Salt Spring Island Archives
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| Media | digital recording | Audio | mp3 √ |
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342_Kate-Scoones_Ruth-Sandwell_Victoria.mp3
otter.ai
12.02.2024
no
Outline
Speaker 1 0:03
Today is Tuesday, March the 10th. And today I'm talking to Kate schools in Victoria. My name is readcentral
Unknown Speaker 0:16
Okay, Kate, I wanted to begin,
Speaker 2 0:18
which you've already told me a little bit, but I'll ask you to tell me again with what your own experience of the golfer has been like when, what time you spent there. And and what it was like, your journey and then we'll go on and talk about your, your family, but I just like to get some idea of you.
Speaker 3 0:39
Sure. Well, I I started life there, I guess. So from my very early childhood.
Speaker 1 1:08
Today is Tuesday, March the 10th. And today I'm talking to pay experience in Victoria. My name is Ruth Center.
Speaker 1 1:36
Today is Tuesday, March the 10th. And today I'm talking to Kate skirts in Victoria. My name is readcentral.
Unknown Speaker 1:49
Okay, I wanted to begin, which you've already told
Speaker 2 1:53
me a little bit, but I'll ask you to tell me again, with what your own experience of the golfer has been like when, what time you've spent there. And then what it was like your genuine demo, go on and talk about your room. You found that but I just like to get some idea of you.
Speaker 3 2:12
Sure. Well, I I started life there I guess. So from my very early childhood. I lived on Pender Island, North Pender Island, on Corbett Road, which was just near Hope Bay. And almost all of my immediate relatives lived on Pender Island or Galliano Island as my mother. My mother's family was the Pender Island pioneer family. And my father's family came to Galliano and in 1885, so just about everyone on Pender Island at the time, went to 56 onwards for me, I was related to him one way or the other cousins, grandparents, aunts, uncles, huge sort of disjointed kind of family, where different people are married into the family and joined other families together. So it was it was great that way, because the school there were eight grades in the school and just two rooms. And each, each room had had four grades in it. And, for instance, I was when I was in grade one, my cousin Mary was in grade one with me. There was another girl, she wasn't a relative, an audit, but she was an oddity, relative. But my sister who was in Grade Two had two cousins on either end in the row. And that was great, too. And then it went on from there. Yeah, so you knew everybody pretty well?
Unknown Speaker 3:47
Do you know what the population was in? The 50s?
Speaker 3 3:51
Yeah, I do. Actually, the name or the number 100 sort of comes to mind. I think I remember my mother saying to me, we're getting close to 100 people on Pender. And it hovered somewhere around 90 to 100. And so that's number has always stayed in my mind is the number of people there. And I think South Pender had maybe 20 1015 and 20 people with a little place.
Unknown Speaker 4:19
Did you see a lot of changes you use it there? I know from about till you were
Speaker 3 4:28
when I was about nine when we left and we went to Salt Spring, but we we kept our house contenders. So we would go back and spend summers there. And of course my grandmother was still there all through my teens. And we spent summers with her and that's locals.
Unknown Speaker 4:44
So you went from salt street? Then you moved to Victoria?
Unknown Speaker 4:47
Can I ask what your
Speaker 1 4:51
what your usually ask people what brought you to the island but obviously it's because you have family on tenders that way your family was there? Yes. They
Speaker 3 4:59
It moved there in 1870s. And it was,
Unknown Speaker 5:03
what how did your family make a living?
Speaker 3 5:07
What my immediate family, my dad was a logger, and he loved the southern Gulf Islands and then went further up the coast. And some summers we would, we would go up to these various camps with him live on the beach and in a barge house or something where he logged and even went as far off as the Charlotte's at different times. So that was our immediate form of living. And my grandfather, my mom's dad was a fisherman. What was his curly after Loney. And he was born on Pender in 1902. The second youngest son of James
Speaker 1 5:52
Okay, look about to those guys in just a second. How many children did you have in your family? Three,
Speaker 3 5:58
myself, my sister and my brother was the youngest. Okay. And
Speaker 1 6:02
was your brother the oldest sister. Okay. So what changes did you see in Pender in those? Since then, I guess I could ask, Oh,
Speaker 3 6:16
it's been tremendous change. I think the first time I really became aware of the changes to Pender in 1965, when I think it was the Alexander, I can't remember the name of the family. But there was a big family property where magic Lake is now on Pender Island. And I remember my dad was home that summer because he was digging magic Lake. He had a big machine, we ran a big bulldozer cat and I can remember going to see him there while he was digging out the place where magic lake was gonna be. What's his name? John skins.
Unknown Speaker 7:00
That development cost
Speaker 3 7:01
credit. Oh, it was well, we named dubbed it immediately tragic swamp. Every buddy that we knew on tender was horrified that it was going to happen? Well, I think the the, the tragedy came after when these little shacks started going up. And there was no, there was no sort of rhyme or reason to this development. And all kinds of people started coming depend on it really upset sort of the natural balance of things. It had been a very stable sort of farming fishing community, mostly old people. And when, when new the all the new people started coming, then there was demands on the ferry service, the post office food on the island, all this sort of systems that had worked for everyone for a long time suddenly had to change. And then things like the island trust come into being and
Unknown Speaker 8:04
that was more or less explicitly in response
Unknown Speaker 8:05
to magic. Like,
Speaker 3 8:08
I I don't know, I had the impression that it was it referred to all of the golf days.
Speaker 2 8:13
Yeah. But it was that was when there were a number of things that that genuinely was the increase, you know, in just all kinds of things increasing in density and tourism particular that that created the new magic lakes was sort of held lately because held up was the, you know,
Speaker 3 8:33
if we don't do something, yeah, I still think that that was probably the worst thing that happened. Because it was magic, like going in because it it just, it just changed from that point. You didn't know your neighbors anymore. Riding on the ferry was a different experience. Not that I you know, I'm a drawbridge type, you know that I want to have it for me and not allow anyone else there. But it was just the way in which the place just boomed just
Speaker 1 9:03
because that coincided with the increased ferry service section 6568 or something else. So people became a lot easier for people to do that with a year round residents, the people who built it, was it mainly visitors. It seemed
Speaker 3 9:18
to be mainly mainly visitors, mainly summer people. I don't really know it. Very I do remember, though, that people who would come on a year round basis ended up retiring there and then becoming permanent residents. And I guess one of the things that happened was when the ferry system, they had to be increased they they knew they had to develop a better place for the ferry to come in. And so Port Washington, which had been where the ferry came in was they decided not us not to use that and they developed Otter Bay and again, I know that well because my dad was right there building the road, which The otter bait team to the very slip that had to be blasted out of that sheer cliff that Otter Bay sits on to provide for the front loading ferries that went to be developed at the time. So, yeah, so your dad
Unknown Speaker 10:16
as well as working
Unknown Speaker 10:18
at logging did a lot of other stuff right with the
Speaker 3 10:21
machine. Yeah, a heavy equipment. person. He had a scooter and, and an arch and a donkey. And those things are all used in logging. But they were applicable to all kinds of different things. He did all kinds of stuff, too. He built floats. And so he I remember after, probably was around that time, he'd been asked to build floats at Peters Cove, which is done at the end. Right at the end of North Pender, just opposite bed, belle harbor, Wallace point. And the only way you could get there was through this little dirt track and we had a little Land Rover. And I can remember sitting in the back of this land rover whipping over these little hills with the cedar trees within our faces, and that was the only way you could get there was this track that he knew through the woods. And now it's a paved, you know. So I remember going there and then it because it would take so long to get there. We were taking lunch. And while he was building these floats, and we were having lunch on this beautiful little knoll my sister and mom and my dad and I and we could hear this pet sound and it was a very odd kind of sound. And we thought she was like noise isn't there? No roads here can't be a car. What is it? My sister jumped up and looked out to the water and said it is a car. And we jumped up and here was one of those floating cars. Do you remember? Yeah. And it was the Celica look just like James Bond, I swear I mean with my eyes, and this blonde with this beautiful hair, and they put it up onto the beach and got stuck on a log and looked around and realized there was nowhere to go back and head it off. It was a very odd, very odd image.
Unknown Speaker 12:15
It was changed.
Speaker 1 12:22
So when you were before, before that time? How would your family will want to try it? I'm trying to get a sense of the of the community that was there. Did they get most of the things that they needed through for day to day living from from the store stores on Pender? Yeah. I mean, were they hoping
Speaker 3 12:43
Bay store, Port Washington store and there was a store itself pendant right at Bed Bath, where the pub sits now in the resort. There was a store there. But mostly it was hoped they was some store that's just tragically burnt down. Yeah. And my mom used to work in that store when she was a kid. So it was a really great, really great place. Well, Mr. Corbett was the he was one of two brothers who started the store. And then he sold it he still, he was still the postmaster when I was a kid. And hit the post office was right at the back of the store. But Mr. Smith ran the store, Ralph Smith, and his wife so and so that's where everybody went was where the ferry came in at that point. And so that was always a big draw was the day the boat would come in store. And he you know, I know now that he was a bootlegger, and, you know, he sort of getting anything kind of Yeah, yeah. And day to day stuff. Well, the lifestyle was different than we didn't have fresh, like really fresh vegetables and things like that. It was mostly fruit veg, you know, like it was very rural, kind of you didn't go to the store and just
Unknown Speaker 14:04
sure, like,
Speaker 3 14:05
yeah. Did your family grow stuff for this? No, we had, we had not a very big piece of property is probably about four acres. And it was the original orchard to the farm that had existed in the valley. It was originally an auction on the farm. But over the years through marriages and whatever pieces have been cut off and our section was surrounded by a more lessons will Mollison had a sheep farm. And it was just south of the border between the Bremer farm and the archer on the farm. So I'm not sure whose orchard who planted it. It may have been that the Corbett's at some point when they built the house in 1902. I think trying to do our church, but it took it comprised our entire property We're going apple trees mostly. So that was our what we provided to people. And the Mallesons, who lived next door, had a big garden and a smokehouse. And so there was lots of trading back and forth between our families between giving apples for vegetables. I still recall Mr. Watching, Mr. Mr. Will, you know Mr. Mollison come down from his place with a box and set it on the styles between our place and my mother go out and set a box of apples and pick up the vegetables so and there was sort of communal, the smokehouse Mr. Lawson kept pigs to so there was bacon, ham and things like that. And my uncle Hank, my mom's brother was also a fisherman and he would smoke fish there too. So that was that Mr. Mollison, smokehouse? What sort of things?
Speaker 1 15:57
Would he take payment? Or would you give him some of what you smoked?
Speaker 3 16:03
I think it was just, if you wanted to use the smokehouse, you could Yeah, I don't. That wasn't really part of I think it was more what can you do for me rather than the money? I think most people live pretty frugally. And it was better to help someone help him in defense than to give it 10 bucks away. Sorry, I remember. I remember my dad helping Mrs. Mollison on occasion. But I don't remember any money. You know, I mean, if it's just a kid, so
Unknown Speaker 16:39
you were aware that people were doing things for each other? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 16:45
Did you think of yourself as
Speaker 3 16:46
being poor? No. No, not at all. I mean, we had, but I know now that we were because my mom told has told me that that, you know, we would get all the cast off cans of Sam and that my grandfather, get his hands on any dented cans or stuff that would come to us. So I my dad hunted and that was a big deal with the kids. Well, they were the cat. It was Ken Sam and he ate it. Oh, sorry. Yeah, anything that wasn't wasn't good for selling in a store, like, dented or something. People wouldn't buy it. So people come to us. But we, my dad hunted every year he was allowed to take during hunting season, he could take three deer. Some years it was more overpopulation. So it was duck hunting. I do remember trying to tuck into a Canada Goose one winter. And it was just like baling wire. I remember my mom saying this is as tough as Bill wire to throw it away. So there was a lot of a lot of harvesting kinds of things. You know, I remember, it was a huge area that someone that Northwest Washington had I managed a Blackberry patch. I've never seen a Blackberry patch managed before, but this was managed in a way that someone had cut pathways into it. And everyone went there to pick blackberries because it was just it was they were very high. So the blackberries could write them in a cool place. And everyone would take ladders and buckets and, and go and pick for the day. And you know that's that's what we did. About clams. clams and oysters. Oh, yeah. Browning harbor where the Marina is now. Where there was nothing there that was that had to be one of the best poster grants I've ever remember seeing put those in put the aren't needed. Um,
Speaker 1 18:44
are they? Because on some of the islands they can't, they can't even cultivate. But I thought that the oysters were brought in at different times. They
Speaker 3 18:54
may have been they may have been brought in. I don't ever remember knowing that. But I just remember getting sacks and sacks burlap sacks of oysters and picking all day and having a fire and cooking oysters. You know, at the end of the day you have this big fire going and just steamed oysters on the beach. And clams there aren't very many clam beaches on Pender. The beaches tend to be fairly Rocky and Shaylee so clams I don't I don't remember picking all that much. Maybe they are at Otter Bay. I think there might be some clams there. And it can be of course but we used to, you know, fish go Jagan for cod and lots of deer.
Unknown Speaker 19:42
Lots of Madison.
Speaker 3 19:44
Lots of fish, lots of birds, ducks, wild ducks and things my dad No, no pheasants, and not that I recall. Gross, gross, gross Yeah, we used to eat ducks up behind our place or Mr. Mouse and he had a swampy, swampy area. And that's where my dad would go hunting for ducks. We had a bird dog and like, people often and my sister and I, it was our job to collect them and clean them and stuff. So and he'd killed him with bird shot. So of course, they'd always be peppered, you know, so you have to be careful with cracker keeper, then you got to count them will feel is that when?
Speaker 1 20:40
It sounds a lot, actually what you're telling me about the people of a generation before that? That kind of combination? That's really what about your mom? What did she did she do stuff either for wages, or what kinds of stuff did she do for those kinds of activities, self provisioning, activities.
Speaker 3 21:03
She, she provided she did all the food preparation. You know, she would, I'm sure she made arrangements. If my dad, when he got started Deere, what we would do all he'd do all the cutting and all the wrapping and stuff. She can do everything. Every season had things that you were supposed to do in that season. And having Well having an orchard was a particularly is a particular time. And as kids we were, we were the pickers. I don't ever remember anyone coming to our place to pick but I do remember trading boxes of apples for stuff. And we had a root cellar below the house where all the apples are stored. My dad would make apple cider in the press. In terms of my mum doing anything from wages, I know she used to do people's hair. She's still she's a hairdresser now and these are the these are the days when there were no hairdressers on pander. And there was a wonderful old lady named Miss busty that she would go into her hair and I would be able to go with her just before I went to school, so she would perm someone's hair or cut it or color it. She taught herself to do that. I do know that she worked at the store at the whole bay store. But that was before she got married. Did she do a lot of some she did some sewing. I guess she did. She did a lot of knitting. Both my mom and my grandmother knit slippers and socks and things like that. I remember having a sweater set made from this beautiful blue wool the hat, the pom pom. And every year we got new slippers that she met. And I don't remember sewing Oh, she taught me how to sew and bought me my first machine and I was so thankful. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 22:58
Did your grandmother live with you?
Speaker 3 23:00
No, she lived up the hill to Moscow to sit in the corner of Corbett road and Port Washington and she had a house that burned down and my team sent me.
Speaker 1 23:14
Kate, you mentioned that there were different things that would be done like different work for different seasons. And then I guess the fall would be the apples can think of other seasonal kinds of things. Well, the fall was probably
Speaker 3 23:28
the most important time for for picking for getting wood for hunting, hunting seasons would start in October. So that's when you hear you know, and that's when a lot of people would come to the island to sort of open season. People would come and I can remember being in my dad's truck, driving along past the cemetery and he was on the lookout for deer like everybody and just near George Ross Smith's place. He he pulled over quick grabbed his gun from the rack. We were in the back and just fired out the window and killed a three point buck probably half a mile away. Another time I remember being in his 16 foot boat coming back from Ganges and we were probably coming along right around Provo, and he looks up on the on the side. Maybe we were in we were still in Ganges Harbor. And he looks up, grabs his gun and fires and we spent you know while getting ashore because there wasn't a lot of places there to get ashore and he dragged the deer so yeah, he was pretty good at that. We could bring down a deer pretty quick and it was always was always a point of was it a good clean kill you know? You know, and as soon as it got home it was strung up in our garage and the whole thing cleaned and we were just right in there like dirty shirts. You know we decided to To watch everything that he did. So that was an important time.
Unknown Speaker 25:08
Did you keep any livestock?
Speaker 3 25:09
You know, we didn't. We are our land was very poor in that way. I remember my brother trying to grow a garden for school. And it was pathetic. It was just because it's all your land garden on the West Coast and people think it's so lush and green, but we have so much rain that it washes all the nutrients away. In the middle of that soil
Unknown Speaker 25:28
was awfully Rocky.
Speaker 3 25:31
Yeah, so clay, shale and stuff. So no, we didn't have we didn't grow anything like that, except for apples and pears and plums. You had a bit curious.
Unknown Speaker 25:43
What about the your house itself? Did you have electricity?
Speaker 3 25:48
We didn't when I was first born, but it did come to the island. But a lot of the times that without electricity would go off at clinics unexpectedly. So we were always prepared with cooler lamps and things like that. Our heating was we had just a fireplace in the living room and an oil stove in the kitchen.
Unknown Speaker 26:13
What kind of oil? I
Speaker 3 26:15
had? Oh, yeah, I'm not sure wasn't propane. No, it wasn't? No, it was. It was a cold house. My mom always joked that it never stopped the wind. It just slowed it down a little bit.
Speaker 1 26:31
Strathdee outlet when is that the house that was built in 1902?
Speaker 3 26:36
What was it like? Is it still it's still standing and it's now a bed and breakfast. It's called the COVID house. And it's an it's an incredibly beautiful house I think but it has been altered since we live there. And one of the things that is painful for me to think about. And I'm sure my mom too because she talks about this this corporate road and when we left there was just a narrow road and it was no paved roads on tender. So it was just a narrow dirt road and it was lined with fir trees on either side was was lovely and dark in the center and always cooler in the summertime and we would use the ditches to collect mint there was always fresh meat growing and so my mom would always send us out for men and mushrooms and all the things and sand and berries and stuff that grew along there. And in 1961 there was a an in our house to had a fur lined walkway or pathway that came up to the house and and almost obliterated the house from the road there were these huge fir trees. And in 1961, there was a hurricane that whipped over the Gulf Islands and took out a lot of trees. Some of our trees were down at that point went down. At this point, my great uncle Laurie, Uncle Lawrence Marconi was the head of highways department and attended. And he he ran the department like I guess he was supposed to but there was a fellow on the on the crew who, who and my uncle retired. This was my great uncle. He took over and one of the things he wanted to do was to cut down all the trees on Carter road. And he kept telling my mom, this is what he was going to do. And my mom would say, you set one foot there and you're gonna blast your head off. And she at one point she did she threatened them with shotgun said Not while I'm standing. But eventually he got his way and took out all of these trees removed, which changed the nature of the place. And not long after that our house. This was probably in the early 70s was sold and all the trees in front of it were taken down too. So when I look at the house now, when I can show you a photograph that you'd like to see it next time Okay, so what's
Speaker 1 29:04
this besides it's Yeah, trees grow back but they take a long time to be happy.
Speaker 3 29:09
But the house itself has a lot of character has a lot of character and I understand it was built for the The Corbett family and Mrs. One of the Mrs. Mollison was the Corbett. So she was able to look at her family home from her married home.
Speaker 1 29:29
That was always nice. So did you have indoor plumbing? Yes. So you always had that as long as you can remember? Yeah.
Speaker 3 29:36
But we didn't have very good water. We had no water on the property. So we we had my grandmother up the hill had a she had an okay well, I don't know. I think maybe it was a low as you know, a gallon a minute or something. It was really quite decided. And for many years we survived with a pipe. A little two inch PVC vinyl pipe running from Her place down the hill down the road and into our place and that was our water
Unknown Speaker 30:05
did you use anything else like runoff or anything like that? Oh
Speaker 3 30:08
we had rain barrels but water was a real problem and we were very we had to be very conservative you know sometimes the well we we didn't have a well for a long time and and I remember my dad decided that it was time to drill a well and they bought the grave over and they went down almost 500 feet before they found water and my cousin Wally Bradley had come in which for us he's a well known water which over there and and he swore there was water and every 10 feet every 100 feet or whatever my dad but eventually we got water and how was it? It was terrible was hard shale yeah my mother Mother thought she was a redhead for years she wasn't?
Unknown Speaker 34:00
In difficult service you couldn't just couldn't have showers or anything because
Speaker 3 34:04
we had a shower. We didn't have a bathtub, it would have been too much but my sister and I were always backed in the winds cups in the in the pantry. So that was our bath experience sitting. So, you know the treat was going up
Unknown Speaker 34:21
the hills and my grandmother's
Speaker 3 34:21
for her bath and her bathtub. But of course the water was like rest
Speaker 1 34:31
without Mr. Thing that used to be one of the downsides.
Speaker 3 34:36
Yeah. Yeah, I think it was a real challenge. Probably especially having young children and having to do washing and things like that.
Unknown Speaker 34:45
Did you have a washing machine?
Speaker 3 34:47
We did. My mom was just telling me the other day that it was a gas fired washing machine. Yeah, I didn't know that. And everything of course was coming out on the line until my dad was able to go under a dryer. And that made a huge difference to her, and to how quickly things could be ready. Especially in the wintertime.
Speaker 1 35:11
Slow grains. What I would like to do now is to talk a little bit about about the origins of your family, Kate, and I'm going to try to keep this straight and I'm just terrible about it anyway. Okay, so who who was the very first one of your relatives to come to the Gulf
Speaker 3 35:30
Islands. His name was David hope. And he came in 1870, in partnership with a fellow named Noah Buckley. And my understanding, is they preempted and that's the word that's always been used. They preempted a good portion of North Pender and started a sheep farm. There. And
Unknown Speaker 35:53
can I just stop you there for a second? Where did they come from?
Speaker 3 35:57
They came from Scotland, from St. Andrews.
Speaker 1 36:02
Okay, and why did they come to the Gulf Islands in particular?
Speaker 3 36:06
I don't know that. I wish I did. I'm sure. There are people who do know that. They may have traveled overland, they may have come round by ship. But I think there was word out there somewhere that the Gulf Islands were a good prospect. Maybe not an 87 acres later than that. I know when Mike
Speaker 1 36:27
I think I actually saw David hole name in the preemption register. And recently what I was looking at think was 1876 1876. Okay, maybe maybe at 70 But yeah, sometime got me deleted. 74. But anyway, yes.
Speaker 3 36:44
Yeah. And he was joined by his brother Rutherford, at some point. And then, Rutherford suffered a freak and fatal accident when he was out hunting for deer. When he shot the deer, and he was covertly the deer was down and he went to reach back to grab the head and reach back and slit his throat, which is what you do in the deer was not dead. He hadn't shot it in standard. And the deer leaped up, knocked him down and jumped on him let you know how deer belts they force and this deer bounded right on top of him and killed him. And it so traumatized his brother that his brother couldn't continue farming and left his property to his sister, his married sister back in Scotland, and she arrived with her husband and, and her family and around to take up. And they were the Octorok. That's the first documentary.
Speaker 1 37:56
Okay, I didn't know the related to David. So do you know what happened to know about? I don't know. He seems to disappear as well. And yeah, I'm sure there are people who know but nobody who I've talked to knows what was happening to what happened to you. And he disappears from the land records of the 1870s.
Speaker 3 38:16
He may have up to and going back to Scotland with David Holt, because David hoped he'd go back to Scotland and resume whatever life he had there. I don't know. But he'd been gone for many years. He was on Kindle for many years. But that paved the way for the automotive family and they arrived and there were three kids I think Elizabeth aquilani being one of them, and she married Washington grimmer as an 18 year old she married and he was in his 30s he arrived and so that's where our first grammar connection so
Unknown Speaker 38:50
did you say Washington Okay, and what was the sister's name? Who was originally hope to be
Speaker 3 39:05
friendly and in these people there are you know, my mother keeps because there were deaths and then maybe marriages and played like the Bradley's are related to us because while these mom Laura Bradley wasn't wasn't actually and she was when the original mum died. The dad remarried had another daughter so I get confused. Mr. And Mrs. James are turning
Speaker 1 39:43
the other side so I don't. That's okay. You should be able to find out anyway. But so that sister came and she had three daughters. Did you see three? Three kids? No.
Unknown Speaker 39:57
Four Elizabeth was the only daughter. Okay.
Speaker 1 40:05
Okay. Yeah, Kate, I don't need to put you on the spot. Yeah, okay, great. And you can can tell me. So the grammars so the Elizabeth became Elizabeth grimmer when she took grammar and they
Unknown Speaker 40:19
had a lot of land on North, Pender gets right, as well. Did they get more from phase two to get marks in this marriage? That's my
Speaker 3 40:28
understanding. I don't know for sure. But my understanding is that he did get more when he married Elizabeth quickly. But there was an incredibly long standing feud between the automobiles and the groomers. They were not on speaking terms. So after the smear, yeah. Yeah. In fact, my mother tells a wonderful story of when Washington grammar died. The cemetery had been had been dedicated by my great great grandfather. And Washington Kramer was so a Paul is so opposed at being buried in an optimality cemetery that he opted to be buried on main island. But he the only thing is, is and he knew that and he said he would never cross Dr. Looney land he could get out of off Pender via Port Washington and go to main island. But what he didn't know is a day after he died, there was a huge storm. The ferry that was supposed to take him in the boat with it was supposed to take his casket to main island for burial couldn't get into Port Washington and had come around Port bay. So he was taken across actually land and eventually got to me an island and there's a woman on Pandora now who was who is considered to be a psychic. And not long ago, she was called to this old house on North panel to try and somehow try and deal with the presence that was in this house. My she's telling us to my mom, and my mom says that's the old grimmer house. And so the psychic was saying how she had to clear that home of this disturbed ghost. My mother said it's Washington. Washington governor has been ever since like 230 when he died and had to go across out to any man has been rattling around in this house
Unknown Speaker 42:19
so that Yeah, so do you know what the fuse was about?
Speaker 3 42:23
Probably land I would imagine or maybe farming methods or bad stock between them? I mean, you know,
Unknown Speaker 42:32
so do some do miss lose touch with your family
Speaker 3 42:37
that's that's something I don't know. That's sort of going back a generation beyond what I'm but it makes for interesting. Interesting thinking. There's
Unknown Speaker 42:50
so many traces that still remaining that feuding. Oh,
Speaker 3 42:54
yeah. Oh, yeah. But it lapsed enough for my my cousin while she's Barbara grammar. Who's she's the her parents are. Gosh, which grammar? She was Percy grammars daughter. Okay, they were Percy grammar, Neptune, navy, Neptune and all of Helen. And her dad was Percy. And so, in terms of cousin of blood, I don't know how close she was, but she married my uncle Octonal. So the groomers came back into the fold with my auntie Barbara. So they couldn't pay it into the too much. Or at least that part of the family.
Unknown Speaker 43:42
Okay, so what happened then there's James and, and David hope sister nocturnally. And they have Okay, so then they have Yeah,
Speaker 3 43:52
I think actually, it's this book. I'm sure you've come across this book. This book. And you know, the history of the person who wrote it is balding. Yes. Okay. So she was Mrs. Lawrence after Moroni and it was their son, Lawrence. Lawrence and his wife who had James and James was my Okay, James was my grandfather, great grandfather.
Unknown Speaker 44:35
So, okay, so this is your Okay, so tell me who are then are your grandparents. My
Speaker 3 44:44
grandparents are curly octanol me and that was a nickname because real name was Kenny Chamberlain. And he came in and he was the second youngest son of Mr. And Mrs. Want to talk to Tony and he married My grandmother all of Spencer and in about probably about my team probably about 1926. I would imagine. He was just a young man at the time.
Unknown Speaker 45:18
And then who did they have? The C grandparents who
Speaker 3 45:22
had so they have four children. They had Jenny. How? Uncle Hank, he still lives on. My mom, Beverly, and David has to have some kind of. So the two boys Hank and Dave proctor.
Unknown Speaker 45:43
Okay. Okay, so then your mom married?
Speaker 3 45:51
She married John schools in 1950.
Speaker 1 45:58
Okay, and where was he from your folder.
Speaker 3 46:02
He was from Galliano Island. And he come to Ghana, and was boarding at my grandmother's while logging there
Unknown Speaker 46:13
cutting it? Do you happen to know who he was working for? When he was logging in the 50s?
Speaker 3 46:21
I don't. I know they went to a turn or not long after that to continue logging there. I'm afraid I don't
Speaker 1 46:32
like return to find out because I know that sort of post war period a lot of the Gulf Islands rely on and I don't know.
Speaker 3 46:43
I don't Yeah, he would be a good person to talk to about that. If you were to say he's on Galliano.
Unknown Speaker 46:53
So he came from Galliano. When was he born there?
Speaker 3 46:57
He was born on Saltspring. My grandparents who lived on Galliano at the time had a house on Saltspring, as well. And from probably about my dad was born in 2009. And I think they had the house through the 20s. And maybe into the first part of the 30s. Nobody had it longer than that because my dad was to grow. When they when he became school age, he was the youngest of six. And he would go with my Uncle Jim, they would roll from Galliano back to Saltspring on a Sunday night, and batuk themselves. They they were just two little kids nine and 10 years old, and they live in this big house by themselves and go to school all week. And then Rohan to Kellyanne on Friday. And that's so they own the house through the time that my dad was in school. Now why they chose chose to go to Saltspring go to school, I don't know because Galliano had a school at the time. My that his older sisters went to Katyn total. So the old Galleon school, so maybe that I think my grandfather at that time was lighthouse keeper at Provo. And I think maybe he used to go into Galliano. And what was his name? Sorry, his name was Alexander Alexandrite, with schools. And so he would, he would do loud by his house to the provoke. And it may have been that they would stop off there on your way or that there was some connection. I know, he used to have he take one kid at a time and have him there for a week or so on the island. Just probably to give him a little bit of parental discipline or something. I think they were quite an unruly lot for all kinds of trips, because they live right on active paths. And the big house right at the corner. The corner right at they sort of apex of the classroom is there's a big white house there. And that was the house that my grandfather and my great uncle built. It started with a little cabin, and then it grew. But they also own other houses on their field, where the lodge is at studies. They used to own the house that was there was a private home and they owned it was called greenways. They also had a place up just north of gossip called Lions. And they traded that house I think they traded at my great uncle wanted that house and he had a property down at an octopath. And I think they did a swap at some point. Yeah.
Speaker 1 49:24
So what were your father's family doing on going oh, my
Speaker 3 49:31
grandfather retired, I think before he had two other he. He was an older male. And by the time he married I think he was in his late 40s. So and then he had six children. So when my dad was born, he was 56 years old or something. So he was basically a retired English gentleman. A little down on his lap perhaps he'd had an interest in life he he was not orphaned, but his mother died when he was very Young and an uncle took him under his wing and put them into the Navy as a nine year old who went to sea as a cabin boy, and stayed at sea his whole life, but eventually came around to this part of the world. When he was crew on a on a big sailor ship, then they'd come around for lumber. And he met Joe burl from Galliano. And Joe girl told him about how beautiful it was there. So he bought property, sight unseen, but marry on point and then sailed away for, gosh, 20 years before he decided to come back and see whether he still own the land. Excited he did and decided he would pick up his old sweetheart back in England, she'd waited for him. All those years he was in Brazil, building railroad through the Amazon, who he somehow managed to he went back to school where after he came out of the Navy and went and did an engineering degree. So he retired from all of that. But they traveled quite a bit because my, one of my aunts was born in France and the other ones born in England. So they, they traveled during the early 20s and late 20s. But by the time my dad was born, he was getting on and I think he was debilitated by gout. And he is a photo of him. This was taken at Maryam point, and theory is here. That's my grandfather. And that's my Great Uncle Paul. And my grandfather's leg there that he has crossed across there is a wooden leg and he lost part of it to count but not to cancer to go. So he he was probably slowed down quite a bit.
Unknown Speaker 51:51
So when he saw they made, I guess, did they have a farm or anything on Galleon or did they mainly
Speaker 3 51:59
paint my my grandparents, they ran on it. This was in the 30s. And I've met people since who knew my grandparents. They had a kind of an art center, believe it or not a place where artists could go mostly musicians. And it was largely under the influence of my great uncle who had one of the largest collections of phonograph records on the West Coast. And his name was Paul called out experience. And he he was very literary man, and he never married he. He came out to Canada after a very long career teaching mouth at Eton College in England. And he studied things like photography and mountain climbing and he just was aware of very worldly and very interesting person and had a tremendous love and knowledge of music and provided for lots of social evenings on Galliano, and I think it was probably his reputation that started bringing people to their home. And they had a fairly large home and I think my grandmother may have seen an opportunity there. So she started, I guess it was like almost like a bed and breakfast so they would have paying guests PGS you know, they'd have people come and stay. And after I started working at the Banff Centre, I met a choral director from Vancouver named Harold Brown, who asked me about my family and he knew he knew my grandparents. Oh, really? Yeah. And I'm the music director there. Now. Tom Ralston was delighted to hear that I was a student from Galliano because he, he used to go and spend lovely times there. He remembered sort of steeped in music. So I think they weren't very funny. They didn't have that kind of background. My grand mother had been born in a fairly wealthy family, and had a very good education. And I don't, I think she worked very, very hard to keep the family afloat. And it was always a joke that they would receive bundles from Britain during the war, the family back home, I would send care packages to them, rather than the right way around. So they had they were sort of I always had the impression that they were all very well educated. And that they had had careers in the Navy and that kind of thing, but not a lot of work. hourly rate type. I don't know that there were any inheritance or anything like that. I think my Uncle Paul was fairly well set up. Although he lived on next to nothing. I mean, he added the little cabin and ate apples and walnuts. Things that could grow. So quite eccentric
Unknown Speaker 55:00
Thank you. One of the things I wanted to ask you, Kate was if you had any sense,
Speaker 1 55:07
and you've talked about it a little bit, but any sense about the kinds of distinctions between people be their own Pender or
Unknown Speaker 55:16
Galleon?
Speaker 1 55:19
Me, what if there were all kinds of people that would associate together? Or if it was just in your case that everyone was your family? Or like so either in your time or maybe in your mother's and father's generation, as well?
Speaker 3 55:39
I think there's certainly within my family, there seems to be a distinction between my father's family and my mother's character. And I think it had to do with education, to do with opportunities. And then in terms of distinction, Pender Island is full of eccentric people, old, old people, and my mum often commented that they were, there were a lot of shell shocked men who gravitated to the islands to hide out after the war. And so she was always very conscious of people who were suffering from some kind of mental instability, which there were quite a few terms of distinctions.
Speaker 1 56:23
For example, there were Japanese on the islands, for example, to think about race did your family mentioned? Oh, yeah,
Speaker 3 56:32
I think I remember my grandmother talking about the Southfield psaltery. On Panama, because she worked out. It was, gosh, it was not far from where the I know, it was on the where this land has been deserted the Davidson property was near Otter Bay. It it disappeared long before I ever remember, sort of, but I always remember my grandmother talking about the old salty, what did she do? She cooked I think she was a tremendous Cook, and, and could cook huge amounts of food for people. And one of the events that she was very instrumental in keeping going on beyond what she called the strawberry tea. And when the strawberries became right, on the island, and people did grow them there, she would open her garden and she had a almost beautiful garden that's called the tea glade. And everyone would kind of everyone on the island would come to this, this party. And old Mr. teas from South Pender would bring the cream, he had cows and he would bring the cream and my mother and my grandmother would bake shortbread or shortcake forever. And she had a huge teacup collection and everyone wore their best clothes. And one summer one year, she managed to get a pipe band to come to Him. And that was just so. So things like that seemed to me that it brought the community together. There were events like fishing derbies, and farmers Institute picnic was that was a huge event that was held every year down at Brown Harbor. And it just showcased what everybody could do. I mean, the Institute Can I still think still happens, but it's and it's probably the spirit of it is is there? You know, it's still the same in that way.
Unknown Speaker 58:30
And what would people do?
Speaker 3 58:31
They would show off their vegetables and flowers and baked goods and you're always gained for the kids, three legged races, egg tops, you know, that kind of here. And always lots and lots of food to eat, clam chowder. That kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 58:51
So so your grandmother then works if she sort of learned some of that stuff, keeping her cooking in for the sultry
Speaker 3 59:00
that she would learn how to make a big coin. Yeah. I don't know what took her there. I wish now that I've asked more questions about it, my mom would remember more.
Unknown Speaker 59:11
But with a lot of Japanese people were, you
Speaker 3 59:13
know, I don't ever remember any Japanese people. I remember meeting my first Japanese person and I was about seven. And she was a girlfriend with a young man who came to Canada for the summer. He was the native mechanism. But no, there weren't any. The only person I remember on the island who had a distinction was herbs balding, because he was happening? And I remember my dad telling me that he was in terms of a foreign person. Like you know, someone who would be distinct.
Unknown Speaker 59:50
You know, the space is a bit different.
Unknown Speaker 59:54
But there were no Japanese kids or anything like
Unknown Speaker 59:56
that. Yeah, I
Unknown Speaker 59:56
guess there were new mothers you probably
Speaker 3 59:59
know Yeah. Did she talk about her at all? She she hasn't talked specifically about the Japanese population here, although I do know they were there. And they were good friends. I remember my grandfather, my uncle always talked about the good friends they had in the Japanese fishing community. It's just a very tight knit.
Speaker 3 1:00:24
I don't think I can think of any distinctions like separations in people's minds.
Speaker 1 1:00:31
I guess there were people who thought that certain people are better or worse than the people.
Speaker 3 1:00:39
Some people had delete, you know, self delusion? Certainly. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But in terms of better or worse.
Speaker 1 1:00:53
So maybe what you'd say is that there were sort of personality differences and maybe some family things, but it wasn't like there was like, upper class and the working class, you
Speaker 3 1:01:06
know, I don't remember any of that. I remember everybody having sort of a skill that they did, or something that they did in particular that was sought after in some way. Mr. Martin, he could fix televisions and he was just sort of a man of the hour especially Hockey night in Canada. So the thing that was so wild about him was that he drove over a 1910 jalopy and it would come creeping up the driveway and he would come in to tinker around with the television in the hope. So I don't know what his I don't know what he did. I just know that He and Mr. Logan, he decided that the island needed a taxi. So he just put up a little notice and anyone leaving a taxi, you paid him just like a taxi. So he decided that that's what the island needed. And no one looked down on them. It's almost a log on the taxi driver. It was getting up near the ferry on time. So don't person I guess I remember having a distinction for me. What were people like the doctor that came? My grandmother's house was the clinic once a month the doctor would come consults. And yeah, his name was Ernie German. He's he's retired on sales call now on solving the day, last year, but he would come to the island and people had tremendous respect for him. Men that would never take their hats off to anything off as soon as they were in the door, you know, men who've maybe never really been in a home, you know, lived on a boat or something. I remember Darrell Georgeson sitting very quietly by the fireplace, sweat beating across his forehead and be sitting there saying what's wrong with you, Mr. Torch? I have been bitten by a spider. I thought he's been bitten by a blank I was gonna die is that we were always told how we had to avoid them. So you know, I think it was quite rare. He lived on a boat. So he seemed quite out of place and health. And I think he probably had a lot of there was distinction there between what Dr. Jarman could do
Unknown Speaker 1:03:23
what were there any kind of literally
