Salt Spring Island Archives

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Audio

Japanese Graves

Rose Murakami

Accession Number Interviewer
Date Location
Media mp3
ID

313_Tasaka_Japanese-graves.mp3

otter.ai

8.02.2024

no

Outline

    Family history and grave visit.
  • Speaker 1 discusses their family's history in Vancouver, including their great-grandfather's graveyard and a promise to put a stone on the baby's grave.
  • Speaker 1's mother and father visited the graveyard and promised to put a stone on the baby's grave, but they never did.
  • Speaker 1 recounts efforts to mark baby's grave on Salt Spring Island after 50 years.
    Family history and land ownership.
  • Speaker 1 takes a shovel to a grave, digging a route for someone visiting the grave.
  • Speaker 1 discusses their grandmother's grave in Ganges cemetery, mentioning her name and the tree she planted in the 1930s.
  • Speaker 1 discusses family history, land ownership, and cultural identity with Speaker 2.
    Japanese internment during WWII and its impact on families.
  • Speaker 1 shares personal experiences of racism in British Columbia, particularly against Japanese people, and how it influenced Canadian politics.
  • Speaker 1 describes their family's experience during World War II, including their parents' racist views and their forced relocation to Saltspring Island.
  • Speaker 1's uncle Victor and his family returned to Saltspring Island in 1948, despite the community's hostility towards them.
    Japanese Canadian cemetery and family history.
  • Elderly couple maintains ancestral cemetery, plans to mark graves with stones.
  • Speaker reflects on family history during WWII, including loss of loved ones and struggle to find remains.
  • Speaker 1 discusses family gravesites and the importance of remembering loved ones.
    Finding a relative's grave on Saltspring Island.
  • Speaker 1 finds long-lost relative's name on gravestone, tracks down granddaughter in Vancouver.
  • Woman discovers long-lost relative's grave on island, connects with daughter after cancer diagnosis.
    Japanese Canadian history and culture.
  • Speaker 1 shares stories of their family's history, including their forced relocation and the importance of preserving their cultural heritage.
  • Speaker 1 shares stories about their family's charcoal-making history, but lacks specific details.
  • Speaker 1 recounts their childhood memories of Mr. McAfee, a blacksmith who owned land near their parents' property and was known for his kindness and generosity.
  • Speaker 1's mother and father were able to use the land for firewood after Mr. McAfee's death, as he had left it to the people of Saltspring Island.
    Land ownership and injustices faced by Japanese Canadians during WWII.
  • Speaker 1 reveals that the park they thought was called McAfee Park is actually called Morgan Park, and they suspect a lawyer of changing the name.
  • Speaker 1 and Speaker 2 discuss the legal description of the park and how to find out who the original owner was.
  • Speaker 3 describes how their family's farm was taken without compensation during WWII, leaving them with nothing.
  • Perry Newman and David fought against racism in their community.

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Okay, father had a cleaning place clean clothes cleaning

Unknown Speaker 0:03
dry cleaners. I was on Betancourt.

Unknown Speaker 0:07
Oh, no, no, no in Vancouver. Oh. It was natural for me. They moved away in 30 miles, going back to the graveyard. Mom and dad tried to find out the family members of the people who were buried there.

Unknown Speaker 0:28
All right, this was when they came when you came back.

Unknown Speaker 0:31
Right? And and you Vaughn, father and mother came to visit mom and dad, they stayed for a few days. And Mom and Dad took them up to the graveyard and and asked them to put a stone on the babies. It would be there. The sister to the man who was here even owns it. That little baby who died would be a sister to you about he wants father. Oh, yeah. And so they promised that they would put a stone on there. And they were only here for one day. No, no, no. You stayed for a while? Yeah, a long, long time ago, I was still a student nurse at that time. And that was that was that was in the 50s? Because we returned in 1954. I graduated from high school in 55. And then I went to the Vancouver general in the school of nursing in 1956. And it was around that time that came to visit here. Or did they come when I was going to UBC anyhow, I've got my and but they never He said the father. I mean, your bonds father said that he would put on put a gravestone worker. And but they didn't do it. So a few years ago, I saw obituary in the Vancouver Sun that made me think about the to sack as again. And I found this person. Well, I couldn't find them directly. I had to leave my name and number at the funeral home. Oh, yeah. All right. You know what I mean? Yeah. And the lady who had died was one of the two sexes. And so I explained to them again, would they as a family put a stone on this baby's grave grave? This was a message. Yeah. Well, I talked to the son in law or something anyhow. And they said yes, yes. And they went and then No, I guess I wasn't. I'm getting things mixed up. I was still in Vancouver. And there was a bizarre in the Japanese Christian church. I can't remember if it was united, Anglican or what? And when I was sitting at our table, because I used to be on the healthcare society. And we were advertising things in here come Jeevan and her husband, Henry, walked by she just gave it to them. I told them that they're all wealthy. This poor little baby doesn't have a gravestone. And it was and went on and on and on. Anyhow, to make a long story short, when I shouldn't be an aunt to Yvonne. No, you've gone would be a nice to this little baby. Well, yeah, you Vaughn is the daughter. As I said, I'm the oldest of the 17. Anyhow, so I can't remember the name of the guy who was mortician or an undertaker here. He told me later that you Vaughn and her husband, Henry had come by boat. And he was kind of annoyed that they used him as a taxi to go from the harbor to the grave. And they had put this little stone down.

Unknown Speaker 4:06
And he was trying to sell it Gousto No,

Unknown Speaker 4:09
no, but things that he they would contact me because I'm trying we're looking after that graveyard, we've. Anyhow, so finally we got this little gravestone on the on the on the grid, little babies grave. So that took almost 50 years to get them to do that. You know what I mean? I do. And anyhow, when this girl arena a few years ago, she she and her father came on a tour to Salt Spring Island. I can't remember if it was by boat or if it was by bus. Oh, maybe one of the old bad black ball fairies. No, no, no, it wasn't that long ago. It was only about three or four years ago, I think. And somehow she I found out that we were living here. So she asked me if I would drive them to the graveyard. Which, which I did and showed them where the grave was. And it's really funny. She sees his little gravestone. It's a baby. And she's really disgusting that it looks so cheap. Cheap to me, but I didn't say anything that I said it has nothing to do with me. Like you know, you've got finally got a stone there. Yeah, although daddy's post is also by there too. With the cedar posts. Yeah. And, and then she asked me to show her where her grandparents lived. So I took those. Well, there isn't a house anymore. I just showed them by MBs. there behind me. Yeah, that road see see view or something? Road? Yeah, yeah. And just above there is where the bog rhubarb are. They're called cookie plants. So and it was a warm, hot, dry summer day. And she asked me if I would help her take a route. I drove home and I got a shovel. I got a box and I dug a route up for because they spread a by route dudes like rhubarb. Yeah, no way. So anyhow, I got that for her. And then that's the last time I ever heard of her. And I know that sometimes. Very occasionally, I can see that somebody has visited that grave. A little bit because they've got flowers or something very. And anyhow.

Unknown Speaker 6:49
So these are welcome. I actually know

Unknown Speaker 6:52
the last. It's the Sackler family. This the Sackler family, Mr. Mrs. to sack the man who did the taco kits. He used to go fishing and mom said that my mother father knew them well. And mom said that he would go fishing or I don't know. I don't think he owned a boat. He just went fishing with somebody. And during the offseason, he would make the charcoal. Yeah. And I don't know what his first name was, but the last name is to soccer.

Unknown Speaker 7:31
Did he only know him?

Unknown Speaker 7:35
I don't know. I just got the understanding from my mother that they had so many children. And they, they were kind of hard up. And mom said that the church ladies used to help them. I don't know what clothes or food or or whatever, whatever they needed. Yeah. And

Unknown Speaker 7:53
so you'd go back and you'd see that somebody had visited at the gravestone for the child. But they never called you or

Unknown Speaker 8:01
no, not. Not that I expect them to but you'd think it would be nice. Like mom and dad and us until the until the cemetery Ganges cemetery Society was formed. People like Ben, do you know Ben he died now but he used to be the manager of mullets hardware. Oh, gee, that off? Well, he

Unknown Speaker 8:29
was part of the Ganges. Well,

Unknown Speaker 8:33
I think when he was the chairman of that group, I don't know if it was a society at that time. But Andrea, somebody right now is the chairman of that. But before we used to go up there and clean that cemetery Art section all the time since 54. But now that Yandy cemetery society cleans a whole place.

Unknown Speaker 8:59
Well, Richard told me that they had that he had made an enclosure

Unknown Speaker 9:08
around your grave there used to be and but they took it out everything down like that bit if you've gone to the Ganges cemetery, and you walk straight in the jungle Central. Yeah. From when you walk straight in from the central entrance. Not the waterworks, but the other. You see this big maple tree. My grandmother planted that in the 1930s Your grandmother mother, oh, my grandmother. Oh, camel. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that was my mother's. My mother's maiden name was an oak candle. grandfather owned 200 acres at the bottom of sharp Road. A sure roadway and know what you know where the vet offices. You go pass the hydro and the island Trust Office and you just go down a little ways and there's a bit there. And the first row to the left is sharp brochure. I remember yeah, there's a lot of Japanese people lived there. My mom and dad lived at the end there of sharp road to

Unknown Speaker 10:18
the Archives has a map with a lot of the Japanese

Unknown Speaker 10:22
and my sister made it up for them. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 10:24
although it doesn't, doesn't give descriptions of how large they were.

Unknown Speaker 10:30
Well I wish my sister well my grandfather had 200 acres my mum and dad had 17 and they had made an agreement with Mr. Speed who owned all that land up to Adkin road like Mum and Dad bought virgin land from Mr. Speed and clear didn't and carved out this thriving very and vegetable and chicken farm at the bottom of sharp road. And anyhow, Mr. Speed said to mum and dad that as they are able to save money that he would sell the lands every time I go down that kin road I'd look to the thing and thinking that it would have been daddy's land. Of course, it was all stolen from us so and all of Sunset drive 640 acres that belonged to Mr. Iwasaki and Gavin Moyer, who used to be the custodian of enemy alien property. He worked for the Federal secretary of state there are many people like Gavin, who were supposed to replace commissioners. Yeah. And

Unknown Speaker 11:43
they tried to get local people.

Unknown Speaker 11:45
Well, he was responsible for all of the golf violence. Oh, yeah. Those job? Well, all he had to do, he was supposed to, initially they were holding our land and Trustee said to mom, Gavin was my mom and dad's friend was and he said, and my mother's name was Kimiko. And he always used to call her Kimi. And he said to her at the boat, don't worry, Kimmy, he said, put his arm around her and says there won't be a chopstick missing when you return. And then when we were in the camps in 1943, that's when mom and dad found out that their home and property was sold without their consent, what that happened to all the Japanese people, like in the Fraser Valley there with over 13,000 acres. And then there was a man by the name of Mr. kagetsu. on Vancouver Island, he was had over 300 acres because he was a logger. He had that company. Well, I think it went all went to Macmillan. Bloedel, because I've got a book written about that. Anyhow,

Unknown Speaker 12:59
it was a universal policy. It may not have been any particular person.

Unknown Speaker 13:04
Oh, no. British Columbia was such a read. If you ever read the history of British Columbia, it was so racist from the time the first Chinese came then the Japanese, then the Indo Canadians. And then the people who who influenced Mackenzie King, the Prime Minister, were the politicians from British Columbia. Like Ian L is not either in what does he and Alexander Mackenzie, and then the guy who was the first chairman of the Legion here, McIntosh, MacGregor McIntosh, he was a member of parliament for Nanaimo, in the islands. And you now let Ian McAllister at whatever hill but his name, but he was the only liberal Member of Parliament in British Columbia for Vancouver center. Now, he was a racist, out and out like David Lewis when he writes about himself, and he influenced Mackenzie King the cabinet. Well, you know, they don't know the West. So and for political reasons, they they rabble rousers, the people who already were racist, anyway, you know what I mean? They're my parents were like that. Very, very racist. And so they moved 22,000 of us from within 100 miles from the coast. And, anyhow, but so we were talking about the graveyard But mom and dad were the only ones who returned. No, my uncle Victor and his family returned to Saltspring island in 1948, we weren't allowed to return till April the first of 1949. But because Victor's wife was so sick, the doctor said that she had to leave the prairies and come back here for her health if she was going to survive. So she got special dispensation to return to Saltspring island in 48. And the place that they that his last name was Ocana. Yeah. She was married to my mother's brother, Victor. And when Victor and Evelyn and two of the children returned, here they were, there was a farm at the end of Fernwood road. And the farmer there was very kind and let them live there. Who doesn't like to talk about the past because she finds it so awful. Anyhow, so they were living there. And I don't know if they were in a cottage or what? And there was a she called them vigilantes, Saltspring, Island vigilantes, they came and said to the farmer, you get those chaps out of there, we're going to burn your your barn down. So my uncle Victor and Evelyn said, Oh, no to the farmer, you've been really kind to us. And we can't let that happen to we'll move out. And what they did was they moved to my grandfather's farm, at the end of on sharp road. And the person who owned their farm at that time, let them live in a packing house. And a shed. And Victor told me that people would come and look in the window to see what they look like. Anyhow, he stayed here for a little while. And he started the first television Repair, repair business on Saltspring island, but he didn't find it too comfortable. So he moved to Victoria. Big land. So he was already moving when we my mom and dad returned to Salt Spring. So mom and dad were the only ones who really stayed here and started all over again. And they did. And the very first place that we went to, when we returned was the graveyard. And it was a big shock. A big shock to all of us, right. And I remember mom talking, and there was a huge pine tree, or it was the Evergreen of a sword that was growing right in front, at the entrance of our cemetery. And it had been cut down. Anyhow. And you know, my mom was four feet nine. And she found out who was responsible for this cemetery. And I think it was William Morris, his name was she really went and gave her a piece of her mind. But anyhow, so we went every Sunday to clean that place up. And right now, like, you know, Richard and I aren't spring chickens anymore. And even if that is, I'm sure, Richard been going out there putting the wood preservative on the cedar posts. And he had a man made these little copper caps to put on top of the post. So it would I'm sure they would last quite a few years longer because they're already over 50 years old. Those are. Yeah, and so but I said to Richard, you know, when we die, and those posts, rot, no one's gonna know who those people are. That's buried there. Yeah, so we're spending Richard and I decided that we asked someone Langley to the stone guy, make Yeah, we're gonna put a stone by every post. So So and I'm gonna leave the post there. And if they right away, at least the names will be on the stones. So that's what we're doing right now. Morons making the stones for us right now. I tried to get some money from people to help the the Japanese. The National Association of Japanese Canadians gave me a little bit of money, but hardly covers what it's going to cost us but that doesn't matter. It's just the idea of, of going back to the days when we came back and all the markers were gone. But daddy had to carve those cedar posts because we couldn't afford to put any stones on those. But at least mom and dad has at least the name. They couldn't remember Number all the dates, but for the stones were putting up at least I have at least a surname. And either when they were born, or when they died, or some I have more information. So, and then there were 11 families on Saltspring islands. And among them, there were three bachelors. And one of the bachelors came back. And 5455 As soon as we were allowed to return to British Columbia, because we weren't allowed to return to British Columbia. And he came back thinking that mum and dad had come back to because Mum and Dad were always kind to the three bachelors. And but he died before we were able to come back. And so the three died. Yeah. And then the other two died in the camps. Oh, yeah. And Mom and Dad was able to get the ashes of one and had them send it to us send it to them. So they put that so he's buried up there. The ashes. But the third one, I'm still looking for him. But I don't think I'll, I'll find him because in the camps, there were Buddhists. Churches, some. And I think when they broke up the camps, they probably buried all those ashes. Somewhere in one raid or something. Yeah. So. So that one guy, oh, I know his name, but we'll never be able to bring him back here. So just symbolically. Yeah, exactly.

Unknown Speaker 21:57
You remember the name? Oh, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 21:58
I know. That's, that's the important part. But But I don't have his ashes to put in there. Right. No. So yeah, anyhow. So have you gone up to the, you know, the cemetery a

Unknown Speaker 22:16
couple of times and looked around. Richard told me about the layout there. Well.

Unknown Speaker 22:23
My mum and dad's grave as Lizzie know what, at the very beginning of the grave of the Japanese Canadian section, like on the end is mom's cousin and in the middle there was also a grave there already, because my aunt had died. And then my grandfather died when we were in Alberta, so we brought his ashes back. And then my grandmother died when we had moved back here so there's a candle grave. And then there's a MER kami grave because my mum and dad's there. And then my little my brother who died in 1933 he was just a baby. So that's in the front and and then there's the most of the others is are those posts that Daddy put in in it? Strangely,

Unknown Speaker 23:24
how many posts are still there that need stones? Eight by many. Oh, so you're just gonna do the to

Unknown Speaker 23:30
find meat? No, no, we're gonna put the eight down.

Unknown Speaker 23:33
What are you What are you looking for some

Unknown Speaker 23:35
help? Oh, yeah. But then it's not coming. So we're gonna pay for it. Not that's not here nor there. But there's one grave stone that wasn't destroyed. And it was quite an old one. Gosh. Anyhow, section. Yeah. And when I came back to Saltspring Island, I looked at his name and I wrote to the the Japanese Council, because it has his name and where he was from and when mom and that and I went to Japan. I remember going to City Hall of a small city. And they had and they wanted to find out. I think they wanted to find out. Mrs. To saqa. Misses the mother of the 17.

Unknown Speaker 24:40
They wanted to find out where she was buried, know where she

Unknown Speaker 24:42
was alive yet. She was alive. So we went to the city hall and mom and dad gave the name and they went to the back somewhere and we waited for a half hour and they came up with her name and her address and all this kind of stuff. Kevin no in Japan. So I knew that they kept meticulous notes. So when I like a birth certificate, well, I don't know what they have, but they keep these records if the city hall or whatever they called wasn't bombed out, all the audit documents are still intact. So when I looked at this man's name on the gravestone, here, I wrote it all down, and I asked the Japanese Consul, if he would look it up for me, because it said, What city from Japan he had come. So he phones me up, the council phoned me up and says, you know, there is a name like that in the Vancouver phonebook.

Unknown Speaker 25:47
So when you see the Japanese Consul, do you mean Vancouver?

Unknown Speaker 25:51
Yeah. In Japan? No, there's a Japanese consulate in Vancouver, there's an office there. So he said, I talked to the lady there, and she might be the person that you would want to talk to. So he gave me the name and number and all that, and I phoned her up. And that turned out to be the granddaughter of the man who's buried there. And she when she was a child, she said she remembered her encore, some relative going to one of the islands to visit a grave, but she couldn't remember the grave. So anyhow, I told her the name and what was on the grave, although they've got the surname spelt wrong. And she said that it was it was her uncle. And so within 10 days on me talking to her, she came to the island with her daughter. And so I met them wherever at the ferry, and I drove him to the graveyard. And they were very emotionally because she was wondering which I Oh, yeah. And so was it an uncle or grandfather? Anyhow? It's a very close relationship. And she said, I think it was her uncle. Or how did that or was it her? Because she said to me that he came to Canada and left his wife and a young child in Japan. And he had come to work here, and I don't know how he died. But he died very young at age 28. And so she came with her daughter, and they had a little ceremony. And anyhow, I was glad that I got her because then she, she phoned me up in about a month or two and told me she had cancer. And she was dead within a very short period of time, and, and her daughter did come once or twice after to see the grave. So at least I know, somebody who's connected with that gravely. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 28:19
so that's one, two.

Unknown Speaker 28:21
And then there's the core family. There's one. One family the Nakata family. nakaka. Naka, yeah. And a Ka. And

Unknown Speaker 28:32
the other one was my immortal.

Unknown Speaker 28:34
No.

Unknown Speaker 28:37
The girl and her uncle

Unknown Speaker 28:38
on that what's called, in no way, but they've spelt it. You know whether you can see there's an old stone there.

Unknown Speaker 28:46
So that's, anyway and then to Sokka and

Unknown Speaker 28:50
Yashi. No, no, is not welcome back. You're welcome by Sia de vos husband. Oh, yeah. But what was he going? Oh, yeah. And the Canada family. My mom and dad phoned him up, and they came right away and put stone on their grave. Yeah. And my sister Mary met one of the Nakata family members, who works at UBC, she's an ombudsman for the students. My sister Mary met her because she really, really pushed to have a special complication for the Japanese Canadian students who were kicked out of university 1942 paper. Yeah, yeah. My sister worked three years on that to get them to bring that around day

Unknown Speaker 29:53
one they had their will remain on and to about the high school.

Unknown Speaker 29:57
Oh, yeah, but that was silly. That girl, it should have been held here because this is the high school she used to live. The family used to live on main island. But a few years before we were forced out, they lived on Saltspring Island. And my grandfather, in those days, you can do whatever you wanted. Right? So my grandfather had built a house for that family on his land on sharp road. And so the family lived here. So I said to Mary, well, why did she go the main island? For God's sakes? She went to school, the latter years here on Saltspring. Right. So anyhow, I don't know what else I can tell you.

Unknown Speaker 30:44
Well, you You already did a lot.

Unknown Speaker 30:49
Get a lot of what

Unknown Speaker 30:51
row of writing down all the different information?

Unknown Speaker 30:56
Did you mean my little book? Yeah, I did. Yeah. I could have written more. But I'm gonna funnel arena and see if

Unknown Speaker 31:07
we're still we're still interested in finding out more about who made the charcoal and how they did it. What would they use? How they are, they

Unknown Speaker 31:15
may not know how you don't know how. But the people who wrote about the charcoal pits on main island? I find we found the name of one person? No, but they write it up who wrote it up.

Unknown Speaker 31:32
But I need an internet connection to find it for you. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 31:36
well, that's all right. I don't need to know. But I thought maybe they would tell you. And I read it somewhere how they made it, but I can't remember where it was. Well, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 31:46
Well, there's a lot of there's a lot of general information I see. But the specific information that

Unknown Speaker 31:52
that that I doubt very much interested in

Unknown Speaker 31:55
how the Japanese yen, because it was probably using Japanese technique. That's

Unknown Speaker 32:02
right. It's too bad. Especially I don't think the kids would know but it's too bad. You Vons father, who was the oldest, he probably would have known but he long dead. He's gone now. So because he was the oldest of the seven possible

Unknown Speaker 32:15
using the internet now that you can do research? Yeah, maybe to find out how it was done in Japan.

Unknown Speaker 32:24
Yeah, because anyhow,

Unknown Speaker 32:26
steelmaking was was really important, right industry, but

Unknown Speaker 32:30
I don't think it was dealmaking. They

Unknown Speaker 32:33
they really use them in the boats in the steam boats. And

Unknown Speaker 32:38
gosh, I can't even remember who he sold it to.

Unknown Speaker 32:43
Well, that's the other question as to hell title that we could do a title search.

Unknown Speaker 32:50
You know, and then that other thing about my part that really makes me mad.

Unknown Speaker 32:54
We can do a title search and find out where the ownership coin

Unknown Speaker 33:01
did I tell you about last? You know, when we came back, Mr. McAfee, David McAfee. My mom and dad knew Mr. McAfee. He used to have locksmith. That's right. Yeah, we're save on gas. Yeah, he owned land. At the entrance of all that park in front of law Park, as well as all that land, which is called law at

Unknown Speaker 33:27
Park. I'm doing CPU and drink. Yeah, right.

Unknown Speaker 33:29
Yeah. And lots of other plates. He was the bachelor. And when we came back, he was still alive. Yeah. And he would walk every single day. I don't know where he walk. But he would stop and talk to mom and dad because mom and dad knew him before we were exiled because he was a blacksmith, and he would help them shoe their horses and fix their metal and implements and stuff. And, and he I can still see him as I'm talking to you. Because when I come home, I was coming home from school every day. He seemed he I would meet him right at our entrance as he's coming down rainbow road going home. And he tipped his bowler hat. And he always had a sports jacket. I can't remember if he had a tie. But he had a pipe in here, the king and he would stop and talk to mom and dad often. And he said to mom and dad. We had a fireplace. And you know, we were very poor mom used to send us out there to eat, find weeds and send us to the ocean to get clams, whatever. And so she said to Mom and Dad, you're welcome to go up there and cut the trees and get the logs so you can burn it in your fireplace. So because that park borders mom and dad's land or land here, so that used to go up there and in fact he used to first of all get rid of them when false, and cut them up and it was really quite clean. And then one day and then Mr. McAfee said mom and dad, he's, you know, when I die, I'm gonna leave that to the people of Saltspring Island.

Unknown Speaker 35:16
Okay, so we had that as well.

Unknown Speaker 35:18
Yeah. Right. And so, one day Gavin Mike comes to mom and dad says, you know, you can't go and cut those trees anymore up there. Because it's going to become a park. Oh, and mom and dad wasn't surprised and it was going to become a part of McAfee, right? His name was David McAfee. But the thing that really shocked them. And to this day, I'm gonna try and find out what kind of thing that Gavin did. Instead of being called McAfee Park, it turned out to me, Morgan Park. And I know the lawyer who was on that maneuver. And Gavin, what's

Unknown Speaker 35:59
his name?

Unknown Speaker 35:59
I'm not gonna tell you because I don't want to get into trouble. Oh, you're still alive? Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 36:04
Well, because he would be the one that had the had the will. Right.

Unknown Speaker 36:08
And so Gavin, changed it into more bark instead of McAfee Park. So I call it we call it McAfee park because it belongs. It was so he was a scam.

Unknown Speaker 36:22
So you think that lawyer we can the trouble for doing that? No. No professional?

Unknown Speaker 36:27
Yeah, I don't want I he gave me some directions to how I can find out. All I'll help you with the land and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, whose name it was?

Unknown Speaker 36:37
Well, Arvid was going to get me. Old arbitrator say give me the legal description.

Unknown Speaker 36:43
Yeah, it would be great if you can find out the legal description of the park and all that land. Yeah, around there.

Unknown Speaker 36:50
And then the islands Trust has all the maps are they doing? So I was I'm still waiting for I first

Unknown Speaker 36:56
came back I started and I wherever they keep those documents. I just have too much.

Unknown Speaker 37:03
It costs you have to pay money to do a title search. Yeah. And there's, there's superficially a title search, and then there's a deep title search, but Arvid knows about those things. Yeah, they said it

Unknown Speaker 37:14
was too old and they couldn't find it. Yeah, something like that. Something like that. But

Unknown Speaker 37:19
okay, I'll I'll work on that and let you know how,

Unknown Speaker 37:21
you know, I told you about sunset drive right. It belonged to Mr. Iwasaki almost 640 acres. And Gavin had it when he was the custodian of enemy alien property. He had that mystery was Sakis land transferred from mystery about Sakis title to the Secretary of State and from the Secretary of State to Salt Spring land, which Gavin owned. And he bought 640 acres for $5,250. Well, he was a steal, right, while everybody's land was stolen mystery was like it took it all the way up to the Supreme Court

Unknown Speaker 38:05
of Canada. That would be 48. No, no, no, it

Unknown Speaker 38:10
was after. It was after the government made the decision that they compensation. They can know they can sell our land without our consent. There was no compensation. My mum and dad had 17 acres. They had 5000 egg laying chickens, they had berries and vegetables, and it was a thriving farm. And when the government confiscated, or what they did was they took all the real estate fees, auctioneers fees, all that kind of stuff. And there was $500 left. And they put that $500 into mom and dad's bank account. But mom and dad, all the bank accounts that belonged to the Japanese Canadians were frozen. Mom and dad had no access to it. Even if they would say, when my brother was born into cash, she went to the office and said, Could I take some of my money out so I can buy some clothes for my new baby? And they said, No, you can't. And another time when we were in this little camp Valley, we were forced to live in a tent in the middle of winter. So she went to the office and said, you know, we come from Salt Spring Island. We don't have this kind of winter. Can I have some of my money to buy clothes for my children? And they said no. But what they did, but they look at the size of your family. And then they say all you need this much money to buy food and stuff. So they made us pay for our own incarceration. And so by the time that camp broke up, and they sent us into the sugar beet field, there was nothing left and mom and dad back. You know what I mean? I do. Oh, yeah. So when we came back, that he tried to buy that land back

Unknown Speaker 39:55
reactions rotor

Unknown Speaker 39:57
that's a sharp bro Yeah, and it was The

Unknown Speaker 40:02
sharp philosophy Labs was so busy that

Unknown Speaker 40:06
the man who owned it, Perry Newman and his family had, he was a returning veteran because many of the lands like daddy's worse, so two returning veterans. And but he didn't want to sell it. So that's how we ended up buying this part here. It was just and so we just barely had enough money to buy the scrub land and the house here. Right. And that's how we started again.

Unknown Speaker 40:36
This is 5454. I got it. I understand. And it was

Unknown Speaker 40:40
so and we were not welcome. I can tell you a story about that. Yeah. What even to this day, we there's a lot of racist.

Unknown Speaker 40:51
Well, so they had a vote at the Chamber of Commerce. It turned down John Cornell. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 40:56
yeah. But that was that islands trust. Yeah. But the thing? Yeah, but it was two to one. And that one who voted for John, he was bought because you know, before during the election, John canals sponsored a tea for that man. What's his name for answered? I can't remember his name. So how, how were they?

Unknown Speaker 41:25
Well, anyhow, and the way it's probably done, it's finished now.

Unknown Speaker 41:29
Oh, yeah. But look at how much time and energy and all the years and years I was discussing, David,

Unknown Speaker 41:35
and he may he may want some kind of revenge. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 41:39
yeah. Well, you know,

Unknown Speaker 41:41
he likes to fight.

Unknown Speaker 41:42
He's a bully every time. The time he was in kindergarten. He'd been known as a bully. Oh, yeah. He's done terrible things to us.

Unknown Speaker 41:52
If I interrupted your lunch, and kind

Unknown Speaker 41:55
of make our lunch. Oh, yeah. Sorry. I'll do what I can. I

Unknown Speaker 42:00
will too. And I'll get back to you after I talked to ours. And I'll get some information on the charcoal Pixon All right.

Unknown Speaker 42:09
I've got your card on my desk.

Unknown Speaker 42:11
Guy. We'll take a little while. These things take a long time to understand that. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 42:22
I hope you didn't leave any bugs here. I hope so.