speaker 2 7:02
don't think so. It's a crown grant from 1884. And that was the time they were pre empting. And if if someone had it before him didn't improve it then they would have had to give it up. Yeah. And then he could preempt it after that. We've got that those

Speaker 3 7:16
routes Sandwell as well. And all she's got the preemption records, dates, everything going back

Speaker 1 7:25
goes got all the double check. Yeah, because I've gone through stuff and I see some inconsistencies. Okay, but it'd be good to CrossRef Oh, definitely. Well, I

Speaker 2 7:33
had this at home because I did this once before and this I just did a couple of days ago, I just got the crown grants back up on the VCR five site and and did this again.

Speaker 1 7:42
This is really cool. So we should get copies of all his crown grams grants and get the chronology of when these you know,

Unknown Speaker 7:51
everything that I've covered this this one

Speaker 1 7:54
and I was looking through Charles Khan's book, you know, it's he describes the first settlers is key Vaigai. Who was here the first like he was here the earliest Oh, and he Yeah, and then there's some legal dispute later, I guess he gave up his French and then now con i got it. And it was some legal proceedings from it was hurt his widow. Key vase widow was was trying to get back to land for her son. So there's some legal stuff, but you know, the No.

Unknown Speaker 8:28
Charles's book, yeah, thank

Unknown Speaker 8:31
ya que IAWE que I

Unknown Speaker 8:36
was gonna grant but anyway,

Speaker 2 8:37
I heard that I've seen that preemption. Why didn't I find that that would be

Speaker 1 8:42
a good way to get to find out the history of these, because we can get all the crown grounds? Because I think he was he was in the 60s. Yeah, he was the earliest one. Yeah, according to Charles, but and there's some documentation about it because of this court case. were so keen a fever and just different spellings as usual. He dies or leaves it to give up the preemption and like it says, widow tried to get it back on behalf of their son and it was in my den it was on by now, Connor, like it's really good to know where his place was. It must have been here. Like we're Despero did you take over Despero take over his Yeah,

Speaker 2 9:20
I was looking at that. And that's about right where we live. Right. And so if he if he got the crown grant for that. Did he sell it later? No. But to whom? As I said, Uncle Stan, or cousins down said that Malecon have bought it off of Peterson. Right. Who was like a son in law. So did Sparrow sell it to Peterson and Peterson?

Unknown Speaker 9:48
Like, Terry's good stuff? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 9:52
let's do questions.

Speaker 1 9:54
This early guy like this be interesting. See how he fits in and get a hold of the the courts. phonics like parent has a whole bunch of it. And it's cited in Charles, but we maybe didn't have it in the archives. Well, this because this the earliest guys, so be really good to figure out where he was. This

Unknown Speaker 10:10
is where we live. Like, when you look at this, this is gonna be

Unknown Speaker 10:13
where it makes sense. Yeah.

Speaker 2 10:16
See how it curves you there's Jackson rock, right. And this is the Oh, yeah. Okay. And that's where we are there. So just about here's where it curves up. And we're directly across. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I see here. I don't know if these are all still marked the same. This is 41. So I'm sure that yeah, that's it. Yeah. Here's this one.

Unknown Speaker 10:41
Yeah.

Speaker 1 10:44
So this has got to be the, the original kind of thing. So we got to figure out so when did Sparrow get ahold of it?

Speaker 2 10:51
I don't have one written down in the date of the chrome grant. But there's still a house. There's a homestead still here. That's when we visited here. Ruby Alton's right. We didn't really visit this one. That's the shepherd place. was originally Julian O'Connor's place. Julian O'Connor married George Shepherd. So it became the shepherd property. And that house you told me about it. You said it's an old house it's obviously still there though. Yeah, that's the one when Isabella point the shepherd place Oh,

Unknown Speaker 11:27
and then gotta get picked to ask for it burns

Speaker 2 11:30
school is just right above it, where we pulled in above it right. And then there's the lovely house here. And then the to how many house is right beside it that we didn't go to we'll have to just drive down and say Hey, can you take a picture down? Because it's still there.

Speaker 1 11:46
The owner of the property has gotten in touch with me looks like in West van or kids. So I heard your history and blah blah. But I never I've never heard back from him. So but you got back to him? No, or no I did and he said I'll get ahold of you sometime in the future but hasn't happened at least some guys they're interested in the place and I'm sure it'd be great to go visit

Speaker 2 12:11
the one of the burger roots is is usually always open for us to go and take pictures of the burgers still

Unknown Speaker 12:16
on that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 12:19
I think it's a great idea to go photograph all these things sooner the better.

Speaker 2 12:22
So there's there's there's the townie place definitely gotta get a picture the shepherds and the Palouse. Is it the reveal one's duck reserver

Speaker 1 12:36
his house originally John that's cool there's another one so there's a whole

Speaker 2 12:39
bunch Andrew Palau built that and then there's a house here John P vines places still here. And Malloy place on me

Speaker 1 12:49
that's like six buildings five buildings that are still viable. I'm eventually in because I'm an archaeologist. I'm kind of interested in the in the sites themselves. Like if there's any known cabin location. It'd be really cool to just photographic document it

Speaker 2 13:05
used to be the foundation of the novel camera house on Portland, but it's gone now. I don't know if it just disappeared into the Rockies there.

Speaker 1 13:15
But I wonder about here like, like I'm thinking back to that visit with your brother Dave. And we're looking down he said the original cabinet somewhere down there. Like there'd be some trade like who's creeks go down there and yeah, just any old cabin down there. Oh no, no one where you go down here.

Unknown Speaker 13:38
Snazzy space,

Unknown Speaker 13:40
the main house burned down. And as kids used to play down there, find pieces of metal glass. All sorts of stuff. We never thought to save anything. Grandpa moved into he made woodshedding straight down in front of our house.

Speaker 1 14:05
Okay, it's gone. So nobody rebuilt on the site. On the original house. Yeah. Oh, it'd be fun to document that say like just get a photograph of the location. Just for

Unknown Speaker 14:25
this your brother? Yes. Awesome.

Unknown Speaker 14:26
Can you get a chair sister

Unknown Speaker 14:37
you can go right over here

Unknown Speaker 14:44
Great. You want to know books there? Maybe John wants to be on this side. So you guys

Unknown Speaker 15:00
I need to know

Unknown Speaker 15:03
you I think you guys should sort of snug up John

Unknown Speaker 15:05
here maybe you're gonna sit together

Unknown Speaker 15:09
okay

Unknown Speaker 15:14
only got one hearing

Unknown Speaker 15:17
too many of your shows Oh

Unknown Speaker 15:30
Dean is just looking over the throne grant Do you remember this is the other side of the highway This is us over here on

Speaker 2 15:43
the other one we like to be the point areas here we are neck of the woods. So Abel Douglas own this place do you know him living out there?

Unknown Speaker 15:54
Well I don't really live in it anyway

Speaker 2 15:56
okay because here's your allowance so he was around corner a little wrinkles. But I don't remember hosting or anything.

Unknown Speaker 16:04
Well I'm in high bay as

Speaker 2 16:11
well this is beaver point here Xander ruffles place man hacks around the corner like that. Yeah. Just like we're here coming across. So we can't see Mechanicsburg from our house. No. Okay. It was

Unknown Speaker 16:28
last week, I really

Speaker 1 16:36
Ben Hicks. He was the cider guy. I heard his story that he made bootleg cider

Unknown Speaker 16:44
I didn't narrow it down

Unknown Speaker 16:50
you know, that's a good place thing to get.

Speaker 3 16:52
Yeah, well, that's Brian Hayes. Oh, yeah, there's a you know in modern math in case it helps PISA

Unknown Speaker 17:03
your way around

Unknown Speaker 17:07
the view hi to American Idol.

Speaker 2 17:12
Now, William Powell Mayer. He had wrestled Ireland and this did you ever remember him being in there? Now meaning

Unknown Speaker 17:20
property. And

Unknown Speaker 17:21
this is the Peavine place above him? Actually, they call it D vine. But his name is cow, John cow.

Speaker 2 17:29
John P girl. I guess it was P vine was the middle name. But they've always got attached. Yeah, and I don't it's probably a misspelling. But in the in the actual in the preemption or in the crown grant. It's a John P Kahal.

Unknown Speaker 17:46
Let me ask you that. You know, I Why did that name Why did we pee right. And she brought yet another name and it looks like he spelled it right. But it was wasn't was

Unknown Speaker 18:01
the kings were not Hawaiian. I started to put them on there. And I

Unknown Speaker 18:10
know she was she was Yeah, her old Mrs. King was related to marriage relationships or no, no.

Speaker 1 18:26
So we were talking just before you came trying to figure out where the original note Kana homestead was in relation to these later owners and what you know, we're, I mean, we started to seem to be where they where you guys grew up. But any thoughts on that? Like? Well, I

Unknown Speaker 18:44
know that I always understood that was a part of this team property. Shepherds drive.

Speaker 2 18:53
See, these are the crown grants them this John Sparrow got both those pieces? And that's about where we live. Yeah. So he must have crown granted at first before anybody else.

Speaker 1 19:05
No, not necessarily, because you're just talking to that key, the guy who's supposed to be the first one. And he settled somewhere in here. And we must I'm sure we got his some record about where he he preempted that he left. That's the thing these guys. We're going to place them leave someone else to take it over.

Unknown Speaker 19:25
Yeah, no record got. I found this diary of preemptions. If we're not developing, we

Speaker 2 19:31
turned. Yeah, that's what I understand. You could preempt it. And if you didn't do anything to us, no improvements. You didn't get disappeared from the market. If you did, you got the crown grant. They didn't issue the crown grant until you actually showed the improvement.

Unknown Speaker 19:50
Between Rob Barbican was a recipient because he got the property and logged in and the guy said was sold out it was yours because you grabbed it with she never developed it was he launched it with you before but who is that?

Unknown Speaker 20:09
That's interesting and

Unknown Speaker 20:10
then came down with gravity

Speaker 2 20:19
do you know like there's the Lumley place down there that's on the burgers property and then the townie Place Is it still there and you know those people

Unknown Speaker 20:34
I met people on that property lot years ago. I don't think they're still there. Is Burgard, still lonely

Unknown Speaker 20:54
Sophie Kelly that's Sophie townie or new Ana row. That's

Unknown Speaker 21:00
where Scratchbuilding used to live every year. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 21:04
can I get you? Anything? colinearity

Unknown Speaker 21:10
do some searches in that resemble of these?

Unknown Speaker 21:13
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 21:15
We were also talking to that old house. It's still here when we thinking it's good. Shepherd's house. Oh.

Speaker 2 21:24
Big Steve love 14 Live. That was the old shepherd place, right. Yeah, yeah. So the house is still there. Now? Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 21:34
So got some trees in the front. So now you can see it. Yeah. Yeah, the old way

Unknown Speaker 21:46
to shoot from his porch to our house was extremely volatile. Bridgette, rattling on the roof,

Unknown Speaker 21:58
who was doing the shooting, shooting deep before?

Speaker 3 22:02
Steve who's still here? That's his dad.

Speaker 1 22:12
And we were also talking about that all house when you said burned down. That's your family house. Yeah. Brothers and sisters, and no one's called on it since it's been. Do you know whose property that's on now? Oh, who was it now? Joe? We should get photographed.

Speaker 2 22:32
Joe? Joe. Joe, the seagulls. Seagulls? seagulls? Seagulls? Bagels? Yeah. Season?

Unknown Speaker 22:42
Oh, is he just did he just move here? Yes.

Unknown Speaker 22:45
In the last five years or so.

Speaker 1 22:47
But a beautiful property. So the house is on that down near the water? Yes. We know

Unknown Speaker 22:53
where the old house was halfway between? Your house was down. One of the closest ones to the water. They didn't build on the water. The old family home which was close to the water for those days. Yeah. Water, the orchard will begin to Orchard on

Speaker 1 23:09
that property. Yeah. Because there's kind of a creek in there just trying to think. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 23:19
There's a watercourse that runs between. Alright, from Georgia. That was a running stream at one time. Randy young decided he was going to build a dam

Unknown Speaker 23:33
engineer next door. He was a real engineer. Governors and damnit let go on a rainstorm and wash out the road. The creek bed and my grandmother bought out

Speaker 1 23:52
boathouse Ah, so, because there's so much we could talk about one thing I'd be really interested in because he seems to be real central part. To everyone's knowledge of the history is your Uncle Paul. So could you maybe talk about him and your maybe your earliest awareness of your Hawaiian heritage? I guess it was sort of in

Unknown Speaker 24:16
my camera when I started. It started when we talk long ago, he didn't believe it was here it was really just a story. Give me a drag. And he started to say you got to remember this. You gotta remember this. Come here. It's your job. Your job. We always talked about the old man which was sometimes he was talking about his great grandmother sometimes. There was there was always a reference to the other old man which is quacks I suppose, but we never do. We never know about that name.

Unknown Speaker 25:01
We get all stuff that came to him through his mother he had the time to spend on listen the mother and collect the stories

Unknown Speaker 25:17
and of course you do because he was the one constant he had all the brothers and sisters stories as well. And he would tell you sometimes the same story over and over again until you got it right. It changed a bit you think it was two stories, but maybe it was the first one just with a little change. But that's how it worked. Eventually eventually you recognize this as the same story. Sometimes it's like today people tell me

Speaker 2 25:59
grandpa never spoke of no more. Yeah, he did.

Unknown Speaker 26:04
Yeah, it was

Unknown Speaker 26:12
but it wasn't often but he did. Again, you always get rid of as the old man

Speaker 1 26:21
so based on all those stories, how would you describe the old man the early nokhada Based on what you learned from here,

Unknown Speaker 26:29
they they always said he was big man. And and most of the signs were pretty big. When were big in one way or another, but he was tall. Probably coming probably Welborn Well restore said he was well over six feet. I went to a meeting 50 odd years ago. And one of the characters that was here was Tommy Welborn Welborn storage and Victoria. And he had known now calm and within that meeting was Ainsley Halligan Canada's Olympic swimmer and he opened the EU tell us a story about opening the crystal gardens, Freetown crystal. They're the three swimmers. They were the first few guys suitable opening ceremonies. Tommy Well, we're in Johnny Weissmuller in Ducato. Duke glad to come to Salisbury when he was on that trip but way way better but Tommy remember that

Unknown Speaker 27:55
I do remember that story because the name wow

Unknown Speaker 28:08
yeah, he was a fit. He was Oh, man. All 50 years ago. absolutely crystal clear. Like not, not the old stuff. He still ran a store. He's told me when I

Unknown Speaker 28:35
started the meeting. He said, Why is everybody there? Why are you free job in life. And people come with their answers. He says, Well, my job was a turd picker. I worked at a bakery that was big readout on Wall Street and he had a better job it was that was.

Speaker 3 29:07
What was the meeting for John? What was the what to get me the people remember, it was

Unknown Speaker 29:13
put together by a friend of mine. Who was giving me an opportunity to meet James Nesbitt who wrote for college. I love the guy. He was just a crack up. He did strike in the middle of any story. He told you the middle of every story never started there. Because some would take him on of course, but we bought life insurance from the same guy. And so he said to me that you gave me an opportunity to meet this guy. And it was it was really worth it. Yeah, the new like Taco Bell. I get that straight last ones. Oh dice I think

Unknown Speaker 30:06
But there was at home again was the city archivist at the time which is just really his labor as well and again that that Scottish shot shopkeepers memory that is just whatever the cost you know where everything is and this goes in archives he was the city archives for years

Speaker 1 30:29
so I wonder if there's any stories relating to your family in the city archives in Victoria Oh yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 30:37
At least breed

Unknown Speaker 30:43
we got to have everything but

Unknown Speaker 30:45
muscling Windows Oh yes. windows were expensive pick somebody out you guys was famous for talking your windows Oh

Unknown Speaker 30:58
was it was it allowed us and he was just trying to cool him off do my favorite yeah

Unknown Speaker 31:07
New Year's Day

Unknown Speaker 31:10
that's pretty cool. That's when they live down come mackerel

Unknown Speaker 31:13
Doubletree. Which streets right

Speaker 1 31:24
do you grew up you grew up here are born and raised how has it changed since you were a little kid? Fulford Oh, I think this is something good to document because I mean, a lot of drastic changes. I mean, even in our lifetimes exists. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 31:41
Remarkable. When I first came here 20 years ago, I was cleaning up the Space Administration we started they found some grief would grab us from the 60s and it was the same argument sometimes the same people do change the date

Speaker 1 32:01
but how about the environment? That's kind of interesting. It was getting at like the way like I know I grew up in a house sound and we were talking about this at one of our talks about the numbers of animals the ducks killed. Oh, tell me give us a sense of what it was like when you were young like with the natural world in

Unknown Speaker 32:22
Well, I mean he was do we shall we get a fish for dinner? It was like like getting sent the same way. We just run going there we're there to get I have a no my mother my grade five teacher excusing me from school because I shot a deer on his way on the bus that morning

Unknown Speaker 32:52
the birds population was that's probably the most easily seen change in the season for everyone. Glittery sound globe and all that extra unbelievable. 1000s

Unknown Speaker 33:10
and lots of different kinds of darks. Lots of different kinds of ducks. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 33:17
That we wouldn't have 1000 When When in that knowledge. Gold night canvasbacks

Unknown Speaker 33:26
can

Unknown Speaker 33:32
you remember we had lumens to lots of rooms the next Disney might enjoy

Unknown Speaker 33:46
the lazy brothers they used to read these 10 gauge that'd be good. And bad nonconvex oh man rappel came in over one day and his little look flat bottom row and mounted on a deck a boat is a TrackMan that's the size of tobacco again jsap Pump gun and the gun is chained to the boat.

Unknown Speaker 34:30
And you take this take your tobacco gambling gunpowder put them in another tobacco game for sports use LED Nuts and Bolts is fine rock is the better shot you put a lot of the gun would last. So steel shot would wreck the gun. But you know bucket and lead was expensive. They pour oil is in there and you pull the chainstay and then they lead but bushing on the book and you paddle like pump out a little bit. Where was that one sneaks up on you haven't heard it I presume that you got from where you are in the boat to the full video and covered in a highway was about half a mile as solid ducks for the beach. So then somebody gets out with a shotgun, but was were 10 gauge 12 gauge target. And all these birds hit the air and then he fires his cannon. Whoo she didn't get the boat tips and pieces peel off the road and it's raining duck's back to the smoke clear where there's still backstabbing.

Speaker 2 35:38
I remember that I never liked wild duck. Hall and dad loved

Speaker 1 35:44
frequently. It was a menu item. Yeah,

Speaker 2 35:47
it was really deep and fishy and they are what they eat is like like yummy.

Unknown Speaker 36:00
The whole house baking class for sure. You'd bake them out so you couldn't you roast them. Yeah, it'll taste

Unknown Speaker 36:04
fishy.

Unknown Speaker 36:05
Fishy. What's that? What's that brown stuff? Not the curriculum, the brown stuff. Iodine. Iodine. That's what they taste. Iodine.

Unknown Speaker 36:19
Yeah. Yeah. Well, iodine is good for you. It's very healthy for you. Yeah, it

Unknown Speaker 36:25
was it's a really strong strong it's because they eat

Unknown Speaker 36:30
fish.

Unknown Speaker 36:33
They are what they eat.

Unknown Speaker 36:37
We will get ducks on the flyway. Wherever you're that didn't taste like fish. If you shot him. First day they're here. Black Brandon in Canada gets you to travel with me stick around now.

Speaker 1 36:54
That's right. They are to native are they Canada geese are not native.

Unknown Speaker 36:58
No. No, we should be quite a rarity. We're

Unknown Speaker 37:05
still alive we can hold it back.

Unknown Speaker 37:11
This guy sees snow goose down on the beach and we have a jolly Lacey's so you guys gonna get his gun he goes back he shoots snow good sticks out to his dad and the trumpet is one and there's like nine of them left in the world that he's already made

Unknown Speaker 37:37
I know you can get rid of them they will be a mistake

Speaker 1 37:44
I know that they destroyed those little islands the village rocks the village islands off Isabel point used to be a lot of really interesting plants and that is covered in Canada Goose ship. Everything's kind of dead.

Unknown Speaker 37:58
There is a little island over there are Buda silent by the end of peers and it was the corporates that took that one yeah it's just it's white and the trees dead so

Unknown Speaker 38:12
they never used to be there the karma answer

Unknown Speaker 38:15
No no it was it was a nice little island to the point where they abused me on it and then the garments just moved in and made it their nesting grounds I guess

Unknown Speaker 38:24
because it degrees up very well yeah we see very used to go to the rookie when they built them second we're the second set of doctors

Unknown Speaker 38:39
they think rookery in there displace them

Unknown Speaker 38:44
but I didn't know that they were all village John's you think it's again the geese that moved in there? Yeah,

Speaker 1 38:52
I was there like couple of years ago and there used to be a lot of cactus friends so at the sea and they're all just burnt with the the theses and all these signs you know this is a candidate park you know this is a sensitive ecosystem please keep them

Unknown Speaker 39:09
together. Yeah, they drove me up to Colorado Canadian.

Speaker 1 39:12
Yes sculpt so tell us about Skull Island we talked about it but be interesting to get your take on it.

Unknown Speaker 39:20
Well, what was to bring now it's always your

Unknown Speaker 39:24
personal oystercatchers when we were kids, they've come there since then.

Unknown Speaker 39:28
So interesting. Yes, because

Unknown Speaker 39:31
we used to go up there and dig clams in those little shell beaches, nice clams in there. And we went over there one day and people were on the beach and get off the island. And then they pointed that there was a handmade science stuck in there. It's a waster catcher rookery or something right. And they were telling us to go out You know, you'll get off that bucket of clams anyway. There was no oystercatchers there and we were kids just do regular seagulls. Crows, eagles. And do you know what? Our parents call it?

Unknown Speaker 40:20
Skylands? Well, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 40:24
that's right. Yeah. When they, dad and uncle Paul and his brothers and sisters were young. It was skulls and bones, violence. But eventually they all got well, he said these

Unknown Speaker 40:38
Why don't you find it in the water? You'd either? Really? For sure what are you good?

Speaker 1 40:47
So everybody's all interested in killer whales. What? Can You Do you remember any stories of killer whales in corporate harbor? Or numbers of them? I mean, it must have been way more or not

Unknown Speaker 41:03
they were Blackfish then they weren't. Back when we were Indians. They were black. They were now they were workers. Exactly. I support the wizard. Chiefs which ones are the ones that are elected to the inherited hereditary? Well Blackfish there's a comedian waiting. Right now it's on there a couple years ago.

Unknown Speaker 41:39
Yeah, but not like they used to know.

Unknown Speaker 41:43
We drew a crowd there a couple of years ago they gave it by David bacon or so many boats they couldn't move. I remember going on that day had that Sanhedrin front of our base, first of the shingle, and then go down and roll on that and you'd see the big swirl of dirt Koperasi rub up on the bottom riding on that sand. You see it there because we rather I bang you were looking down at it and then go in and fishing go out and rock Bowser I guess this race there's a lot of confusion about these things eat some of them on the Eat mammals on eats solely on on he brings out that if the only use breaks down you'll often see him being gone fishing when everything visual on the beach

Unknown Speaker 42:39
Do you remember us being able to hear them before we could see the harbor pods were not like no you might see two or three no couple together

Unknown Speaker 42:52
of course in the nighttime there when they got quiet we had no idea where they were but you can hear

Speaker 1 43:01
Sam has been incredible in those days so quiet. Here's the way of the water. I

Unknown Speaker 43:06
remember talking to Uncle Dave when we go to we got down on kings wharf and talking to him

Unknown Speaker 43:16
certainly

Unknown Speaker 43:19
high water or something Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 43:22
Portland Island really used to joke between Portland and restaurant summer now

Speaker 1 43:32
that's an old Maori thing to get loud voices sound a certain he'll yell over the other guy here yet.

Unknown Speaker 43:37
My dog voice

Speaker 1 43:44
Oh yeah. What about do you remember when you were younger native people using the harbor so what were you doing in there?

Unknown Speaker 43:56
Energy regressor harbor which was an orchard orchard. And it was well when I was good it was already in disrepair but it was still produced. In a season they'd come in and harvest the fruit there was a good news coming camera by the church above the Catholic Church cameras plants in there and they do that as a seasonal Irishman. They'd be in the creek. recently ended duck clams Euro the the clam garden in front of me they kind of tried to rebuild

Unknown Speaker 44:37
those down they're trying to work on to university kids. I

Unknown Speaker 44:42
think that's wrong. Anyhow, there's the clam garden. We've seen it's one of the largest telcos Yeah, just remaining. And they told me to trap Quadra. You know Okay, I think I met the guys from ubiquity I was debuted at one of the one of them and so visually it was one of the population demanded that they had to raise. There were more Indians and groundwood face clamps. So they come to them. And we after the population decline we used as especially when maintained well inside it was really rock. And when we were kids, they used to come there was a couple from I was out there from college, but I'm not dead sure that he was the rich Indian able to afford square and

Unknown Speaker 45:55
three of them would come and they cut all their poles and try to duck blasters out and tie it all together. And then big have a bunch of clamps inside the clam grade smash mounted rocks okay community put these older gates down and then pull the whole thing off. They close up 100 feet of it. But from the from out here from a pile of rocks in they go down and so the fish we smarten up and he noticed why he gets shot he gets around to take off. But usually when they figure you know water we're gonna water so they just go pick them up. And it was, you know, just traveled got one with him. She got a salmon. She got a stupid one. So yeah, he told us

Unknown Speaker 46:45
to get a crab and she came back with

Unknown Speaker 46:49
it Alvin you New Zealand. I well remember that go? It goes. We'd had to go out every morning to check grandpa's book because they jump it and then overnight. You get it for it was still good. You know?

Speaker 1 47:01
You remember that feature? years ago? Wasn't like, oh, discovery by scientists.

Unknown Speaker 47:11
What was it was the Indians practical? Yeah, reuse what was there? Yeah, you

Speaker 1 47:16
explained it perfect. And you know, it's both and it? Did they believe you're counted the fish trout? Because it's both right. I mean, you obviously I remember that. It's so important. That's really good data we got there.

Unknown Speaker 47:28
Those old gates, which were laying there in the bushes in front of Doug badgers. Remember, he gave me a dugout canoe that was just laying there to it. He gave me

Unknown Speaker 47:39
where is that now? I guess it's gone. Well, yeah. That was from random by this clever

Unknown Speaker 47:45
inside the garden. Now. They're almost the beginning of it. I guess. They were just we in the bushes. You could see where they were, but you go longer. You build them every year because they rent rotten every year.

Speaker 1 48:02
So that's, that's kind of the shore. That's that kind of clam garden. It's kind of open at one end here. Yeah. So wherever they put the fence right along the opening. Yeah. You remember how I was? I think you mentioned already but just to get how was it? How was it constructed?

Unknown Speaker 48:19
It was all ripples, just like a farm gate ended in grass braces. Okay, and then they had wire at the bottom

Speaker 1 48:29
fishing at the crosspieces kinda like this sort of thing. Yeah, there was just something

Unknown Speaker 48:35
that would be a top piece of that middle piece and then across race it was flimsy because it was speeding you're catching Well

Speaker 2 48:54
yeah. Hi, Nick from around the open end and get inside the clouds of laughter and then the type of go out

Speaker 3 49:03
so don't how old would you have been when you saw that? Would you think oh, we're still seeing that.

Unknown Speaker 49:09
I remember from before I started school and I remember when we were going to school so 40 cities What do you know

Unknown Speaker 49:25
and these guys the rich anyway, you're not sure where they were from? You

Unknown Speaker 49:29
know, because we had your whole goal used to come from Galliano. And then there was another guy from Cooper, who was a clam buyer and I came up with a while ago. I can remember that guy's name

Speaker 1 49:46
Rice, rice, it was a native guy. Yeah. Rice, or any rice. I don't remember why And he was in he was from Gallup. What do you know? Tell us about him. What do you remember?

Unknown Speaker 50:06
Fishermen from the most were like minions and the ghosts still are yeah

Speaker 1 50:18
they go from Cooper and I guess of course commercial clam. I mean majors would come in dig

Unknown Speaker 50:23
you dig clams and you put them aside people to float on him when your name on it or you carve a piece of wood cranberry come anything well, big wins and you money was a complete honor system.

Speaker 1 50:38
So are these the old better clams? The Manila's? Yeah, so regions at Brown for

Unknown Speaker 50:45
Persian real electrifies in Japan, really

Unknown Speaker 50:49
here remember that? What

Unknown Speaker 50:51
about the Japanese clam it came in later.

Unknown Speaker 50:54
They didn't do well then. You know, they're they're invasives and they're, there's fussy about water temperature. They're fussy about salinity. And I see now they've adapted and they're out there on the FLORIDA BEACHES but they weren't then you get them you'd go to boot canal it's really started and when that was preferred habitat

Unknown Speaker 51:21
one Yep, still is.

Unknown Speaker 51:24
You dig 100 pounds here and not move your feet. Right

Unknown Speaker 51:33
we tell him tell him a little

Speaker 1 51:38
better clam habitat. Hold on. That's the shoreline here

Unknown Speaker 51:45
Julie's beach in front of you. Well, yeah. That was a big commercial clam beach. Commercial clam diggers done there. All of that.

Unknown Speaker 52:02
So where's jerseys beach?

Unknown Speaker 52:15
They recycled my glasses. No, I broke Oh, it's gonna be a week. Where's the watercourse that runs down

Unknown Speaker 52:27
yes isn't the greatest

Unknown Speaker 52:32
because it had the rose Jersey beach

Unknown Speaker 52:39
and why was it called Jersey John

Unknown Speaker 52:42
knew that

Unknown Speaker 52:50
it's if you're driving down David road

Unknown Speaker 53:02
the big stream that runs out there for halfway I'm just ready to Hamilton's the big stream comes down off the hill, where David goes up top of the hill, female down across boathouse usually but that's yours he's beach.

Unknown Speaker 53:18
So it's in front of the old David's house.

Unknown Speaker 53:26
He fought in the Boer War every day in his eyebrows terrible my

Unknown Speaker 53:41
wife was a Hamilton Mabel Mabel

Unknown Speaker 53:52
they loaned me to me it was a deaf mute is the deer already knew ignored GLAAD. So Albert was it looked like it looked like a piece of wicker furniture and we'll not weird semi two wheels in the back and he robbed them and he had his whole assault rifle to deal with

Unknown Speaker 54:28
so I was going to school I'm probably seven or eight years old and they strike this deal where Father's gonna lead me to Hamilton's to shoot a couple of years. I can have one of everyone on my dress over them and that'll put the fear of God in the rest of you all go away I go there. Just destroyed right My family and we just write a crop atop of this regularly or shed that I've managed years down and ever it doesn't say should you do like I stole and I said this isn't just out of the second it's like hey, I've heard like somebody raised them well yeah they breed them with the orchard so for a couple of months I go over and last couple of years nobody could use more venison no freezer then so then we had to get going so here we are tonight with Judy Kirby's gonna happen it's gonna be a big job find it find it all comes to comfort close when they send out the hurt enough and we're gonna have the baby when dad may Davis where's my father down and tell you gotta grow up through the garden? He says he always wondered one of the cool people call me that Aries Harry that's one handy little blog you've got there

Unknown Speaker 56:17
falling on a young guy

Unknown Speaker 56:27
with my but yeah, when you think about it pretty remarkably good. Listening to worst case my guy was there the boy will Yeah

Unknown Speaker 56:46
Do you remember grandpa fishing herring? I heard stories of I never ever

Unknown Speaker 56:53
talk about that herring fishing

Unknown Speaker 56:58
we mostly fishing we did we was very Greek and it was very food vision debate and the best of it was inactive as interactive as you can fill a boat with fairly short order with the knife a big long thin blade with a

Unknown Speaker 57:22
yeah

Unknown Speaker 57:28
but for food fishing you just went where they were if you saw him if you're fishing and that would occur it inside the Russell Island or when they're spawning they'd be radiant would have been weightless one but you wanted them before that for

Unknown Speaker 57:56
a job could show up anywhere anywhere yeah. But it was real dependable and acrobatics. We will go we got a fish in active bass my grandmother didn't didn't didn't approve of motors in about a year. You're older you used to sail see a fair bid for weed reward fish Accurate Battle getting there today. And you spend some time you spend a night in the hammocks reserve just as you go around one point and do exactly what did you call it? That Indian

Unknown Speaker 58:38
reserve to have a name

Unknown Speaker 58:42
I don't know what whether it has a name or not but it's just as you go around Helens point Yeah, I

Speaker 1 58:46
know. That kalpas houses in there yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 58:50
Was there anything there then? Was there anything there then? Remember that was a call Indian Bay?

Unknown Speaker 58:57
Maybe? Could be I don't think anybody really lived there for the summer can't be Yeah. They come here for the season and then you go fish in the past and he would have to he can make fishing gear

Unknown Speaker 59:18
with my poor led herring. Gaffer put the hooks on trolling wire steel wire and examine them all for them all.

Unknown Speaker 59:34
The way go to them all. This oxygen was actually in the back facing the right way because he couldn't move. And then there's the rent war and when he wasn't drive explored new phase he puts in blue lettering and then he'd sit there for hours. Because he wants to read it. And he's carving the scales and he's got like the link Good

Unknown Speaker 1:00:06
remember that melting landed making making

Unknown Speaker 1:00:10
Ghana balls? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:12
Did he make their own molds like Carson the

Unknown Speaker 1:00:15
mold that he had was was a sheet metal mold made out of copper and it was carved into wood many tactical copper okay

Unknown Speaker 1:00:34
and I think then you threw the wood away yeah, yeah, yeah, it's set in a bucket of sand, dry sand and supported the shape of it. And the board got better. And then he made if you make two halves like same thing you had to make sure your event was

Unknown Speaker 1:00:56
in the right spot commandment. Me give me a wonderful bomb you did it wrong. One drop of water bath February cry over my boots on fire you drew

Speaker 3 1:01:21
I just want to ask you because I think I asked you is Do you remember remember? Remember any smelt ever being in Fulford

Unknown Speaker 1:01:29
Yeah. We had smell tears. No. Ganges River was better than Ganges. I've heard was there some info for them? Yeah. Not much on our side. Okay. They want to steal your beach and they want to rock house. And that little beach Tomic Charlie's bay there that were there we go there it was melting.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:08
wouldn't remember anything? smelt?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:10
Where's that beach up? Rock.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:15
Red Cross straight across the bay from our hosts. Skull Island. Rocks right.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:30
No speech it'd be perfect. Smelts would be that'd be perfect. He's not welcome.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:42
I told him that last week. Yeah, you got that story, feed his face and put a roadblock at the

Unknown Speaker 1:02:49
I remember uncles. I went to somebody else when it wasn't related. But he was always traveling to stand on the fishbowl. And they were fascinated because they had gone to Army Navy, Vancouver and bought the smelt kit. And it was the legal seven feet of that. A frying pan. I understand. You put this up. There's three pieces away it all ran down. But the counter like cam heat. You get the frying pan hot and then you put the netting around it years later out down in in English Bay WSOP hotel. And these two guys full Chinese guys come out of the bush and they set up their frying pan and go and they put in

Unknown Speaker 1:03:53
their kids beach fishermen they got lots of

Unknown Speaker 1:03:59
red blues. Please take all these tickets and put them on like a winner

Unknown Speaker 1:04:10
like the first time I fish smell the clothes. We got the neck. I figured well you only got seven feet. And I had on a t shirt and a pair of baggy pants. We're gonna try to pull this way back to you and you walk up the beach to your phone or your pockets

Speaker 2 1:04:33
Do you remember Joey? Was he gone before?

Unknown Speaker 1:04:37
Her stories about that place?

Unknown Speaker 1:04:40
Is cool enabled me to be able to they're

Unknown Speaker 1:04:45
able to go?

Unknown Speaker 1:04:49
What do you know about that story is disappearance

Unknown Speaker 1:04:52
very little. Now who didn't know that story. Walter Loxone knew all about it. But he would bring it He would tell it was quite a good murder mystery though

Unknown Speaker 1:05:04
yeah

Unknown Speaker 1:05:08
they never actually found bodies they found it

Speaker 1 1:05:14
easy do you remember native people ever camping over there staying there?

Unknown Speaker 1:05:19
You yeah in frequently though. I want my liver I remember what he said what I wanted

Unknown Speaker 1:05:31
to say that all the time

Unknown Speaker 1:05:34
he was looking at his body parts God you hear what my liver

Unknown Speaker 1:05:48
was scared the hell out of those Indians Redwood greener came back

Unknown Speaker 1:05:54
that will reserve remember when we got totally couldn't count there. And anyways the people that got the sign put up found out who owned which which group of Indians used that small little reserve? And it was the

Unknown Speaker 1:06:14
group Yeah, redwoods back watchin garbage.

Speaker 1 1:06:20
Not salad to come to because they're the ones that kind of taken control to now or the group at Salisbury contacted them without knowing that everybody else usually happens.

Speaker 2 1:06:34
So what was the story behind his murder? They thought he had more money or something?

Unknown Speaker 1:06:39
I don't know. Why did you use files money? No, I don't remember.

Speaker 1 1:06:51
We've seen pictures. There was a big long house there and in another sort of European style house that he lived in.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:56
And was that not? How was that related to Bobby? I don't know. That was Bob Bagans. Drama Johnny was Bobby humans. Jodi's wife was Bobby wins granny.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:19
Nicknames everybody has a nickname

Unknown Speaker 1:07:25
which means they will fish. So

Unknown Speaker 1:07:29
that would mean that that they were cut. Yeah, that would that would imply that they were Cowichan. Well, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:07:36
I remember my I kind of read Indian Uncle Fred. He married an Indian woman. And we're at his place visit and as a little kid and he broken his window. He had his own room which would have been in Devon sounds like it and he covered with with plywood. And they said Uncle Fred, how can we fix that window? We just went out there

Unknown Speaker 1:08:08
I didn't realize I was asking about who brags that I'd got sent to Cooper summer school. And I said it is a famous year coach coaches he says they used to be this is where we couldn't get along with we made it live on around

Unknown Speaker 1:08:33
you went to school on COBRA. You went to school on Cooper? Summer School. That was

Speaker 1 1:08:47
run by the church Catholic summer school

Unknown Speaker 1:08:53
there one summer. Our sister Ethel worked there one summer. Yeah. In the kitchen I think she was

Unknown Speaker 1:09:06
that was st graduate maybe I was just in the same joy

Unknown Speaker 1:09:15
you must remember the big Indian houses were down there were people living in them there

Unknown Speaker 1:09:24
was summertime news. There were people go live you weren't there any other time of year. Famous protection Ireland. It was really a big population. When

Unknown Speaker 1:09:48
we ran into a lot of clients. That farm now that watches need to go to a lawyer the defrocked Lawyer Go chambers man because that was a that was a real little townsite that was dumb always going on there. Tell me about that place

Unknown Speaker 1:10:08
what you know about it

Unknown Speaker 1:10:11
was just it was the gathering spot that's all it was. I don't know if anyone was like, it was like a lot of little babies. It was like a little resort a little GABAergic and it was always a different Wooper they're

Unknown Speaker 1:10:29
huge clam Bay. Tons of clams here.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:34
And other stuff that was harvested there as well. And of course, good fishing. Very dependable vision

Unknown Speaker 1:10:45
are we talking about more today?

Unknown Speaker 1:10:49
Is there a clamping? Yeah, yeah, but in

Unknown Speaker 1:10:53
the ditch through there, it was pretty stupid to start around there in the summer

Speaker 1 1:11:06
let's see. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's from the archaeology as soon as the Clampetts got established, you know 5000 years ago that's one of the big villages happened because people said hey, we don't have to do any go anywhere. That's the huge men that are built up over 5000 years steady supply

Unknown Speaker 1:11:26
rather the artifacts it turned up out of that downgraded COVID are that are the big magnet now unbelievable. discarded items. Like I remember that reserve it means grandpa and the fish camp in Monterey Bay cabins where somebody would save us out would be a giant wooden or not wooden stone dish when he came back usually when he got back yeah, they ignored it was still it was gone now. Great big somebody did Tony deals though. Parts mess. I mean, five or six pounders and

Unknown Speaker 1:12:25
Chris was saying there's one bad Catholic church across the road from Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:12:30
in there in the big rock. Yeah. You receive it. A little point down below the church. Yeah, yeah. It's just around people. Six of them at different spots in the super polished and smooth. Bob Aikman told me that that's where the ground berries and stuff have sort of a permanent feature that was owned by somebody and say, you know, Granny would just sit there people bring in the top guy. Just go. And then they scoop it up, put it on some sort of mats to draw.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:59
Yeah, that was cammish

Speaker 1 1:13:02
Yeah. That makes sense about the story you said and that's amazing that people were getting Camus then because they stopped doing that. And I think you got to work those Camus fields. You got to you got to work them like you know Yeah, burn. Yeah. I guess it didn't burn in Baghdad. If you'll do any kind of burning

Unknown Speaker 1:13:28
the bill fires up on the mountain all the time.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:30
You take his matches away from did you get burned things down? Mount reginal

Unknown Speaker 1:13:36
Oh, that was the maximal I was trying to think about?

Speaker 1 1:13:39
Yeah. Oh, one of the Mac tools. Oh, yeah. Cookie when

Unknown Speaker 1:13:43
you tried to steal a cookie. You tried to fill up the harbor for years by throwing rocks in it? Yeah, you shoulder the mountain where that open there and and build fires.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:57
He swallowed food and once ran away. But in front of Maxwell's house located there is a bottle rock sizes. Yeah. And when he ran out Iraqis that show people's firewood in the water gotta fill up. He will got mud for going in with a goddamn very angry it was pretty crazy, but maybe not.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:22
He lives on the old on Mexico property.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:25
Yeah. Did he live in that all the big greenhouse?

Speaker 1 1:14:28
That's gone now. That was down by just about the day. Yeah. His brother

Unknown Speaker 1:14:33
Dave. They both David took care of

Speaker 1 1:14:37
him. Right. So Dave is barber lingers, like dad or whoever it

Unknown Speaker 1:14:42
is that we can remember.

Speaker 1 1:14:46
I've never heard about this other guy. And he never talked about it.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:49
You talking about you're crazy because no one knew the new crazy game we would have everything else Texas Tech.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:01
Peter Holmes know him

Unknown Speaker 1:15:03
yeah man.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:04
He was building a fence along the top of the road on sticks. chicken wire fence this tall to eat the crab shack coming up on the beach. My brother my brother Eric is Tex you're pretty fucking crazy but you couldn't back water Frank is Mac don't see me that crazy

Unknown Speaker 1:15:31
did he have his my old money living there with him? Yes.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:34
Yeah the other way about it. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:37
Where's he from originally?

Unknown Speaker 1:15:40
That'd be granted. Yeah, okay, I don't know

Unknown Speaker 1:15:45
that's what he told us it was a grant from Cowboy route

Unknown Speaker 1:15:48
always insinuate that yeah Wow.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:53
Hey, Johnny to punch out and I want every dirty

Unknown Speaker 1:16:02
father wasn't his name Arthur. Old Man lazy was his name Arthur or jolly Lacey

Unknown Speaker 1:16:11
you might write something yeah

Unknown Speaker 1:16:15
and then every dolly Lacey and Harold or dolly Lacey because he's the one to intent on those ducks he walked along the beach in front two in front of our house and he was the first or second Bureau then he realized passengers boat was class

Speaker 1 1:16:42
she used to hunt deer law sorry I'm kind of interested in is this ban on rifles that occurred after that guy was shot you don't know and I know from some people who didn't attend to gave up hunting because they didn't feel safe anymore or may for the animals because they had used shotguns which are less accurate and I just went Do you remember that time and yeah and how it affected you and then the other people

Unknown Speaker 1:17:11
I know a lot of my friends stopped hunting them but I mean some of them were probably looking for excuse any

Unknown Speaker 1:17:22
shotguns we always thought Jacqueline for bridge and they're certainly shotguns suck guns are close Ranger was accurate his rifle and you don't get a long range shot in

Unknown Speaker 1:17:42
the jungle when having said that, we're I had to maybe find it the news that was the new way it was. Well no hope and Heligan there because you shouldn't do the jungle. But there are certainly we shouldn't be by race got to the point where there were vast areas where you shouldn't have a 20 Duel kill you'd have a while

Unknown Speaker 1:18:20
were paying for it now. The deer everywhere

Unknown Speaker 1:18:32
but even then, there's just when people hunted all nighters, lots of deer never ever find a deer. It's all

Unknown Speaker 1:18:45
they did. We had fallow deer in the COVID Valley, my part of the mountain and in our regular black female, everywhere else in Ghana and a couple of pet mules really regressor I remember they restaurant we had a movie with a red pen just orange red but stringers in here and they made it easier for the new guy to shoot. So it's big deer with ready I would have missed him but he had red stuff hanging

Unknown Speaker 1:19:20
over here coming over

Unknown Speaker 1:19:22
here when I was a kid no not didn't happen here

Unknown Speaker 1:19:32
just like the salmon they get their teen kids to go out every night to get some of that food coming to you. We have black bears out there every now and then and Cougar was more probably more prevalent than then now. As as Duncan should have grew up to be a town A

Unknown Speaker 1:20:05
quick territorial earmark more space so more than got displaced in that human development and we were an actual communist way they would and we had lots of sheep here and not a lot of people several times human lagoons coming through the Narrows, right in the womb grasses say well that's not well known They smell very

Speaker 2 1:20:38
back because I was struck. It was there was a dark down the point the housing King used to ride the ferry all the time.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:46
I ran over that dog I ran over that was the end of that No, ruin the front end of my dragon. I ran over his head he bent the tire to the front tire and read over his head and he gets up and he's still chasing me.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:02
Big Newfoundland was

Unknown Speaker 1:21:05
six golf

Speaker 2 1:21:07
and he got me get on the ferry ride across the Sydney sometimes he's gay a couple hours

Speaker 3 1:21:13
that's great. What about wolves? Hey we're here anything bowls?

Unknown Speaker 1:21:16
This was dark remember

Unknown Speaker 1:21:18
it was sold on somebody's porch on furnace road.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:24
Oh, he will extract the picture of him with it.

Speaker 2 1:21:28
Here's a picture of Mr. furnace with a some corpus dialect I think

Unknown Speaker 1:21:35
you went out on the porch in the morning and was sleeping in his dog story I

Unknown Speaker 1:21:44
will extract this black robe on January huh? And then you look at the picture of who she is which one as well as he was one scary look

Unknown Speaker 1:21:57
I think we remember

Unknown Speaker 1:22:04
of course you'd be up here he probably wouldn't hang out Don't fall for I mean used to be pretty separate the communities are

Speaker 2 1:22:14
the crown grants I was noticing the Willis Stark has had property Fulford

Unknown Speaker 1:22:19
Yeah, he did. Oh, wow. Interesting.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:24
Yeah, we're friends. Oh, yeah. He

Speaker 1 1:22:26
was a buck. I was. I've heard about him from Stan. Do you remember him? Yeah. Wow. No, I

Unknown Speaker 1:22:31
don't remember. Yeah, I remember hearing like he was just he might have been around when I was a little little good. You remember?

Unknown Speaker 1:22:43
Musician or something or? No,

Speaker 2 1:22:46
you got to play the trumpet. Yeah, blue taps everyday.

Speaker 1 1:22:51
Okay, then he moved over to my neck of the woods apparently lived where I live now. Walker suck. He used to he lived

Unknown Speaker 1:23:00
in Peru was there first before I moved there. Palau

Unknown Speaker 1:23:02
house. There's two of them there, one by water and one of them feel he lived there. And he used to walk up to Filter several times a week in your shoes. And we were living in that house that's now painted purple. It was away forever. But now it's football. And he used to coax us kids over to the fence and he would grab my arm and go. I'm not fat enough. Yeah. I became quite afraid of him. So he would bring apples and try to cope with us over me and my sister ETHEL. grabbed us

Speaker 2 1:23:42
up from the park. He lived in Kabul shores place which is a

Unknown Speaker 1:23:48
little dry there because it was all the way up to Lacey's pond. was little trails and benches in the

Unknown Speaker 1:23:59
park. Yes. And he had a spinning wheel thing. Yeah, all sorts of new guys. They made it look like a little park benches and what else was in there? There was a wheel that you could spin and it had made a noise. And he painted he painted some striping pools and just just odd stuff that you didn't expect to see in the

Speaker 1 1:24:31
car. Does that house still standing where you live? Yeah, no,

Unknown Speaker 1:24:35
no

Unknown Speaker 1:24:39
no, it was it was coming first house. It was coming shores house. What do you mean interesting lived? Oh, yeah. That he lived in that house. Oh, we before the shores. And that was originally one of the flowers which Palau was it Andrew? Up

Unknown Speaker 1:24:58
on the top? Yeah, John. Hello. Job, jobs. I don't know that that's where they said Now we'll come in

Unknown Speaker 1:25:08
between Jetsons house and what we call Ruby's house which is we'll call our house. This is apparently where we have right now kind of had a cabin. We've never been able to find any trace of

Speaker 2 1:25:19
it was Uncle Paul it told us that big cherry trees do their

Unknown Speaker 1:25:24
job every week.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:27
That cherry tree is not there. And you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:25:29
I remember when we cut it down

Unknown Speaker 1:25:36
they gave me a I got a chunk of that room and Greg gave you a burlesque scrawny Johnny great

Speaker 1 1:25:44
and this is on a seagull property. Is this on the seagull property today like the site that we're just talking about?

Unknown Speaker 1:25:50
It will Oh no, no, no. Jetsons rather down there. Okay. The Canadian wire rope company Bob Jepsen, he may he retired early retirement right now Mm hmm. He will be this offering and Walter fueled arrange to have Dad help them move stuff down verb result enrichment Yeah, cockney Englishman I remember my father Jane just but Saltspring needs another bloody remittances man and he became great boss and he had been sent here the logging industry gone over to wireline and the fat came from England the fund became from England to found their the Canadian wire rope company which was British wire Oh company's Canadian subsidiary in Vancouver they made wire for the industry

Speaker 1 1:27:08
have a huge business cables

Unknown Speaker 1:27:11
oh man Hobbs ended up

Unknown Speaker 1:27:18
Yeah, it was in the day it was was all brand new stuff. And then they when they got here, they realize how much how much demand there was logging changed completely as they were starting to build my real beard. And then the tobacco industry uses miles and miles of

Speaker 1 1:27:37
wire. Yeah. All the high lead logging stuff you know, there was a big steam logging operation where you guys grew up like back in 20s. You remember any signs of that? It was it was a big show that they had there. And I remember talking to Johnny Bennett. He said that we remain visible Flume. Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah. Do you think could you describe it for me first

Unknown Speaker 1:28:04
well, it was just just that it was what do you think it would look like a wooden trough digging around off water from it it was really a set of foods came out of the lake maxvill Namakkal my roots

Unknown Speaker 1:28:20
okay those little lakes at the

Unknown Speaker 1:28:22
top Yeah. And there was

Unknown Speaker 1:28:26
flew logging

Unknown Speaker 1:28:30
shepherds rock but by the time why remember it was the shape was here it was all Mosh and that was right you're touching

Speaker 1 1:28:41
and it came out one of those gullies which one are like

Unknown Speaker 1:28:47
well one came down to be quick I was getting mixed feel whether it's silver Lane

Unknown Speaker 1:28:57
comes down to Hamilton Beach. No No

Speaker 1 1:29:08
I said some creeks so it's out here somewhere. Oh, there

Unknown Speaker 1:29:17
are elevations there's a watercourse that comes

Unknown Speaker 1:29:24
from that side.

Unknown Speaker 1:29:30
Somewhere along in that area, there's a silver mined in a copper mine really, and watercourse comes down from the mountain road. It's the first part of a real steep it's like little waterfalls and then they want to still teach pretty steep down there but then they managed it off on these foods. So you can sideload them and yeah, that's probably it. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:29:57
you can see it from Yeah, that big, deep

Unknown Speaker 1:30:02
Couple oh it was less successful

Unknown Speaker 1:30:07
like this is a deep one here I thought that's where when you call anything around in here

Unknown Speaker 1:30:16
is a steep ravine and so

Unknown Speaker 1:30:19
on this is Isabel Point Road here read that one that's rollin and this is this is by Hamilton's when it comes out to do that

Speaker 1 1:30:37
really steep ravine beach yeah. Oh, that's okay. That's there's the beach. Okay, that's

Unknown Speaker 1:30:42
the other end. Yeah, right. Climbers down in there somewhere because there's a big

Unknown Speaker 1:30:51
pond right out there

Unknown Speaker 1:31:01
other one a question ran out by twice

Speaker 2 1:31:05
they would be like here's us here at Roland Rhodes. They've been here

Unknown Speaker 1:31:17
most of those little guys had some kind of vision which gets thrown into that one side of the desk rafting pond good money.

Speaker 2 1:31:32
What was that thing you had of the handwritten things about stocking fish? Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:37
Let's see. I haven't been able to find it yet.

Speaker 1 1:31:41
I would find it. Yeah, that was interesting. But do it on Saltspring. Right.

Speaker 2 1:31:47
Now you told me once on blacks island off of Portland, there was a marker there for Adam. It

Unknown Speaker 1:31:58
was three stones was was it before him.

Speaker 2 1:32:03
Retiring though. Now kind of had had one son that we knew of Adam, and he died very young, apparently drowned in the Fraser River. And they put a marker on that little island. It was read rate off Portland Island.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:18
If you look on a chart, it's called Brackman. The family always call it black sand.

Speaker 2 1:32:25
On the chart, it's brown. I'm gonna tell you that you weren't allowed to wander because no one had ever laid foot on that island. They want to keep pristine.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:31
They've given it to. They've given it to some society because it was an example of a golf item that was untouched by humanity.

Speaker 1 1:32:47
It was founded in the robber pavement. No,

Unknown Speaker 1:32:50
he was he was around the corner. Yeah. Okay. This has always been a part. Even when she was Princess Margaret, Oh, you went bridges Margaret. Where it was a park right when was it predicted piece of ground but it was Uncle Leo told me that when he showed me the stones it was a flat Portland stone flat with a drip holes. Yeah. One of them a two round stones. And out in the field where they grew strawberries

Unknown Speaker 1:33:31
must still be there

Unknown Speaker 1:33:32
for you would stick it up there. But it's been no cultivation, no no logging knew they cantaloupes and strawberries and easterlies by the bushel

Unknown Speaker 1:33:55
dropper drop off jump off

Unknown Speaker 1:34:00
Muse you knew that photo. They went there with my jean easterlies.

Speaker 1 1:34:12
So both of you guys went to the Isabel point school, right.

Unknown Speaker 1:34:15
Did you both go? No, I didn't. I

Unknown Speaker 1:34:17
don't know. I'm seven years older than John. Okay.

Speaker 1 1:34:20
You are the alumni. Yes. Miss

Unknown Speaker 1:34:24
Evelyn. I went. And they Alice. Mary house last year. They she was a neighbor down the road, same age as me. And cousin Steve was up the hill. He was origin same age as me. So we all went there. There was only I think eight kids. No, there was more because the tois was it was we're all they're all except Norman Norman. He didn't have it wasn't old enough to go to school until we Ganges had to catch the bus. Yeah, I went there to grade four.

Unknown Speaker 1:35:00
With one teacher Yeah, number two that was her

Unknown Speaker 1:35:03
the very first one. And it was a different one. By the time I left, the very first one was Miss Annie Ripley is an old maid. And she was like, Oh yeah, she or the house that she lived in, is still there. It's in that what we call Dogpatch Yeah, it's very oriented Dogpatch student she had a sign on a Ripley's roofs. She called it and her cat used to work at school with her every day. So it was about two miles I guess for her to go up it's a long long hill up Isabel Point Road. What do you know what school? Yeah. And she, I don't remember her leaving but by the time I left, we had a miss McDonald. I think her name was it. She drove over those little Austin's that had a 55 on the back and a skin started saying ass

Unknown Speaker 1:36:16
it had the little things on the side. Yeah, they're seen anything like that. Miss Miss McDonald.

Unknown Speaker 1:36:26
Okay, this is Miss Ripley was still there. Miss Ripley?

Unknown Speaker 1:36:31
She she was around she showed up

Unknown Speaker 1:36:33
at my wedding. No, she did. Because I remember her but I don't remember her teaching. She was in her night.

Unknown Speaker 1:36:41
So she was teaching me when I was up to about nine, nine I guess. When we had the close down, that's when I think was about 249 when they close those outlying schools

Unknown Speaker 1:36:59
at the same time, as far as I know.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:01
Yeah. And then there

Unknown Speaker 1:37:04
was cool clothes 1951 51 Well

Unknown Speaker 1:37:08
I went to that school just went to one school.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:12
There was supposed to be there for grade four, but I wasn't excellent. I hadn't repeat it. But it was okay with me because we were in a different school we were in get consolidated. Yeah. And I wasn't there because I spent that year on the boat with Mum and Dad Dad had a fish Packer the old l Fina. That thing rolled anyway and Ethel stayed with Granny and Grandpa there then whalers was their last name All right, Lloyd Edward Earl. Anyways, the we call them game grandpa but they weren't. Emma, his wife. She sort of raised mum to Mum was eight or nine, something like that. In Vancouver, I think she sent her back to me in Ireland to live with a couple of old Auntie's. I think I told you about that. They ran with now was called the Springwater. That when I was

Unknown Speaker 1:38:20
I had a minor eBay store in Michigan. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:38:23
And it was it was called the Grand View Lodge. And so there was a lot of a lot of work to be done there. Because they took in people had to take the guests fishing as when she caught that. That 66 pound Santa Ana handline Whoa. When they cook it said we're retired a salmon bring us in the car. So Mum was digging for her car. And she got an Indian bag. And she caught six pounds seven. Obviously the guests that she had taken with her much the pill because

Unknown Speaker 1:39:01
just to lift up.

Unknown Speaker 1:39:03
Dad, dad never did meet her. He biggest fish she ever caught on his commercial here was 61.

Unknown Speaker 1:39:17
I remember when we met at summer over there. Ted was the sort of the was the justice of the peace here. He

Unknown Speaker 1:39:29
ran the store again, and he was he was like the justice of peace. 100 Jager gardeners only died and it was in the police. The policeman RCMP Sydney in the boat museum Ganges so when they were going to be an ally point up Danzig and we bought your car so he got away say well, I don't think I'll take the convertible today. I'll get take the car he had a car and he had a tractor. There was no police. He drove his tractor to work. Okay. Okay, good verbal

Unknown Speaker 1:40:05
here. We were in the wild last.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:09
Wow. No cops. It's been awesome. We

Unknown Speaker 1:40:11
were here and they were on the boat right up in Ganges state.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:15
Pretty much yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:17
They

Speaker 2 1:40:18
did it commandeers someone's car if they need to do something they eventually had

Unknown Speaker 1:40:22
real tiny scars. But no, they just used to come into Ganges on the official mountain boat.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:30
We had one police guy here and one policeman and then three Mounties under ponderable George Lewis was chief on both Canada the guys Max alert was on he was on the RCMP Ganges in Sydney Landrieu I ended up owning one of those boats. I didn't want to sit near the Ganges

Unknown Speaker 1:41:05
Max alive made one of the girls.

Unknown Speaker 1:41:09
But he was Yeah. But he was somehow related. Henry Hmm.

Speaker 2 1:41:18
Well, that the large family goes way back in for trade history.

Speaker 1 1:41:22
Yeah, they've affection to you. I think Dhoni? Well, yeah,

Speaker 2 1:41:29
I don't know that line. Well, but I know they go back in there. Nursey Szilard was one of them

Speaker 1 1:41:34
first, to connect with them. There's a whole network of those for trade books. I've read some occasionally.

Unknown Speaker 1:41:43
Colin can just need a few of them. Because that's what we need you there.

Speaker 1 1:41:54
So is there thinking back to your Uncle Paul, do you see like a real iconic story that you would always tell or something that always stuck with you or think of some you would just sort of know that was a cumulative these kinds of stories, I guess, like you're saying, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:42:16
and and they didn't change they grew though. tell you more about it as he tries to illustrate and when he gets out your old let me tell you what really happened. Or

Speaker 1 1:42:34
what such a great story and Kate's already told us about it, that sort of rediscovery of the Hawaiian presence here. And him going back to Hawaii and that

Unknown Speaker 1:42:44
was on that trip. Oh, you were Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:42:47
What are you talking about that? How did you feel about that?

Unknown Speaker 1:42:51
Yeah, I I was in a tugboat in Sag Harbor on banks. I'm in the central Arctic. And I got a radio message that I had to come home. Uncle Paul needed me. That's all I got. Like, I shoot the worst.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:13
Guys, pull all the stops out to give me back. Talk and then, hey, we were in Edmonton. And I met him at the airport in Vancouver. I got out one plane went out to Ethel's place you didn't have it.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:33
And then you get changed clothes and I'm back on the plane. I ran away with it. Arctic mitad sleeve shirt and I was getting I was getting this valley. It was always a joke. One of us was this valley

Unknown Speaker 1:43:58
on vases, my wheelchair GP airline gauges, three ball wheelchairs on the plane and he didn't fit in his wheelchair running clothes. He's a big guy.

Unknown Speaker 1:44:19
Got a chair like maybe not even this wide wheels on Refresh chairs get him into wheelie in the back of the van sit in front of me.

Unknown Speaker 1:44:32
Because in the back maybe that's what a cargo lift was. So to get him out of there, I had to carry him above that seats.

Unknown Speaker 1:44:41
time he was he had wasted away to about 2030 pounds. It's all of the skills aboard. So I finally get him in a seat. I got a torn muscle and I got away and seems to be the other end To the cargo lift

Unknown Speaker 1:45:08
the door open and there's just hundreds of people that come meet me and when the plane played up very well on the press had his all his people milling around and he knew one guy in the back obviously had a few too many drinks. And I leaned on it. I bet that's one of ours.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:42
There I attended, I guess, or maybe more. We stated that at the holly Kalani, at the time was the only one story palapa on white. Remember the wavy hills on this side while I'm down there. So one story was just the coolest place

Unknown Speaker 1:46:07
that has big reception. And kick Aliki introduces Mr. Glass last night. He says he's Kike I know you're looking worse

Unknown Speaker 1:46:27
but I was I was an eye over there were people. Lots of people, lots of families here that knew they had a stray. And I met people who came to that event. Knowing that their family went somewhere else. And they went to Mexico they went to Russia they went to I met I met a half Estonian guy in Macau. If the boat went there they went. But Germany the families that came here their representatives showed up to some of them weren't very happy to see us because we were the Bishop Museum renice Bishop was still practicing. When Uncle Paul told her the story about God and good luck y'all go we'd heard it here. And she just like she couldn't believe that she heard the same story but it wasn't strictly talked about. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:47:52
Which begs the question, could you tell us that story? How was he killed? I mean, I've heard they

Unknown Speaker 1:48:01
they're just there this lovely Admiralty photo of some crazed Hawaiian about the stab gun and grew up with a nail pulled out of his ship. Kind of

Unknown Speaker 1:48:12
like putting nails into ships you can think of them on a rock there was a good

Unknown Speaker 1:48:21
little kid. My dad would give me a rock with that sizes just maybe only killcam he put red on it so they had culture throwing stones and they were traded with goose egg Yeah. I know you brag that you got really good at hidden way through it well the audios are written up over

Unknown Speaker 1:48:52
cutting temperature fires but it was at the mouth of the Valley of Kings Well, families children were raised in this valley. And you'd go in there and you get your hands off the kids. You didn't mess with well, families children I guess memo didn't get to the guys belowdecks issues so they kill them when they the only thing they sent back to the ship was hands in his balls. So I kind of tells you what he was doing. They pickle them in there, Randy and send it back. And it lands in England. Command who's competent competence changed the world. What a wonderful thing. But it's not got a minute Wow. That's a good one go inaugurated brick upon date hold on to the usual

Unknown Speaker 1:50:06
that's come up what is it?

Unknown Speaker 1:50:09
February I was in doing a job in Australia and Kevin good most yesterday

Unknown Speaker 1:50:28
I mentioned we're gonna have a wife who's gonna buy some cocktails

Unknown Speaker 1:50:36
so we'll get back in there why the Australia immediately deem it to be brick upon day electoral am I dealing with the right we've made T shirts

Unknown Speaker 1:51:04
yeah that list of things we look at any of that

Speaker 3 1:51:09
this is a you guys talked about that last week. John, do you remember anything about the petroglyphs in the harbor there?

Unknown Speaker 1:51:17
Where they were when? Well

Unknown Speaker 1:51:22
there's a very controversial Gordon Treadway this guy this guy just gave his Indians that sad oh by the way is logged on

Unknown Speaker 1:51:43
went to his driveway for a while and it's back in the park. And that was supposedly come back salmon pity with a salmon spawn. Someone tell you that, man. When he Bamberg again?

Unknown Speaker 1:52:09
Oh, the papen burgers. Yeah, you remember them. Tell me about tell us about that pattern burgers. What you remember?

Unknown Speaker 1:52:18
Well, we just it was just folks. Ronnie was a little bit all of us. Jerry was a teenager he's the one I knew best year.

Speaker 1 1:52:33
When they lived out here, they were everywhere. They live. Live from Connecticut. Originally. One of the ones they lived on this property, didn't they? You remember Yeah. Douglas prop and he was born there. Johnny Papenburg 4918 60s born and died there in 1960s died on the property and then it all fell out of their hands. We're talking to one of the descendants some you know sketchy business.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:01
Because they were they were also related to the Mrs.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:05
Kitchen was a patent.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:09
But out on the west coast of cactus What the hell's cactus? runs? It runs a fairy. Why?

Unknown Speaker 1:53:19
Oh, Eggers? Yeah, he really did.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:23
Well, man, and oh managers senior. Yeah. Karl. Karl Edgar's? Yeah. Where I met him, they call each other because oh, he was killer. And my old man knew him. Well, and. And then Uncle Fred and cactus. And Rick all knew each other from where his luggage and he maintained it. They were the families were related.

Speaker 1 1:53:54
Do you remember those old hamburgers? He lives here? Yeah. Yeah. Pretty old. Well die. They're almost 160

Unknown Speaker 1:54:07
I only knew of Arthur Patton burger

Unknown Speaker 1:54:10
was Yeah, I don't know which one I knew.

Speaker 2 1:54:14
Mother was Emma Purser. She married Patton burger. I can't remember. I have written down something. She made a patent for her and had Arthur and then she married Joe Downey and had Joe Jr. Arthur and Joe are half brothers. And in the census sometimes you'll see Arthur is enumerated as Arthur towny. Arthur patent burger well, but he didn't keep the patent burger name later in life. He's always Pat Parker. And then William Patton burger was married to kitchen. They had all the kitchens margaritas. Carl and Rick demise. The rest of my dinner I know Ronnie fatten burger but he was quite a bit older than Nisa. I didn't I didn't know him while

Speaker 1 1:55:05
I met him once. He was really interested in I don't, I don't think still around.

Unknown Speaker 1:55:12
He was big time and Loggins watching he was good.

Unknown Speaker 1:55:14
Oh really?

Unknown Speaker 1:55:15
Oh man, great climate tree. Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 1:55:18
I did see him do that one time he'd go up. We got the belt around. It's just a big toll spar and they go up it as fast as they can ring the bell and then come down and like he did in seconds.

Unknown Speaker 1:55:32
The champion at the time. peony, early 60s, early 60s, we got rid of a Danny sailor who was King a tree climbing and we had these trees set up to be needed. Craddock. No wasn't the plan. He was at the beginning to administer but it was for the end. The grocery is still at the top on it. So you had a solid drop off. And then you get up standing on the top. And Ronnie came in second, but he gets better.

Unknown Speaker 1:56:11
Dad has to do that. I

Unknown Speaker 1:56:13
like the high ring. I really hope I helped ring that tree for cabbage had

Unknown Speaker 1:56:20
the one that was still standing or I've

Unknown Speaker 1:56:23
heard it was the last time I did. There's weather below the mine. Weather. Oh,

Speaker 1 1:56:28
really? The one you were talking about earlier around the corner? Because I heard about that tree. Oh, no. I live next to Howard Horrell so I interviewed to talk to him about all that logging stuff. Great stories so

Unknown Speaker 1:56:38
the squeaky stream was up. And you've got the mountain road where the mountain road is we don't have it here

Unknown Speaker 1:56:50
No, he was over here.

Unknown Speaker 1:56:53
It was over here. No Yeah, but But history is that mountain road that's

Unknown Speaker 1:56:58
Oh do above us. What's that?

Unknown Speaker 1:57:04
That's Mountain Drive. Is it Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:57:07
this guy yeah. So good. He grew up there going out here it really didn't rain in that under really up in there. Were lightning struck a tree there's a tree that he covered around it and and it rigged Douglas fir and then there's rotate nitrogen there

Unknown Speaker 1:57:28
you go you know who owns this property? That would be a good thing too. Might be the highest

Unknown Speaker 1:57:40
I never could get up to that

Unknown Speaker 1:57:41
they never did find the roadside it was it was it was Duncan pepper confounded rotate.

Unknown Speaker 1:57:46
But this is on the same property

Unknown Speaker 1:57:49
is always perfect. Yeah, yeah. What did Duncan get for his average?

Unknown Speaker 1:57:57
bubkis

Speaker 1 1:58:00
that's still there. I guess it's Rhodonite the quarter Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:58:04
Molly's destroyed so much of it but yeah, it's still still there. And we've you wanted to get mixed even before confusion? Wondering she blasted version just he was a powder guy and he didn't want to do that. So anyway Steve to teach them how to even do that. So he taught himself here the whistleblower three times has been clouded Deschner blue did the aggregate but that tree steam reached he made donkeys lay up in his house and that would have been enough for you that I was on the other side move the belt that the bottom was too big for the guy to throw the belt on

Speaker 1 1:59:02
and so they use that to log a big circle in there yeah for and stuff. So what year would that have been? How long that was probably 10 o'clock or so. And I remember Howard saying is still rigged and he was telling me about it. We never got to see it

Unknown Speaker 1:59:27
Yeah, that's wonderful. Fell on here in there. They brought him over from James Island and they never met range much further than

Unknown Speaker 1:59:43
the track moving them on broke down on these Yellin so that'll go there and he stayed right in that lower barley, barley and Isabella point they're gone now.

Unknown Speaker 1:59:51
No really fallow deer and

Unknown Speaker 1:59:57
lots of them on game yeah But

Unknown Speaker 2:00:02
why did they bring them here?

Unknown Speaker 2:00:03
Anyone James? Literally they are they're still making dynamite there tonight. And the people rode around on bicycles. Because you've been in critical condition. And the deer were knocking guys off their bikes

Speaker 2 2:00:20
big Rachael morons like they're not like our deer. And these are all words like this and Paul needed

Speaker 1 2:00:28
really raised the benefit like aren't they farmed or well

Unknown Speaker 2:00:33
those ones were brought out as an experiment from just thought was Christiana stock that privately owned island but and yeah, a lot of country farms are valid here

Unknown Speaker 2:00:52
they become domestically they're wild here in Europe but here they were protected for the longest while and they were still raising wheat. Raindrops in the valley. So they sit around the cows got some pretty big animals but they got to the point where they were first of farmers are allowed to do that anyways, but it's a jungle Yeah, I know guys all your life you've never seen seen one

Unknown Speaker 2:01:31
where was the Wheatfield

Unknown Speaker 2:01:33
run a game it's all out there all along that stretch goes somebody ran in the bottom of Lee's Hill not I met them but the name escapes me they just bought it. Did you come off the bottom and they've not got a berm of dirt up there.

Unknown Speaker 2:01:47
Right a French guy

Unknown Speaker 2:01:50
using a Frenchman Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:01:52
I think he's building ponds and things in there. Right at the base of the hill. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 2:01:56
it was a Byron property who didn't know any of they were going to raise heritage grains market

Speaker 1 2:02:10
can grow a few of them and there I guess need a lot of gray land to get some bread

Unknown Speaker 2:02:18
of earth that's that's all about

Unknown Speaker 2:02:21
yeah but I didn't mean it I mean order slept on the inside

Speaker 1 2:02:27
I was looking at it from Mel Maxwell the other day and it's just looks like a huge Marsh like he's got two giant bonds in there and he's got some sneaky little river going through it it's really wet in there yeah. I don't know where he'll grow all the grains

Unknown Speaker 2:02:45
well I know they vagrants no Jeremy ditch rolling down the backhoe down the bottom of the mountain there to keep the fields dry enough to grow. We

Unknown Speaker 2:03:00
to the detriment along like the north side

Unknown Speaker 2:03:05
of Mount Rouge when there's a field in his road for geeks out here so he put ditches down there and join them up into the stream so yeah, wow. It was a huge amount of work. Huge amount of work.

Unknown Speaker 2:03:19
This is 12 members we don't have a map for Bruce

Speaker 1 2:03:24
but I know Yeah, I'm just thinking you the field just forget the basement there. And I've never bought told me there's a huge honkin rail fence in the woods there. Do you ever know hear about that or see it? Maybe it's gone? He said a win like you know from Fulford heart or over to Burgoyne or something. Cheap fence or something. It sounded massive just a bit. There's parts of it in the lives built by me.

Unknown Speaker 2:03:52
We went up there all the time. It goes Shahs very fine. Yeah. claymores pagan breakdance. Square, Benjamin there jives do they do with it hanky? They lived in the valley very Hanky Panky.

Unknown Speaker 2:04:27
I remember, Warren

Unknown Speaker 2:04:29
Warren's gonna go there as well. I know that was one fence line. There was one the back line of their property was dry when we came out. Yeah.

Speaker 3 2:04:44
You're saying that fence line ran across behind all those people's property.

Speaker 2 2:04:48
These are the properties here. So this is Tom This is Bruce Bergland das Fulford So Brandon long back the

Unknown Speaker 2:04:57
finished and ditched that Eventually, like I can remember looking at Grassfield acreage and see it like 10 validators got another and nobody was shooting

Unknown Speaker 2:05:13
how they dig that ditch back then

Unknown Speaker 2:05:15
Armstrong it's a drive down avoid value you'll you're still paying for it every day never completely dealt with that water it's under water under the road freezes

Speaker 1 2:05:38
let's turn so to that'll validate like I said I was looking at this guy's property it's just water on the ground

Unknown Speaker 2:05:45
further up there at pig reads what do you do that before you go to web this past where we turned up to Bernie Rodriguez

Unknown Speaker 2:06:02
the road always is done this for Howard Warren I used to race motorcycles longer and that was he remembers building the quarter a road there. Him and Raymond razor saw down trees laying down to build the road.

Speaker 1 2:06:19
That would still be there. underneath. Howard very well. I live right next door. He taught me a lot of stuff. So

Unknown Speaker 2:06:26
you grew up in it. My mother never forgave him for getting me interested in motorcycles.

Unknown Speaker 2:06:32
And then do you guys oh that hurt

Unknown Speaker 2:06:35
basketball game

Unknown Speaker 2:06:43
where she was Howard was gone Irwin. And I want to I just want another one in there. Jim Howard, when he was Gavin's and he had a BSA super battle 175 to cycle BSA motorcycle. And we go up the hill. And he'd write it down the hill across Bucha Lake Road. up the ramp out of the work off the diving board to 40 Jump out in the Lake District

Unknown Speaker 2:07:28
I was I had the Norton motorcycle dealership and Victoria and I need 67 about this particular bike. He he knew about a year before it was ever built. I got the second one in British Columbia. I read on the ferry and he's there now. He dropped me to get the ferry going forward. I had to go back to still talk to Eddie CAMI used to be the world's fastest, the fastest managed software and then you will be able to pour more time by being the fastest man. So 10 years go by he comes into my store and he buys a brand new Norton commando the next one up. Hey, he's laid to the very he's still married to whatever you're tired of the time. He's hanging on the back. Would you like he roars? It's quiet. He's raised with a very famous wrong. He says you're not but that's minutes. Takes

Unknown Speaker 2:08:43
crackup he write poems, relatable poems everywhere. I mean, this guy. You have any of them lying around? I have his cousin Sherry brought some do his memorial it just killed me. I must say I was he's got a collection of new

Speaker 1 2:09:01
Yeah, of course he would. Yeah. I went to school to show us another like archive subject orals. Interesting. And of course, he knew Chuck Steve's historian.

Speaker 3 2:09:15
We've got some other Yeah. Can you brought up some stuff? That when you said when he's Cavins, you know, the little little cabins that the old feel men lived in? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:09:30
We have the lady log, or she sounded like, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:09:33
Was it really any longer? What do you want?

Unknown Speaker 2:09:39
Yeah. Oh, you ever heard of the lady lager? Well, I've

Unknown Speaker 2:09:41
heard of that. Name. Yeah, I didn't I don't remember that. She was

Speaker 3 2:09:48
she used to have all those vocab and I think to me, it was because there was no place for all the top guys to go and a lot of them were bloggers. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:09:56
She put those guys they were all

Speaker 3 2:09:59
there. I was only kidding. In a row to think separate liberals, and all those old men visit on their own.

Unknown Speaker 2:10:07
There was a few of them. They got to end up drowning himself and Irish he told him, You better come and build his cabinet because if she didn't get them this week that he admitted he placed a little later on

Unknown Speaker 2:10:24
she was a character.

Unknown Speaker 2:10:26
Do you remember him? Patty Mike. Neither was named David was Bowden rubbish, have a bath. And he just turned about kind of wheel over to the ground. He'd be having a bath. And he gets to get back in well, he missed the boat was really tough. We know where we met. You got to sit in the government working forward. He's got his Norwegian clergy. And he's the one who is the one who's the team in time rather than gentleman always got his gentlemen. The wonders of diseases that never cease to amaze me. So basically, your role is basically going back to the pub that day.

Unknown Speaker 2:11:16
Does that same guy? Do you remember a big old sweet guy that used to live down the road? They're Big John. I think they called him. He was a lager. Occasionally he was one of one on when he's Catlins do down there. I just used to see him in town.

Speaker 2 2:11:43
mail from Lonnie I asked her about the moving road there and the church. She said she was asking she said Cecile Samson is going to send her back what she has, okay. Oh, great photos and such G rocks on next week. And then she had her neighbor's the recently retired highways manager and he says highways most likely didn't have permission to move. You'd have to ask people do you remember them? When they moved that road? And they said they moved the graves.

Unknown Speaker 2:12:18
You know, we're doing that right away Raymond. He might, he might,

Speaker 2 2:12:25
because there's always a scuttled, but that like they moved the rope but they really weren't supposed to. So if they just did it, sort of without knowing without permission, did they actually move the grades or do they just paid for them to move the headstone? Why?

Unknown Speaker 2:12:42
Graves? Winter Raman was the guy that was

Unknown Speaker 2:12:51
somebody must remember doing that.

Unknown Speaker 2:12:57
We know what year

Unknown Speaker 2:13:00
they Yeah, we have been twice

Unknown Speaker 2:13:04
I've been twice

Speaker 2 2:13:10
Well, she's she's sort of on it. moonridge and we're looking into it also they had talked to the police there now doctor, not doctor, Father Scott. He was going to look into ticks away. We're dragging him down.

Unknown Speaker 2:13:25
So it happened twice. So you remember the road being moved twice? No, Mike, this

Unknown Speaker 2:13:29
is something I'd heard I read only once in my recollection, but I continue to meet Granny's grade was on different spot. They moved me maybe it was upstairs. It seems

Speaker 2 2:13:39
to be it's moved. Also it used to be right outside you walked in the door there and now it's down farther. There's a whole different grade up there now. And they didn't move the church

Unknown Speaker 2:13:58
one of the days right bugs will start holding hands I remember the day the guys put it in stone. I remember his name. No.

Unknown Speaker 2:14:07
No, I don't remember the last

Unknown Speaker 2:14:09
okay. Yeah, they do stone guy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:14:14
Were people happy about that? I don't know. I remember when I first came here I was like, that's the Hawaiian shirts. I don't know the colorful stones. But it's just for the day. Let's do this. So they just put that over the original wage pictures don't

Unknown Speaker 2:14:36
like Kyle. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:14:39
It was clapboard

Unknown Speaker 2:14:42
a lot of that lumber. Came out of college and Banda tight. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:14:52
All Hands are involved in building that. They were your longshoreman. On college Ave. A pitcher would fill the water card up at the right time it would end up on board so they may do donations they dunnage between stacks of lumber were four by four or six by six Canva long posts well and he got kicked over the site and I could go exaggerate tide the end up before my grandpa's boathouse was built a six by sixes stack on a six inch wide wall Wow It was built like Lego bricks

Speaker 1 2:15:42
that's wildly good the steady supply but just coming in time there's some more I can remember that when

Unknown Speaker 2:15:47
I was a kid we had once a year we go once a week because you had enough six by six but it was clear number two a four isn't that was that tried to from hard to come by? So we get in his boat and we'd roll around golfing and collect whatever you collect off the beach and it was always ended with a boatload Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:16:11
You all were around

Speaker 1 2:16:15
looking for dimensional lumber looking for dimensional stuff?

Unknown Speaker 2:16:21
Yeah, we end up come back with you'd find a Boat Float and bring it back you sent a letter to the registration no that already sure the receiver RX they didn't claim the boat after six months or so is yours. I got a boat that way.

Unknown Speaker 2:16:39
Does it still work? Boats are over

Unknown Speaker 2:16:45
markers. But he's just used to really to station 18 foot Davidson when delightful to work stations when you're on air and you have to stand behind the wires and push through and see where you're going. And when you really got it together when I got big enough to Avila corridor payment budgets What was that one? Kind of I wasn't pushed hard enough of the toes on my side to compensate.

Unknown Speaker 2:17:18
And he's put a board across the guns and

Unknown Speaker 2:17:24
facing your back and you had to stand up you couldn't sit on it you couldn't sit down if you're rolling against the tide kind of really good. You'd go all the way around. We'd have it set up so we might sleep in the boat one night but you wouldn't do a beach camp and fish all around and she wouldn't you find

Unknown Speaker 2:17:50
how many days do you think you'd be doing?

Unknown Speaker 2:17:51
Oh would always take a week sometimes why?

Unknown Speaker 2:17:55
It was a beautiful ask guys as girls rolling in foot clinker

Unknown Speaker 2:18:04
that the one that blew all the caulking out of

Unknown Speaker 2:18:11
it wasn't that particularly when was it?

Unknown Speaker 2:18:12
No it wasn't no no no we'd you know it was reasonable to do it that Leo and Leo

Unknown Speaker 2:18:21
and one of the last phase spinners.

Unknown Speaker 2:18:26
James Allen has been gaining weight on the street. If you had already sat down to roll it up, he snapped. He goes down. He's right on the roof boom. We'll just open every seat and my grandpa was away. They bought his boat John put it back on. You had these couldn't be paused and went out in the water and an atrium over daven walking Dackel so we put a ramp down and hydrate you pull the boat on it and you pull Jane and so the boats sitting up out of the surf so they put it back up there Albert Ellis loading every game they tried to get cloudy I wanted to go and fix it neat you got

Unknown Speaker 2:19:26
to hear the big two in the middle today. Yeah

Speaker 2 2:19:31
is boats is Nandhini on the back little tea this boat was the big tube this is quite a

Unknown Speaker 2:19:40
fascinating guy couldn't read it right when he never spoke huh? Any design boat, any design any milk and then horse ankle is a knee that holds the transom to the bottom of the order. And because it's endgrain and nobody them they tend to ride out after your knees a little bit your every few years, you'd end up replacing someone's knees. And the best word to use was you would. So cloudy would have perfectly seasoned dry ones cut the shade hanging up in his building job. And you go and you take me one of those. You taught us how to sign. So you tell him you need one of those. He'd say three, they'll give three good ones. Three Greenlands I'll give you one good one. You're gonna get three like this when you get there and he takes it he hangs them under wraps under the mine. It gives you a piece and the next year he takes him under the bar and he puts him in the barn the third year hanging in the rafters before you can tell us season

Unknown Speaker 2:21:05
you was not easy to find you know

Speaker 2 2:21:08
there's one one in the corner violet cells

Unknown Speaker 2:21:12
yes

Speaker 1 2:21:16
I know there was a huge one up one of these galleys in your neighborhood that job we are those guys. They own this property. And it's I think it's the biggest you have ever seen. Yeah, straight right. It's about this diameter. And there's a big huge firm nearby there is some big trees in there yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:21:38
That giant you blow the fortunes on the way down to like what killed was down that draw on them that much. Reach down to us and there's some very good J trees in there. Maybe

Speaker 1 2:21:55
that's one of them. Yeah, exceptionally big.

Unknown Speaker 2:22:00
Yeah, most of all wouldn't get weird. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:22:03
Yeah, yeah. The one that violates federal

Speaker 1 2:22:07
down by us and Walker slick and there's some down on them. Bergling but yeah,

Unknown Speaker 2:22:11
they're just scraggly. Yeah, there's some

Unknown Speaker 2:22:15
of Canada's property to

Speaker 2 2:22:25
squeeze skis Rhodonite. Mine. Do you get to that by going up mountain road?

Unknown Speaker 2:22:31
Well, it's a big walk through from Crab Shack road. Yeah. Less a walkthrough from my Bucha.

Unknown Speaker 2:22:42
can drive in though. Well, you could

Unknown Speaker 2:22:45
actually lactones up there. There's a bunch of new paved road nearby. But yeah, it's no you'd be shocked to see, nobody used to go in there and have a look. They had a bush Road in there because they took it out of trucks. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:23:02
What if you could see anything on Google Maps? Probably a mom who

Speaker 2 2:23:09
pretty much told me and I picked up the mosquitoes at Musgrave road. We're gonna get Isabel point Musgrave, is the link up there and there's a new subdivision in there. And he says back down where the mind was, yeah, you might know. It's

Unknown Speaker 2:23:22
a 66 foot wide paved road runner. Yeah, crazy.

Speaker 1 2:23:25
Sky water development. I have an old map that shows where it is, to some self published thing that came out in the 60s, DC gem guide or something? It's got this how to get to that quarry, at least in the 60s Shouldn't take data. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:23:48
It was really well thought out war from the day it was.

Speaker 1 2:23:51
Yeah. Well, Howard. I remember Howard. He kept it hidden. He knew that all things and so when it played he moved out of the property and Fulford we got to go down and get help clean it out. So a lot of cool stuff. You're gonna get a big springboard and sawblades and just to help clean up ladies in mind. And oh, yeah, tons Rhodonite busted up that my kids were really into it. gave it to them. We still have it. You know, it was all nice pieces, like buckets of them.

Unknown Speaker 2:24:25
So there was a market for it. And then there wasn't,

Unknown Speaker 2:24:27
I guess. Yeah, I guess somebody Yeah, I don't know.

Unknown Speaker 2:24:32
RoadMate jewelry every now and then.

Speaker 1 2:24:35
Store. Yeah, yeah, that's what I heard. They must have tumbled it or something and they

Speaker 2 2:24:39
was looking good. Yeah. Sounds interesting to go in there. Pick up a piece off the ground. Do it. My hip is ready. For that tree that still reduce that

Speaker 1 2:24:59
would be super cool that's funny I remember her telling me that that tree

Unknown Speaker 2:25:03
around where you're talking about where the silver and copper mines were around this general area and yeah

Unknown Speaker 2:25:08
that makes feel

Speaker 1 2:25:14
a giant wave you go way up here and then down or how would you get to that?

Unknown Speaker 2:25:17
Tree?

Speaker 1 2:25:19
Yeah, no this yeah either this visibility road

Unknown Speaker 2:25:25
that's it these are two different minds this was copper and silver donor okay and then down the road one of them petered out one of them filled up

Speaker 2 2:25:33
which is the crown grants mentioned something about the mind. Didn't they feel

Speaker 1 2:25:38
that? They feel within? Yes, today it was a day I think so. Yeah, it was a steep thing. I never seen it. Yeah, I heard about that.

Unknown Speaker 2:25:47
These are actually Tuggle might make serious like like a real like movies in the mind mind movies. But the Rhodonite man was just an open quarry. Yeah,

Speaker 3 2:25:58
these were obviously producing they were getting stuff out of it if

Unknown Speaker 2:26:01
one time

Unknown Speaker 2:26:05
maybe there's gold in there.

Speaker 1 2:26:08
Supposedly the Hamilton book talks about gold found here in the air and the island maybe just in glacial deposits for liquids they had that mine out it ruckle some mind that they actually tried to clear it was quartz with gold some gold and yeah they didn't pay what's you know not enough you've heard that Goldmine reco Park Oh yeah, it's gonna be held some book that's something it'd be kind of interesting to look at the site and still be there with the old Cropper currently took out some more there and had it assayed or

Unknown Speaker 2:26:49
what when your cape couple where there is a random quartz That was why does that paper Whoa, no black just rock really? Guys are worried aware that in several places trying to look at the poll showed that they're not. So

Speaker 1 2:27:05
this be around this way? Yeah, mass the

Unknown Speaker 2:27:08
the point. Remember that watercourse, we saw that big watercourse coming out of the middle Oh,

Unknown Speaker 2:27:13
yeah, down there.

Unknown Speaker 2:27:13
Yeah, just in that

Speaker 1 2:27:15
stream. Oh, okay. This way Yeah. Right in there that he was at quartzite think Yeah. Oh, I'm gonna check that out. So it'd be right at the end of the road. And then it's

Speaker 2 2:27:25
that road goes a long way now used to go just down to the lumley's and just the little

Unknown Speaker 2:27:29
ya know, you could go away now I've

Speaker 1 2:27:32
never been there. I've never been here 30 years I've never been to that part yet but it's too big to be super far this is

Speaker 2 2:27:48
this is the lumley's in here. And they were down they were way over here. The end of the road I remember that was as far as I remember. I remember going Yeah, I think they were at the end of the road. And Mick fields is like from here right this blank space well, this is this is the Isabel Point Road and here it comes down. This is lovely place right here.

Unknown Speaker 2:28:12
And here there. Okay

Speaker 1 2:28:18
that's all that's all. You just need some kind of stock map. Yeah, I know. stuff on it.

Unknown Speaker 2:28:24
To get to you to do this.

Unknown Speaker 2:28:25
Yeah. Have you ever gave me a map? WaterShed map streams? Only woman hits heads to me.

Unknown Speaker 2:28:34
Yeah. Can you think about those waterways?

Speaker 2 2:28:37
Why was it called mix Ville? Because there

Unknown Speaker 2:28:45
was it mix somebody or somebody were there MC

Unknown Speaker 2:28:49
I know it's always been called mixed with Ed girl.

Unknown Speaker 2:28:53
Or, you know, shepherds rock was riddled with gravity.

Speaker 1 2:29:02
We were wondering about Jackson rock, any idea where that name came from?

Unknown Speaker 2:29:05
Yeah, I tried that straight with

Speaker 2 2:29:10
a crown Gratz had a Jackson also. Some guy that went up again to I don't know who is still. Maybe straight

Unknown Speaker 2:29:19
there somewhere.

Unknown Speaker 2:29:21
Rockin Jackson. Jackson's beach. Probably had

Speaker 2 2:29:25
that piece of property at one time. Jackson Leach. Who was this guy? Allegedly named Jackson. Jackson rock Jackson beach. well researched he was another remittance man.

Speaker 2 2:29:51
Um, yeah, that's just the natural state right now.

Speaker 1 2:29:56
You're gonna send us those names because I looked up those names there. Call Camino one of them. Definitely. I would call them that you get the baptism things. No, no, I'm going back to the name. So we were talking about last time. Like for not names. Sorry, words. Words. Yeah, chinook and

Speaker 2 2:30:13
all that stuff getting the dictionary. Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:30:18
That was very interesting, because some of these are coming to me. Like they're not snug. So that's kind of interesting. Yeah, oh, yeah, I know. There's some specific origins like snuck in the Columbia River and that's in there. But the words of your family were using some of them or say wish they were hope Kameena like not strictly snug. We should look at sort of a vocabulary 500 words or so. And the blog czar for sure.

Speaker 2 2:30:50
That one I tried to copy this to send to you, but it wouldn't copy correctly. So I have to wait till I get home. I was gonna find around everybody.

Unknown Speaker 2:31:03
Has to reimburse you.

Speaker 1 2:31:05
Okay. You should be like a collection point. can send you all those Crowder, I think we need to organize all those. For sure. The original documents. And, and this maps Great. Make a cool map like this. With all the dates, if you could to just get the chronology of occupation from this first guy, this cave, a guy wherever he was PV and then your ancestor told the other people Yeah,

Speaker 2 2:31:34
I think it was the the timeline Saltspring archives maybe timeline? Yeah, it's

Speaker 1 2:31:40
for Charles's book, but it'd be on that page is still active. Isn't it? Carco site? Yeah, so it's gotta be in there. Because I

Speaker 2 2:31:49
saw that it was like he preempted it in like 1860s or something. The earliest one wait before our guys chiave he was the first Hawaiian to preempt land here.

Speaker 1 2:32:00
And he died and his wife and I'm remembering the story. He died and his wife who was native marry the song and this guy. They had a kid and that's what the this lawsuit or whatever court action was about. Trying to get the land back for this kid. But by then it had shifted.

Speaker 2 2:32:18
Oh, so he preempted it. Mastery died. They didn't do anything with it.

Speaker 1 2:32:22
Yeah, left. And like the old story. Someone else's comes along and okay, you just take it. And what you're saying earlier about people logging I've heard that too. You get the print the land log a big chunk of it. Well done with this. Just kind of walk away basically,

Unknown Speaker 2:32:38
they get the money from Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 2:32:40
whereas the guys did that didn't really defaulted on the mortgage. There was the odd guy that Gordon Godwin was a wizard picking the property that was what he got. Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:32:52
Yeah. Early developer at Pickens and you know the cat the equipment you need every second person well, they had

Unknown Speaker 2:33:07
some pretty good size gypo logarithms offering

Unknown Speaker 2:33:12
so they call it Chipo login.

Unknown Speaker 2:33:14
Do you remember any particular

Unknown Speaker 2:33:20
20 odd years ago I bought a boat of Jack Monroe and he remember coming to this offering I rarely ever leaving. So you get this off. Trade Union organized amongst all these shippers they get in brackets and a couple of weeks late but the documentary and logging Minister

Unknown Speaker 2:33:43
Cooper's use oh yeah

Unknown Speaker 2:33:54
using the drinking business while he was a lager he was a boom Manvir Okay, okay, it wasn't a lager okay

Speaker 1 2:34:03
so for a while like when you were young logging was pretty active. I mean, you'd see blog booms all the time I remember the one in Ganges mature in the 80s it was still happening and of course the lens down and Bergling Johnny better I wish the ice to hang on to him and talk with him and when he said he knew every logged up on the island I guess he never wrote down or anything like that tiny interview

Unknown Speaker 2:34:27
razor when he was working preparing for the Gulf of Georgia navigation. Before it was easy varies. Who's gone very private very go into school and boomin lives at night. Wow

Speaker 3 2:34:44
That's smart. Was it brothers or something? Trio are try that's become the case but the some words logging. Three guys can't remember their names now.

Unknown Speaker 2:35:00
probably did all right back in those days

Unknown Speaker 2:35:06
I can remember logging here for a while when they wanted to well drilling

Unknown Speaker 2:35:15
while a Bradley's what else? Well,

Speaker 1 2:35:18
speaking of quidel Armand was born Amalia, somebody, an old time got I can't remember his name is Jed. No, he's no longer lived here. He's from Sook and he told me about an old donkey engine and Quenelle us. It's still up in the bush. Did you hear that are seeing it? It'd be up. Somewhere up in here on the Musgraves side, and on the south side.

Unknown Speaker 2:35:44
Well, that tree that we talked about all industry ridicu engine was there. Maybe that's when I was a kid. Because I remember Laurie, who's got a v 12. sandbagging. That'd be a great gunman was terrible. They took off an old flathead Marley and put on his 12 cylinder burned a bunch of guys didn't pull it was terrible. He then related which was we put the old boy back on.

Speaker 1 2:36:16
Yeah, interesting to go look at that. I remember Laurie to is working Howard's mill. As I did, I worked with Milton haywire up with that was hey, where do you use it to fix things like car and just? Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:36:43
tailpipes. Good stuff. is still around. Even Saskatchewan.

Speaker 1 2:36:49
Yeah, East. Swing was too too crazy for him. So he figured out

Unknown Speaker 2:36:57
why he wasn't the Ranulf

Unknown Speaker 2:37:01
I'd be so nice. That

Speaker 2 2:37:03
was the settle but those Well, yeah, little canoodling going on there is definitely no, because you look just like his dad. Just like

Unknown Speaker 2:37:19
there was promised. And was it rentals, too? So what

Unknown Speaker 2:37:32
else are we doing?

Unknown Speaker 2:37:37
Randy Richie very CAMI the other day. I was asking about Parker O'Connell. Ever here what happened to Parker where he went? No, I

Unknown Speaker 2:37:46
don't. He was going to school with us. But he didn't graduate. The Okeanos were came here from Mina Parker account. My

Speaker 1 2:37:58
buddy lives in their house. Sharp kind of house still there. No, I don't know. Mrs. Reagan. She's, yeah, yeah. Yeah, she was the okay. No.

Unknown Speaker 2:38:17
Yeah. Wicker, wicker. Oh, god. Oh. Yeah. Nice.

Unknown Speaker 2:38:29
I didn't know if it was in any relation between your counties on the O'Connell's? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I think yeah, I

Speaker 1 2:38:37
think there's an account. And yeah, I was talking to rose about it. She will go to that house because they were living there. Apparently, when they got taken off, or her dad. Yeah, that's an awful story. He was just recovering from appendicitis or something. The police were pretty rough.

Unknown Speaker 2:38:56
What do you accomplish at the greenhouse?

Speaker 1 2:38:59
Yeah. Oh, my God, he's property everywhere you dig? You find the glass?

Unknown Speaker 2:39:05
Well, Victor was a great customer of mine. I've known all his later life. Yeah, we spent more than a day or two in there. poking around. He made some history about rainstorms and hybridizes one of his greenhouses floated away.

Speaker 3 2:39:28
Yes, John, you know, what really might like to talk to you if you haven't talked to him yet? Is Brian Smallshaw?

Unknown Speaker 2:39:35
Oh, no, I have. I haven't, but I know Michelle knows him.

Speaker 3 2:39:40
Yeah, he probably really liked to hear what you have to say. No, and Victor.

Speaker 1 2:39:45
He did. Yeah, he's probably I know Brian. Well, and he just did a really good history of all the Japanese dispossession on the island. And it's really good because he shows the actual properties that help them do this. So you got to do that. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great studied as his master's, I think he actually is. There's an article published in BC studies. Got his book. And he does. Oh, cool.

Speaker 3 2:40:12
But would you mind if I don't get older, you know, because he we just had a lunch thing A while ago, and he Don Cunningham was there and start talking about, you know, memories with everybody. And everybody was he's talked to Bob, of course, Bob rush. Oh, yeah. But Don's info is new to him, too. Yeah. You get enough cross stories. It's

Speaker 1 2:40:34
Oh, yeah. You should also talked to Stan Harris and remembers stories about that was actually mostly in Langley, but I think he

Unknown Speaker 2:40:42
started cross over there too, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:40:45
Or not Langley, Delta. Plaza. Well, I don't have anything else to show. Me got really good stuff. Stuff about the cloudguard that gold. I go to a conference next year, we're going to do some conference on clam gardens. And they tend to tend to centralize that these are 1000s years old. And, you know, they don't realize it was silly, had meaning to living people today and had multi purposes. You know, they weren't just this one off thing. It's funny. I've talked to people who haven't been to restore the clam garden, people know, the Saanich kids aren't going to drop hop in a boat and come way out there to do clams. I mean, it'd be awesome. If they

Unknown Speaker 2:41:31
did. It was easy. You just pile up a bunch of rocks.

Unknown Speaker 2:41:36
But build it and then you got me again. And the huge thing and when and we're gonna but just you put those rocks really? They're not like prairie rocks from payrexx day we put up here. Think it's grayed out because they

Speaker 1 2:41:53
haven't been down there. But apparently they've tidied it up made it look kind of nice, sir. Then when I remembered it,

Unknown Speaker 2:41:58
I remember sitting with a

Unknown Speaker 2:42:07
little bit, Doug last year, who was sitting there waiting to take them he says I wonder how many broken legs it took to build ground over the rock Garyun rocks.

Speaker 2 2:42:20
Well, as I was mentioning, the last time we talked about it, it's I'm getting used to calling in the clam garden because that's what people are saying. Well that's what it is. Yeah, we always call it a contract. Yeah. trout

Unknown Speaker 2:42:34
fish ponds. Yes.

Speaker 1 2:42:36
And so it made us here you know, it's pretty when there were so many fish in the ocean it was just a no brainer, you know, probably tied to build something is a coolant over by a mallet you down on the beach. Big huge round. intertidal that's, yeah, that's really good. The cod chop, Stan, actually, when I was interviewing Stan Harris, he referred to it as a clam farm. He said he just brought it up out of the boot as a black clam farm. Like what they call clam gardens. You've never heard of that. But you guys called the cod trap. That is so cool. Because they're multi purposes.

Unknown Speaker 2:43:21
They weren't really single purpose. Really? Oh, and

Unknown Speaker 2:43:23
then Anyway, okay, that's even better.

Unknown Speaker 2:43:27
If you needed a few acres of clams, we had to do that. But when you didn't need them, which at balance, trying to figure it out, you could do something else.

Speaker 1 2:43:36
You put it really well actually, when he explained it before, it was beautiful, just that transition. And it's exactly what the clam gardens are all about. Because we're huge populations here. They ramped up the resources but you know, artificially raising the level of beach and whatnot.

Unknown Speaker 2:43:52
I mean, you can still you can still get out use it today and get a feed of abalone, abalone

Speaker 1 2:44:02
scallops, scallops, rocks, but yeah, I mean, anywhere on a beach. You can get a few to clams if you want, you know, you have to go to that spot.

Unknown Speaker 2:44:08
But there's a lot better spots because right now you do and there's rock. Yeah, where it looks like there's no rock.

Speaker 1 2:44:17
Yeah, I gotta go down to see what they've been doing. Because the last picture I saw was pretty paid, like, orderly looking. Meaning.

Unknown Speaker 2:44:25
Who's doing this is archaeologists

Speaker 1 2:44:27
in Saanich. It's just some Yeah, so they got some funding. And so you've been doing some archaeological work there. Even including some diving off of the Seaside Park down so they determined is pretty old. You know, and, of course been used over time. And yeah, it'd be tiny tidying it up. I think, you know, like I said, to restore it or the future. You know, Saanich children can come here and declare

Speaker 3 2:44:52
same group that's going over to Russell or Yeah, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 2:44:56
I met those guys. Small

Unknown Speaker 2:44:58
gardener Russell. Yeah. Within three

Speaker 1 2:45:02
stanza there's one a couple that he remembers. Yeah, you remember that one? Yeah. And my archaeology buddy Eric McClay with several community groups he's identified about six around the island different spots is wondering Walker's hook

Unknown Speaker 2:45:19
the ones that Russell Islander can define

Unknown Speaker 2:45:25
really similar to the fall for one like a fish trap you

Unknown Speaker 2:45:27
kind of think about idea except race was just more of a terrace it's like terrace boundary to the really Gomorrah which is because that's what a strip club Beach was was one of those little terraces

Unknown Speaker 2:45:45
Yeah, I was thinking that one day I forget whether you wish you would. Archaeologists wrote?

Unknown Speaker 2:45:52
Yeah. Ubik Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:45:57
You're working with Saanich

Unknown Speaker 2:46:02
I just had to be wrangled with your audiologist trying to get permits to build the public movies there's a restaurant Marina the marina in dealing with the archaeology, archaeological firming hired was golden and he brought me this information about this website did just open in the shards found the underwater Yeah, really? Yeah. And I really credit since it can used to work for us now the senior archaeologist Clinton Mackay. I know Quinton He's a strange kid. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 2:46:48
it's so strange.

Unknown Speaker 2:46:53
He was used to watch butchery really focused on courteous point in Sydney. Yeah. I was around the corner. And we were the only website in British Columbia at the time. I agreed it was built on a mid every night would randomly another goddamn cedar bath gets taken out. I think we have to come to a halt. Guys only the negative. And Quinton just it was fascinating. He come to work done the whole day watching me but I want to help me find an underwater well

Speaker 1 2:47:30
it just somebody found it. They just these things reveal themselves and then they work on. We probably haven't here on the island I'm sure I'm sure Walker's beaches wet say maybe unfiltered. Well,

Unknown Speaker 2:47:44
not a declared website. Yeah, no, no. What is a website? Water anaerobic conditions already number one is hydroseal gel. That's registered site. Yeah. There actually be two with swimming pool wind grafts

Speaker 1 2:48:14
is a cloud, I guess. Did they do any archaeological impact stuff in

Unknown Speaker 2:48:20
artifacts? So my graphic I'm gonna pick out what do you want?

Speaker 1 2:48:25
Yeah, that's a huge site. There's actually a big bear rumor mound right in front of the old hotel. I got the story where they leveled it for the tennis courts. But as they're redoing it, they recovered like body after body with all the, the, you know, the burial items until they covered about 12 and they were just you know, and then this is a woman who's staying at the harbor house and she was a Roman Catholic woman very proud she ain't running a start up and made them stop made them collect every body with all of the burial items and buried them remove them and put them in a rose garden in the old garden at Harbor house where they still are. We haven't identified the site but it's in there.

Unknown Speaker 2:49:09
I know there was a similar burial Karen under the movies Yeah, mood after that.

Unknown Speaker 2:49:19
There's a lot of burials around there.

Speaker 3 2:49:20
Mrs. Croft in depth you know the what when they started the hotel that she was taking wheelbarrow loads of bombs over the ocean. Oh, yeah. down as they were building

Unknown Speaker 2:49:33
their work down there and pump and pump seawater up to the seawater swimming pool. And we would put that line in and all that stuff that came out went down well, what they didn't harvest

Unknown Speaker 2:49:51
know it's a huge site. Go on

Unknown Speaker 2:49:58
there, since I've left them Friday, they decided to change how they're going to lay something out. So I needed another archaeologist approval. I'm digging a hole, it's got to be about 20 feet long. The fee is $35,000 drug approval, not illegal. And that's if they don't find anything, and they're going to find some. No.

Speaker 1 2:50:21
It's such a rip off, check and even bid on that time, but yeah, a few hours, sort of my field director, so I won't even get into it. It's so political. You know, the native bands are involved. And you actually got booted off some project because the native guys had their own guy who wanted it in there. And I was I was, I was very cheap. I mean, I'm not. And if this other outfit, just gouge them, and they didn't find anything. I had identified some what they thought were burial carrots, you know, they kind of look like them. But it wasn't serious. It could be could be. So they hired this other firm. They came in and said, yes, these are carrots, and they had a big excavation to dig him out. There was nothing, they weren't. The story hasn't come anywhere.

Unknown Speaker 2:51:06
I know the story. I waited through a few archaeological firms who would not but guide with the college and Matt, you do that? We don't want to have any of you.

Speaker 1 2:51:16
Oh, yeah. And Golder, you know, doing on the grid outfit. Actually. I know the work they did down at some harbor house and like, I've worked there. And we've, we've dug right to the bottom of that myth. And we know what that site is, and they consistently get it wrong. They think that the site's been destroyed. They claim the site's not there. And it's, they'll get a lot of money. I don't think they do good work. And also when they after they did their work in the harbor, like they had some divers going in. And they found some old air conditioning unit.

Unknown Speaker 2:51:55
Recently, yeah. My job. Yeah. Must have

Speaker 1 2:51:57
been Yeah, it was definitely yours. And so after they finished and gone, the dredge went back to work. And my buddies, you know, I'm Dave McCallum girl. Yeah. mackeral. So I've done some work for him, just, you know, helping him with doing Plymouth a field reconnaissance. We just kind of somebody wants to build a dock. You know, is there a site there? And I go, No, oh, yeah, huge site, stay away. Just thought the owners know so they can make a decision. But anyway, so the, the dredging there, and also in the big of a big huge pile of dirt. And there's a whole row of fish steaks, like from a fish trap in it to scold or admist but that was dumped in the barge but actually have the sticks. So Dave salvage them for me. And I've got them and about four or five of them there cedar that kind of shrunk and desiccated a bit, they can still see where the ends were carved with a stone tool, not with a steel tool, like the hands are shaped with stone tools. But older myths that was right at the mouth of that little creek that comes into the harbor. They're just outside of that. And I guess the the fish we're whatever was his trap was covered and silt from this little creek. And gold. He didn't even notice it. But that's typical little

Unknown Speaker 2:53:12
creek. Yeah, there's

Unknown Speaker 2:53:13
some flow

Unknown Speaker 2:53:14
of water the flow of water between movies

Unknown Speaker 2:53:18
and hastening. Yeah, well.

Unknown Speaker 2:53:21
Oh, but it's further out that

Speaker 1 2:53:23
they found it. Like way out off the point. Yes, I wouldn't. I'm not sure actually where they dug it up. But it was in in that area. But there was no dredging there. Okay, let's understand

Unknown Speaker 2:53:35
why they did rich. I know I did a sample where 10 years ago and found a lot of asbestos brake lighting. People coming down that hill, because they haven't used it for 30 years or 40

Speaker 1 2:53:53
years. And a little deposit of PCVs. I never found that. No. That over it was over towards the I guess candy side?

Unknown Speaker 2:54:03
Yeah. I think they made a mistake. It's not there. The pH? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 2:54:08
I found okay. That's no, they

Unknown Speaker 2:54:10
said it was PCB. They showed us they show but they're wrong. Okay. quite convinced Iran. We're going to come from first they said here you have three times the legal amount of cadmium. I don't know who said the legal amount. It was the US Department of Interior and they did the research and the Mississippi River. Refer to Jesus, just stupid.

Speaker 3 2:54:42
But they're still judging, are they you're still you're still gonna be dredging other spots? Because they know that they're right. You were saying there's still some to happen or?

Unknown Speaker 2:54:52
No, they're finished the dredge. They've got to they've got to finish to read it now. Oh, by the way, I designed in a pump out station. And I was gonna bring it up to the top of the wife. And I had surely a second grader we're gonna dig up to run it over and put it into the drain the sewage woke up at movies. Somebody said, Oh, no, we should, we should hook up with this building over here. So they gotta dig right across the middle now. Get any expense 35 feet. This, this one's approved. We gotta dig into it.

Unknown Speaker 2:55:36
Exactly. Where's this trench gonna go?

Unknown Speaker 2:55:38
It's gonna go from the top of the wharf to the back of the harbor, getting to the front of the building. And, yeah, the expenses aside, we're gonna find that out before our next show. I don't know how many bodies I know of already. Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:56:00
Well, there's the one I know about the one you because I can I can access all the reports. And I've looked at them over the years. Yeah. And that one's on there. The one that was found, like way back and and when they were winding the road, there. They are. Lots of bodies, and they're not far beneath the surface. Pretty amazing. Like, you know, that deep, that full fledged skeleton yet 1500 years old. You know, covered, you know, flex covered with slat slabs of sandstone. Fewer people lived here for 5000 years.

Speaker 3 2:56:43
Okay, I'm gonna go through the rest of these notes. Kate, and I'll, I'll update it. I'll get back to you.

Speaker 1 2:56:50
So he's got to transcribe all his interviews, because some volunteers should go get a fleet of young type. Yeah, I mean, it's, there's some, they have to do it. Because I don't want to Well, I mean, I love transcribing. But it's takes so long because I capture every word, because I've done lots of transcriptions, interviews of native elders, and some of it's so critical. You play some back just to get What were they saying? They're nuts. But it's a real process. No art actually.

Speaker 3 2:57:19
Well, there's companies that will do transcript. They're not going to they're not even going to know the new. No. You guys. Yeah. So

Speaker 1 2:57:28
I'm looking at the software. I don't know how useful it be though. Apparently, you can get software to transcribe voice.

Unknown Speaker 2:57:39
large majority. Listen to a bag and go.

Speaker 1 2:57:44
So, yeah, what was my task? You think? So yeah, we're gonna do this ethnographic map. So we need a chronology map. So all of those crown grads and you should do field trip. We made a bunch of us to do that and go photograph these places.

Unknown Speaker 2:58:01
You want to come along on that ride again.

Speaker 1 2:58:07
Now, that's probably the better time because there's less fully as you can see things

Speaker 3 2:58:12
well, you know, remember I said What y'all so get in touch with your family? Oh, great. I'll see if she's still come. That's very that's not that far away. Like towards the end. Yeah. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 2:58:26
she's from the US. No, they're, they're the valleys. Oh, lovely.

Speaker 1 2:58:34
Related to Stan or the other lovelies.

Speaker 2 2:58:40
Well, stands stands. Mother was Mary Lumley. Yeah. And Gerald Dean's family was Jackie, who was Yeah, who was her mum or dad? I think Mary lonely. Hebert was

Speaker 3 2:58:57
Becky. lumley's. Mom. Was she wasn't that Becky lumley's? Mum was Yeah, by Mary. Like doesn't make sense. But she was a Mary. And I think that's where it comes from. Yeah.

Speaker 2 2:59:12
So Stan, Stan is definitely related to the Lumbee. Oh, yeah. He's married London. Bizarre aunty.

Unknown Speaker 2:59:22
Yep. Jackie was

Unknown Speaker 2:59:27
lovely. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:59:30
When were they CB America table available. We go up. He says we're not allowed to hunt deer over in those one anywhere.

Unknown Speaker 2:59:50
We go down to his boat and you have to chase the deer out of the way going through his archery. Shoot see view holds dear he just loved it.

Speaker 3 3:00:03
Anyway, yeah, they've got they've got both sides. And they're related to the Lebanese related to people in San Juan, right? Oh, yeah. Anyway,

Speaker 1 3:00:12
I've got the family tree. And then you mentioned somebody who has some photographs and stuff and you know, he's got not alone. Pictures can

Unknown Speaker 3:00:23
talk to me. He's funny about

Unknown Speaker 3:00:28
anything. It's funny people. There's people like that.

Unknown Speaker 3:00:32
Yeah. They said, I'm not interested

Unknown Speaker 3:00:33
in you everyday, the church for you. What are the HI.

Speaker 2 3:00:39
He came to visit us one time I was trying to talk him into I had just given a bunch of what I had to random and frightening. And I told Bill I said you should take what you've got there all that history been getting, give it to the archive people so that it gets it gets recorded. But I was here I was burns down or something. Oh, I want to give up our history. And so he came over to visit one day and he brought the whole binder of stuff. He said here and I went in the room and scanned it all.

Unknown Speaker 3:01:11
Oh, well. You got fishers. You got his picture

Speaker 2 3:01:13
I've got I have a picture of old granny lovely that I showed you with? Yeah, this backwards. Mostly it was a lot of documents and stuff. We'd Hanson had done a lot of work. Oh, right. Right. I'll look at again, because I scanned it while you were feeding them dinner. Good point on that. I've never really looked at it. That's

Speaker 3 3:01:36
what we need to feed. Yeah, I was gonna take all this stuff to you. Vic was back. He was gonna come in and bring it down and photograph it all. scan it. And he was into it.

Speaker 2 3:01:49
Yeah, he gets hinky about people seeing his his history. Well,

Speaker 1 3:01:54
you know, look at the Americana example. The archives, scan their family photos, they'd all be gone. Because their house burned. All that stuff disappeared. But we had copies. Yeah.

Speaker 2 3:02:08
Yeah, I never had a problem. It's just history. Yeah,

Speaker 3 3:02:12
yes. Great to make the connections. Right. So anyway, I'll talk to Geraldine, I'll let you know what she says. And then fine up either spring break trip or later or whatever works,

Speaker 2 3:02:23
okay. Because all of the places I know the lonely place to to how many places we'll have to find out who lives there and see if we can go in and at least take a picture of the building. I know

Speaker 1 3:02:33
that led us on because like I said, I've been in contact with the owner. All right.

Speaker 2 3:02:38
She had replaced which was Julian O'Connor. That one that you said Yeah, so it's they're really all in this place was Andrew Palau and then the Russell Ames Island. What's it Russell land that's still there. And the Peavine house? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 3:02:58
My house to be good. You know,

Speaker 1 3:03:00
it's really interesting when you think about I mean, there's a lot of physical evidence of that, you know, one you know, descendant community. still around. It's the same as the Japanese like, around with my buddy lives down a sharp whole bunch of buildings there. From the time you hold through booth canal. It's quite amazing. How many are still there. There's a big huge rock all down in there. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 3:03:23
Yeah.

Speaker 1 3:03:25
Yeah. Oh, the charcoal. Oh, yeah. Cool. A couple of Charcoal Ovens were rediscovered in moex. Park wasn't there and they were just big rectangular tents where Sokka family made charcoal. And once we've kind of partly restored by a guy on Galliano. What's up fellas? Oh, I know. Steve. Oh, yeah. Steve, nematode, and he has been researching this because he restored when a Galliano usually it's near his place there. And he's researched them and he's written a good stuff about it helped restore this button, so you should go check it out. It's right in the car. He's driving that sort of

Unknown Speaker 3:04:12
Yeah, I've seen it you about Yeah. And it's interesting. I think at the time when they showed those pictures in the local newspaper people were seeing more with Spark the whole people wanted to

Unknown Speaker 3:04:31
change that you don't

Speaker 1 3:04:34
actually it should be McKeesport. Yeah, that's what that's what Rosa McPhee, he was the guy that gave it to the community or are intended to be a borrower's original owner who allowed two sockets to work a lot of

Unknown Speaker 3:04:47
land swapping. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 3:04:54
know they've looked into

Unknown Speaker 3:04:55
that quite a bit. Yeah, that's very that's been a big part. Good,

Speaker 3 3:05:01
but might get McAfee's name here. Yeah, got a little bit of a plan, or at least has been suggested. So that might be good. But to saqa you'll remember a couple of months ago we had this to sack was over here and put up that thing about their grandfather. Yeah, down by mullet. So we've got a little tribute piece to them. Which is really cool because you know, they've got that piece here but I'd love to just throw this out here because I would love to do something for the mirror kameez for their parents. You know, here we're honoring the two SACCOs and that was really great and their whole family get you know, the family that could come game and yeah, so excited. And that's really great. And that there's this physical thing that their grandfather built these kilns and he built the big rock wall and but those are physical things so we're we've got something to say wow, look what these guys did and yet they left the island in 1925

Unknown Speaker 3:05:51
No, so far back and then you've got you know,

Unknown Speaker 3:05:55
rose and Richard

Speaker 1 3:05:58
and they had the amazing courage to come back. It's hard to imagine

Speaker 3 3:06:01
and you could imagine what it would mean to Rose and Richard to have some to honor their parents so funny.

Speaker 1 3:06:06
Nobody's thought of that. Well, don't they have the memorial garden is that kind of really to

Speaker 3 3:06:10
the those parents you know it's for it you know, the internment information is there and yeah, I just I don't know.

Speaker 1 3:06:18
It's a great project. Where would you put it? I don't

Unknown Speaker 3:06:22
know. And I don't know what it could be but I just know how much one

Speaker 1 3:06:24
of your farmer lands I'll see if anybody is interested there still was ovens at around one just got destroyed by the people at the cider place. Yeah, there was one of the original concrete I think they're the charcoal burners. Some people thought they were used to heat the the greenhouses and then Brian thanks so Charcoal burners but the big long Yeah, concrete

Unknown Speaker 3:06:56
is one of those one of those

Speaker 1 3:06:59
two is are like those would be good to document and but one got destroyed because they she Clay No that's not Japanese. is in a way the parking lot

Unknown Speaker 3:07:09
to move the damn thing was wonderful for

Unknown Speaker 3:07:15
the gentleman traveling remember the name bringing it up in the mountain there. Ready rattles

Unknown Speaker 3:07:28
up on top of the ridge. Oh

Unknown Speaker 3:07:31
Webster's Yeah. The Webster property. They're just really I'm not sure that it's a triglavian but it's it's just Jade concrete structure that is unexplainable shouldn't be there any egg somebody said it was for storing milk in

Speaker 1 3:07:54
the dimensions of this thing is it open at the topper? Yeah. Sounds like a charcoal thing.

Unknown Speaker 3:08:02
No, foundation was my house. Wow.

Unknown Speaker 3:08:05
And sorry we're on the Webster property your property

Unknown Speaker 3:08:11
right now but I can tell you

Unknown Speaker 3:08:12
very nice house. Well when you come in in full for an hour on a ferry, yeah. Straight up pretty much straight up from the little village is a is a hoax right up there. Okay. Bri was built that and I remember going up there when it was being built. And it's just like there's Fulford harbour like the belly button of our world. How'd you get up there?

Unknown Speaker 3:08:40
I remember you came up Stuart road no

Unknown Speaker 3:08:47
no I don't think there's any way All I know is we went up past we went up past the old Pepperidge Farm and then we turned left Oh up where because increments are now yeah.

Unknown Speaker 3:09:07
This place is a beverage corner back up the hill that way

Speaker 3 3:09:15
and that's where this this charcoal or whatever we're calling it is foundation

Unknown Speaker 3:09:19
or whatever it is.

Unknown Speaker 3:09:22
He was right up at the top right on the top.

Unknown Speaker 3:09:26
Oh, can you see it?

Unknown Speaker 3:09:29
You can find it.

Unknown Speaker 3:09:32
You having to drive ready to drive away? Well, I'm not sure that that's we've actually worked through it as well.

Unknown Speaker 3:09:42
Well, maybe Duncan knows where it is.

Unknown Speaker 3:09:47
Isn't there more houses built up there now? He was the only one. You couldn't go up there. It was too rainy. Because it was a really bad road. console

Unknown Speaker 3:10:00
has a big house, wasn't it? Well, I

Unknown Speaker 3:10:02
remember now I just don't remember that they

Unknown Speaker 3:10:05
must have been a party senior retiring there

Unknown Speaker 3:10:13
for years and I think

Unknown Speaker 3:10:14
about this at home, but why sign

Unknown Speaker 3:10:20
up to the cloud?

Unknown Speaker 3:10:24
Where's that other pink part? Oh? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 3:10:30
this guy that was in the system.

Unknown Speaker 3:10:33
Oh, yeah. Right across the

Unknown Speaker 3:10:34
floor Team Fortress directly crop

Unknown Speaker 3:10:36
this guy. Yeah. Okay. I'm

Speaker 3 3:10:37
just gonna say pink. No coloring in that little bit there. Right. Yeah. Okay. Which is what you think. Right? We're the churches John was saying before you came capital city.

Speaker 2 3:10:50
Shepherd. He's preempted this in 1884. Yeah. And see all these. Well, he's this is 14 and it goes across the harbor.

Unknown Speaker 3:11:01
At church, that's the churches.

Unknown Speaker 3:11:02
I didn't color.

Speaker 1 3:11:05
I miss it. And that's so late 1880s. So there were people that owned that before him or printed

Speaker 2 3:11:10
and this one here. This is a 1413 and 12 is cut in half. They're that first half. That's WIMS right. That's the preemption he had. So he was down a full Yeah. I didn't get his first name. I don't know if it was higher. Yeah, we've got info.

Unknown Speaker 3:11:27
That's interesting. Somebody said

Unknown Speaker 3:11:29
he's somebody's buried there

Speaker 2 3:11:36
and those two properties I never knew. This is up above Fulford brother. These are parents and this Joe county preempted this and George Fisher here remember them being up there? I don't know. Maybe they preempted

Unknown Speaker 3:11:55
logging. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, sure. Doc

Unknown Speaker 3:12:07
sync up there. When that'd be the top of that hill.

Unknown Speaker 3:12:09
It'd be on the slope of

Unknown Speaker 3:12:12
the few trees and big furs

Unknown Speaker 3:12:15
no before they logged orange miss one two and four.

Unknown Speaker 3:12:31
whole island? Yeah, just one orange. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 3:12:36
Would you just gray ink or what

Speaker 2 3:12:38
time it was two separate crown grants. Okay.

Speaker 1 3:12:42
So they got these grants after they preempted like we don't know I think that's yeah no that's yeah that's why I'm so they were here like earlier way earlier.

Speaker 2 3:12:51
Yeah. These ones I guess maybe first grants this would be 1875

Unknown Speaker 3:12:57
So there's the earlier one on the Yeah, the beach and this looks straight

Speaker 2 3:13:01
in Fulford harbour that way because his house was his foundation was somewhere up in here and

Speaker 1 3:13:06
I think it's still there so I'm sure I read some archaeology report about the park and mentioned it

Unknown Speaker 3:13:11
well inside was cleared. Where's

Unknown Speaker 3:13:14
the barn plows miners?

Speaker 2 3:13:18
Well, this is the bay that they everybody anchors in now and you walk straight up into their feet, like the whole center of the islands basically. Yeah, beautiful. Kale, thanks

Speaker 3 3:13:33
for that. Great to have these pledges. I think we've got them some other amounts, but it'd be good to compare. It'd be totally original.

Speaker 2 3:13:42
It'd be nice to get a map that it's in the whole south end. Because like this one is so much smaller. It's hard to really tell

Speaker 1 3:13:50
that's what we need when and just show the the line associated spots in pinches, nice. Well have them ready together.

Unknown Speaker 3:14:03
Yeah, all they had kind of

Speaker 1 3:14:08
their highlighters. Okay. No, that's really cool. Yeah. And these ones are interesting to get look at the names of these because this shows their livelihoods what they were doing, you know, it'd be interesting to know when they put these might even go up there and look might see evidence still logging, springboard, lots of stuff. Some of the archaeologist, material

Unknown Speaker 3:14:33
whatever it is, oh, that's really cool. Finally

Speaker 3 3:14:42
Thank you, John. Maybe on the end of this tape, he'll say something official like I'm John Rowland, get permission. Say something because we should have a record of it says

Unknown Speaker 3:14:52
it's okay to use your words.

Unknown Speaker 3:14:54
I acknowledge that it's been taped and I agree with its use. Thank you, John. Good to have Whoa What's the date today February

Unknown Speaker 3:15:01
2232 It's 2022 to

Unknown Speaker 3:15:09
date okay thank you everyone