Salt Spring Island Archives

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Arthur John Hepburn and Florence Mabel (Grove) Hepburn

Art Hepburn
Accession Number Interviewer
Date [1970-1973]
Media tape mp3




Speaker 1 0:01
But we came here in 1911. We had gone east for the summer, the mother nurse for children and father was out looking for a new farm and just sold the one we had back in Victoria. And when we came back all we knew he'd bought a piece somewhere on the island or was a great adventure. We came up on Labor Day and writing letters. And we loved Victoria on the steamer Joan which was running at the time. At the time took the best part of the days I recollect to come up here right here sometime in the afternoon and father course had been here all summer it was caring that he clearing the land. He had a crew working here we call him with him timber and certainly was all burned. This is all really big timber. Quick collapse victims of the government has cut down on the road here but illogical. And all this big field below what we call the gravel pit, which doesn't she big stumps four or five feet. She's all burning. What was a wonderful venture press kid who went around we roasted corn and apples and Springboard whole center of discomfort burnout at the sapwood holder eating but the fire the springboard hold for the glimpse into the furnace. We put apples and corn in Washington. The first trip was that it was 19 Lebanon Labor Day 19. But this house was standing, it was built somewhere around 1900 If there's no local name mangling or Fred range is your local carpenter. But he wasn't the original horror either. Way back in prehistory, you might say it was squatted on by one of the Negroes and then all thinned. The Women's family was there two brothers who was old bill and Clark. Clark squatted on this place. And all Bill had a cabin where the tennis courts are back of the footprint in where the hamburger conscious Clark had died and rains at the place and the neighbors used to Josh and after we'd ever seen all Clark's ghosts because he was repeatedly buried up on the side relation to where it was. And we dug him out. That must have been late 30s. They were hauling gravel out to build a logging road down here and everything. I think he was a Swede with loading the gravel, and he turned out this coffin of the bones of it. And he was so upset to hit the trees down and pick up the goons and take him away. That was the original setup. So that goes back to prior to 1875. Because jives took up the land leaving the balance of these two sections above us was taken out in 75. And the only reason he didn't get this piece was all Clark for squatting on here and he wouldn't disturb him. But when he died and reigns took the property or was crowned granted one year later that was the first history of this place. That was settled down the road for much of where they are not all they were very crooked from Bernie now. Is there a road from Ganges right down to Fulton? Yes. I don't know what year that was built. But for years before there was a walking trail and again, it came along the beach from from Ganges along to what they call the maples and came up through just about where Marcia Sharpsville takes off on the battlefield came up there and went through up through England Grayson came out what is now 100 hills just before you get into what we call the rock crusher corner, we went through that go a Christian Lake and follow the rest of the town as well. That was the first communication. And it was quite a trip I guess in those days because old Jim Anderson was one of the old timers he was born and he told me one time he was boy he was about to lie for 1718 Two men on a McFadden and Rogers at a store at a portrait. And Rogers, his daughter was I think Rajesh married McFadden's daughter. And the preacher lived in guarantees. You hired Jim to guide him. From guarantees to perfect come down to the wedding. For 75 cents, Jim was to guide him for Fulford and go home and knock his cows and come back the following day and guide him back again. So they haggle over the price. The first firm price was 50 cents. And if he got more for the ceremony, he would get 75 cents. So when the wedding is true, Rajesh was a beautiful, bow hard, like making an impression. And he says, well learn what alone you owe you for this. And the preacher said a loud voice, some pays five. But then of course, he says some pays 10 and hajus, of course, paid in the 10. So it didn't pay 75 cents. The devil trip from guarantees. To top it on foot

Speaker 2 6:51
was the last time was her dredge across Boko Haram,

Speaker 1 6:57
the bridge strand from the throat by drum and there were the road comes down and it came out on the Catholic Church point. Now that was gone when we came here, but some of the pilot was still dead in the water. Now the purpose and I'm rich Well, there was no way getting across the creek. The fee all the way from again, D we're in the water they're wise off Isabella point. That is all Phil, America after free. And that was put in our range had the government power over us government power drivers last year. He floated the the power driver and road pilot along that road, some of them are still standing there hold the field was putting behind it so that he could make that approach across the street and come around by the Catholic Church and that was the first go around.

Speaker 2 8:04
What when you came in? This was 1911 Who were those people living in Fulton at that time? Was there

Speaker 1 8:16
any very convenient code or no ferries the boat came in every other day. From Victoria it went from Victoria to Vancouver one day in Vancouver Victoria the second day. We had the boat every other day here are the seven ones on the boat used to ground who should decide to phantom out to Vancouver and come back on the other side either as an orphan even though it was a war but we reappoint Andy Fernwood. Should we Musgrave and Burke Long Bay we're going Bay was the first war. It was driven with an oak hammer. It was cut off the mountain old guys built it first pile driver and the hammer was made of a big oak. That was the first fork that was driven on on Saltspring Island Bergling. I don't know what year that would be.

Speaker 2 9:25
Was there any kind of a settlement at any

Speaker 1 9:32
particular time? There was no starch perfect then there had been one for a short time. But it was close. And the nearest store was halfway up the valley crushing the dice. On the road there there's an umbrella tree stands towards the road variety is living. Well that was in the front yard of the first door And he had a little shadow war he put feed in steam and he would come down on Steam again and meet the speaker and dispense feed the farmers who came down to ship stuff and then go back but for sure, ya know as far as we hadn't got routing

Unknown Speaker 10:22
well what many people doing this?

Speaker 1 10:25
What was the name? It was mixed farming fruit. Me for veal everything would be sold and every steamer came in, there'd be four or five people shipping something out eggs or a calf or a couple of big rubies or boxes of apples or, or do potatoes. He before. There was no direct communication with California the industry hadn't started yet. And all victorious over potatoes came from here. It was quite a good thing to go 43 This year, but now the California market is killed that there was no Okanagan. So all the food that was consumed out here was grown on yarn. And that's where you see all these old orchards. I mean, they're old fashioned apples now and you can sell them the orchard pasture, and the Okanagan undercuts them and then over a bunch. But at one time this used to produce two thirds of Victorious requirements in the fresh fruit meat vegetables came from the islands. Because this these islands were settled before the bulk of Santos

Unknown Speaker 11:48
can see you've got to realize that the history is so short.

Speaker 1 11:56
You see, Victoria was only founded in 49. And the Gold Rush was 58 was admitted Barkerville the Fraser River bars the original settlement here before that the first settlers came to Salt Springs. They were the unsuccessful ones from the Goldfields, which had a winter someplace and they came out here and chopped out an acre and Google few days just to live on. We would like to game and we're tougher. And those the first settlers who came in who know any original settlers know the second flight we were at one time. And then when the Hudson Bay forces in Victorian 49. And any place that they had a trading post, they had Farms, big farms, because they had all their mentors fly. And they supplied food grain for their interior porch. And their land transportation fire horses all by horses, of course. It should be opened up in the Fraser Valley up to Fort Fraser in those places. And they had hundreds of horses which require hundreds of tons of hay, hundreds of bags votes. So they had these big firms where the Hudson Bay farms were first on San Juan Island. And then when they had the trouble with the states, and it was arbitrated and kind of lost the San Juan Islands. But the Hudson Bay had these big farms and they were staffed largely with men from the Hawaiian Islands connectors. Now when they lost that they brought all their men over here and they were settled on Saltspring Island all the south individuals came out it was settled by connected which came from the Hudson Bay farms from San Juan I knighted states to better and then of course show the things were coming to a head in the United States or the slavery was postponed the civil war now. There were a lot of free nibbles, not necessarily slated, but through free negotiable. See for hundreds of years that never been slaves lived in California. But they could see the royal coming and if the south one. California became a slave state. They were in a rather precarious predicament. And they were quite well to do they had money in well, a lot of them educated people. And they sent a deputation up to Publishing's governor and he granted them land on Saltspring for the rabbit hole check loaded and they settle at what we call a separate step central settlement. They've landed the Vesuvius and they're farms were between Vitruvius and wherever the Public Works yard is the posture of the central tenant that really gets changed. And that was the first settlement up on that. And that was long before there was any communication between there and here. Were like to separate two separate settlement. And then the third settlement on the island was what he calls Beggs it was just not a framework or half a mile up in the air, you can still see the remains they will chimneys and the way they used to get to the store, they had a lot of storage. And when they wanted to come across the pursuers which was the main port, they work for St. Mary's Lake and they kept canoes on St. Mary's Lake and paddle the length of the lake and then walk from there in the zoom us to restore and that was a long time after that before there was only rolled into Yankee in the first road in the Ganges is what we call the bullock road, it goes through the back of the golf course and comes in around into that roadway around that lake. That's where you get the upper Ganges road. And years afterwards take up the road in the deep and present Highway, which is glorious, and that's where they got to me but they they moved around a lot. They didn't have it. They just squatted on the land. She wasn't surveyed, they wish to use it and if they got dissatisfied with feast accounting just move over on to the next

Speaker 2 16:54
Did you ever have these people telling about what life is like are there any Indians? I mean, I just reported that there were no Indians living outside.

Speaker 1 17:05
Yeah, so we're one couple left here and we came here still won't resume the reserve but I don't think there was any big settlement here or there must have been pre historically just the Midland style along the bay their teeth along the head of the bay mission. People who take the Indian artifacts from this mud or to do and nobody has been out because it gave them all away and got me here but just to the first settlers were in the valley, I don't really know the acronyms pullback along wage. She I think was the first all white and the restaurant variation from an Ikea Indian Negro and some married to three times, under two families. They married three times and had one from each race. So they were all very long stuff. But they pretty well, almost every issue in this uniqueness zone where they No, no their first holding was you know where the royal poplars is in the middle of the valley. That 10 acre field on this side if you look up there, you'll see a bunch of apple trees Well back in a row their first house was there. And for some reason, I don't know why. They gave it up and moved down to friendship triangle that's the original house on that site is incorporated just overall taking meetings as they are now. But their first place was up on that note. And I asked Jed one time he was born in that house. And what is now Roger hugeness would belong to two brothers and Mr. Robbins people prefer daycare out in the first time they were partners by trade and one brother fell off the roof broke his leg and of course waited for it he had no status there were no doctors when they got better you didn't he didn't so the other brother gave up move away and sometime after that they can get down low but the most of that land in the valley was true but an actual boys working for wage was all longer holding burn the wood no solace and the chapter tree down or your board to do outer holes at right angles and potholes in one. Use the other for a clue is a bunch of trees down when you have lunch or lunch or another stage

Speaker 1 20:10
Fortunately Indians got along reasonably well because they got along reasonably well because the Hudson Bay held a source of supply blankets from their muskets and their ammunition all came from the Hudson Bay which are quite thin. But they had a real scanner again the negros and they had a rough time with here. And there was nothing was a lot of them bushwhack lineage. And that's for your Robinson story comes in. Well, this old Jim he was born in Ghana is his mother was quite well, mother and father were quite well to do and they heard I was stood where the Trading Company and the creeks goes through between the cleaners underneath the jewelry store, there was a Ford there was no bridge. And she used to sit on her brand and the Trading Company was nothing in between encounter cattle coming home across the Ford at night. And we're remote brothers isn't on the point was an island. You could go across it low water. And that's where the Indian settlement was out on that point. Now Jim's mother, Jim was due to be born a few days, and the Chiefs wife on the point on the island. His wife had a child and they were most born about the same day and they had a kind of accustomed and then the mother didn't look after the child and and took it was the first difficult weeks. So they had this chance. And the sister of the chief took the Chiefs son, and Mrs. Anderson son, which was Tim, and she raised the two of them on that point. And you walked across a little water you see across there, that was it. There was no road there at all, Phil. Now, I talked to Rocco one time. They were the first settlers in any serious way, be repoint. They had a shoot, they sailed up from Victoria. And built there and Henry told me that he was 20 odd years old, before he ever saw again, because he said there was no way of getting there then took the whole day. And they went up had a chance for a ride up in somebody's sailing boat and went up again. And he remembers Jim being out on this Indian account for the first time the first Negro he had ever seen with Jim Allison. So you could date that by checking back on Henry's life. He's 80 some odd years old now and figure back when he was 20. And that was all open country. Elaborate just about the time the Ganges was starting to become a settlement. There was nothing else there and for that. But Jim was dead father died. I don't know the circumstances. And she remarried first one remarried immediately noticed that he had ever man, the family. And she married a man and Eva Robbins. And they had a farm up on St. Mary's lake. And they had a very bad winter buy in and the lake froze. And their cattle went out on the lake and went through the ice. And they lost a bunch of them. So they gave it up and they moved down into what we call foon hollow where that big hill is on the Robinson road. Well, that was the Anderson place in there. And that's where that's where they lived for the Robinson road comes in. And that was the place where they shot through the window and killed Robinson. But there was several in the family. I don't know how many one of the daughters married Mansell, the man Sir road. And they owned the property in back and that was part of the part of the Anderson holding it because if you didn't have 500 1000 acres, you didn't have any land in those days. You just took in all you could reach and they came here in 59 some of them stayed in Victoria few round Saanich and the bounce of unsettled up around the north end of the island and that's when the colored population came on. Yeah. And the first school teacher was was an eagle on the up there. How many neighbors were there, right Something oh I don't know if there must have been 20 odd in my day. But I don't know how many there were originally. A lot of them died or moved away. And there's one or two December still here the woods boy. Some of the original settlers, third generation but then you want to go back to the farm. Well, we milked cows, there was a creamery in Ganges and there was a price weekly pick up old pop Burg go from beer point or Parson wagon and picked up cream all on the road and delivered to pretty rain and Ganges and they made the famous offspring butter which was the premium grade because all the prizes to furnish it the King and Queen when they were out here and everything else for Saltspring Island, and that was really the backlog the mainstay that was steady. You've always counted on your cream check. And then whatever you grew but we built 1012 head of cattle here all the time and we made butter when we first came here. We took it across to the Victorian sold at the public market. And then later on we made cheese because the competition was so stiff there but he made butter but we were the only ones that made cheese and we took it in and sold in the market. And by that time they were they were starting to get a few gas boats around here a gasoline engine I forgotten who the first one was it started up oh yes. George Lasseter ran the first weekly trip around twice a week I think from here to Sydney. And you took the train in America Victoria. And then later on after the First World War than they got to the Japanese trucks open truck that wouldn't wouldn't see time in your rhodian are not in Victoria. And that's how we took your stuff into salad at the heavy stuff, beef and stuff like that all went on the steamer kept it here and they produce a lot of stuff on this island. And we mail cows and we had pigs. We had the 202 pigs on this place when we used to buy our grain from the Fraser Valley and we'd love little steamers run around here small boats, little tramp steamers kitchen cargoes for the for the neighbor bring down bale hay and grain sack grain from farms up in the Fraser Valley and we used to buy 4050 tonne of grain time and whatever we wanted 10 tonne of hay and we bought into forward on these little steamers and we haul it up here we had meals, we didn't have horses. We always have meals on this case. And we fed the we fed our pigs whole barley sugar beets boiled. We had a big boiler and we used to grow acres of sugar beach and feeds them the calorie fed to corn ensilage mostly bought a little green supplement and we used to buy the bulk of our hay because we didn't have land enough but the cattle ran out. Ran while on the road faster dope. All summer we have 25 head of cattle on the mountain all the time. Until gradually gotten settled up Nick got to be too much of a nuisance to you just faded out.

Unknown Speaker 28:44
Who was your nearest?

Speaker 1 28:49
The next place was vacant. That was had belonged to a man named Fisher who later moved out to rush latrine to get out there. He was wondering I didn't want to he was original one but he went long way back. He was the first one that put fish in that lake he carried them over from Cushing Lake and Nicola. They stopped every 100 yards and port one in cannons the other to oxygenate the water and he put the first trout in store Lake. He said it was 13 years from the time they got the first fish in before they took one out. And they were the family name of pushers are quite large family. They don't own a lot of lands who here and he is supposed to be buried on that little island in the trees on the end of the store make. But our first neighbor beyond that was Jamaican. He was the second youngest vehicle and boy he was born in that blog post in the valley. of it he wasn't the richest segment there was a Dutchman the name of her Dutchman or an Austrian think he was the name of Arnold on that I think cleared it unless some of the pushers had cured some before Ireland became this has been was back into history. And he was our nearest neighbor. He was about a mile that way on this side. The only one we had was remote family that's less bought. And the person is owned right down to the water down there at that time and their house stood just in front of less house was a log house. We were still standing there for years after we came here. And he lived there Molot spawn but let's find everybody was to say mixed farming where you had little fruit you chipped a little bit of cream, and we raised a couple of bees and a few pigs, but we were more or less big business and we had we've not 10 had a cow for everybody else milk too and where they had a couple of pigs we had 100 of them and we that was it man many as 200 here to hold John this time. And that big barn on there, that concrete foundation still there. We built that 1912 That's the silo on the end of its navy gun silo, the corn for that brother and I we and mother and the girls we lived in Victoria the old home and Victoria and we came up weekends and holidays and summer holidays. And that was our job and come up here with Shin beach and hold on Hold hold corn and then beat all summer long. end of June till September started. And we used to bring up friends schoolmates in Victoria two or three of them and they worked for no wage, but you know, bonus seed boss should give them $10 At the end, but he had a heck of a good time. And we hold and and not close and so on and we went back to school in the fall that we finished.

Unknown Speaker 31:58
was no School on the island.

Speaker 1 32:01
Yes, but we were my brother and I were just starting high school. I started in high school in in 1912. I went to high school in the Victoria the president Victoria high school would have just been open shortly before that that's where I went to school we lived about two to three blocks. And then when we finished school we moved up here steady. But that time of course the Ward had brought home and gone and the start of the Great Depression started then things went to pot right after the war. And the farmer's income went down and down and down. And we covered those and we found that we're whole family before it was in the light to dark for about $2 a day gross wages you might say besides our food and and so we sold the thing up and the boys were not wanting to work I went fishing soldier farm no other family lived here. See father was old he was he was 75 when he was married and just getting up shouldn't be something like that them and wasn't too well. And they just live here and we get out westward and I went logging across the bay we got the princely sum of $5 that was top wages were falling. Gosh I love that love because to me they're 1920 2122 the burnt that off the big pharma devil now 23 We lost the primary output of this virgin timber then. And that summer I left with I made enough money there at that camp Bible and go fishing up the west coast a lot in life at this particular time but it was all done with horses. There had been donkeys on the island this side of the corporate Valley was logging to speak timber that was Donkey low ground yard no no high lead in those days. It was all ground guarding and all the other logging number horses. Timber was all filled by hand and withholding with horses on skid row. So you can only go back so far and they came on economic left you went back too far. But the original logging was handled with stomped right into the water. And then the next bunch went around and partial loads it and then of course he started to get bulldozers and things like that and trucks came in later on and then each one moved back another four or five miles and now they go anywhere make their own roads as they go distances nothing 50 Miles not at all Okay now that we horse logged over there and I love this call George Stewart please for tambling for the tame deer on the back row. I love that 1926 is horses and we had the first note the second logging Cook was ever on Salisbury we brought over here from Cobble Hill and truck from there come forward and went broke higher and it came to the two years to pay the wages after finished up. Pay the back wages are made to set over two years productive.

Unknown Speaker 35:44
Do when you were longing it was all you say a handle on how big were the trees

Speaker 1 35:54
were cut nothing less than two foot top would be a small log. A boom stick was just stick. If your logs you stop at first now you just clear timber went out and the rest reflect in the woods. And it was all big stuff here you'll fill it by hand with buck by hand gotten length that is and bark. You bark what to call a ride you've got to be an expert to tell which side the log would ride down with a horse. You got to strip the slide and you put the skids down on the ground want to but every 10 feet and put a dab of heavy cheap grease goldfish always quick thing Mr. Schwab on Stickney went along with every every skin and do your launch retired one behind the other the hook together with a call dogs sharp is a chain with a hook on each end and each leg was pin from the tail of one to the head of the next yard and then back to the main road singly. Then you strongly mountain maybe four or five or six according to what the lay of the land was. You couldn't pull up hill you had to go downhill all the way on U haul and from there down to the beach. But then they never took anything. You never fell a tree was to put on the stump unless you want to boost it. That was just junk. And your your timber which I remember beings and maxvill put a room in Burgoyne Bay they handled today we're going with average over 1000 feet for the law. That's pretty good. Pretty good timber that was handling and putting my hand no no horses stall. It's Jack's doing a PV install you don't know and steep ground.

Unknown Speaker 37:49
How long would it take him It all

Speaker 1 37:54
depends on which pitch you hit anything from an hour to half a day if you hit pitch in the back of it well you might be there for five or six hours. To good man because your your tools are sharp. You won't even Polish got a press show every day or buck or get one every other day. And they cut and of course you knew what you were doing. And a tree that was four feet through you cut it down in or now an hour and a half. Without any luck because you had a springboard refactored to get up when you never cut them on the ground because it was too tough. You cut them up. We're beyond the buck swelling for your own steer straight timber maybe six eight feet from the ground and you stood on springboard and shot. But saws were common. In my day there's a new lamps two new ones they had before that what they call the Old Kentucky Buckers were to flick a handsaw word like the Costco size now. And the first one of those on the island was in McAfee's blacksmith shop in Ganges and the same gym manager told me that the young boy used to come around there and borrow the saw so they could rush out and cut a tree down because they never found the tree with the saw before or something new and they run ran up to where the school is now there's all timber the Scots some discounts on that farm and they would rush over on Scott's and cut down a tree just for fun to get to use the saw was the first saw on software or whatever what they that'd be what was it? Jim came is people came here in 59 and he was born shortly after that had to be 1015 years after that anyway before he would big enough. But they slashed that whole side hill up as far as the crime We rode that was all part of Anderson tolling and they slashed all that and contract he slashed all that land around Blackburn's Lake what's now BlackBerry flake and it all grew back up again now people don't know who's ever cut and one of Jim's old famous saying was the brushes driving the young men into the seat

Unknown Speaker 40:26
today you mentioned the firing

Speaker 1 40:30
oh we had fires quite a lot of fires in the early days because the land was all cleared the fire and nobody nowhere the timber which is no value, we couldn't sell it. But this one over here we logged the bean log before and we went in and love the cedar out of it. And somebody fired I thought start starting to do different places that it was 1922 long June legacy to be and that burned all the way from Lacey's the Eau Claire Ponte a place cleanup first jives and right up to the mountain road had burnt that all off. They just let it burn no return everybody out and then build trails around that you cut it off because it was going great gun it burnt the ground as clean as a whistle just to clean this up Florida wasn't the limb laying on now all that was left after what was the big old growth timber which stood naked and we loved it that next winter up in there and you went from tree to tree in any direction with no impediment whatever. There was no brush or anything and boy was it ever black. Everything was solid certainly came out of there you could even see us at night. But it was lovely logon because it was no brush, no small stepping away at all. It was burned clean and all that timber that's up there now as groaning were natural seeding since 1922. Which led has been logged since that's a separate login.

Speaker 2 42:09
Any organization will like police or fire did you have anything

Speaker 1 42:17
that was tastefully done. Jesus knows custom officer and Ganges who had a boat, one of the Whitman College. He was the first customs officer and he covered everything from Cape Flattery, I guess and to Nanaimo. I don't know how far he's born. He had a boat and he was stripped prevented. The border customs isn't much neat, but there's no replacement again. You had Ganges, but I mean, he's been here a couple of days after we did a couple more days before he got there. So there was there was no crime settled as among yourselves. You did. And there was no wild driving because there was no cars. I think it was about two cars on the island. We came here the past three and then there was no racing because the roads are so doggone cryptically, everyplace you look towards a black stump and it was only successful six inches wide in your horse and buggy there was no crime if ignored. First car was

Unknown Speaker 43:21
brought on by Mr. Bullock

Speaker 1 43:25
not first but one of the first I think bitten torch had one of the first one just to buy they're all about the same time was two three came on about the same time. Oh, yes, no. And well. What kind of person was he? He was a wealthy Englishman was cuter it is with a full beard more silk hat top hat and what was for gloves in Windows. And it was a bachelor with a great big hole shoulder button toward built for him. And his big cry was the people were going downhill. There were no proper servants in the country. And people were laughing themselves go not keeping up the standards. And he used to take boys out of the orphanage. Were up to the time and put them in uniform and raise him up. Football footman Buckers will be in a big English country house. And then when they been there for eight or 10 years and got to be sizable a lot let me set up in business. He was very good for them. They give him an awful life is stolen blind wasted everything he had but he will decide and make no difference and then when the time to go and some of the rock farms for On and other ones you start with business now a lot of them out that way. If you've learned in solitary estate you might say it was quite the thing to be invited to balik for dinner

Speaker 2 45:16
is there somebody living now on the island was raised by a

Unknown Speaker 45:20
good eight Jesse Bond was

Speaker 1 45:31
Willie Palmer when he was a little difference he brought his mother out Mrs. Palmer out house lady housekeeper originally that Willie was brought up there he went to school with us in Victoria, fallen farmer Island and didn't know where he came from to the game here and he was from there. And it didn't work out too well and he went back to just straight boys. But for me, first foot one and second foot when he got him to cook and wait on table neon had white jackets on and when he went to dinner you had one stood behind each view each guest had a personal waiter behind him

Speaker 1 46:23
there you go. Well, there was one besides Edwards's store, there was a when we came here than we not long established a store they had a foot foot and Malema blandy had and he ran into the cannabis summer retort. And he had a store in conjunction with it was on the same property, but I don't think on the same site as the original McFadden and Roger store, which disappeared long before we were and he ran the resort there and was a good conservative. And when the Conservative government did I think was the voucher government Guardian is rewarded for the pork by opposition, all patronage the government, they built for him a dock from the head of the Bay of Tidewater right across that flap. It was narrow, it was only about five feet wide. You put them in a team walk and we'll go float on the end. And his right hand man was George last year, who was to run the bulk of the Sabrina guests over from VNS railway which running to Sydney to Landis summer resort. But he had no phone the only phone that was in there was that there was a store if you want to call him one then there was one wire ran from there to Dunkin, which was a exchange. And then they ran one from there. To Ganges, but there had been a telephone system in Ganges before that put up by the Western boys and I forgotten who else neighbors are privately the only ran from Barnsbury that's where the golf courses burnt down afterwards. That was the Wilson Hall. It ran for a minute or so in either direction, and was a bit of a wire nailed upon trees on insulators and that was the Ganti system. But the government system, rather this Duncan's receiving Central and there was one phone, Edwards's and there was one at Beaver point and there was a cable went from there to tender the one wire to the whole works for all of the Gulf Islands and to be reported to here and Duncan and the other wire. We've got police Hill and across the old divide in the Ganges that was the first sudden and I think the first lineman it was Jim Hall. I know he was on there in 1916. I've already mentioned I because I worked for him afterwards. Well then we started to expand along about 20

Unknown Speaker 49:09
Does this mean you were all on one

Speaker 1 49:12
blood poverty line? Yes, you have rings of five Long's and three shorts and forth for shorts of seven moms and all this kind of business. And they had decks every 2030 miles one on each island and you would ring that far and they would plug into the rest of the system and ring the next one because you couldn't drink from Duncanville say to main island. It would go to Beaver point and they would put a donkey in there and phone Pender and plunk Pena would pick up the jack and fold it into main island. And so on up to Galliano on all those items are served on one wire you don't get to see and that carried on right up until who I'm not sure what the first date of the exchanging in DC had a part time operator who went home for lunch and went home at five o'clock. She was on for maybe probably eight hours a day. And Ganges and then the graduate expanded well, it was starting to expand. It's in the in the 20s. And my brother had been over on he was over in Westminister. Working out on the old Scott road at a Westminister and driving a truck. We were all mechanically minded. We had one of the first cars down here, but 1914 We had a car here, took it apart every Tuesday and put it together on Friday was pretty good at that. And he got a job driving his truck for Howard Horrell as Mrs. White mouse. Her husband. Howard, was one of an old family that lived at the top of the Lee Hill with a big Rockies. They call it the rim Robins. That was the first lath and plaster house it was ever built on get on Saltspring the original horror family came here from Wisconsin all sang he drove logs in the foolproof Creek river driving now that's hard to believe it but they're still down there. One lager got strangest, and they didn't bother to go back like it's behind the bobbins how sound in the creek and he drove by damming and flooding and damage and flooding they drove logs from their Fulford harbour while they they moved away. And then the place was here vacant and Jim came back. He was a timber man wrought axe man in the smoke cigar mines build all the underground tumeric and he came back here for some reason rather and took over the place. And he was the first lineman that looked after well, Lewis no quick call singer in Vancouver that used to finance small portable sawmill. And they moved in Salt Spring about 1924 summer they're both 25 in full swing, and they brought in about 20 mills. And they were scattered all through the North End and the cranberry. And among them was Howard Hall, who was the youngest of the horrible boys. And Winnie was his wife, the time they moved in here on when they came back. My brother was driving truck for him just by happenstance over Westminster came with them and came home. Well, knowing them this, Jim's who the family will see. Jim was looking for a helper. And Bob left the meal and went to work from here misalignment, climbing poles. So that brought it around to my family. When I came home to the West Coast. I was fishing up there. And it used to come home but October in the home all winter. And I got to go out with to help my brother and that way I got my start well, I sold my boat and 25 and swallowed the anchor and came ashore here looking for work. And Jim hired an old Sri Dyneema. Frank ask and I had to go down and make telephone calls to build from the Burgoyne war. Up to the max. There was a line The line originally went down across, we're going farmed out over my strays and crossed over Seymour narrows into Duncan and the piece down there had been on tree for what's in bad shape and then we're going to pull that section at the bottom and that was my first job. Well that only lasted a couple of weeks and they wanted they were going to shift that line over onto the right hand side of bird barn and lay a new cable. The old one is no longer usable. On the right hand side is this an underwater and underwater cable came from Vancouver out on the lead from craft by Maple Bay out to where Burt Lemond lives now. And when we finished making these polls, he offered me the job of high climbing to live in these trees. The line was built on trees up there and that was my first climbing was down in there climbing those trees. Well, when I would come back from my fishing, good many years. I'd be home for a couple of months in the winter. And I always want to work on relying we'll see through my brother and Jim. And then eventually when I got married and swallowed the anchor and it was a chance to come back and take a permanent job here and I worked on the line from that on and I've built most lines on the island. I worked at them. But we all learn and the telephone came in here. And they both live from Fernwood to the PowerPoint to Duncan's for up Island But had no contact with Saltspring there was no no cut in here. It just crossed us. And it was a permanent job. Paid a monthly wage. There was only a part time job but he paid a monthly wage for a mess down by man. It wasn't a good thing because the government would be lowered Chris only temporary through few months in summer with a fine willingness on each unless you had storm damage. The starting uncertain, the wild moved over to the BC telephone. And then I had a chance to and then that BC telephone a couple of days a year later bought out government with this and it all came under and he was thinking, well, they had a farming youth to come here a construction foreman. And he used to cover all the southern BC Well, the government sold everything we had on the mainland and they were looking for a job for. For this Foreman they had to hear. And they made us a stipulation. But when the BC telephone took over, they were to take over the employees. Well, just about the time of that time before they sold it, they shifted this format for the mainland over and put him in. And then the next week they sold it so he was alive on that put my brother downward to say that he was only chapter of man after that. So he swapped over to the nine utilities and went to reuse the first electrical angle now on the stand for that. So he swapped over and work for them. So well that left the charter with a gap in the telephone business. So I had just come in and I wasn't fussy, so I moved. It was good work. Okay, we got $4 today. And that was 50 cents more than anybody else comes in the country. I mean, three and a half was to go in wages, but because we could find we got $4 today. And then a few years later, it went to four and a half. And that was really good money. Having to put the poles and lines in. Poles were all dug by hand made by hand raised by everything was done by hand, we had no power. And we used our own car to get from job to job. We got nothing for that. Not for years afterwards, they used to give us a small pittance. And then gradually as the bus system grew, it got to be instead of being two months, it was three months or four months. And then in the wintertime there's so much timber up then you work with an old walrus study for two months in wickedly strong damage. And then they had this big bow and in 33, the perfect southeastern and the tide rose all of the feet beyond the tide gauge that washed out that fell across to hit a boat with harbor from the bridge to the road. It disappeared. There was nothing there no road or anything. There were just little waves in the sand. And the only thing that saved DNS, which was standing there at that time, was a boomer outstay me and then Gulags Dow jumped over at the booth six for all fastened together and they drape themselves around the front of the house and found out all the logs around and that whole field behind it was solid timber. And the road had disappeared. And the why I guess it was two weeks before anybody crossed the bridge because it was no bridge, the bridge was gone. And we used to drive our cars down to the cars to bridge the leaves on their way to cross the creek and pick up somebody else's car on the other side. And he was coming this way he would leave his car and pick our car up on the side and come around to the war. And we have to leapfrog for orders for a while before we get the bridge in again. Well, the telephone lines went down. Every span on the island is down I guess. Well. My brother was up. He was staying at Jim's place of time.

Speaker 1 59:00
This other line was living in Ganges. And I was living here. So we just took out no artists from anybody. We picked up the hell for the first time he came along. We just went to work on the section we were at. And it took us about two weeks for we met in the middle. And we worked right through from Isabella font right out to the different wood to get long distance lines with important one. And we ran two pair of wires. Everything was done. We put up two pair, one for local and one for long distance. And as everybody came along, we just hooked them on. And we had all the phones from was about a point to Fernley on one line. And they just sorted themselves out when it rang and everybody answered and they found out who they were looking for. And I was I had to go away in February. That happened on the 21st of December. And we weren't to daylight till dark Saturday Sunday. No stop right up till the end of June. Are you worried before we had no assemblance of ally going in mind that was much do and I had to go away I had a contract up north. But Bob told me they worked. They were interviewed before they get the thing back in shape. While I was in 33, I was a Southeastern the year following. In 34, they had a southwestern, came in through Burgoyne. And it blew just barely above his bed and took everything down again, and it was the same thing you could walk from where the government building is now clean up the center settlement on the logs without ever setting foot on the ground. All that timber had never been cut, and to bring down just like weak across the road, you could walk right in Addison 34 and all that regard shut down and Bergling blew out by the roots. And those trees the top of these hill you see there's an old orchard on the left by crushing that rock. It's a lot of tree laying flat, those burned out at the same time. And there was three four barns and a couple of houses blew down we lost our big barn down here that time and that took another six months to fix up

Speaker 2 1:01:14
think the weather at this particular time was different than than now.

Speaker 1 1:01:19
And no not appreciably. We have loom snow but not more they were just too freaked winds that came in that was all and it blew my full 5070 miles an hour for a short of time but it was like that for a computer that went through here you know some years ago but one other thing went down mostly we didn't wait for orders and we just went out went to work picked up the first man there was no workmen's compensation or no union hiring or anything like that. The federal regulation who just without without question and grabbed the first man that came along for help I went to work and and when you get finished attorneys time is way different pace is now cautious. Sure regulated. You've got to have an appointment book you've got to be listed got to be done and for you to dare hire anybody

Speaker 2 1:02:07
going out to these places did you know I guess it was some interesting people in the

Unknown Speaker 1:02:15
hall yes it was lots of characters around the country

Speaker 1 1:02:23
but any place you came along they asked you in and fed you and if you were up we used to enjoy going out between Christmas New Year's we party every every Christmas we worked all day Christmas New Year so it was always Tom said every house you went you had a drink you come home with a grand old go on at night and had a good a good successful day's work got in and a wonderful visit for the

Speaker 1 1:02:54
course by virtue of the fact that we were spare lane when they help her shelter is the last resort when everything broke down. We had a sneak phone in here glein tapped in on the line and we could tap into anytime we wanted. But by this time they had an operator in Ganges and when they pulled the White House got it then took fire because the operator hopped on the party line and rang everybody in the country. And maybe we've got half past seven in the morning. And I just cut up I think I was home alone here. And I hopped into my little old Ford got a bucket the next was shuffled and struck out. And when I got down there I suppose had been burning for half an hour then. And it was well underway. But by that time I guess it was 2025 people there and it started the place of chance hands a couple of times and each new owner putting money in remodeled and and when they put the plumbing in all been exposed in the ceilings, and they put a false ceiling in to hide it. And somehow it must have started in this false ceiling and got a good hold before anybody it just happened that there was no one staying there with the proprietor. His wife had gone to town and he was alone. And he got up and had his breakfast. And we went out to feed the chickens and look back and here was the flame coming through the first TV because he flew the phone and everybody was here, but they closed the doors and it was in the kitchen you see and it was confined and the people got there so fast they got practically everything around the house. Except for was in that one room they even saved his breakfast table with the dirty egg and fork and knife and marmalade pot sitting on it. And they packed it out with the plates in the cup and saucer and everything on the Sun middle the road. And I've ever seen two great big strong men galloping up the road with a little side table that weighed about 25 pounds, one had each end. And they rushed out, I guess 100 yards up the road extreme excitement. Another guy was up on the upper storey, pitching up brewers over the top floor. And they had a piano in the back. And my brother and I forgotten who the other one was. They're not big men, neither one of them. Pick the p&l. If you click up and carry it out the side door and set it to them. We live along two of them. Well, it only lasted about an hour. I mean, the house was Tinder guy. And once he broke through that ceiling, that thing was gone. They saved the beer, the beer keg with the tap in it, and all the glasses and everything else. Except that one room I think was about the only thing they lost. And then they went around to sort of everything would just be taken up and set. They went around to tidy up and move things back. You can pre hop them and the wind around there and took eight of them to get to the piano to pick it up off along and get it back out of the way. But inside of an hour and a half there wasn't anything standing chimney was occurring flat on the ground. I was the first one and it was rebuilt and burnt again after that. This was some years after

Speaker 2 1:06:21
that the center of the Fulford life. I think some of the things they had on our credit festival.

Speaker 1 1:06:29
Oh, they are in the beer party days during the Justice modern history now. They had a beer license in there, that was only kept going and correct. You have to have so many bedrooms before you could have a beer license. And during the war the second. The second one I'm speaking 39 on. Logging was booming, there was about 25 Small logging camps on the island with four or five metalwork in each one. See the bulldozers come in and trucks are coming in then. And money was free. And boy they really coined money down there because all the loggers spend all the money. And then they used to put on all kinds of dudes clambakes and chowder nights and things like that to conjunction with the beer product. But when it burned down, it would had it was on suffered because if it existed, but to rebuild it, that would cost so much that it wouldn't pay. So with Durbin rebuilt, that was the last one. But the first one burned down, it must have been Oh, I don't know what you're thinking. But the third one somewhere on their roads after that was between about 37. The first one burned down, and the other one burned down after the war. You know, when I was about 1912 And I came to learn a 12 I think the first one is broken. I'm not too sure that the styling would blend in. But

Speaker 3 1:08:07
I like him to Saltspring to teach in 1933. And that was a time was very difficult for teachers to get a position and I was employed by Mr. Bill Crawford. He was the school board for the one particular school and there were seven or eight schools and each had their own trustee. So the school was quite independent. And I found a boarding place on the Ganges hill just above your place and would walk up the road and across the old divide road which was the original road coming down to Beaufort. And it would take me How far was too much to last I guess. I would walk that to school. The winter time we had school from half past nine until three. And in the summertime I'd have to be at school and we would start probably half by stage and we would continue on to fourth makeup at the time we lost in the in the winter. And the school was one room. Oil floor. moveable desks and the old pot bellied stove in the middle of the room. The teacher being a very important person. She had her desk on a little Dyess above 16 And many a time I've tripped over that thing. We had one block of Blackboard. That would be Oh, I guess two by three feet on one side and then Blackboard across the front. The teacher was allowed one brush per year, one box of chalk per year. You're given a bar of soap, some matches and In firewood, and if you didn't have enough firewood to go keep the fire going well you wouldn't youngster at all went out and have an hour of gathering wood to keep the fire going. The youngsters walk four miles from the top of the cranberry all the way down, they come down in the summertime bare feet come in and down to the school. We had a great old bell that I need to go out and ring and let them know when they come from all over down by the lake and then through the trees and around and the trees were right up tight to the school, there's no grounds at all for them to play off, it built on a shared bank, and you entered into the cloakroom. And there were there was a hook, and a cup for each tile, a wash basin, and a towel soap. And it was fun to do with you one child each morning to go and get a bucket of water would last us until lunchtime. And then in the school, I've gotten just how many I had at first probably 14 Students with the eighth grades in the one classroom at a time. We did have the paper and pencil pens. But we did find under the school and we got to the ground tidying the place up the old sleeps that had been used in that building previous to my arrival. And has we got school organized, we decided that we must have some sort of a playground. That's all there is to it. So I went to the trustee and asked him would he mind if we cleared out the brush? No, he didn't mind at all. So 14 of us said to and we made a list of school grounds there. And then it was Mr. West here. He gave us more cars. He gave us some rope. We made swings and generally tidy the place up we planted bowls and flowers. And children took a great pride in that building. Then we decided well, maybe we could play baseball. And they made the gravel road out in the front there. So we played baseball on this gravel road and then great Gallo occasionally invited school from the north end to come down and play. I won't bear with what a game we had. But it was just right I think but one of the first inter school games that was ever played on the island here. And wintertime, snow and they come to school, thought nothing of walk in these miles. And I'd have a pulse on the store could warm suit for them. Anything cuts bruises, I had to be the nurse for them. Eventually there was a doctor who came around and examine the children once a year and as was anything very wrong with them why they were looked after. The inspector arrived once a year and you could hear his old Ford coming clickety clackety clack and we always say well, here comes the inspector general purpose behavior. When he arrived him say all day long, nine o'clock in the morning until four and then it was my treat to be driven back again to use him for within one day of the year I didn't have to walk. Summertime it will get so hot in that building over there that day to take our lessons on what down towards the the lake underneath some of the trees that were there. We had parties. And it was a great thing to have the school concert so the teachers on the island arrange will all have mine tonight. You have yours tomorrow. And so that was entertainment for a whole week, every night. And we just take the desks and put them all outside or around the edge of the local band. Anyone that could play played an instrument helped. The policeman came as Santa Claus we had a big tree and a small gift for each child concert was given they danced and we boil the coffee outside and prepared a little boost of metal about the weather was everything's fine and little ones was put to sleep in desk on desk normal chairs around and everyone had pretty good and glorious time. And then it was always sort of the thing that you were invited to the homes of our parents. If you look forward to these visits and I climbed up under the crown briefly. John Bennett's home, thoroughly enjoyed that. visited the Damascus saw his inventions then invited to the Crawford It's and that was a way down there going on towards the better southern division down there. No road at all. So I had to strike off over the mountain through the slough and off down I got took me some time to get there. But I eventually got through all that and downward you think now there's a road than where the horrible slip now there was no road along there it was just a trail along there and I went to trail along there and into Barkos place. So it was really, really living right in the in the woods. I can't do it as well.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:39
Fun and the children are any different.

Speaker 3 1:15:42
Oh yes, they wanted to learn. That's the one thing I think they came in, they were so anxious to help and they helped each other. And I can remember the time that one of the little Connery girls fell and broke her arm. And all the children being upset and two of them coming along and one holding her wrist one holding here, one holding there. So the arm was all right. And I think I forget her, I took my blouse, I believe and wrap this up and they carried the two miles into gangee so that that could be set. If someone was hungry, they just shared lunches. There was no one took anything from anyone else. They helped each other in school if they if I were busy teaching grade eight and grade four could hear the grade one reading why they thought nothing about the toilet was just a common thing to help. Everybody worked. And they swept the floors, they clean the windows, they got the bar when they lit the bar. They did the ashes to attended the garden. Spent though. Well, there were so delightful that I would spend Saturdays and Sundays with them. And sometimes with I'd have a party and again Geez and they would come down and I remember some of them have never had spaghetti or macaroni or foods like that. And I would try to do something that was different for them. Then we in the winter months, we climbed Mount max for whole class, snow and all. And no John Bennett can tell you about the time you found the little forms. And Natalie notices horror I can tell you the time she climbed the barbed wire fence and ripped her leg open up there. Another one tell you how they carried one of us just muskies cakes up to the top of the mountain with all which sticky icing on the top. We used to have perfectly wonderful guys, we traveled a mountain up and down and around and partied and had a glorious time. Just do the same as it is now just the same. There's no difference at all except just in the hours and then sometimes those day night hours were cut down completely because we have no light at all. Didn't even have a gas lamp. So that by one o'clock and two o'clock in the trees there, it was very dark in school. So then you had your singing lessons or your education. But you've never left the school three o'clock to sport no matter how dark it was only some activity going. What are the students after grade eight, some of them have gone on and done wonderful things. One one now is studying to be a captain on the local Berry. Others have moved to California, we have one that was for a while it was a matron of hospital in Montreal. We have the construction man. We have building contractors and people that are really well up in the world, doing very, very well but no one went to university in those days. Solid consolidated school that happened in start in 1940 when they started the school and leaving guarantees in the 1941. But not all of these little districts joined at that time there were one or two that remained independent from the consolidated school. And then when the war star hit was married women were allowed to go back teaching again. And the Burgoyne school classroom the little church down here was still independent beaver point was independent. And the Isabella point school was independent. So they didn't join until on in the late 40s 50s. You're

Unknown Speaker 1:20:01
building schools? Oh, yes,

Speaker 3 1:20:03
absolutely. Because that was a great excitement here and all the men and women and children gave their pre labor time, donations to head parties and so on to those food. And then when the men were working there, we would supply the tea the coffee, and keep on going with step one, did the plumbing on the on the finishing for Mr. Graham, I taught this to the boys he was the overseer for to see that everything was done he was so interested in. And one of his boys now is a teacher woman, a very famous doctor. A little Virgo in school, we have a famous artist to schools.

Speaker 3 1:21:03
I was at the divided school until 1936. And then they required a second teacher in the high school in the Ganges center, and I was offered that position. And that was just a wonderful job to have. Because I worked with Mr. forester. And the salary made me a millionaire. Those days, I got $85 a month for the first round if we gradually increase Matt up. But the building that we worked in was shiplap inside two rooms. And Mr. Food was to reteach in the morning and one end of the building. And I would have the other end for the morning. And then we would interchange in the afternoon. And the interchange was necessary because I taught the chemistry and the physics. And in the back of the room, there was a big chest. And you opened up the top of this thing and your chemists go and physical equipment preceding that you lifted that out and put down the lid and then you worked in this big box around this big box. School was delightful. The building when it was torn down, revealed a great many secrets of the place because the knot holes in it had been filled with all the orange peel and all the odd notes and notes and things that have been dropped down into there. And some of them I kept for a long, long time because they were such revealing little pieces of information that want to pop in there that are quite delightful. The students there are all of the real divers and anxious to learn if they thought the subject still is today, if they thought it's going to be useful. And then the games were played out on the agricultural field. We have a grass hockey team. And Mrs. Byron came down and assisted with the assistant coach with the girls grass hockey team. And she and I used to run up and down that field with these girls and have a perfectly glorious time and we took them over to play over me. Victoria Sanitarium and we did quite well for Saltspring with our progress hockey team. The boys all belong to the local militia, isn't it? Yes. And the day that war was declared, I remember that. Half the boys just disappeared. They've gone off to off to war. I can remember parents phoning saying Santo won't be at school tomorrow morning. He's gone. And we were very, very proud of that. Those boys seems horrible to be without them after we'd watch from the window seeming and training out on on the field. Harry Nichols was their leader. I still have pictures of them all in their uniforms outside the schools they going off those days. And I stayed there until 1939. And during that time, we had the first graduation party, which was a great success. We had our banquet in one of the classrooms number two, and then we had a dance and the other one was a very, very nice part He just for those who are leaving us and those boys were in and the girls that were in that class some of them are really famous today