404_Tom-Toynbee_Growing-Up-SSI_05-2019.mp3

otter.ai

12.02.2024

no

Outline

Family history and genealogy.
• Tom Toynbee shares his family history on Saltspring Island, including his mother's ancestors who moved there in 1885 and his father's arrival after World War One.
• In 1924, Jesse Mullet built his home on Churchill Road, Cranberry, PA, after missing the woman he intended to marry during a buggy ride with a teacher, Jessie Mullet.

Family history and genealogy in Salt Spring Island, BC.
• Speaker 1 mentions their grandmother Jane Mowat running a boarding house in Ganges, which later became a business with their uncles, and their mother growing up there.
• Speaker 2 asks about the origin of the name "Grace Island" and Speaker 1 is unsure, possibly suggesting it was named after a sibling or cousin.
• Speaker 1 discusses the history of their family's house on Salt Spring Island, built in the 1930s by their grandfather Richard Toynbee.
• Speaker 2 asks questions about the property's history, including the construction of the road and the entrance to the house, which may have been the ocean or bay.

A man's garage business during wartime.
• Speaker 1 details their father's garage and machining business in Ganges, BC, during wartime, mentioning he fabricated parts for vehicles and equipment when available ones were scarce.
• Speaker 1 remembers her mother saying, "Your daddy kept us going during the depression," and recalls the importance of her father's work in keeping the family afloat financially.
• Speaker 1 also remembers her surroundings as a child, including the older brothers and older people in her life, as well as the pets and dogs on the property.

Family history and social connections in Salt Spring Island.
• Speaker 1 recounts how their mother's cousin, Winnie Mercer, would visit from Nanaimo and arrive by boat.
• Speaker 1 mentions their mother's involvement in social clubs and their father's support of the NDP and CCF in the 1950s.

Family history and World War II experiences.
• Speaker 1's mother was religious and took him to church, where he enjoyed the food and company, while Speaker 1's father was less enthusiastic but enjoyed making Sunday dinner.
• Speaker 1 shares stories about their uncle Gilbert's small shack on Grace Point, which he lived in for $10 a month until the early 1950s.
• Uncle Charlie shares a story about protecting fuel tanks during WWII.

Wartime experiences and air raid drills in 1940s Canada.
• In 1942, Nansen and Mr. Elliott created a makeshift siren using a cream separator and wheelbarrow to warn of an impending air raid in Ganges.
• Speaker 1 recounts their childhood experiences during WWII, including their brother's military training and deployment.

Family history and memories during WWII.
• Speaker 1 recounts their experience of the end of World War II, including their father's return home and the celebration that ensued.
• Speaker 2 asks about the speaker's connection with their grandmother, who died when the speaker was two years old.
• Uncle Gilbert Mullet was a beloved figure in Salt Spring Island, known for his business acumen and helpful nature, despite being confined to a wheelchair due to polio.

Childhood memories and fishing experiences.
• Speaker 1 describes their experience starting school at age 6, mentioning their early friends Pat Crofton and Jackie Lumley, and their teacher Miss Mormon.
• Speaker 2 asks about how Speaker 1 got to school every day, and Speaker 1 mentions walking with their brothers who were in school.
• Speaker 1 describes their experience fishing with a handline in the ocean, mentioning they would tie the line to their ankle to keep it secure when a fish bit.
• Speaker 2 asks questions about the fishing method, with Speaker 1 explaining the process of handling a handline.

Fishing guide experiences in Campbell River, BC.
• Speaker 1 recounts how they became a fishing guide in Campbell River, BC, through a chance encounter with a business owner at a wedding.
• At 14 years old, the speaker's father died, and he was taken in by his mother after a guide named Dick took him on a trip to Campbell River for the month of August.
• The speaker was too young to go back and finish guiding, so he had to wait a couple of years before getting a job on the wharf.

Growing up on Saltspring Island, BC, Canada.
• John describes a time when he was 14 years old and cleaning a large fish that he had caught, but it died and he was unable to reach it. He then used a thin sapling to retrieve the fish from the bottom of the water.
• John talks about his friends on Saltspring Island, including the Nelson boys and Geraldine crabs, and how he would go home with them after school and enjoy the freedom of being outdoors.
• Speaker 1 describes the town's waterfront as unattractive and polluted in the past, with sewage flowing into the harbor and creek.
• Speaker 1 remembers a house on Ganges Hill where they took piano lessons with a teacher who lived there.
• Speaker 1 and Speaker 2 discuss other families living in the town, including the Goodmans and Bob Rush.

Childhood memories of a small town in BC.
• Speaker 1 discusses their family history, including their uncle's suicide and their mother's subsequent relationship with a housekeeper named Miss Molyneux.
• Speaker 1 reminisces about childhood memories of a creek and wetland area, now filled in for development.
• In the 1950s, locals skated on frozen ponds and creeks in Ladysmith, BC, including Scott's Pond and Kings Flats.

Local history and landmarks in Sidney, BC.
• Speaker 1 remembers a building on the waterfront that was built on pilings and had a fragment of upland property as an entrance.
• Speaker 2 thinks the building was originally a Turner store, but Speaker 1 is unsure and wants to confirm with photos.
• Speaker 1 mentions visiting the Hastings house as a child and remembers fishing with the Nelson boys on the beach in front of the property.
• Speaker 2 mentions the property where the Hastings house is now was previously owned by the Degnan family and was vacant for most of its history.

Fishing practices and smelt spawning in a coastal town.
• Speaker 1 describes a method for catching smelt using a net and a rowboat, with Speaker 2 asking about the origins of the system.
• Speaker 1 mentions a Greek fisherman with a small boat and a smelt net, who would come from Sydney to fish.
• Speaker 1 describes watching a fishing procedure in which fishermen used nets to catch herring in the harbor, with the fish accumulating in a bag and then being processed for the Japanese market.
• Speaker 1 and Speaker 2 discuss the last time they remember the herring being in the harbor, which was in 1974, and how the fishery was affected by heavy gillnet fishing and the construction of a fish plant.

Childhood memories and school experiences.
• Speaker reflects on childhood memories, including learning to throw shot put and winning bronze medal in BC high school championships.
• Speaker 1 recounts school dances and a principal who was "ferocious" but kind.

Family history and camping experiences.
• Speaker 1 describes their experience working at a fishing lodge on an island, where they met many guests and developed the art of conversation.
• Speaker 2 asks about camping at the northern end of the island and how it was to live in a home there.
• Speaker 1 talks about their family's history with the property at Sally Point, mentioning their mother, uncle, and cousin.
• Speaker 2 recalls spending time at Sally Point with Speaker 1 and their mother, and mentions a storm that occurred in February 1972 that affected the property.
• Speaker 1 reflects on their school days and the challenges of growing up on an island, including dropping out of school to work in logging.

School memories and life stories.
• Maureen, a former student of the speaker, was the leading light in school and ended up with the highest marks on southern Vancouver Island.
• The speaker and Maureen reconnected after many years and shared stories about their time in school.

Unknown Speaker 0:01
Okay, so that's recording it. But I'm also going to set this up just so I have double

Unknown Speaker 0:22
Okay, so don't feel too much technology in front of you. So just, just first of all, just to say that that you give your name and that you get permission for us to record this and have it in the archives.

Unknown Speaker 0:36
Okay, so I'll go ahead with Tom Toynbee. And I'm giving permission to have this recorded and used by the archives. Great. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 0:48
thanks, Tom. So, just, you know, the the idea of the interview as I as I stated before we turn the recorder on was just to talk about your growing up time again, geez, and how that was. And so we'll sort of start from that point, but maybe just start by telling us who, what your what your family situation was, who your parents are, who your parents are, who their parents were, how you came to be on Saltspring your family came to be on Saltspring

Unknown Speaker 1:18
Oh, the family came became to be on Saltspring. The, my mother was the youngest daughter of Jane and Thomas mullet. And the mullet family moved to Salt Spring in 1885. Mother was born 11 years later in 1886. And then, two years later, her father died Tom Thomas died leaving grandmother mode Jane bullet with I guess 10 surviving children at that time. And my dad ended up coming over here in after World War One where he had been previously in Vancouver prior to World War One. And he ended up working for Vickers in England and manufacturing guns and during the war, and then he returned here and his he had two brothers living up in the cranberry. On what is now Toynbee road at the end of it in a cabin they built called they called it Liberty Hall. And I believe is correct that dad came to visit them one time, and ended up in a buggy ride up to the cranberry where the house was with a young lady who was a teacher in the EPA on the up and the cranberry. And this was Jesse Molad. And he it's according to folklore, he said to have told his brothers he just he just missed the woman he was going to marry. So and that came to pass and they built their, their home on Churchill road. And I guess it was 1924 2009 brother Dick was, was born in 1925.

Unknown Speaker 3:32
Did they live somewhere previous to building the home on Churchill? No,

Unknown Speaker 3:35
no, I don't think so. I know that I've heard of there might have been some short term arrangements there but not that I remember. And

Unknown Speaker 3:46
and just to back up a bit to your grandmother and then being left you know when her husband died in the business. So where did Jessie mullet grow up primarily?

Unknown Speaker 3:59
Well, she grew up on St. Mary's lake from until 1907. And when when grandmother and Uncle Gilbert bought mullet storable. His grandmother borrowed the money to buy Malcolm and Purvis which became briefly Jane mullet and sons and then most brothers limited afterwards. And the whole family moved down. I think in 2007, just about the time of the purchase of the store and the outset the store was on the main floor of what later became the Ganges in next door to the current store. And I'm not sure where they managed to put all the kids in there but they did. And then that of course the main store was built three years later. The current building right?

Unknown Speaker 5:01
And Jesse would have been 11 or 12 or so that's

Unknown Speaker 5:06
right and as seven and seven for 11 years old

Unknown Speaker 5:12
just want a backup on that point one just to get this sorted down now, Grace point, Greece Ireland are named after another sibling, is that correct? Well,

Unknown Speaker 5:21
I'm not positive. We I had a cousin grace, who was was Uncle, WM mullets daughter, grace that was not in good health through her lifetime. She had a tough, tough time. I I was never sure whether it was that was after grace or or someone else I'm not sure. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 5:50
So the the point and the island out there may have been named after either. wN loions daughter or the sibling of the moment family like Jesse's younger sister who only lived a short time,

Unknown Speaker 6:03
which was that grace? It was Grace. Well, it could have been, could be at. People have asked about where that that very well could be at I should have known more about that. And of course, she died for a few months. Yeah, I don't even know she's that long.

Unknown Speaker 6:22
So Jane Mueller had lost her husband and her youngest child in the same vertebrae

Unknown Speaker 6:26
at the same time. That's right. Interestingly, when when when I was brought up as a little boy, we didn't call it grace. Upon Grace point, we call it most point. And Grace Island was always named Grace Island as I remember. And there Yeah, i When my days when I would roll around Ganges harbour with my friends when we read pretend we were the CPR, steamships and we'd stop at different islands and provisions on what's

Unknown Speaker 7:09
the point of calling the Ganges? Hmm, that's right. That sounds like fun. Okay, so so your, your grandparents or your grandmother, Jane Mowat had the boarding house and then started the business with your uncles. And, and Jesse, your your mother grew up in the, in the boarding house, there are what became the Ganges and I guess, cover all the terms and and then they built the new store in 1907. And Jesse would have met your your father, maybe in her early 20s. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 7:46
Would have been. Yeah, would have been no nearly 20 So she would have been probably 2024 Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 7:54
Okay. And then they built the house at the end of Churchill road and at the time do you know was there anything else I'm sure toll road

Unknown Speaker 8:05
I don't know. I don't know of anything else. But I'm not I'm not concerned. There's some old photos you've seen them probably where you've saw a lot of that land was cleared by that was probably logged and whatnot. And I'm not sure when the house at the end of the point was built but that was part of one time of my parents property.

Unknown Speaker 8:30
Oh, was it okay so the property was more expensive to start with.

Unknown Speaker 8:35
Festival by the best of my knowledge that was I think I've included the whole point. And that's where the wealth that supplied the house was and then continues to supply it up until North Salt Spring Water was put in there. It was on the other other lot.

Unknown Speaker 8:55
We'll have to look at that. So that would be the road that goes up and around the corner like to my bay or was it Yeah, well.

Unknown Speaker 9:03
The road took off the driveway just took off. Right? Well, we're Kevin and Nicola live there. Driveway went down that way out to the point. There were different folks that lived on the point the Macintoshes and Hastings Paul eastings family one time or another?

Unknown Speaker 9:31
And I've heard sort of family I guess stories that there was no road when the house was first built and that the entrance to the house was the was the ocean or was the bay but is that possible?

Unknown Speaker 9:44
I don't know that. I I would think you know with with Dad shortly after having the garage and Ganges. It's hard to conceive that it wouldn't be wouldn't have been driving Ghannouchi so I would imagine there's a track got built fairly quickly they're likely

Unknown Speaker 10:05
to meet to the lumley's would have been there. Not only

Unknown Speaker 10:09
were there pretty early, lumley's Jackie Lumley who just passed away. And as you well know, Jackie, and I went to school grade one together. So Well, exactly when they build I don't know that it might have been about 1930. Or, or there abouts maybe a little bit for that

Unknown Speaker 10:30
10 years of your family house.

Unknown Speaker 10:31
That's right. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 10:33
that's good to know. So, the house is built and your your mum and dad Jessie and Richard Toynbee. They have three boys together, but you're the youngest. So before you came along, what's your what's your sense of the history of things, your your maybe you could explain what your father did in town and how your mother would have passed her days or?

Unknown Speaker 10:55
Well? I think Dad, I not certain, but I think that actually started his shops in the in the sort of Quonset hut. If you've seen the pictures, were right about where the Bank of Commerce is, or Bank of Montreal in that area. In the 20s, as to my best of my knowledge, and

Unknown Speaker 11:29
and what was his business, he,

Unknown Speaker 11:31
it was a garage and he was a machinist. That's where he worked at Vickers. He was a very good machinist. And he had what was fly Saltspring standards, very good equipment. And by any standards in those days, I remember as a child seeing a great big lathe that he had that he turned things on and then a smaller lathe. And he, he, during the times when there was during wartime and there was a great shortage of parts you couldn't get any parts to keep vehicles going particularly log trucks and things of this nature. He could make a lot of things actually fabricate them right there and then in the shop. It was the Ganges garage and it became it was the competitor was mullets, which was on the original on the landward grades Gracepoint Square was now that was Molas.

Unknown Speaker 12:33
mullets was on where Gracepoint square,

Unknown Speaker 12:35
just moist garage? Garage. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 12:37
I see. Oh, I don't think I knew that. Okay, that's good to know. And what would you have fabricated for local people, which you think?

Unknown Speaker 12:48
Well, it would be parts for for vehicles or equipment. Do that sort of thing when they when they weren't available? And you have to piece things together. And when he walked Mao, have you ever heard of Winnie Winnie? She used she told me repeatedly. That how, during the latter part of the depression in the early years of the war, she and her husband at that time was Joe Lachman, and they were logging. And she used to say to me, your daddy, your daddy kept us going. When we didn't have any money and we couldn't going your daddy kept us going. And so if you need help, then I'll give it to you. I remember very well when just a time when we thought we were going to really need help.

Unknown Speaker 13:47
And do you think she was referring to financially helped or he helped with having craft

Unknown Speaker 13:52
keeping the vehicles going? And not that started getting paid for a long, long time? Because they carry the carry credit? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 14:00
Interesting. Okay, so that's the kind of work he would do and then your mother would be I guess at that time would be home when she

Unknown Speaker 14:08
was home and looking after the boys and then I came along of course, being seven years younger than maths and nine years younger than Dick and I was to be the girl of the family and didn't quite work out that way.

Unknown Speaker 14:25
She's thrilled with her three boys I'm sure and so there's a classic no question but what what do you first remember about your surroundings?

Unknown Speaker 14:36
That's a good question. I was wondering if you're gonna ask that. I what I first remember I was just the surroundings of the house there with the boys being as much older as as they were than I was. I didn't have any kind of really lot of near neighbor was when I was a little boy until I went to school as a matter of fact, and I, I guess by today's standards ever would have been deprived of social contact because it was basically the boys were older, and my parents and so on so an awful lot of older people and not a lot of kids that the headset. But then of course that changed when they went to went off to school. I remember just being on the property I remember the pets and dogs. Joe Oates Cocker Spaniel, I remember, we had various cats along the way, or the first one I remember was fluffy. And somewhere you'll find a picture of me when I was maybe four or five years old, with fluffy and my arms in a hole in a really snowy scene at the back of the house. We've got one of those here. I know that

Unknown Speaker 16:01
and which room in the house was yours, your bed? Well,

Unknown Speaker 16:04
it was we were all together for most of the time. That because the spare room the three bedrooms upstairs, the spare room was usually reserved for Winnie Mercer, who was mother's cousin, who was a marvelous friend of mother. And when he used to come and visit us fairly frequently. Now it may be that leader Dick went in there, but I can't remember that too well, whether he got promoted. But

Unknown Speaker 16:41
we did when he Mercer come down to visit you from

Unknown Speaker 16:44
from Nanaimo. And in those days it was part of the house. She was at Mercer Madsen

Unknown Speaker 16:52
How was just out of interest? How would she have come down from Nanaimo? Come

Unknown Speaker 16:57
down to Croft and and then get a lunch over from Croft. And there's always been kind of a natural trade route from Croft and across to Salt Spring. And it was only when Uncle Gavin put it in the gut and got the ferry put in a craft and that was actually made a permanent thing. But prior to that, that's how I'm sure my the bullets arrived in 1885. That would be the closest distance the closest shortest trip you could make.

Unknown Speaker 17:30
And when you say get a launch, do you mean like just there would be bumps just over there?

Unknown Speaker 17:33
Yeah, you'd rent. They'd arrange to rent it. I suspect but probably my dad came that way when he came to the island first, I think probably so.

Unknown Speaker 17:47
So when he would come and visit quite often, and would you Who else do you remember your mom's? Who would your mother's friends have been that would come around? Don't

Unknown Speaker 17:56
we had occasional visitors and I don't remember them very well. But some. Occasionally there were people that had some connection with England. Mother courts have got lots of friends on the island and lots of families that we read

Unknown Speaker 18:15
some of those names as to

Unknown Speaker 18:17
well, we just didn't hear neurosis Mrs Lumley up the road. Was a very lovely lady, actually. But don't you've ever seen pictures of her? Yeah, I knew she was a Joe. Yeah, I knew she was. She's a great strong looking woman. Very, very impressive. This is Nelson. This is a crabs. They all lived at that time on Churchill road.

Unknown Speaker 18:47
Okay, that's good to know.

Unknown Speaker 18:55
Okay, that's so they're all three on Churchill road.

Unknown Speaker 18:57
Yeah. And, you know, many others to do with the church and so on. They can't remember the names of those were our immediate neighbors. And mother. As you probably know, my dad was a socialist and good supporter of the NDP. Well, you know, now the NDP has CCF then. And Mother I don't think and I don't know whether he ever joined the CCF but he was certainly a supporter and so his mother, I don't think she ever joined the CCF but they were the crabs in particular were quite strong supporters and there were other families that were you know who were supporters so we saw them the Goodmans for example in in in a Ganges to remember daddy and so they were there were some younger but they were They were good, good friends.

Unknown Speaker 20:06
And was your mother involved in many other you know, some of the social clubs or something of the time and what?

Unknown Speaker 20:14
What I remember was the lady Jade.

Unknown Speaker 20:16
Okay, and what was that all about?

Unknown Speaker 20:19
I'm not quite I think they did good works and but the mother would take me after school when I was a little boy would take me to the ladies aid meetings, which I wasn't, didn't really relish except they had food. And they still have sandwiches that they made, they'd have their afternoon tea and sandwiches and the Ganges at the end, where I remember going there quite quite a few times. So as far as other than that the church, gosh, she was very I was gonna say very religious church. She was she went to the church to church was rare that she ever missed her turn to Sunday. My dad was not as excited about going to church. He wasn't as enthusiastic but mother would get him to go. But he would the ranch to bargain his way out most of the time by saying that he would, he would make Sunday dinner, which was elder after church. And he was actually a pretty good cook, and just on the woodstove he would. And unlike, like, most British who do their food to death, he liked his beef, medium rare and he was he was good. He turned it out well, and, and he baked and whatnot. And he really enjoyed that he enjoyed the break from from working in the shop, and

Unknown Speaker 22:01
a nice treat for your mom to have the break from. That's right.

Unknown Speaker 22:05
And when we come home, from church, my uncle Charlie would arrive. Right and you've heard of Uncle Charlie,

Unknown Speaker 22:12
where they're two brothers. So

Unknown Speaker 22:14
when Charlie and Bert, Bert died. And I never knew this until recently, Tom found out Tom Jr. Found out that he actually died of TB because he got the death certificate, and I knew he'd had lung disease. And he was the twin of Charlie. But Charlie came virtually every Sunday I can think of for lunch. And we all loved Uncle Charlie, the boys. And we would he was fairly gullible. And we could play tricks on him. Dick And Manson did particularly. Well, it was a little bit young for that, but we'd find ways of of and he was a good, you know, good sport about it all.

Unknown Speaker 23:07
Did you still live in the cranberry at the time? No,

Unknown Speaker 23:10
no, he lived when I was as long as I could remember he lived on what's point? Great point. And I can tell stories about that. He lived a little shack, I guess she would say the size of that. rented from mullets for I think for $10 a month, he thought he thought he was overcharged

Unknown Speaker 23:40
sort of a 10 by 10.

Unknown Speaker 23:43
Maybe a little bigger total, maybe maybe almost 20 loan because he had a there was room for a bath or washroom but the washroom had never been completed. So there was no indoor plumbing. Water had to be carried. There was no water to it. And but he loved the view out over the harbor and he looked right across right directly across to our property on Churchill road.

Unknown Speaker 24:08
Oh, it was on that side. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 24:12
Classic location now.

Unknown Speaker 24:16
That any paid mo it's how much sorry. I think

Unknown Speaker 24:18
it was complained about ping Gilbert. That was Uncle Gilbert $10 a month. And he lived there a long time. Do you live there today done? No, he didn't. He'll be lived there until we sometime in the early 50s. And he moved up to a bull place up on Rainbow Road. Just basically, partly where the tennis the swimming pool is now. When we had indoor indoor plumbing, it was a it was a small building there but he he liked it. And there was two. Actually there were two houses on Grace point at that time there was this little one and then it was another one about halfway in towards mullets rented at the time I remember there by a Mr. Mr. And Mrs. Bush BPOS I think BLS Cha something. He pronounced Butch. That's a lot. There's a little story that goes with do omitted. I've never heard about them. And when the Pearl Harbor occurred OCO Gilbert who, who of course, was running bullets, but he, he was wheelchair bound, he was paraplegic. He sent somebody out accordingly. This is a story from Uncle Charlie, by the way, he sent somebody out to get Mr. Boeotian and Paul Charlie, and bring them in. He wanted to meet with them. Okay. So he said that that was the war on and we had to think about protecting their the fuel tanks and bullets. Now, it's hard for me to conceive that he would have thought that the Japanese were really going to attack Ganges. But mind you, and those days, when, first of all, nobody thought Pearl Harbor would occur. And the Japanese wouldn't dare and they did. And so right away, and rumors started spreading and so on so forth. But I don't think the Japanese fleet would have been coming into Ganges to get the field that might run them for about 10 seconds. But there is the other possibility he might have been concerned about possible sabotage. In other words, whether whether members of the Japanese community are sympathetic to the cause, I don't know. But the little story that goes is after the meeting motion and charity went out and the idea was they were doing guarded all night 20 And so one would take six hours one would take six hours so when they love Bush, who is very, very deaf, said Charlie, do you think we should have a password remember telling

Unknown Speaker 27:48
that story later? Maybe the AutoCAD a signal rather than a password that's funny I suppose that lasted very long the guard of the point

Unknown Speaker 27:58
I don't know how they'll I get asked him to probably have very long so there is when we're connected to that with with Manson who would Pearl time of Pearl Harbor? I was seven right? Yeah. So Manson was was nine Yeah, right now you would have been pardon me seven he would have been 14. And by he volunteered to help. Mr. Elliott, who was the local fire chief and self appointed they RP air raid patrol, man. And we have new probably heard this, but we had drills where you put up blackout curtains at night, in case the Japanese bombers came overhead. And so this one particular day Nansen went over and the word got out that there was going to be a air raid practice that night. And the word got around largely through the party lines. telephone operators was spread. You know about the the air raid patrol tonight and six o'clock. It was to be six o'clock so it must have been it's probably early 1942 I'm trying to remember this because so Manson was in Ganges to operate the siren. And uncle and Mr. Elliott had not been able to get a siren or the government then that's Another story in itself got written up extensively in the newspaper. But he crafted one out of a cream separator and put it on a wheelbarrow. And Manson's job was to go and to crank this when, when the warning was to take place, which was to be six o'clock, I think in the evening. And I remember got us got a soda on the back of the, in the backyard of the property. It was a quiet night, at six o'clock sort of a moaning sound came out of his head, but there's a quick get up the blackout. And it was actually cardboard we put over the windows in the kitchen and everybody went in the kitchen. And then he was supposed to stay so many hours before you were before you let the

Unknown Speaker 30:56
so that mean, it sounds like it was sort of kind of fun in a way. But was there any element? Or did you feel fear of something about?

Unknown Speaker 31:04
I didn't I was too young to feel fear. So but I don't think the boys did. And I don't. I don't remember, certainly my parents but my dad was much more worried about his family in England, of course with the blitz on the gone on. And that happened before 41, of course, was underway. And we were concerned about the family members were overseas. And they were quite a few of the tribe were overseas. And there were two last, who were they just British Drake? And what was Stewart what? And they were lost in airways over Germany. And so that my mother was always worried about her nephews being overseas was a big, big concern.

Unknown Speaker 32:10
Well, and having three boys she would have been concerned in general that something Yeah, you wouldn't have known them how long things would well then

Unknown Speaker 32:18
Dick went into the Navy, I guess when he was 18. So

Unknown Speaker 32:22
not much longer. So

Unknown Speaker 32:26
he just got into the war went back to it was trained in Nova Scotia and, and Quebec, the st hypothetical bet degree Nova Scotia I believe. And he was to be a radio operator. As I say it wasn't very good. And he had certain issues there but he was to be a radio operator. And he took a he had a leave after VG v A v. E day and Victory in Europe. Damian may 8 45. You had to leave and came home. And then he just went back I think and maybe late July of 1945. And mother was afraid that he might be going to the Pacific. The war with Japan was still on. And actually, we were mother and I were camping here and August of 45 just explained right out here at Saudi point. Okay, we are now sitting almost exactly where we are now. It was we had a tent here. And I love to come out here I wanted to come out and so she came out with me we stayed about two weeks. And this particular day. Suddenly the mill whistles champagne has started to blow it it was a very loud loud steam whistle and then other whistles started joining in. And so I was down on the beach probably building a raft which was something we always did and I ran up I said mother the word must be over the wire must be over. And sure enough probably an hour later because it took an hour to drive out here at least from Ganges dad arrived to announce Sunday the war was over and and to great relief obviously mother's great relief. He never got into combat or anything close to it. You were lucky. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 34:43
Well have to come back to the part about camping here because that sounds really really interesting. Yeah. So let's just back up to when you're at the house and your your brothers are obviously in school and you're not in school, yet. And so you spent a lot of time with your mom

Unknown Speaker 35:02
a lot. A great deal of time going to

Unknown Speaker 35:04
town I guess occasionally did you have much connection with your grandmother? She was still alive was only

Unknown Speaker 35:10
till 30 I think she died in 36. So I was two years old.

Unknown Speaker 35:14
You don't have too much memory of her. No,

Unknown Speaker 35:16
I don't have any memory there. I remember. I remember my uncle's very well. And through the store, of course, Uncle Uncle will WM mullet and GJ Gilbert Gilbert mode, who was

Unknown Speaker 35:44
he had to kind of be he was the unofficial mayor of Salt Spring, I think that time he had a remarkable talents and and it was, you know, terrible tragedy that when he he got polio at age 29, because he was a vigorous outdoor person. And I've heard that he became really, really quite depressed, and thought that he had little to offer in future but his brothers convinced him quite correctly that they really needed him to be the manager of the store. So and the the store was an elevator was put in at the store. And we got

Unknown Speaker 36:33
it been at the back of the store

Unknown Speaker 36:36
towards about a third of the way up from the back of the store. And I can show you in this building now on the ceiling where it was added operated by pulleys. And he could operate them,

Unknown Speaker 36:55
okay, from his wheelchair. He could operate something inside. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 36:59
And he came down, and I believe he operated his own car, and I think so. And he was able to get his way and operate the wheelchair. And he's so you've held court up in the office upstairs, and he was good. He was a good businessman. And he was he had many people just coming in seeing him asking for advice. And he wouldn't be a good listener and certainly, I think was looked on as a you know, a great helper by a lot of people.

Unknown Speaker 37:49
well regarded by the community, though. Yeah. As

Unknown Speaker 37:52
a matter of fact, the some of the letters written on his death were very bent and the great editorial and not editorial, but a great piece in the Vancouver province, written by Lee Spencer, about Gilbert Gilbert mullet.

Unknown Speaker 38:13
And he was was, you know, we're getting a little off topic with him. But just just to sort of confirm this. He was he married to? Well, girl, and she was a relative of The Economist. That's

Unknown Speaker 38:24
right. Yes. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 38:27
Well, on the job side guy,

Unknown Speaker 38:29
I guess that's right.

Unknown Speaker 38:32
Okay. So I guess I was just sort of setting that you were at home a lot with your with your mom and the other boys were in school. And so then how was it when you went to school? And was there kindergarten and

Unknown Speaker 38:46
No, no kindergarten, grade one,

Unknown Speaker 38:49
one as we start, and what was the school and what was the circumstances?

Unknown Speaker 38:53
Like I was when the first class that entered the new school.

Unknown Speaker 38:59
And I can even have a bit of sensory history of how that school came

Unknown Speaker 39:02
about. Yeah, well, the the it was through a tremendous amount of community effort. Gavin, that without question, do an enormous amount to get the school going gifting in the land. And it was to be the consolidated school. And I think Dad worked on the volunteer work on I think I heard the figures that went sometime $39,000 was the cost and it was the original building was great one the 1212 classrooms. And I do remember really well on the telly how isolated I'd been. I do remember crying when my mother took me to the school door. I do remember crying just because of leaving here her and not having been handled lot of data a day to day play with kids of that stage. But I got over that fairly quickly.

Unknown Speaker 40:07
And who were some of your early friends say? Do you remember in those early days? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 40:13
Pat crabs. 10 Gordy Wilson. Jackie, Jackie Lumley we had and then pat Crafton was just a year younger than I was and just thinking other names Bruce Gardner that's the first time and my first year of course we had there were quite a few Japanese kids in the class. But of course that ended very quickly.

Unknown Speaker 41:01
And yeah, I don't remember all the name the names Very well then. But

Unknown Speaker 41:07
do you remember who your teacher might have been? I

Unknown Speaker 41:11
can't remember the first year we had a miss Mormon. I remember that.

Unknown Speaker 41:17
And how would you get to school every day? Walk? You did? Even at grade one. Of course your brothers would be going so you'd walk? Yeah, they were going out of school. Did that feel like a long walk? No. How far is that? You know,

Unknown Speaker 41:34
I know positive for that is it didn't seem like a long walk. No, it's it's pretty routine. Did

Unknown Speaker 41:43
you walk on the road? Did you walk on every walk on the beach?

Unknown Speaker 41:47
No, but sometimes, sometimes I'm gonna get a little older rolled over to the dock right in front of mullets and walked over to the school was another way of doing it, of course would have been

Unknown Speaker 42:03
so you would you get a ride home with your dad occasionally, maybe because he would have been driving vehicle over there. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 42:12
I guess I did. Not so much. But when I got a little later on, when I got involved in sports a little bit, we had, we had that so I'd stay after school, but protected. Just trying to think back about dates here. About I think maybe when I was 10 or 11. It was for my birthday Uncle Charlie gave me a dugout canoe that he had, he'd obtained from I think from the reserve somebody on the reserve over on Maine. It was in really bad shape when he got big splits. But it was I think about 10 feet long. And what he did was a really good job of how he put tar in the seams and then he use fastenings to close them up. And he built a little little over the bow and stern a little bit of cover. We put in a rowing seat or locks and I rode that until oh gosh until I left home and I'd roll it up the arrow to right out to the end of the harbor up to this point right and drag a fishing line tied to my ankle and just gives us so routine you'd catch salmon not big ones on the surface but nice grills the size and occasionally get one a little bit bigger but what

Unknown Speaker 43:56
kind of seven would they be both

Unknown Speaker 44:00
Chinook circle

Unknown Speaker 44:04
What do you mean tied to your ankle? Why would you have a line tied to your ankle?

Unknown Speaker 44:08
Just so to tie it somewhere when the fish bit just reached down and take it off as he

Unknown Speaker 44:16
wouldn't have it on a real nose

Unknown Speaker 44:18
handline sounds to handling no real I didn't know what a real was until till I went to Campbell River years later right? well I shouldn't say that but I didn't have any rod or anything. It was all we everybody used handlines

Unknown Speaker 44:33
realize that and what would you use for bait or whatever then

Unknown Speaker 44:36
their spoons or plugs like up behind you look at the plugs. Right the old plugs in those are Campbell River days when I was a fishing guide

Unknown Speaker 44:49
much later so you would have been in your 20s or something then

Unknown Speaker 44:52
would you? Well, I started out I probably my first year guiding I was either 18 or 19 I think 18 Prior to that for two years, I was worked on the the wharf of the cat painters Lodge. I was living assistant work injure one year and then it became the warp engine. And then, of course, I wanted to become a guide. So I was bold enough to become a guy that became a guide. And did that three of my university days.

Unknown Speaker 45:20
Go there every summer. Yeah. And

Unknown Speaker 45:23
the way that got started was really peculiar when Dick was at the wedding of Norman Woods, who was our cousin Norman would at Mary would lived up at Campbell River that time and Norman would son, married. And painter, oh, painters Lodge, the daughter of founders. And Dick was at their wedding in Vancouver. and Mrs. painters who was quite a remarkable woman, she really ran the business during painter. He was talking to him and she said, Well, why don't you manage to come up and be a guide for summer? So he did. And he liked it and enjoyed it, made some money and got it got given the fish. And a tip for those days, the guest wouldn't keep the fish that there was really no, there was very little freezing facility. So there were Americans usually. So you were given the fish. And for $1, you bought a commercial license. So like the fish got sold to BC packers or Canada fish or somebody who had buying stations up there at quality SP Cove. And so after the for, I guess it was after the first year, and my dad had died in 1947. And I I'm thinking that Dick guy that that year in the following year was guiding again, I believe it was 48. He thought it would be a good idea to get me up to see the ways of the world. Because I was placed here with Mother Mother was thought her only duty left in life was to look after me and see that I was raised. And she'd had a very hard time dealing with my dad's death. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 47:40
just how old were you and your dad died 13.

Unknown Speaker 47:45
And he, he said to mother that he wanted to take me to Campbell River for the month of August. And was pretty good for you know, take your 14 year old little brother in year 23. And, and living it up and with all the other young guides having a good time. And he was saddled with me. But he was awfully good about it. Although he was supposed to be his Cook, because we would go he would go out early in the morning and get up about five. And it was turned out to be the worst August I'd ever think ever experienced it rained all the two days in the month of August. And we were in a tent on the ground. I didn't have a sleeping bag. I was in blankets and I'd roll out of them and I'd roll partway out of the tent. Dick had the sleeping bag. So when he left in the morning, I'd get into the sleeping bag. And I was supposed to be awake to have breakfast ready for him so and I'd be sleeping. I mean, he'd give me hell when he got in not too badly. Because he had to get going and get breakfast and then go out again. Yeah. Anyway, it was great experience for me. I loved it. And I was too young to go back and finish guiding I was too young to go back to get a job. So I had to wait it a couple of years. And then I got the job on the wharf.

Unknown Speaker 49:23
So how old would you have to be in at least 6017

Unknown Speaker 49:26
Maybe I went back 7017 I guess 17 and 18. And then I was 19 years old that guy did up there.

Unknown Speaker 49:40
They were a little off Saltspring. But nevertheless, when you you said you got this commercial license, so that means that you could sell your catch. Yeah. Well as you got paid to be a guide. And then you this was like a tip here. You're saying you you

Unknown Speaker 49:53
could sell this Yeah, it was. It can be really good. You know, for example, One day I cleaned a fish Riddick, which was over 40 pounds. And I was when I was 14 years old, I was given the job of looking after a doc at the time, it was the tight camp, which was the cheaper version of painters who was painters tidy camp, but there were little tiny cabins. And this dock and they had boats that they rented out to people. And my job was to clean those boats and, and basically look after the dark and I got paid nothing oh, maybe a couple of dollars a day or something for them. So this day, I'm cleaning the fish and I take it to rinse it off the water and drop it. Now watch this fish go down. I could see it on the bottom text and it killed me because it the fish would have probably, you know, probably yielded $10 which would have been really good money. And I I thought what am I gonna do and it was Tuesday but couldn't, how they gonna reach it. So I went and got a very thin sapling, trimmed it all up. Then I tied a gaff hook on it. And I reached this thing down before the crabs got. Like caught it by the gill and I pulled it slowly up to the surface and got it back onto the dock. So I got I don't think I told Derek that I'd done that.

Unknown Speaker 51:43
That was very ingenious. Okay, so that was later towards the time, you know, getting on to the time where you're finished school and everything, finishing school. But so back on Saltspring when you were you were going to school and you'd made some friends there and so what would you what would you did you tend to go home right after school or maybe an early days

Unknown Speaker 52:06
then there would be days? Yes. And I'd go home with the kids on the road. The Nelson boys and pack crib bat and Geraldine crabs. I forgot she was a younger sister button. Geraldine crabs. And Jackie and that was a kind of routine and I don't remember great, you know I don't remember a great deal about those years except they were it was a very happy time and I really love the the freedom that there was in the outdoors and so on and so forth. And I thought this life was good and

Unknown Speaker 52:56
and what is so maybe even if she got a little bit older you would be maybe I don't know if you go hang out and Ganges at all. But when maybe if you can tell me what the town was like, sort of in your

Unknown Speaker 53:05
well, kind of grubby?

Unknown Speaker 53:09
grubby why? Because of the there'll be muddy or the foil? Well.

Unknown Speaker 53:14
Yeah

Unknown Speaker 53:19
at that time when when Ganges was built, nobody cared too much about the waterfront. Water was a way of traveling, or fishing or something. But it didn't look, the view didn't take place. So mullets, that view. The Waterfront never did until we made it changed until later on. And everybody's sewage went into the harbor. Every house on the map, they all went in, or they went into the creek behind us, they'd have overflow from their septic tank into the creek. So that's the way it was now volumes weren't great. I mean, there was not a lot of activity there. So you can say well, I guess a little sewage is alright. But then of course later the school came when the the school went into the harbor directly. Right under where the Marina is there. Marina right. was just starting to cross the road in Florida and Jose from there. Yeah, that's right. It we it was the refund thing. So and I took piano lessons. I do remember that for Mrs. Croft and pet Croft. Ann's mother, Ruth Croft and family was big and they had harbor house as you know. And this is Crafton was the piano teacher. And I was never did particularly well, nor did Pat cropped and he took it. And then Bruce Gardner he. And I think she gave up on us have I forgotten by what grade I did manage to pass a few grades and piano and where were they living at that time they were living up on the Ganges hill. But then they moved down towards just behind where Kingfisher is now the that's where they were living

Unknown Speaker 55:32
in they had a fairly big house and they're done. Yeah, I can remember. Oh, so but when you took piano lessons with her, they were living on the other side of Ganges. They were

Unknown Speaker 55:42
looking up on the hill. Yeah. Do you remember what house that might have been? No, I don't know. I can't remember. But

Unknown Speaker 55:49
what other families do you remember living in town per se, like some of the older houses that are in there that?

Unknown Speaker 55:57
Remember the Goodmans? They were you know, where they were? up

Unknown Speaker 56:02
and behind where the coop gas? Yeah. And

Unknown Speaker 56:06
let's see who else I remember.

Unknown Speaker 56:11
Books A Bob rushes family and then with?

Unknown Speaker 56:13
Well, yeah, they were up on the hill, on the Ganges Hill. And I never Bob was four years older than I was. And he of course, they don't know what year they moved away. I'm sure he knows that when they left the island. But you did hear the story about him being my first. Well, I'm not sure if it was my first visitor but my visitor when I was born at lady mento Oh, no. My mother told the story. She used to delight in telling this that she was in the hospital. And she stayed in, I think it was, maybe it was a week or more. Because that was an opportunity for rest. And anyway, I guess the word got out the Toynbee baby had been born. So Bob rush, then four years old came over from his house to see me wearing only gumboots and no other clothing.

Unknown Speaker 57:23
Oh, he's heard that he's heard it. I've told him a number of times. And then the two. The two. Oh, thing on his 80th birthday was a long time ago. I told the story. Now the hospital

Unknown Speaker 57:37
then would have been the one up the hill. Yes. Just moved it. Just tell me where that would have been. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 57:43
it was the one of the hill which was the community society now. And that was another great community undertaking to build a hospital. And they had their own insurance plan. They had health insurance on the island.

Unknown Speaker 57:56
At the time when you were born? Yeah. Oh, really?

Unknown Speaker 58:00
It people paid so much a month or a year or whatever it was done. I'm not sure that all families did. And that covered you. And I guess it was for hospitalization. And I can't remember but Yvonne has the record of the bill for my birth. And it's very, very little because we were insured. And so so pretty, pretty progressive, considering the time Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 58:35
So the hospital was up the hill. It's just sort of go down the hill. And as you came down to the bottom of Ganges Hill says your town what would have been there and I'm talking.

Unknown Speaker 58:44
So the if you're the creamery, which is now MB bakery.

Unknown Speaker 58:48
Would you go there very often.

Unknown Speaker 58:51
I remember going there when my Uncle Arthur Drake, ran up. And my aunt person committed committed suicide as you're aware. And then she had then they had three sons, but my cousins, and they have a do remember the name of the housekeeper that was with them for years Miss Molyneux. And she ended up staying with my mother after a serious operation. And that was in the early 50s. Very early 50s, probably about 1950 because I was still home at that time, and we had both and Maggie, Maggie Manson who lived in with the tree houses now. She stayed with mother also. And sorry I think

Unknown Speaker 1:00:02
We're reback in the places over down there. Yeah, the Drake the MB went down. And then there were a series of little buildings and that I don't remember, too well, except there was the one for one that was wait were what was gasoline Alley is there was that was Mr. Oh, you know, McAfee, McAfee, his shop. And I could remember going there because we thought it was so neat the way he would have this Forge and heat up steel and bake things out of it. You know, he was a blacksmith that I remember quite well,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:45
so different than your father's. Your father was more of a machinist. He

Unknown Speaker 1:00:51
was a machinist. He would make no big parts. And I see

Unknown Speaker 1:00:55
McAfee was a blacksmith. Yeah. And it would have been all just forested land, I'm guessing all around

Unknown Speaker 1:01:04
that much forest because it was a big wetland there. Which, which unfortunately, I guess if you look back on it got filled in, or a good good part of it that that's what that was looked on as progress in those days. And in the end, the estuary of the creek. One time I'm sure supported, I think chum salmon.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:34
Do you remember playing in the creek there at all? Did you have a regular bridge over the creek as you came down the hill? Or how did that?

Unknown Speaker 1:01:42
Yeah, there was a I believe there was a bridge. I don't remember that. Well, I was pretty sure there was a bridge over the quick Creek. But I didn't know I didn't play there. And then the creek. We played on one over on Scott road off scott road or their long harbor road now. There was a dam had been created in there and then winter was Scott's pond was called Scott property. And we knew where it was and if it got cold, we would go into Scott's pond and skate. And the other place we the place we commonly skated was called kings flats. Which is you know Kings Road goes up on and we're you come off long harbor road and go down slightly and then the property on your right is that the flat area there with a garlic firm? Yeah. And there were trees then right up fairly close to the low land Thirdly is swampy land. And when we got cold weather that there was good shade there so the ice would build up fairly quickly on this shallow and of course we would had terrible hand me down skates that didn't fit. But that didn't matter. We were going to be the Toronto Maple Leafs we're going to be out there playing hockey. And we do it and do it and do it and then we started to thaw we'd stay later and later because we're gonna lose the ice cars.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:23
Oh, that's that's interesting to hear about people skating there. So was there an actual sort of ponderay there was it swampy and would

Unknown Speaker 1:03:30
it there were there was a pond but I do remember that. It would drain fairly quickly after the winter, you know? That's right.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:47
Okay, and then and then downtown. So there was the you know, the Ganges Creek and McAfee's garage and I think Bert

Unknown Speaker 1:03:55
button Betancourt's shell Shell station service station. That was that's where where the taco place is now or whatever it is today that was right there on that corner, the trading company building which was a compact competitor to mullets, and then bullets and and my dad shop the Ganges in and then a couple of outbuildings for the molds. And then of course there was the bay which we then we filled in later. But the restaurant that was later became Connecticut place and Jackie ran that was there and next door to it was Turner store. And it was all and the reason those buildings got built. I guess they got they got watered about leases. And they'd be a fragment of upland property. And so the, the, on the land side, the that would be your entrance over the upland property. And then the building was built on pilings. And I'm sure the lease cost a pittance. So in other words for this tiny fragment of land you could get to build a building. Oh, that's interesting. I do. The bay there were.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:26
And so just right Conoco, the what

Unknown Speaker 1:05:30
we looked at one of those photos done in moments. I could look at those with the and I could, you know, could resurrect a bit more memory. But

Unknown Speaker 1:05:38
I've heard about the Turner store before now some people have told me that the kidnapper building was the Turner store. But what I'm hearing is that you think there was two different I think

Unknown Speaker 1:05:46
it was two different I think so. And what what do you think what could be wrong

Unknown Speaker 1:05:52
with the original building was that the kidnapper was in them? If it was something else?

Unknown Speaker 1:06:01
Yeah, maybe my memory is faulty on that. I'm not sure. I'd have to look at the pictures. Yeah, well, we'll

Unknown Speaker 1:06:08
confirm it with some photos. That's good to know though. And then Turner's eventually moved over to the corner by by where the pharmacy is now.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:16
That's right. And that was owned by the Ramses rams. He's built that yeah, Turner's okay. They they didn't build it. Here again my memories. They are did they buy it? At the time though. I know that the grantees did own it. After a while I did operate it as Turner's and misses the Turner's did own it. They operated next to where the pharmacy is now.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:53
Remember like that. So there was a Turner family? Was it always like a clothing store that

Unknown Speaker 1:06:58
Turner dry goods as they called it in those days?

Unknown Speaker 1:07:02
All right. And then the park area was not filled in yet at that time. So that was all sort of beach and there was that? I don't know what you call that sort of tombola or something? I think yeah, that little strip of land that would go out to where Moe Watts was and the harbor and then on the inside of that mall. It's at one point had a lumberyard did they not like on the next to the trading company

Unknown Speaker 1:07:24
fields? Yes, that that that was there? Well, right up until we built on it. We operated as a lumberyard when when we bought it, and up until we operated it as such until 77. So quite

Unknown Speaker 1:07:43
some time before that particular piece of land. That's where the big Ganges and I'm not sure if it was called the Ganges hotel or whatever this is before. Yeah, of course Bullock has the big, the big hotel. And then after that, I guess it was vacant land after the hotel had burnt down. And do you think the next purpose of that land was then the lumbering lumberyard?

Unknown Speaker 1:08:04
I think so. But I don't I don't I'm a bit hazy on that as he goes away from left the island except for visiting coming back to visit mother left in 52. And didn't return those 71 of visits were made frequent visits, but

Unknown Speaker 1:08:23
mother, things change. And with the with the the Saltspring in the ships anchor in the ships in that building with that, when

Unknown Speaker 1:08:32
you were in a log cabin when I was a child, and it was

Unknown Speaker 1:08:35
it was a restaurant. And would your family ever go out to the restaurant for meals or the Harvard house or the

Unknown Speaker 1:08:42
I can't remember right occasionally going to harbor house special occasions or something? Yeah. Or maybe we might have gone to a can't remember go into the log cabin and particularly the one that the building that Jackie was called kaneka. Place was prior to that was gold, the white elephant. And I'm not sure if there wasn't another name for it along the way, but it was the white elephant.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:24
Okay, well that pretty much man Hall would have been there when you were a child. Of course. Most of the rest of the harbor down towards the harbor house would have been just vacant, much as it is now in a way.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:36
That's right for Kingfisher was it was the Degnan property. There was one house on it. Desmond deck then DG en en

Unknown Speaker 1:09:51
el segment and what about where the just trying to sort of do around to the harbor? What about where the Hastings houses now? What do you know of that property?

Unknown Speaker 1:10:02
Well, I I remember it took while I was in the in the property and into the house a couple of times, maybe more when I was in my teens, mid teens, early teens. And I do remember one night, one afternoon, we were fishing smelt. And I was with the Nelson boys and maybe pack crabs and fishing on the beach in front of the house on Churchill. And we did very well on the on smelting. So of course it couldn't, we couldn't eat them all. So we would give them away to the neighbors. And I do remember taking nice bunch of smelt. A couple of us went I'm not sure where the other one was, we went to the house and offered them to the Hastings and Warren, Hastings and Barbara. And they were very nice. And then they invited us to come in and look at the house. Which was we thought quite marvelous, was for his fireplace where you could get in and sit inside and so on. They were very nice. Anyway, they were very happy to get the smell.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:27
Just how did it how do you fish smell? How did you do that? And what time of year did that happen?

Unknown Speaker 1:11:33
It was we fished them, the ways that you're not allowed to use. Today we fish them with you could rake them up on the beach, could they come up to spawn or on the right a lot right at the shoreline. Sometimes they come right over the water. But you just take a rakes and you pull them up and then you'd stop them from getting back into the water. And or we were you could net them. And we had a net that that we'd purchased or was a safety net for herring. And which they had the benefit of letting the small ones would get through. There were smaller than the bigger, we'd go out and and we had Ted guardian, Ellison was the youngest. And he was a small kid. We put in the maple tree hanging over the beach, I think maple tree is still there, a little over the beach, pretty ancient. He'd get up and you could see down and you could actually see the school of cell smell moving. And they would go back and forth across the beach, back and forth. And then usually, maybe that might have been a couple of nights and then suddenly they'd all I guess they were right, and they would head for the beach. But when they were going back and forth, we would get Gordie and he would tell us when the fish then the smell or the far end of the beach over towards the point. Then we had a rowboat with the net piled in the stern. And we did two of us one would roll up as fast as we could and we'd make a V Okay. So a trap basically along with the fish would come along and guard guard he would say oh they're in the net or and then and then we'd pull in the line and one would throw gravel to make sure that they didn't come back out through to splash and so we say we'd never be allowed to do it today. But it was there was one good thing a little ones little get through. And

Unknown Speaker 1:13:56
that's an ingenious little system we came up with Did you inherit that system? Or did you voice Oh, we

Unknown Speaker 1:14:03
there was a two Greek fisherman a Greek background who had a little boat with Easthope engine. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, he used to call them to come from and they would come over from Sydney and they had a little sleeping accommodation in the stern and and an open hold in the front than they would come up with a smelt nap which they knit themselves a one did one half the other did the half. I mean there was quite a length of these that the hand tiny little little knots as you can imagine. And the that was put together and there was a bag in it where the fish accumulate and then they would put a safety net out around that. So we watched this procedure take place do you care into that area. They came to herb, Rose beach, and actually long harbor and the smell came to all those places.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:10
And do you remember the name of those people from Sydney?

Unknown Speaker 1:15:14
No, I never did. Like I think I could have Archie and Henry I think it was they went by English names.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:25
Do you ever remember I don't know the cycle the fish there. But did you ever remember hearing

Unknown Speaker 1:15:31
loads, loads. I can remember carrying know some of yours would be bigger than others, but I can't. But every year there seem to be a spawn that would take place right in front of the house. And everything was covered with spawn, and there were birds and the animals and everything feeding on the l was just a

Unknown Speaker 1:15:55
cacophony of oh,

Unknown Speaker 1:15:59
you could look up, we could look from the house. And you could just see those bottom was black. There was there were that many fish? are they responding?

Unknown Speaker 1:16:10
Did they come after the smelt? Remember? Oh, no. The smelt

Unknown Speaker 1:16:13
came in the fall September, October and they came March, February, March. And those days?

Unknown Speaker 1:16:23
Oh, that's interesting. Hearing. So didn't know. When's the last time you remember the hearing being in the harbor? Well,

Unknown Speaker 1:16:33
they came in the harbor until 1974. And that was the last major spot my knowledge any any reason that you I don't know, you'd have to ask Fisheries and Oceans and I don't know, they know. There was a very heavy gillnet fishing fishery on it. And then 74 And they were all the boat harbor was filled with a little little get a little carrying skiffs. And Johnny Christiansen actually built the fish plant on which is now Dr. Cami garden. And he built that and the idea was that he was going to process the role of herring roe for the Japanese market. And he one year the bought the row that worked and after that there was not any any significant Swan took place in the harbor.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:34
Good timing. Okay, well, I think that covers most of things unless you can think of anything else, particularly from your childhood. But there's one thing I wanted to come back to 1.0

Unknown Speaker 1:17:46
There were many, many things from from the childhood that I could tell you and what was as I got a little bit older, we had sports we played basketball and of course we got beaten terribly when we went off Island. We did our best efforts at track and field and, and went to the BC championships I had one highlight. I taught myself how to throw the shotput. And I wrote my book for Britain by Olympian on how to do it with pictures and so on. And ended up with number the bronze medal in the BC high school championships in Victoria, which was great fun. Girls first entered our lives quite a lot later than they do these days. But 1415 years old, we had a twin twin girls arrived here at The Children's don't twins. And immediately they were the boys suddenly discovered that there was something else in life other than playing. And they were great fun. They were actually not intimidating because some of the local girls, their mothers were keen on lining them up with prospective husbands later on and and we weren't into that sort of thing at that stage of the game. So these girls were good. They liked outdoor sports they'd like to softball and tennis and so on and so forth, though. Right away. The number of us would be wanting a date and a date was to go to the Rex Theatre, which was work well right beside oh, what's the The place on Mike Phillips there the orange. It was right next door was building, it was owned by the hen family. And and you could go to the show in the afternoon and I think it was 15 cents. And we we go Dutch and and get into the back room of the theater you see and try to sit with one of the children's stone twins or sometimes somebody else. And I remember one day sitting next to Barbara or Patsy and putting my arm around her and having another arm come around. It was Backdraft and was on the other side. And unfortunately the left the island and it was a tragedy for not that there was weren't some other girls here, but they just had a certain spark about them. And they were great fun. long were they here? A couple of years as I recall, golden years, they ended up going to the interior.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:04
And did you have school dances and things? Yes. Regularly, like you'd have several times

Unknown Speaker 1:21:11
a year I can't remember how many. And when when Mr. Food minister was away, and the army and before he was returned to actually do to be the principal. Miss Olson was the principal retold and she was really a wonderful woman. She liked to look try to look ferocious. But she does have a really kind heart. But when we dance she would ever eye on you to make sure he didn't get within that fire of your partner. I mean, there was very careful about touching no any No no, no no, no improper touching.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:57
But it was a good we had a good time a good time in school. So I have

Unknown Speaker 1:22:01
a good time. Right to school and I and and I just I just love the outdoor experience and then the the nature and then what it was it was in those days, it was just great fun for me. So the guiding upper Campbell River was just came naturally. That was That was fun. And I met an awful lot of people up there an awful lot of guests who were really nice people who who ended up being becoming friends later on in life as they were getting older but really influential

Unknown Speaker 1:22:39
people that you met that. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:22:42
there were two people from different backgrounds and various various industries and done a lot of things and it was a great learning experience. Because when I first well, well right up until I left, we did almost all our fishing out of 14 foot robots. And when I started there as the worst engineer or there were only three, there were 50 robots on the dock painters Lodge, all built by Ed painter, cedar lapstrake holes. Only three of them had outboards the rest the guys wrote out the mouth of the Campbell River, or you wrote across Claudia's Cove, Ross Allen. And so that was you know, you're you put in a day's day's work if you're fishing, and then it gradually evolved, we started to getting these little three horse Johnson or Evan Roos, and the dues that to get to the grounds to speed things up a bit, then tilt it up, go back to your rowing seat at the bow and your guests was facing a stern would be down behind you. And you fish, so it's quiet, it was lovely. And you'd be you know, you'd have your Luers down there hoping for a bite. But sometimes things are really slow. And so then you had to be a good conversationalist you have to be able to tell stories. And and, and in the same time your guests would tell you things about what they've done and experiences and so on and so forth. So we ended up developing the art of conversation with older folks. Older by, you know, something over 30 I guess.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:50
Yeah, that would be a good learning, learning experience for your person right to have that. That kind of one on one time, in an isolated kind of way. place. If you think of anything else, you know, just chime right in. But one thing I just want to come back to and before we end is you talked about camping up here. And I just want to if you've wondered if you could explain, you know, we're at the very north end of the island, right? You're sitting in your home. And how was it? You you you have this land your family have this land here? Yes. And I've been

Unknown Speaker 1:25:23
given to my mother as bad as I understand it. Given us by Uncle, old uncle, and I'm not exactly sure which uncle that was, but he did a subdivision out here. And this was at a time when, you know, there isn't a whole lot of demand to come to sell the point. I mean, that's the end of the earth.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:58
And so starting here and moving down there were mullet. Mother, brothers, brothers and sisters had property down the way here.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:14
And Uncle Gilbert, Blaze down the way which is still owned by my first cousin, Peggy Peggy Johnson. And being sharpened was just on the way that was his mother was Jean mullet. It was my first cousin. They had the property which was left to them, Bill mullet have done here. And all those years mother used to talk about the property owed here at Sally point. And on occasion when I was young. We would come out here on a Sunday afternoon. And we'd bring in for Charlie remember this one very well. That of course was you drove the road was so narrow that if you met somebody in a car, you had to find somewhere to drive off the road to be able to to get by. But I do remember coming home one day and we had the car full. And there was somebody walking, and dad stopped. And as I guess the person said, Oh, you're full and and I remember Charlie's saying no, this is no as art, but there's still room for the house. Remember that to this day. And so we'd come out here. And there was a lovely little beach. And what you can imagine was like and it was a lot of treaty, a lot of forest is right in here, which went down on the great storm of night about February 1972. And that's how this property got cleared for this great number of trees came down in late February 72. It's it's one of the great storms of all time. So I just loved this property and mother knew I did. And so when I said can we go out to the camp can go to camp. Okay, so he used to say we had the tent when we came out here, but that that period of time, so you had a rowboat, and we would roll out here to fish, a dropper rock and

Unknown Speaker 1:28:30
you and she would come out here and you just spend you said up to two

Unknown Speaker 1:28:33
weeks. It was yeah, we only did that one time that Yvonne and I when we were first married, we came out here and and camped out here. We made a tent frame and stayed out there. The tent frame lasted quite a long time.

Unknown Speaker 1:28:48
That's great. That's a real special place. Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:28:52
Mother was was not going to start with it. Somebody tried to buy up. I don't know. I think it was, well, not Well, long after dad died maybe a couple of years and I think was ready to pay or princely sum of $1,500 for it and and she wasn't going to he wasn't paying we know in those days. People look back on these things and say, Oh, no, that couldn't have happened. Yeah, no. Oh, yes. It could. The property was going for nothing. Just nothing. No, it's pretty

Unknown Speaker 1:29:29
special spot. So I think I've covered most of what I want to talk about. Was there anything else? You thought of anything else earlier that you wanted to touch on? Before we end?

Unknown Speaker 1:29:41
No, I I mean, I did enjoy a nice school days. And it was interesting that when when we finished when I finished grade 12 There were a lot of boys had dropped Don't to go logging. Because I've think that we're getting $2 An hour or 250, which was big money. Yeah. On the island here on the island. Well on the island mostly. And by Ben Manson actually carova Pearlman's and he came here after he'd finished Normal School, and Victoria, and he stayed at home, which was great help to mother after her dad having died, and I must say, I don't think I caused him any trouble. But he did have a rough time. That son was some of the kids that were not easy, not easy to handle that grade seven, eight, time is sort of baptism of fire. But he went from here, of course, over to a new way to do Elementary School. I were in Vancouver, and Western North and West Vancouver. Like I saw West Vancouver. But I've been going to university, which was interesting when I left here, we had a graduating class of 13. And I believe seven went to UBC I think that was correct. The seven of us. That's quite a rate to go on. Yeah, it was. And and I think all that as a goal got through as far as I know.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:30
But you'd said a lot of a lot of people had left school so you know, that you might have had a class of 20 say or

Unknown Speaker 1:31:36
Oh easily.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:40
And 13 graduated and went on to school where you went on tois who was

Unknown Speaker 1:31:47
Norman twice older sister when she was the leading light and she was the best student and she's, she's back here on the island now. She's married to Ted dogs. They both lost their partners and they've really they've married again a couple of years ago. I'd like to see them again. Maureen was a very very bright very good student. She ended up I think she was I believe the highest marks in southern Vancouver Island and

Unknown Speaker 1:32:22
we'll have that on the record. Yeah, and I think you were no slouch yourself at school you were no slouch yourself at slow

Unknown Speaker 1:32:29
I was not any I was not great I wasn't bad. Except the French and I got even worse when I went to university and French but otherwise I got by but

Unknown Speaker 1:32:42
you did go on to university and what did you graduate with your degree there

Unknown Speaker 1:32:46
be calm but commerce

Unknown Speaker 1:32:50
went out to to do business things but we won't we'll leave that for another time but okay, I think I think that pretty much covers it up you miss tell some great stories at

Unknown Speaker 1:33:01
the end of it. I can tell you there's so many stories to tell but we can

Unknown Speaker 1:33:08
or we can always we can always add you know, little chapters of stories because I think those are the kinds of things that paint the picture you can look at picture pictures of the town but we've got a verbal kind of description of something to go with it it gives it life you know, and it gives it gives you character a lot of people on Ganges are on Saltspring know you and know your name and but when you have these stories behind you, it flushes out who you are. Yeah, so no, I thank you very much for doing that. I really, really appreciate it. Well, thank

Unknown Speaker 1:33:39
you for doing it. Yeah, so we're

Unknown Speaker 1:33:41
happy to have it. Okay, I'll turn this off almost