369_Anna-Holtrecht_Kate-Roland_St-Pauls-Cemetery_2018.mp3

otter.ai

17.02.2024

no

Outline

Death and life at a cemetery walk.
• Unknown Speaker asks Frank to record a conversation, leading to confusion and disagreement among the speakers.
• Anna Contract, organizer of the walk, discusses the event's purpose and thanks attendees for coming.
• Kate Roland, storyteller, leads the group through the cemetery and shares historical information.

Hawaiian and First Nations heritage on Saltspring Island.
• Speaker reflects on the history of St. Paul's Church on Saltspring Island, built by First Nations and Hawaiian communities.
• Speaker 4 shares their family history, revealing their great great grandfather and other relatives were Hawaiian and lived in the Pacific Northwest, including Saltspring Island.
• The speaker's ancestors came to the area in the early 19th century as fur traders and homesteaded land on nearby islands, with some still living there today.

Family history and grave maintenance in a cemetery.
• Speaker 4 visits grave of great-grandfather William Connor, moved from original location.
• Speaker 4 shares stories of their ancestors buried in a cemetery, emphasizing the importance of remembering and honoring their heritage.
• William Connor's great-grandfather and daughter Mary Ann Peterson are remembered at a family gathering.

Indigenous identity and family history.
• Laga Bien, a Cree man who worked for the Hudson's Bay Company, had a family and lived in the area for over 30 years.
• Hawaiian women married to non-Native men often raised children on reserves but denied their non-Native heritage to maintain status.

Hawaiian history and land ownership.
• Smallpox and measles epidemics followed fur trade, killing 80,000 people in Hawaii within a year of Captain Cook's arrival.
• Speaker 7 mentions the history of the church and its connection to the First Nations and Hawaiian people.
• Speaker 4 discusses the history of the land where the church is located, mentioning the Malloy and McCoy families, as well as Horace Smith Shepherd, who gave the land for the church to be built.
• The speaker highlights the importance of preserving the names and stories of the Hawaiian people, including those buried in unmarked graves, and notes that many women had names that were not Hawaiian due to cultural influences.

Hawaiian ancestry and genealogy.
• Speaker 4 shares a photo of a gathering of Hawaiian people from 1885, with numbered individuals, and recounts a fun experience of recreating the photo with living descendants.
• Speaker 4's grandmother Matilda Roland had 16 children, including Lloyd who died at 21, and is buried in an unmarked grave in the area.
• Speaker 4 shares stories about their great-grandfather, Noah Connor, and the many Tony's buried in the family gravesite.
• Speaker 4 explains how the name "Tony" has been spelled and pronounced differently over time, leading to confusion about the correct spelling and meaning of the name.

Family history and cultural heritage.
• Speaker 4 shares stories about their great-grandmother Matilda, who was born on Portland Island and lived with Mrs. Ruckle.
• Speaker 4 wishes they had met Matilda, who was known for her curly hair and ruled her kingdom with a big wooden chair and walking stick.
• King Kamehameha I of Hawaii formed alliances with British and American fur traders in 1811 to establish trade posts in the west.
• Within 10 years, missionaries arrived in Hawaii in 1821, marking a significant cultural shift.
• Speaker 4 describes how the arrival of missionaries and the subsequent division of the community into different religious groups led to the displacement of some Hawaiians, who preferred the seasons and cultural traditions of their homeland.
• Speaker 4's family and others in the community would host annual luaus on Jackson's Beach, inviting the community to join in the celebration, including their quadriplegic uncle Paul, who was carried to the beach on the shoulders of his brothers.

Family gatherings, genealogy, and travel.
• Elders reflect on changes in family gatherings and church services over time.
• Speaker 4 shares stories about their family's genealogy and history in Hawaii.

Hawaiian language and culture.
• Speaker 4 discusses the history of the Hawaiian language, including the loss of the letter "k" and the influence of European settlers.
• Speaker 7 explains the TK shift in Polynesian languages, including Hawaiian, and how it occurred around the time of Hawaiian settlement.
• Speaker 4 shares stories of their family's cultural heritage and traditions, including the use of Kukui nuts for lighting and swimming across the water to reach Jackson rocks.
• Speaker 4 describes building rafts and using tools to catch crabs on the beach.
• Speaker 4 also discusses the Hawaiian government offering land for preemption to free traders, with the requirement of developing the land within five years.

Family history and cultural heritage.
• Great great great grandfather James Murray Yale and his daughter Amelia Yale Manson are recognized on a brick in Victoria, BC.
• Speaker 4's mother kept her birth parents a secret, even after discovering their identities later in life.
• Speaker 4's mother did not want to find her birth parents, despite having a brother and sisters who knew about her.
• Speaker 4 shares stories about their family, including the passing of a sibling.

Unknown Speaker 0:00
And I

Unknown Speaker 0:19
think don't

Unknown Speaker 0:55
know if it gets to a part where you can go and be the recorder and I'll take it along and you can listen to it later and stuff with you so

Unknown Speaker 1:11
yeah yeah

Unknown Speaker 1:29
Frank

Unknown Speaker 1:38
what is it what is it show me Do you want to just hold it

Unknown Speaker 1:48
hold it it would be okay but

Unknown Speaker 1:52
take a picture and then I'll come

Unknown Speaker 2:07
back I don't know who all nor normally you know because you remember do you guys say oh no yeah

Unknown Speaker 2:15
it's like what the hell are you

Unknown Speaker 2:48
Lonnie WikiWiki

Unknown Speaker 3:05
Can I grab the camera

Unknown Speaker 3:29
How are you okay

Unknown Speaker 3:36
what do you want me to do I just hold it just like this okay

Unknown Speaker 3:50
you want me a Frank

Unknown Speaker 3:51
Oh boy

Unknown Speaker 4:00
okay

Unknown Speaker 4:06
blackmail I guess yeah

Unknown Speaker 4:10
okay

Unknown Speaker 4:17
okay all right so

Unknown Speaker 4:22
are you gonna crash over yeah Josie

Unknown Speaker 4:37
a Whistler. Okay, thank you so much for coming. Come in come in. So we don't have to yell too loud. So thank you very much for coming today. And I'm saying whoever was in charge of the weather. I've been praying for all week. Thank you. Thank you all Right, because it is a glorious day for a walk in the cemetery. So my name is Anna contract, and I do the dance outreach work and community engagement for art spring, and made NBC dance on tour. And I stretching myself not to just do dance oriented things, but to do things about life and death. And part of that is coming to the cemeteries. So this is our fifth annual Walk that we've had, that I've organized. And we've gone through all the cemeteries, and this one was one of our last ones. In the past, Dave Phillips has been our storyteller. But he told me that he didn't know enough about the people. He said he knew a few of the people. But he told me, Kate, you got to contact Kate and Kate, Kate Roland, who is right here. And so I did. And she said, Yes. And I'm thrilled that she's here today, to lead us to this interesting, historical part of, of the island. And I'm sure that's why you're all are here. I just do want to give my appreciation to Father Scott, who said, yes, please come and walk through the cemetery, and also again to artspring and made NBC dance on tour. And I also want to let you know that I also host the death cafes, and we're having a death Cafe today, a little bit later than usual at three o'clock at art spring. So you are all welcome to come to that for a couple of hours about talking about death. And it's a discussion about death. And it's led by you, led by the participants. It's a part of a global movement called Deaf cafe. And also, while I've got all your intention, it's great to have all your attention. So I'll just say one more thing. And it was Tara Cheyenne, who is a dance dancer and actress from Vancouver. She was the instigator to get me going on all of this walks and talks. And she's here this coming week at art spring. She's doing a workshop and the high school workshop for the community and her performances Thursday night at art springs. So that's my little plug in there that I just had to sneak in. So thanks again for coming out and kick it over.

Unknown Speaker 7:36
Well, thank you. Thank you, Alan, thanks for inviting me here. We, as a family. My brothers and sisters and I have come to this graveyard every year, once a year to check out the dearly departed, knock the moss off the headstones and make sure everybody's where we left them. So this is this is not new to me to do this. This church St Paul's is the oldest church on Saltspring. A lot of this information you can find on the Saltspring archive site. It is the oldest church it was built between 1880 and 1885. A lot of the stained glass and the doors and the bell those are things came from the little butter church over in Duncan area. That church was not being utilized. So they they brought it over by canoe to Burgoyne Bay and brought it by oxen and stone board here and a lot of that is where this church has come from. St. Paul's It was built by the First Nations people and the Hawaiian community. Here it was the hub of their community here in Fulford, a lot of them had homesteaded around here, mostly the Hawaiian men married into the First Nations women and had their families here. So this was their community. St Paul's Church the WHO WAS IT father Don killing Gustaf gun Dawn killing was the the reference here that time what can I say about this church? First Nations if we lived away from the road we might I don't know how far away from the road can we get we'll try and be tolerant of the traffic

Unknown Speaker 9:29
the First Nations we didn't know too much about our First Nations connections here on the solid. Our great grandmother's were first nations women. Their names were lost their their family names were lost. They were given English names we had any Fisher and Catherine Brown, but you can't trace those families with those names. We need their their first nations name so we don't know much about it. My cousin Fred, his mother is from couch and area HK Camino and he uh he told me how to greet people in Hong Kong museum so I can do that at least for you. And it is each oil cmte it that's Welcome friends and family. I would like to learn more about my my first nations roof but it's it's, it's not going to happen today. We do identify a lot more with our Hawaiian roots because we just know more about them. The Hawaiians lot of people don't realize that the Hawaiians came here to this coast. Very early on in the 19th century. They came with the British and American fur traders to set up the fur trade here. Of course, the Hudson's Bay Company had been plying the fur trade in the east for centuries before they got here to the west coast. So they, my great great grandfather now kind of arrived at Fort Vancouver, which is the mouth of the Columbia River. In 1811. He worked his life down there, his son William is the one of our family members that got to hear. He worked for the Hudson's Bay Company. Also in the first trade. He worked out of Fort Victoria fort Langley fourtner Squale, New Caledonia, which is the Kamloops area. He, they sent them wherever they needed them to work. He ended up his last years on San Juan Island. And when it became like when it ended up on the other side of the border, if you will, a lot of those Hawaiian people moved up to the Canadian side. And they preempted land here on Saltspring, mostly on the south end of this island. That's why this became their their community. My great great grandfather, great grandfather, pardon me, William no kinda. homesteaded land on Portland island with another one of the Hawaiian people John Paul out. His daughter Matilda, my grandmother, she came here to Salt Spring and lived at Isabella point out just there. And David still lives there today. I think we've been there over 100 years. I think we're the last Hawaiian people are of Hawaiian descent on Salisbury I think the rest of them all have moved on and do not live here anymore although they do come back often. So this church well why don't we head on over and take a look at the grave over here. This is my great grandfather William now Connor is over here

Unknown Speaker 12:30
chapter came yesterday

Unknown Speaker 13:09
know my walk and sit

Unknown Speaker 13:19
don't like ground

Unknown Speaker 13:44
make sure all the stonework is good and the boy Chester?

Unknown Speaker 14:15
Going this this part of the cemetery was this was moved here. Gosh, I was gonna look that up to I think it was moved in the 60s, maybe 67 seems to ring a bell. All these graves were or not all of them. Some are newer, but were moved from by the church to here. My great grandfather here. This the smallest stone over there against the fence and this big tall one is his daughter, Marianne, they were over there and they were moved here at that time because they wanted to move the road. The road was unsafe, I guess so they wanted to move them so they were moved here and a lot of these people were removed also but there's some that are that are are new to hear since that move in 67 I always greet my grandfather so I will do that. So just bear with me well ComicCon not poor old no kind of mocking me a million miles away aid O'Connor Oh go ha ha lo hace lo ha No. What I said there was we the friends and family of no Kana come to visit and to see look upon us graciously with love. This is my great grandfather here. We do come and take care of our graves. As I said in the church. There's there's people here at the church it used to be Emily Hepburn was much involved with with caring for the heritage grave sites. And we appreciate that. And obviously, there is some work done here. It can get overgrown pretty fast. A lot of them are sort of sliding the hill, but this this is some of the old cemetery here for sure. The patent burgers, there's patent burgers buried here. Patent Berger was he was German. He was from varia came here and married First Nations woman from Cooper island. So Lillian papen burger is very here with her husband Wilf kitchen. And that was one of their sons that I was talking to earlier today. There how I don't know how many I wish she was still here. I think there was about 12 children in the kitchen family. So Lillian papen Berger married Wilfred kitchen, their family's here. I think there's some Mark hots here. Some of the names I'm not sure of Courtney, Courtney and Christina and Courtney I do not know who who this one is. But we need to speak the names of our departed people. It keeps them alive. It reminds us of who we are and where we came from. And acknowledges the fact that our lives were built on the foundations that they laid you know, we we just need to pay respect to our people and so we do we come and make sure that that everybody's okay. I don't know if there's any other names here or the kings are here. Kings are an old time. family that lived out beaver point.

Unknown Speaker 17:46
Is there some lumley's here? No, no, the lumley's are over at the little brown church over there. I'm sure they're there. Okay. So this is I don't know what else to say about this. This part. This is this was all moved here. This was all new. It's all heritage. Now, but my family here at this spot is my great grandfather William now kinda arrayed against the fence. And his daughter Mary Ann and her husband Louis Peterson. Here we try and hang pictures so people can you know, see who they are. If you want to come and take a look at the pictures that we hung there the weather beats them up pretty bad, but we change them when they get too bad. Is it an Anglican Church? This liquor This is Catholics Catholic? I think the brown one over there. Why the hell I think that's Anglican, or United, no Anglican. Gonna tell us some stories of your grandfather. My grandfather. Great Grandfather is William now Connor. He they call them like Amin and Uncle Paul we thought it was becoming LIC K, and E and EN. And he thought it was a whole. No an Indian name that they gave him that meant friend where he came up with that, I don't know. But when I looked through the Hudson's Bay records, he was known as laga bien el apostrophe GIMNG A M I N E. And I looked up the translation for that. It looks very French. But the French translation is more like a little girl or a child. I'm guessing it was probably it should look. Should look language was a mix of Hawaiian English, French, what it was all mushed together. It was a trade language so that everybody could communicate. So like the mean, I'm not really not sure what it is. It could have meant like Like Son or young person. So like a mean now kind of would be son of no canal, maybe that's what he was known as he works. GE, from 1845. He's started with the Hudson's Bay Company and worked with them until 1870s. And that's when they preempted Landon moved here. We don't know anything of his family's before. The girls that we knew when he moved here from San Juan, he brought his existing family. And there was five or six girls, and one son. And his last daughter was our grandmother, Matilda, and he had her when he was about 68. And the oldest girl, we knew Sophia, he would have been 44, I think when he had her, when you look at the dates and line it all up, do the math. So from 44, from from his early years before, he was 44 years old, we have no idea he could have had like, usually, when they spent three years contracts at the different forts they were sent to, they often had a wife and family there, then in three years, they would send them off somewhere else, they would have another family there. So he's probably got lots of family around here. They, they all did that it wasn't just a thing that the Hawaiians did, it was encouraged that they go out and make nice with the Native people, you know, keep them keep everybody happy. They call them country wives. And I don't know the percentage, many of these men went back to their homes, whether it was back to England, or to Hawaii, or wherever they came from. And they left those families here. Usually those women would raise their children on reserve, or somewhere close to the fort where where their fathers were. But they basically got absorbed back into the Native community. And many of them today still don't. They either don't know or don't want to acknowledge that their father was from Scotland or from Hawaii or whatever is a few years back, it was because they would lose their status. If they if they weren't if their blood wasn't full First Nations, then well, well, then your take your card away. So a lot of them denied that. From the traffic. And I'm talking this way. Hard. Maybe we should head over to the other church to that little graveyard over there. Who's

Unknown Speaker 22:31
their Hawaiian status? Say they lose their first nations? Yes, but what about the Hawaiians? Well,

Unknown Speaker 22:37
there really is no Hawaiian status and the Hawaiians because we I say that we relate more closely with our Hawaiian roots is because there was no definition. They said, Oh, you're Hawaiian, good. Your family come home. The First Nations people, we were not Indian enough to be Indian. We were not white enough to be white. So it was sort of like in that no man's land. You know, but the Hawaiians always accepted us. But whether you had a drop of white blood didn't matter.

Unknown Speaker 23:15
A lot of women or a lot of don't want to just say women, a lot of them died very young. They lived a hard life, a lot of them died in childbirth.

Unknown Speaker 23:43
missed that last part of your talk? You're at the wrong place. Were there any sort of epidemics that came through Saltspring that

Unknown Speaker 23:50
I don't know, specifically to Saltspring but there was a lot of smallpox and measles and stuff that followed all of the the fur trade? Sure, you know, in Hawaii, the the explorers that landed there, Captain Cook. I think it was his third exploration into the Pacific area where he finally ran into Hawaii. And just discovered why right? I always say he discovered people live there. killed. He was yes, he ran afoul of the local people and they dispatched

Unknown Speaker 24:33
Sandwich Islands.

Unknown Speaker 24:34
He did one of the URLs after they had first contacting way I think within the first year that was 80,000 people got approved smallpox. There's always this topic that I've heard of. I've read it in the history books where a lot of times they deliberately being blank

Unknown Speaker 25:07
just get rid of that horrible. It's horrible. But I've heard of it.

Unknown Speaker 25:13
Knowing how life goes sometimes those in power, they don't always get. To me choices are

Unknown Speaker 25:21
well, that's the whole story of the Hawaiian Islands. The whole modern story, you

Unknown Speaker 25:27
know, maybe I should go up there and then

Unknown Speaker 25:30
stand up on the ground

Unknown Speaker 25:39
now I can reach more voices with more ears

Unknown Speaker 26:06
okay

Unknown Speaker 26:12
if you come on down here, she'll be able to talk to us a little easier, right?

Unknown Speaker 26:16
Yeah, you guys, you guys are gonna be up there you won't hear and then you'll say I can't hear you

Unknown Speaker 26:27
this little portion of the church hasn't changed a lot. If you look at some of the old photos again on the archive site. There used to be a fence that ran long down here. There used to be called the rectory. Where were the priests would live. There's a shot. I think it's on the archives from that road looking this way. And you see the church and the rectory out on this side. But mostly this has not changed a lot. They did change the road. I don't remember where it went before. I think it really looked around. It was it was a dangerous thing but stupid. They had to move people. This plaque lives here. I believe it was dedicated to the people, the First Nations and the Hawaiian people who built this church. on it it says oh Malka, l o n e Kapono. That is a Hawaiian model. They adopted that after King Kamehameha the third spoke those words after the British the British have started paying and tried to take over the Hawaiian Islands. And we're going back to Queen Victoria and she says on them I'm gonna give it back to them leave them alone. So he spoke those words will Malka air oak Kapono, which means the life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness. So you take care of the land, you preserve it in righteousness. And that's what is is written on this plaque. They want to there's many many graves that are unmarked here. A lot of the markers were little wooden crosses, so they just decayed over the years. I think when they moved the road, they they misplaced a lot of the markers and names. So they do want to and there has been some talk about making one big plaque with the names of the people that they know are interred here, but have no marker anywhere. And a lot of those are the Hawaiian people. A lot of them have names like my great aunt was Julia know Connor, but her married name was Jamison. So you see this word? Julia Jamie Cindy has a wound. That doesn't sound Hawaiian with a lot of the women of course, had had names that were not Hawaiian. In the end. The shepherds were Hawaiian people. The shepherds were of the Malloy family. The McCoys lived out there on Russell Island. Mariah Malloy lived for a while at Beaver point, but she she inherited or came by Russell island from William Howe Mayer. I don't know their connection. He was not her father. Maybe she cared for him in his older years, but he owned it first and then she she raised her family there. So that's the shepherds in the voice. The fella that gave the land for here at one point they said our great grandfather William no kinda gave this land for this church. He did not he owned land out Isabel point A. This land was given by Horace Smith Shepherd, believe he was English, married to a First Nations woman that they called Mary and you'll see a lot of records if you look into the archives and stuff. A lot of the women are named Mary because they didn't know how to spell or pronounce their Indian name. So they will call you Mary. So it was Mary he she was first nations and she was Catholic, and he gave this land for this church to be built. And as I said it was built by the Community of Hawaiians and in First Nations, there's a picture again, in the archives. It shows it looks like it might be a wedding because there's, there's a bunch of women over here and a bunch of wood there. And there's one man that sort of in amongst all the women, and he's standing there, like he's got the Putin Euro. It looks like he's been shot. I think, I think it might have been his wedding day. And someone thought that it might be a Mahanoy wedding, what was her name Mary Jane Roberts. But I'm not 100% sure that I do recognize some of the faces in the photos. And I've been able to identify some of them. A few years back, I saw Christine here somewhere, taking pictures, we we came here to this church, and we did a talk of the Church and its history. And I told my family had sent this picture of that gathering of that day in like 1885, or something. And I told everybody, I said, Okay, when when everybody moves on to the next church, I want the Hawaiian people, our family to stay behind. And I sent them this picture, and I numbered everyone in that photo, and set told you your number 13, your number 12, your number 24. So when everybody goes, I said go and stand in that spot. And we recreated that photograph of, of, of our family today. And I believe Frank and I believe it's on the website and he had it so that you saw the old photo and then it would go to can fade out and would fade back into vs. It was great. That was a lot of fun that day. I believe there's a lot of people in this area that were in unmarked graves. So I do hope that they can put up that plaque someday with all those names as the missing people who are interred here. Over here, these two graves and I remember this when we were kids coming out the doors and it seems like the church is a lot higher now like the little paintings just because I was a kid. But these two right down here are my grandmother Matilda says Matilda Roland her maiden name was del Khanna and her youngest son Lloyd, who died when he was 21. Matilda our grandmother had 16 children. And all of them were raised out there at Isabella point. Our dad everybody called him Jack. His name was Harry Harry Lawrence rollin. He was the 13th of the 16th. So he he had an older brother. His nickname was Shealy. They called him she Peterson he was raised by the lady's the lady on the headstone over at the other place there, Marianne. His auntie, my father never knew him. Never ever met him his oldest brother. I always thought that was just so odd. How could you not have met a brother or sister but the families were so large and in by the time dad was born number 13. Chili or whose real name was Ernest was long gone, he was probably working. So and he went to Washington State and he lived his life there and he died there. I've been able to track down some of his family. But they they're there and he named he had a son and a daughter and he named them Albert and Viner. And those were two of his sisters. So he named him after his brother and sister so made it easier to identify that Yeah, that's probably family there's a lot of Tony's buried here to Honi their family name Hawaiian name was not one but they also said it was Kahana no ha No, that name really got changed around and I don't know why and in the end it became to how many tho you any why they've spent many years trying to figure out how that change came. My great grandfather, his name was Noah Connor. And on his gravestone it says now can n o w k i n because it's phonetically how they would hear it. And the least that makes sense to me know Connor now can but now wanna to towny they came up with the TI TI was the ancient language. The Hawaiians didn't have ks back in the the old days it was was T's so but this was long since then. So I'm that that one's always been a mystery to me. But that the how many graves are down there. It's like a double gravesite there beside that, I think is a holly bush. So they they did put a plaque on their lot of the young Tony people, babies died as babies. And if you look at it, there's a I think it gives the 1922 as the date of the death it's gone. All of them dead on in 1922. So that was wrong. I don't I don't know who was responsible. I think it was one of the townies themselves. They just the mother Eva, Tony was my dad's sister, Eva Harris. She did die in 1922. And I think one of her that her baby died with her, but the others were 234 years old. Unfortunately, that was a mistake. There is a plaque appear on this side of church that speaks a bit about the history. I can't remember when that was put there. But it's it's an interesting history this little church it is the oldest church on Salt Spring. And I'm I'm I'm proud that my family is here. Now, are there any questions?

Unknown Speaker 35:51
Did you know my children? I

Unknown Speaker 35:53
did not. She died in 1953. I wasn't born till 1956. My oldest older sister Leona remembers her. And my oldest sister afterwards passed now remembered Matilda, but they were stories of her. Matilda she was she was about five feet tall, very short, and she was about five feet wide. And she was just this she ruled the roost. She mom said my mother said that she had this chair, this big ol wooden chair that she'd sit in. And she had a walking stick with a big knot on the top of it. And she just jumped on bound the floor and bark orders. Harry, well dig those potatoes. Laura put the kettle on, such as just and just commanded her kingdom wherever she was. I would have loved to Xena she had curly curly hair. Oh, I really wish I had met Matilda. When she was young. They were she was born on Portland on she was the only one of my great grandfather's children. That was born here in Canada. The rest were born on San Juan Island. So it wasn't the United States back then. But it is now. She was born in Portland Island. And when it's time to go to school, she used to roll across to Beaver point. But when the weather was crampy it was she couldn't go. So that's I think when they they decided to try and move closer to Saltspring she lived a lot of time with boarded with Mrs. ruckle. And then she would go to school from the reckless place Mrs rankled taught her to knit and and do all sorts of things. Because Matilda never didn't. Her mother died at childbirth. And so she was raised by her older sisters. So she knew she had a mother figure but she didn't have a mom. And I think Mrs. Ruggles sort of took that place for her teaching her how to knit and stuff. And it was Matilda that eventually moved and got the land across the harbor. That David still lives there today.

Unknown Speaker 38:02
idea why you want Hawaiians decided to leave life?

Unknown Speaker 38:06
Well, in the 18 1811, is when my great great grandfather came here with the first fur traders. In 1810, the year before was when King Kamehameha not discovered. It was the sovereign kingdom of Hawaii at that point, he had been fighting the islands and trying to get them all under his rule. And he did that in 1810. He did that with the help of the British and the Americans who were had been in Hawaii since 1778. For the Brits, and 1789. For the Americans. They know this this young warrior coming a man is trying to be the boss of everybody and they said well we can help you. We got guns. You know the other the rest of them are going in with their swords in their their big clubs with the shark's teeth on they're fighting hand to hand. Well, the Americans and the British say well, we'll teach you how to how to win Moors. So with their help, Kamehameha won one over the islands. And so now he's had these people in his life for 30 years. They asked him Can we can we take some of your men to help us establish these Fairtrade posts up in the west and can make a man was driven by adventure and just the need to know more about the world, the maritime communities that were coming to him in Hawaii, he wanted to know what was out there. So he started sending these people. And so they left on in that regard, but by the time they started to go back, they do work about a three year contract, they'd go back that could be sent again. It wasn't that's like oh, I'll go you were chosen to go by the king at that point. And they had to pay these guys to work for For the fur traders, but within it was 1811. So within 10 years 1821 is when the missionary sort of hit in Hawaii. Up until then it was mostly just the explorers and there was the, you know, measles outbreaks of measles and things that that sort of, you know, took a hit on the population there. And then when the missionary showed up, and it all started to get sorted, divided into located, you got to know there's the Catholics and the Anglicans and stuff. So there was so much going on back there, that when the Hawaiians came here, and then go home, and like people are dying because of the disease and, and now, our whole system that we grew up with the news changed, you know, and so they it was pretty, pretty easy to stay here. You know, they were gainfully employed. They had families here. So So they stayed a lot of people think, Oh, well, who'd want to stay here because it's so beautiful and warm in Hawaii? Well, I kind of think they ended they liked the fact that there were seasons. You know, I think that's ceremonies used to have on the beach here. For years we had luaus here. Our family and the boys, the shepherds who lived up the hill from us and all cannons, we used to have them down off our beach. Every year in August, we would have a look but a three day event. There's eight of us in my my family eat brothers and sisters and five of us are born in August. So so we would have this big party, it was like a birthday party. But we would we were we were dad's dad was the chief and we were the Indians. And he tell us go didn't clams go fish, we collected all the food. And we had these parties, and we invited the community. And then we started to move them up here used to call it Jackson's beach. And I've asked a few people who is Jackson. And I think in the preemption records, it shows he preempted land there, but I don't know who he was. But we call that Jackson speech. And then we'd have our our luaus there. And again, it was two or three day affair, you just stayed there. Our Uncle Paul was a quadriplegic, he was, you know, a seated position. And, and we use, the brothers used to pick them up like a log and carry shoulders, and they drag him down to the beach and find a stump to set them on and he would sit there and in party with us, and it was three days, it was too much to drag them back and forth to him. So we just put, like, keeping, keep him close to the fires stay warm. And the rest of us would just sort of come and go. And then three days later, we'd sort of rub your eyes Okay, time to go home anymore. It's not as much we still have family gatherings because lord knows our family is big enough that we you know, to invite the community in and Dallas is a big thing but times have changed you know, it's we used to as I said, we dug all the plans and we fished and we hunted there was venison you know, we put it on now it's just way too expensive to do those things and then you're you're stuck with security, you have to have security you have to have fire marshal stuff in permits. Like I still sometimes go down to get a grab and go I don't have a license because I'm not used to having to have a license. But no, we we still do gatherings but it's it's not as often and it's it's always like yeah, now it's sort of like all the cost and the you know, and it'll be an afternoon it's not a three day event anymore. I think the younger folks could still do a three day event but I couldn't do it we're gonna try hard about the church went when did the stone facing 1973 97 It used to be all white white board or what I don't know I'm just not well it was yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it wasn't shingles or anything. It was like boards and I think it hasn't changed a lot. But they did put that I can't remember what they used to call that. Obviously you know, I never liked it them and I'm still not a fan of that. People think it's a stone church. But it is not that's that's just

Unknown Speaker 44:55
regular services. I think there is

Unknown Speaker 44:58
quite My husband and I try to come down

Unknown Speaker 45:03
on Sundays it's it's an eight o'clock in the morning, so you go to bed early.

Unknown Speaker 45:09
But it's just you know, it's a church that I grew up in. So we try to come down as we can. It's very small. There's not many that come. I wish more would come but

Unknown Speaker 45:20
to make reference to the Hawaiian shirt. Yes. And Father,

Unknown Speaker 45:24
where's our I gave him shells when he first came. He's

Unknown Speaker 45:27
very new here. He's been here a couple of years, I think. Yeah, so when he came like he can shells and every

Unknown Speaker 45:45
question over here. Relative

Unknown Speaker 45:53
Yes, I've gone to Hawaii every year, at least one sometimes two, three times since 1980. I had an auntie Mary who know kinda who lived in Kailua, which is across the island from Waikiki. Over the Polly saw her for years, she passed a few years back and her son whom I kept in contact past a few years after that. Now I have a cousin on the Big Island and our family. She's she's a she's an actual genealogist. I'm sort of like an armchair Jean. She went took the course and knows how to do all this stuff. She's in a little town called Hanukkah Hanukkah, Rory Ullman is her name. And it's sort of halfway between Hilo and Kona. So, okay. Then, you know, yeah, she she lives there. And I go, and I've, I've spent quite a few weeks with her going through the genealogy and she's placed our family at quite High Harbor on the Big Island. It's called a district but it's sort of like it's sort of halfway between Hilo and Kona.

Unknown Speaker 47:21
You mentioned that in the language, there's no K. a tease.

Unknown Speaker 47:26
In the ancient language, the Hawaiian sort of came out of Fiji and Tahiti and Tonga, and they had teas like, and it was changed to cake. So now you don't see teas at all. In the Hawaiian language. Sorry, cannot spell Tanaka Tanaka. Yeah, Tangata is is Maori. Tangata is man. Hawaiian is Kanaka. Hawaiian like an ancient Hawaiian we see now. Oh, no, no. Ta Hello, me Tahlequah. Hey, Lily, who are No you're not kannaway Oh, in tow, er, no, er T. That's Hawaiian. Where's today they will change that to Kahiki Maya Tahiti mine. And that was just a greeting. You know, this is this is the site for which I have long

Unknown Speaker 48:23
European influence. Um,

Unknown Speaker 48:28
I think it was when they were writing it down. Like, you know, you're speaking the language to and what you're hearing and what you're recording are two different things. So why it was changed to K? It was T's and ours originally, and now it's Ks. And else else? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 48:45
the T K shift is pretty much around the world. That's a shift that happens a lot the same way that r and l do. Yeah. I think that the TK shift happened right around the time they came to Hawaii or very early on? Yeah, it's my understanding. Europeans know, right around the time that the Hawaiian people came to Hawaii, it was

Unknown Speaker 49:03
cohesions. You see, they were all Polynesian. But the Hawaiians the language just changed.

Unknown Speaker 49:11
There's something we're like the second or third wave that came on and talked about and then went back talking about how they talked funny or something, you know, because of those sorts of shifts. I mean, when you when you separate yourself from a population, right, those sorts of shifts that have happened become more ingrained. So I think, I think it was fairly early down. Did you find the speed?

Unknown Speaker 49:29
No, no, we didn't. My grandmother and me see No, no, because they worked here and they were really associated with this coast. They spoke chin up, which was that mix of language. So we never learned our First Nations language or our Hawaiian language. I've learned that in the last few years and it's it's a tough goal learning a new language when you're over 60 years old. I don't have the the brain cells I used to have when I was younger, but No, we never learned that we didn't learn a lot of the customs Well, mostly the First Nations customs we lost all of that. But Grandma, you know that the whole luau thing was we didn't know it was a luau. We just it was just what the family did once a year. You would lose I was just like people go to potlatches what have you so anything we've learned of our of our customs and heritage and stuff has been long after the fact. The old folks know we just we had gatherings family gatherings, but it was It wasn't history related at all. What are the significant conditions? Oh yeah, it's a lay is just like a necklace. You know, these Kukui nuts. This is this is called Kukui. Kukui means light. They used to use these they're very oily, and they would drill holes through them and string them and then light it at the bottom like a wick and it would burn it would cast off some heat but it would light their their hearts at night.

Unknown Speaker 51:22
does the same thing. They're queuing up but they're not a polished

Unknown Speaker 51:31
Yeah, you can probably buy them here. The Chinese make them out of plastic now. You can find them anywhere. The family nuts

Unknown Speaker 51:48
they told me to swim across from Isabella to Jackson rocks, right? Yes. The whole family would have family swimmers. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 51:55
Oh, yeah. We learned to swim right at the beach down there. I remember one time I got had one of the inner tubes, the car inner tubes, and an umbrella. And I sailed up here for dog. I couldn't figure out how to tack back. And I had to walk all the way back around. Roll my tire. Yeah, we always were building. Yeah, building rafts and lashing them together with whatever you can find on the beach set sail. Sometimes they fall apart. Did you used to catch crabs, crabs? Yeah, you can feel them with your feet and then just pick them up. But if you needed a tool, any kind of branch like that had a thing or a fork or shovel. They'll grab a hold of it. So if you can, if you can scoop them underneath and sort of lift them off. They'll they'll build grab hold. And they'll they'll pinch welcome home for dinner. Yeah, queen, my dad used to have something called the queen. And it was a long pole. And it had like a like a basketball hoop wire. And the the netting that was in it was wasn't deep, it was just sort of like, like the bowl. And he used to use that. But again, once you sort of lift them off the ground off the sand and get them sort of floating. If you stick something in front of them, they grab hold of it. And they don't they don't want to let go until they can see it pulling them up off the top of the water then they want to run. So if you just drag the water and keep the weight of the water on them, yet got them

Unknown Speaker 53:47
where the free traders are where to land, or did they earn

Unknown Speaker 53:52
which for traders, the Hawaiian Yeah. They offered a bland for preemption to them. It was like they give them I think it was 160 acres. And you had to you had to develop it somehow. They couldn't you couldn't just say okay, I want this 160 acres and then just sit back and say okay, I own it. In five years, you had to do something you had to clear the land or build a house, plant a garden, something like that. And then you could own that land. I'm not sure if they gave it to them outright, but if it wasn't outright give and it was like $1 An acre think dollar acres. Yeah. Yeah. And it was usually about 160. But you could, you could have smaller plots. But and then then you could you could buy another one. You know, if you prove that, you know, I'm gonna live here and raise my family. You could you could buy more land. That was that was not just the Hawaiians that was just about anybody. They wanted to sort of populate the place there was nobody here because it was a little first In the First Nations communities, and as I said earlier, they didn't, they didn't sort of stay put so much as they were transient like this would have been where they came for crabbing season. And then they might have had over to the mainland side to the Fraser River for salmon season. I know they used to go down to Lummi and pick hops, hops season. And then there was a berry season so they moved. And it was when the the the fur traders and the community started popping up around the the forts that then they started really sort of staying put more still there was people that went out and did the the traditional stuff. But they started coming back to that home base. For Victoria now has a read up Government Street and down through Bastion square, there's a double row of bricks. And there's names written on most of those bricks. And that is the outline that is the footprint of Fort Victoria. So when you can go there and see that, like, I'm often there and I I'm outside the fort, like walk along, and there is one right where the Bastion was rate at. I think it's view St. It shows the bricks in the hexagonal pattern that was the Bastion there. And that is where I found us a brick that was dedicated to the sandwich Islanders. And no specific brick for specific people. And I asked at one time if there was a way to buy a brick now because there are some blank ones. And they said no, that project is done. So we can't add our our kinfolk, but like three or four bricks beside the one that says sandwich islanders is James Murray, Yale, and his daughter, which is Amelia Yale, Manson. And I only found out maybe two or three years ago that James Murray Yale is my great great great grandfather, and his daughters, my double great grandmother on my mom's side. We never knew anything about our mother's family for years. She told us she didn't know her. Her birth parents, but she did. And when she was way later in her life, she finally came clean, told us who they were. And I tracked them down just a few years ago, and he was the chief trader at Fort Langley. And he married three, four women from the Kwantlen area, which is the first nations around Fort Langley. And he had children with all of them in my great great grandmother was one of those children. Why did she keep it a secret? She was given away pretty much right away was she was born. I see her birth certificate has her real mom and dad. And within two years, she's on the Census with the people that raised her why she was given away. I don't know that she had this story that they I don't know. They didn't want her. She just felt like she was not wanted ever by them. And so she never wanted anything to do with them. She didn't want to find them. They didn't want me I don't want them. But she knew she had a brother and some sisters. And she had the same attitude of that too, that they knew about me. If I knew about them, they knew me. And if they haven't come looking for me, I won't find them. So it's it's it was a bitter pill for her and she was not. She did not have a happy childhood. And so she just sort of that's it. It was after she had a stroke. She was just getting her speech back because he had trouble with her her speech. And I was visiting her and there was this old gentleman sitting there and he was trying to ask her questions, and she was having difficulty answering him because he didn't have her speech back yet. And he asked her where where she was from something about her upbringing, and she sort of struggled with and I said, I answered for her. I said, my mom's having a difficult time speaking but she really didn't know her birth parents. So I don't think she can she can answer that for you. And she finally Oh, yes, I know who they were. Do she says yes. She told me these names. Well, who would have known but she still did not want me to find them. She didn't want anything to do with them. And I said Well, can I look after you're gone? Mom? I'd like to know. They're my family too. She says okay, you wait till I'm gone. Okay. So I have found them well, is that it? Are you

Unknown Speaker 1:00:08
We've got we've got is it just the four of us?

Unknown Speaker 1:00:13
Thank you so much. Thank you everyone for coming in for all your attention and questions. It was really great to watch it.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:28
This was just a marina. One of the twins, one of the twins. I'm the youngest. And then there's the twins Marina and her sister Josie. Six of eight, eight of eight. And then my brother hercus passed already David and John still live here on Saltspring. My second oldest sister Lea still lives here on Saltspring and our oldest sister Ethel passed away a few years ago this is Apples daughter she's there she's four of sick four of six and six and six

Unknown Speaker 1:01:09
over here photo op photowalk well thank you again thank you so much. Spring you're all welcome. I don't know what thank you all for coming I really like your behind the zoom bar. Just come up here counselors because

Unknown Speaker 1:01:38
they didn't make up so much.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:40
allowed to know we had her on tape. How do I look? How do I look?

Unknown Speaker 1:01:52
Carolyn, Carolyn Carolyn.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:08
I'll send them to you. Thank you so much.