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Denise & John Crofton

Charles Kahn interviewing Denise Crofton and her nephew John Crofton.

Date: prior to 1998 (Salt Spring: Story of an Island published 1998).

Accession Number Interviewer Charles Kahn
Date February 18, 1997 Location
Media 2 cassette tapes Audio CD mp3 √
ID 142 Duration





Transcription by Usha Rautenbach

Regulars in the early 1930’s

Charles Kahn:What was Mr. Ross’ first name? 

Denise Crofton:Reg, and William

Charles Kahn:Oh, there were two? Yes 

Denise Crofton:Willy, William Ross was the one who stayed at the lake one time ( s great long time?) his brother used to come and stay for a week or two.

Charles Kahn:Willy Ross was the one who worked in Hong Kong?

Denise Crofton:Yes. The other one lived in Japan most of his life I think. They were just completely different.

Charles Kahn:But Reg Ross didn’t live there, he just came occasionally? What years would that be?

Denise Crofton:Just before the war, in the early thirties, when he first came, I guess.

Charles Kahn:And was Stan Christie (sp?) at the same time?

Denise Crofton:He came a little later; they did overleap, I should imagine about five years they were staying there at the same time.

John Crofton (John Crofton):Don’t forget about Eric Springford, he was another irregular.

* Eric Springford in 1961 (carpenter:built John’s house)

(1911 census Eric Springford is a bachelor boarding with the AJ Smith and Halley household, born Mar 1893, aged 18, so by 1916 he is 23)

(Cecil Springford is a bachelor Boarder with Edward Walter and his wife, born Aug 1890, aged 20)

(Ernest Henry Stanford, is a bachelor Head of Household, born Dec 1883, aged 27, with bachelor brother William Charh??? Stanford, born Jun 1889, aged 19) 

No Percy Lowther, Ross brothers (neither Willy or Reg) or Stan Christie

Denise Crofton:Mr. Ross was quite a golfer- he used to wear plus-fours, and (Noni?) my little niece, she looked at him one day and she said, “Mr. Ross, why don’t you pull your pants down?” But he had a good sense of humour. He either liked you or he didn’t.

Charles Kahn:Were there still tents there at that time? were there tents the whole time?

John Crofton:During the thirties.

Denise Crofton:Only in the summer. Mr. Ross wasn’t there, and certainly Stan Christie (sp?), never had a tent. 

Charles Kahn:So they were inside the house. 

Denise Crofton:Yes.

Charles Kahn:But there were still tents in the summer for the other guests.

John Crofton:Until after the war, when they built the cabins.

Charles Kahn:Did any of the cabins survive?

Denise Crofton:The cabins were put up during the war. 

John Crofton:When did they start building the cabins?

Denise Crofton:Well, the first one was Dr Sutherland, she said she’d come and stay. She used to be the doctor on the island, but she’d like a cabin, so we put that cabin up, and then it led to putting up different other cabins. 

Charles Kahn:So when would that have been?

Denise Crofton:In about ‘42 I think. John, you should remember that.

John Crofton:Well, you see, I was away, in the war.

Denise Crofton:Oh.

John Crofton:I just remember them being built after the war. 

Denise Crofton:(Sorting out some Charles Kahn confusion, establishing that Dr Sutherland came to the Island 1918-1930.) Then when she retired she went to Victoria, and she wanted to come up and stay one summer with us. (That was in about 1942.)

Denise Crofton:Were you here when Dad died?

John Crofton:Yes, I was here for that summer. We were living in ?those days? at the time, I remember him dying, when I was going to ?high? and coming over for the funeral.

Charles Kahn:So, these people who stayed there for a long period of time, did they get a special deal, for the whole thing?

Denise Crofton:Oh yes. Mr. Ross paid $60 a month, because he had one of the big best rooms in the house, that was room 12; and that included meals. And Sam paid $40 a month; when you think of it though, just over a dollar a day, for all that food and (everything). The schoolteachers we had, that’s another (kind of) guest, they paid about $30, they only got paid about $50 a month, so. . .

Charles Kahn:So who was Eric Springford? Did he come the same time?

John Crofton:When did he start?

Denise Crofton:Well he (Eric Springford) came off and on. He must have come in the twenties first of all, to stay, and then he went up to the Interior, he was a carpenter, and then came baCharles Kahn to the Island, so he stayed off and on. 

John Crofton:He was a war veteran, though, from the first war.

Charles Kahn:I guess a lot of your guests must have been repeaters, every year they came baCharles Kahn?.

Denise Crofton:Yes, the summer ones especially.

Charles Kahn:Was  it very quiet in the winter?

Denise Crofton:Yes, I think it was, really. But, you know, we had school teachers, people like that that stayed (through the winter). There was no other place to stay. 

ME:Replaced Stevens Boarding House? Granny Mouat’s?

Charles Kahn:You probably had better business then, than the people who run resorts have now.

Denise Crofton:Probably, because there wasn’t any other place to stay.

Charles Kahn:Because now, I think there’s nothing doing in the winter time.


Conventions (pre 1998)

Denise Crofton:I’m surprised at them putting on all these bedrooms, because at night I don’t see lights in the baCharles Kahn part of the house.

Charles Kahn:They might be anticipating some convention business at some point. 

John Crofton:It could be.

Charles Kahn:Weren’t they talking about building a convention centre? It’s a logical place, I mean you would think that people would want to come for a retreat here, you know, business people to Salt Spring Island.

Denise Crofton:But then, they haven’t got anything in the way of entertainment, I mean at Harrison at least they’ve got the indoor swimming pool, and dancing and all that. You’ve got to have, I would think, something to -

Charles Kahn:Of course some of these companies, they want people to work, so they’re not too keen on entertainment. 

Denise Crofton:Yes, well that’s true.

Charles Kahn:I remember when I used to work for a publishing companies, they often had their sales conferences at places like this. It was very pleasant, but boy, did they ever work you hard, because there was nothing else to do. There might be some tennis courts out there, but I never got a chance to use them! Because I was so bust working; they’d have sessions in the evening, and you’d start right in the morning, and then sessions in the evening, so the whole day was gone. ...


So this Stan Christie, he seems to be the most interesting of the lot, eh?.

Denise Crofton:Well, he was really. Can you describe Stan Christie? He was very short, and had these great big eyes. He was very clever at fixing things, and in the winter when he couldn’t play golf he used to go round and fix chairs, and cloCharles Kahns and everything else. 

John Crofton:He was also great for entertaining the guests, you know, and all that sort of thing. 

Denise Crofton:In the summer he did, he took them all driving and fishing. and then he bought some property, he got it for tax money, for about  $200, and he made a little park out of it, and Mr. Ross, the same Mr. Ross, named it Stanley Park, and he made benches and he had all sorts of, (the park was) on Beddis Road, (inaudible) just past the Purdy’s (Mary Inglin’s place).

Billy Eng

Charles Kahn:What about Billy Eng?

Denise Crofton:I have a picture of him.

John:I have a proper photo, a colour photo, full size. That’s been cut down. He was certainly a dominant figure in the hotel.

(Some discussion of the newspaper photograph, and the article. John wrote the original, but Tony Richards rewrote it.)

Denise Crofton:When he came over for the reunion, about ten years ago, he was the most popular person there, everybody wanted to see Billy, you know, he was quite a character.


Dr Rush was another one, when he came to one of the reunions; he was the doctor on the Island for quite a few years, Bobby Rush’s father. There again, they all lined up to see him. I didn’t get to see him, I wasn’t going to stand in a line.

I remember the first time he came to see mother, she (Nona Crofton) used to suffer from terrible headaches.

“Dad brought him into the room to see Mother and Dr Rush gave one look at Mother and said “You sure look siCharles Kahn to me, Mrs. Crofton,” and we  quote that still, because for a doctor to say “You sure look siCharles Kahn to me”, it really was, (John “Bobby Rush’s father  hadn’t been polished”) he wasn’t what, I don’t know, what did he do?:oh it doesn’t matter, I’d better be careful.

Charles Kahn says the tape has probably stopped by now ( so don’t quote the above?).

Denise Crofton:Everyone liked him, you know. I must say he was awfully good to my father, when he was ill, because Dad was having these heart attaCharles Kahns in the middle of the night, and Dr Rush would come down at 4 o’cloCharles Kahn in the morning, and it was  just comforting to both Mother and myself, because she didn’t know what to do; and he only charged $4 a visit in the middle of the night, you know. He was a great CCF-er and Dad was a Conservative, and they used to argue politics.; but on the other hand he told Dad he wasn’t to argue politics, because it could send his blood pressure up! 


Charles Kahn:He must have gotten along with Goody then. 

D:I guess so.

Charles Kahn:Because listening to Goody, he sounds as if he’s a CCF-er.

John:Oh, very much so, yes.

Charles Kahn:I was talking to Malcolm Bond, and I think Malcolm Bond must be a very arch Conservative, because he didn’t seem to think too much of socialists, CCF-ers.

D:Of what?

Charles Kahn:Of socialists? CCF-ers.

D:Oh, I’m sorry. No, I don’t think too much of, they always seem to have a chip on my shoulder, I don’t (know).

John:Was Mr. BulloCharles Kahn a frank Conservative?

Charles Kahn:Oh yes.

D:And Jesse Bond, I guess you know, was one of Mr. BulloCharles Kahn's, one of the first. ...

(Charles Kahn chatter about Malcolm Bond, who is going off to China, something to do with his veterinary practice. He’s been invited to go baCharles Kahn.)


Jesse Bond Vegetable Gardening

Denise Crofton:Jesse Bond did a lot of work for Mr. BulloCharles Kahn, as you probably know, and Mr. BulloCharles Kahn gave him land of his own; then he used to, he worked at Harbour House, just by the day, with the vegetable garden and that, and after that he used to sell vegetables, and come round with his truCharles Kahn. We used to have a wonderful garden ourselves, but by about the end of August we’d more or less run out, and Jesse would come round with all his vegetables.

Charles Kahn:Did Billy Eng ever cook any Chinese food?

Denise Crofton:No, just for the Chinese party we’d have at the end of the season, a staff party, in the Snake House, that’s where we held it.


Charles Kahn:People didn’t really like to eat things like Chinese food then I guess.

Denise Crofton:Well they didn’t have any Chinese. There were only two Chinese on the island. 

CL:No, but I mean to say, they didn’t like to eat that style of cooking.

D:It was really mostly only English people, weren’t there. Grandpa and men who -

Charles Kahn:Today people like to eat a much bigger variety of foods.

John Crofton:Because we have become a multicultural  - break in the tape 0 John telling about a book he’s reading - things started changing and she could see how wrong it all was, and she gives terrible examples of things the Red Guard would do, and it was a nightmare time, really. This is a delightful book to read, but she gives details about the food that she was eating, some of which I wouldn’t want to mention!

Charles Kahn:Well it’s interesting, because when you go to restaurants there, the food would be sitting outside in cages, because they really like their food fresh, so you’d have little hedgehogs, they’d have rabbits, and chiCharles Kahnens (Charles Kahn giving details John might not want to mention, and Denise tells of Queen Elizabeth seeing barbecued rat on a plate. John and Charles Kahn also chat about visiting Thailand, and barbecued rat and cobra available up in the mountains of Thailand, and a Chinese girl from Hong Kong who vehemently said the Chinese people are really horrible, they’ll eat anything). 

Charles Kahn:Well it’s true, they will eat anything. 


Charles Kahn:So was (Billy Eng) fairly accepted by people? 

Denise Crofton:Oh yes, he was very very popular. He loved to play a poker game. There was only one other Chinese on the island. I don’t know why he stayed all those years (on the island) but I guess we were his family, because, you know, his wife and one child were in China.

Charles Kahn:Did he ever bring them over?

Denise Crofton:The wife died, and he brought the first boy out, Peter. He went to High School down here.

John Crofton:But I think it was in the latter part of the forties that new legislation came out in Canada, allowing the Chinese to bring their wives and family from China.

Denise Crofton:Billy wasn’t a Canadian citizen, and it was Dares and Macintosh that, you know,  had to get it for him, so he could get ?Marjorie?Ming Shree? out, and had quite a time I think.

Charles Kahn:He got the second wife baCharles Kahn, then.

Denise Crofton:But he had a wonderful sense of humour, he’d have to have.

Charles Kahn:So he must have worked there a long time, eh?

Denise Crofton:I think he came in about 1925. 

Charles Kahn:It says here he came to Canada in 1920, and began working as a cook.

Denise Crofton:That’s right. He worked in Vancouver for a few years, and then came to the island.

Charles Kahn:How did you find him?

Denise Crofton:My brother-in-law Graham Shove was over in Vancouver, and he was going to interview: they had a Chinese agency: and he interviewed quite lot of them, and Billy just said “I can do the job, don’t worry,” or whatever, didn’t sort of say he was a wonderful cook, just “I can handle it”, so Graham pied him out!

Charles Kahn:Was he planning to hire a Chinese cook, or was it, just happened out to be that way? I mean were you looking for a Chinese cook?

Denise Crofton:Oh yes, he was in Vancouver and he interviewed them for us. I think he was the first Chinese cook we ever had? We might have had one before that.

Charles Kahn:OH! Well. How many people would he have cooked for, at the height?

Denise Crofton:Usually we had about 45-50. During the tennis tournaments was really when we had  our big crowd, I think.

John Crofton:During the war, when ?Eric Eppler‘s? people from Pat Bay would come over , sometimes we’d have, what?  up to about 80 people staying?

Denise Crofton:Oh I think so, yes.

John Crofton:And the Christmas dinners: how many people would come for the Christmas dinners?

Denise Crofton:65-70?

John Crofton:And Billy would cook for 65-70 people, a Christmas dinner.

Denise Crofton:And then we always had the veterans down for a dinner too. Before the war, the old veterans, and then we kept it up during the war. They used to come from the other islands, the veterans.

John Crofton:But he’d prepare these huge meals.

Charles Kahn:Oh. it’s yours? (to John) I should take some notes off it, then. 

Denise Crofton:Is that the (clipping) about Billy?

DC’s funny story “One thing, I think it’s funny anyway”: 

I told you there were only the two Chinese on the island. The other one used to sell vegetables, but he also did our vegetable garden for us in the early part of the war. Anyway, he said to me, would I order some foot lice. So I didn’t know what he meant, foot lice. Then he’d come the next time and say did you get me the foot lice, the stuff you put on baby cabbages, meaning, what’s that greenery, brussels sprouts. Anyway, I was getting really worried about this foot lice. So, my young sister was going down to Mouats to do the shopping, and I put on the list, foot lice. So she went to the counter (Accounts?) upstairs, and asked for it. They said no, they didn’t know what it was, and they sent her down to the feed shop. And, anyway, they’d never heard of it down there. Anyway, finally Billy translated it -  it was fertilizer!

But Dulce, my sister, she was just furious with me! Oh we did laugh about that. Foot lice and fertilizer.


Aside: not relevant to research (except to point out that there have been articles in the Driftwood about Billy Eng and Harbour House tennis)

Charles Kahn:Shall I just put this here?

Denise Crofton:Did you want it? You can have it, if you bring it baCharles Kahn again.

Charles Kahn:I took notes from it, so I think it’s OK. I wish I’d saved some of these things when they came out. 

John Crofton:Well, you can always -

Charles Kahn:I can always go baCharles Kahn, yah, I’ll be doing a lot of looking at old Driftwoods, especially when I get to the more modern period.

Denise Crofton:What was that young chap that we liked, John? Thompson. He wrote about the tennis courts.

Charles Kahn:Oh, Graham.

Denise Crofton:Graham, yes, I liked him very much.

Charles Kahn:Yes, Graham’s really likeable, he’s a very likeable guy.

Denise Crofton:He was, he was very easy.



Charles Kahn:Who was Mr. Hague?

Denise Crofton:He played in the orchestra, I think he played the saxophone. His wife played the piano. They owned one of the islands out there, that we call Castle Island. They had their own boat, and I went to school with their kids, they used to bring them over to school, but then also they used to come and play our summer dances. 

Charles Kahn:Now, his wife played the piano?

Denise Crofton:Yes.

Charles Kahn:Do you remember what her name was?

Denise Crofton:Hm. His was Bill, I know.

Charles Kahn:And then there was a Mrs. Eaton? Did she also play?

Denise Crofton:They owned the Fulford Inn at one time, it was called the White House.

Charles Kahn:The White House, yeah, right. He was known as Pop Eaton.

Denise Crofton:Yes. Then afterwards he became the postmaster up here. They moved up here, they sold the inn, and moved up here, and he was the postmaster for years.

Charles Kahn:She had a boarding house or something, didn’t she?

Denise Crofton:Yes, they called it the White House.

Charles Kahn:But she used to come to Harbour House to entertain?

Denise Crofton:To play Saturdays nights. We had dances every Saturday night.

Charles Kahn:And was that at the same time she was also running the White House? 

Denise Crofton:Yes. 

Charles Kahn:So she’d leave her place, and came to work at your place.

Denise Crofton:I don’t think she did it for too long, because when they moved to Ganges they ran a tea room.

Charles Kahn:So did she also play an instrument, did she also play in the band?

Denise Crofton:Mrs. Eaton played the piano.

Charles Kahn:Oh, she played piano.

Denise Crofton:And her husband played the saxophone.

Charles Kahn:Oh, I thought you said Bill Hague played the saxophone.

Denise Crofton:These are a separate times. 

Denise Crofton:I think the Eatons were first, and then the Hagues.

Charles Kahn:And you think her husband played the saxophone too?

Denise Crofton:I know he did.

John Crofton:Oh really?

Charles Kahn:So when would that have been? In the thirties?

Denise Crofton:Yes.

Charles Kahn:What kind of music did they play?

Denise Crofton:Jazz!

John Crofton:The popular music of the time.

Charles Kahn:Swing?

John Crofton:Swing, yes.

Charles Kahn:It must have been fun. Did people dance?

John Crofton:Sure.

Denise Crofton:On Saturday nights you’d get the Vancouver Yacht Club in, and different boats from other yacht clubs. They all knew there was a dance here on Saturday nights, so it was really quite something. But we had to close at 12.00, so then they’d go over and party in what we called the Snake House. 

Charles Kahn:Why did you have to close at 12.00?

John Crofton:It was the rule. Regulations.

Denise Crofton:Sometimes if it was a private dance we could dance later, but... 

Charles Kahn:Was it the same every night?  There wasn’t any change, like Saturday nights would be the same as Monday nights? You still had to close at 12.00?

John Crofton:(inaudible) as far as the dancing (inaudible) 

Charles Kahn:I think you said on the tape that you didn’t charge very much. 50 cents or something?

Denise Crofton:25 cents.

Charles Kahn:You keep saying on the tape that it hardly covered the cost of the band.

Denise Crofton:I know it didn’t. And all of them didn’t pay either. They’d come in from the beer parlour, and...

John Crofton:I guess they had to close at 12.00 on Saturday nights because of Sunday.

Denise Crofton:Yes. 

Charles Kahn:Oh, right.

Denise Crofton:Well, all dances had to stop at 12.00 I think, unless you had a special license.

Charles Kahn:So if had a dance, if you were able to have a dance on a Wednesday night, say, it would have been different, you wouldn’t have had to -

John Crofton:Oh, I don’t know.

Charles Kahn:Yeah. 

Denise Crofton:Well I think the big attraction was all the: we’d see a lot of girls that came to stay for the summer, and all the boys would come by boat.

Charles Kahn:How many people would come to one of these dances?

Denise Crofton:Oh, it’s hard to say, about 100, would you (say)? I don’t know, 80. They weren’t all in the dance room at the same time.

Charles Kahn:Were there any pictures? Do you have any pictures of this time? 

John Crofton:No.

Charles Kahn:No? Some people must have taken pictures. I guess Jesse Bond used to take a lot of pictures, didn’t he? Photographs? 

Denise Crofton:All I know is the one he took of the hotel baCharles Kahn here that burned down. I don’t know anything.

Charles Kahn:But did people take pictures of your dancing?

Denise Crofton:No.

Charles Kahn:So you don’t have many pictures from that period of time, I guess. 

Denise Crofton:Well, d’you mean -

Charles Kahn:Photographs?

Denise Crofton:Well, there’s lots of photographs in the album, of the tennis parties. But we didn’t take any indoor pictures.


Charles Kahn:Did you feel that there was any competition for the Harbour House? For example was the Fulford Inn any competition?

Denise Crofton:No, not with Fulford Inn. I think the biggest was when they had the Log Cabin. It’s changed its name so many times. Mr. BulloCharles Kahn had it built for one of his boys .

Charles Kahn:Would that be the Tides Inn?

Denise Crofton:Yes.

Charles Kahn:Yeah. So that was competition.

Denise Crofton:Yes, for meals only, really.

John Crofton:That and Vesuvius Inn.

Denise Crofton:Oh, yes, that’s right too. Then during the war we didn’t, you know, everybody was, the war (?: pulled up?) really. 

Charles Kahn:Which war, the second, you mean?

Denise Crofton:The second World War, yes. 

Charles Kahn:So it was busy during the war?

Denise Crofton:Very busy. People couldn’t get gas. The Mary would come in from Vancouver, and people would get off at the end, and because they had no reservations, it was awful! John, you could tell that, you used to drive them round the island (trying to fond places for the overflow to stay?) We had no bed and breakfast then, but some of them sort of did it half heartedly. (laughs)

Social Centre

Scavenger Hunts

Charles Kahn:The scavenger hunts were a big thing, I guess.

Denise Crofton:Yes. 

Charles Kahn:Was that just connected with the tennis tournaments?

Denise Crofton:No, no, that was separate from the tennis. We did have it join the tennis, but,...

John Crofton:inaudible

Charles Kahn:But you also had them as entertainment at other times as well. Did everybody get involved in them?

Denise Crofton:Oh yes.

Charles Kahn:They were very popular.

Denise Crofton:Well they were, yes. Well, it mixed people up.

Charles Kahn:When did you first start having them, do you remember?

Denise Crofton:I think it was during the war, I don’t think we had them before. 

John Crofton:What?

Denise Crofton:The scavenger hunts. Oh, well yes, we had them before. 

John Crofton:We had them in the thirties. 

Denise Crofton:Yes, that’s right, I’m crazy.

John Crofton:I know it might have been happening during the war, but...

Denise Crofton:No, we did have them before. 

Crab Races

Denise Crofton:The crab race on the billiard table was the, you know, that was really quite amusing.

Charles Kahn:What did that involve?

Denise Crofton:Well, each team had a crab, and then they shooed them on, you weren’t allowed to touch them. Those crabs did go from one end to the other, didn’t they, with a little encouragement.

John Crofton:Everybody got excited about those, it was as real as horse racing.

Charles Kahn:Did they bet on them?

John Crofton:Oh sure.

Liquor License

Charles Kahn:Did you have to have a liquor license in those days, to serve liquor? 

John Crofton:No, just in the beer parlour.

Charles Kahn:Just in the beer parlour. Did the hotel serve -


Denise Crofton:Dances, when I come to think of it, in the early days it used to be fancy dress dances. That was just for the hotel itself.

Charles Kahn:Are you talking about the ones that the Eatons played at?

Denise Crofton:No, no. This was just, technically we didn’t have, I don’t know who played the piano, I think someone like Percy Lowther, or some other ?Boldair? or one of the guests.  But it was really just the house guests, and it was fancy dress. That was half the fun, you know, to (come up with the fancy dress). I was only about ten years old myself, so that would be quite a long time ago.

John Crofton:And you’d dance with the big wind-up gramophone too?

Denise Crofton:Yeah.

John Crofton:They had a bit of a social fun-room, they had a big wind-up gramophone with all sorts of records.

Charles Kahn:So would that have been in the twenties?

Denise Crofton:Yes, because I was only about, you know, 7, or 10 years old, or 8, I don’t know, 8 or 10. 

John Crofton:It was the thirties. (If Denise was 8-10, it would have been the twenties.)

Charles Kahn:And that was  just the guests.

Denise Crofton:You know, they’d come up with amazing costumes. In those days, you know,  the guests used to sort of arrange for tournaments, and fancy dress, and that sort of thing, and of course in the latter years, as we grew older, we had to help do the entertaining, you know. People were getting more sophisticated.

Social Centre

Charles Kahn:I guess in terms of entertainment on the island, Harbour House really provided quite a lot.

Denise Crofton:Oh yes. 

John Crofton:It was the social centre really.

Denise Crofton:Then the Legion used to have their meetings there, the IODE, everything was just Harbour House, really, all the fun and everything, and tennis tournaments. 

John Crofton:inaudible

Denise Crofton:And Harbour House gave everything free, we never charged for anything in the way of meetings and ...

Class of Clientele

Charles Kahn:Did you get quite a cross-section of people? Did you get farmers, and people working at Mouats,  or was it more of an upper class clientele?

Denise Crofton:What would you say John? I’d say a little bit of the upper class.

John Crofton:Well, once again, it depended on what was going on, like for the Legion dinners, it was anybody who was a veteran, and garden fêtes and that...

Denise Crofton:I guess it was more the private dances I’m thinking of, that was a little bit more, you know (upper class), but... For instance I’ve got my 21st birthday party (available?), Mouats, and you know, you had everybody, you know, Mouats.

Charles Kahn:I’ve listened to the tapes  talking about the entertainment in the early times, and they often talk about the schools, you know, and dances at the schools. These are working class people, and they don’t, nobody, none of them mention going to dances at the Harbour House, so I wondered if - 

ME: Did the social use of schools continue past the turn of the century? once the community halls were built?

John Crofton:You’ll understand when you read Charlie Horel’s little description of the dances that were held for the Canadian Scottish Platoon. (traffic noise That was still later?)At least, that was in the old Mahon Hall, and everybody fit, that sort of thing. But at Harbour House as Den was saying, for private access, it was for the guests. But when the dance was open for anybody, all those people would come in out of the beer parlour.

Denise Crofton:Yes, and we charged, then. As I said, for the fancy dress we didn’t charge, that was just the hotel.

John Crofton:But when people came in out of the beer parlour for the dances, that would be anybody. It wouldn’t be restricted.

The Beer Parlour

Charles Kahn:When did the beer parlour open?

Denise Crofton:That was in the late twenties I guess.

John Crofton:I understood it was something about when Dermott became 21.

Denise Crofton:I have forgotten about the beer parlour, I honestly have. Theo, they came in 1921, and we didn’t have a beer parlour then, 1921. So they built it just after that I guess.

Charles Kahn:Dermott was born in 1904, so that would be 1925 then.

John Crofton:My grandfather wanted Dermott to run the beer parlour, so they couldn’t open it up until Dermott became 21.

Charles Kahn:Funny, when I was a kid, 21 was the year of majority. But now it’s different all over the place, and it’s usually 18 or 19.

John Crofton:It’s 18 here.

Denise Crofton:That’s where all the fun was, on the Saturday nights, was in the beer parlour, and then go on to the dances.

Charles Kahn:I hope it was a nicer beer parlour than the one they have here now.

John Crofton:Well it was more fun! It was very informal.

Charles Kahn:It wasn’t as rough, I guess, as this place.

John Crofton:No, no, we didn’t have that sort of rowdy element. Although we certainly did, there’d be fights, sometimes, you know, between the lodgers and the ?flats?.

Charles Kahn:Did the beer parlour attract a cross-section of people?

Denise Crofton:Oh yes, because then, you knew everybody, so it was quite fun.

Charles Kahn:So you used to spend time in the beer parlour too?

John Crofton:All the time!

Denise Crofton and John Crofton:chuckle

John Crofton:Because that’s, you know, that’s where the action was.

Charles Kahn:Was there any entertainment in the beer parlour?

Denise Crofton:No. 

Charles Kahn:No, eh?

Denise Crofton:You couldn’t even serve food, the silliest law. They didn’t used to close at suppertime. And they opened in the morning, I think it was  11 o’cloCharles Kahn, and went on until 11 at night, with no closing for supper And then they brought in ‘closed for an hour’, I think, for six days, or two hours I guess. That was when Ted ran it, I think, after the war.

Charles Kahn:What did it look like inside the beer parlour? Was there a big bar?

John Crofton:Well, you have some photos don’t you Den? Of the beer parlour inside. I seem to remember one picture of you and Edna and all the girls.

Denise Crofton:Maybe, but I don’t know where it is, you know.


Charles Kahn:I should look at some of these prints before (I go). Were you going to loan me these?

Denise Crofton:I beg your pardon?

Charles Kahn:Were you gong to lend me these things?

Denise Crofton:Well, I just put them out for you to look at them. That’s sort of a scrap book I started, but, you know, it’s quite interesting, some of them. But things have got lost. You can take what you want, but... That’s my sister Doreen, Doreen Morris.

Charles Kahn:She’s very pretty.

Denise Crofton:Mm. It’s too bad. you know, that things get lost, but they do.

Charles Kahn:Who’s that?

Denise Crofton:That’s someone who stayed at Harbour House. She and her mother stayed at Harbour House for two or three years, and then she met her fiancée on the island, and got, (had) her wedding. All the wedding receptions used to be in Harbour House, or most of them.

Charles Kahn:Are these also people who stayed?

Denise Crofton:That’s Betty Harry. The one in the middle is my sister, the younger sister, and the one on the right is a cousin. (Denise goes off to get another photograph, and returns)

Denise Crofton:This is one of the whole family, except Dad, who’s taking (the photograph?) It was taken after the war. Because my brother, John’s father was wounded, I think he’s got his hand in a sling.

Charles Kahn:Oh, I think you’re right, yeah, he does. Which one are you in the picture?

Denise Crofton:That one. 

Charles Kahn:Oh yeah?





Unknown Speaker 0:00
Most of

Unknown Speaker 0:13

Unknown Speaker 0:19
time Willie Ross was the one who lives in Hong Kong in

Unknown Speaker 0:33
a completely different

Unknown Speaker 0:36
restaurant. He didn't he just came down in the basement and but what what's the year

Unknown Speaker 0:55
thanks at the same time but they will overlap

Unknown Speaker 1:17
the restaurants are excited. He used to work one day and he had a good test

Unknown Speaker 1:41
this was different B with their with their silicates there at that time

Unknown Speaker 1:55
today we're inside the house but they were still camping this summer for

Unknown Speaker 2:06
me the cabin survivors

Unknown Speaker 2:09
were put up during the war

Unknown Speaker 2:13
a lot of cabins on the island all these other other cruise facilities

Unknown Speaker 2:22
are on the first route was Dr. Sutherland she said she covered the stage she used to be the doctor of it but she liked Kabam somebody put them up covering up amount of rent you know putting up another cabin in about 42 I think

Unknown Speaker 2:50
I have a reference here to Dr. Sutherland. 1918 She came here she stayed until 1930 Who is this? Dr. Sutherland Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 3:10
I remember when she retired she went to Victoria. She wanted to come up and say one summer listen also it

Unknown Speaker 3:17
was after the after she lived here and

Unknown Speaker 3:22
now she went to Victoria

Unknown Speaker 3:28
so you think that was in 19 4209?

Unknown Speaker 3:42
Yes we are living at the time

Unknown Speaker 3:59
so these people who stayed there for a long period of time, did they get a special special deal for the whole

Unknown Speaker 4:08
I think never get Mr. Ross paid $60 A month because he had all the bedroom in my house

Unknown Speaker 4:20
that included meals

Unknown Speaker 4:24
paid $40 a month. My new thing was over just over $1 A day

Unknown Speaker 4:36
was all

Unknown Speaker 4:37
ages we had that's remember, they paid about $30 Because they only got paid about $50 a month.

Unknown Speaker 4:46
There was a fella you mentioned

Unknown Speaker 4:49
spring for spring for

Unknown Speaker 4:50
about the same time. What does he

Unknown Speaker 4:57
came off and on He wants to come in in the 20s state then he went up to the interior and he was a carpenter and then came back to the state here's a world

Unknown Speaker 5:19
from First of all, and I guess a lot of your guests must have been repeaters every year with a very quiet in winter setting

Unknown Speaker 5:32
so we you know we got we have schoolteacher people like that

Unknown Speaker 5:35
you probably have better business than than the people who run resorts have no place to sit now I think there's nothing doing in the wintertime

Unknown Speaker 5:48
I was surprised with them putting on all these bedrooms because at night I don't see right suddenly that part of the house

Unknown Speaker 5:56
they might be they might be anticipating some convention business they weren't Weren't they talking about building a convention center it's a logical place I think that I'd love to come for a retreat your business people

Unknown Speaker 6:15
but then they haven't got anything in the way of entertainment I mean, Harish and Lisa dropped into a swimming pool and I could have revealed something to

Unknown Speaker 6:27
Chris Chris some of these companies they want people to work so they don't they're not too keen about entertainment. I remember when I used to work for publishing companies they often had their sales conferences at places like places like this it was very pleasant but boy did they ever work hard because there's nothing else to do it might be some tennis courts out there but I never got a chance to you know busy working that have sessions in the evening and start writing the morning and tennis sessions in the evening. The whole day was gone and so it seems very nice when you thought about it you know you went to this place but when you thought about it afterwards and more so with any of these people like Chris he seems to be the most interesting of a lot

Unknown Speaker 7:19
I was reading because he I don't know what you describe them is very short guys he's fixing things and in the winter when he couldn't play golf he used your six chairs Cox whom everything else

Unknown Speaker 7:39
is also great for entertaining

Unknown Speaker 7:44
summer he did because we're all driving and fishing and and then he bought some property for tax money for about $200 or something and many amazing little Parker Mr. Ross say Mr. Ross named Stanley Park he made benches and he had better showed

Unknown Speaker 8:19
were we're just past the I call it the parties watershed in this process, okay. Billy,

Unknown Speaker 8:40
you mentioned on the tape. Good Charlo.

Unknown Speaker 8:51
Proper photo colorful. All right.

Unknown Speaker 9:03
He was certainly a dominant figure in the hotel.

Unknown Speaker 9:09
So he began working who wrote this.

Unknown Speaker 9:13
I wrote the original Tony Richards rewrote

Unknown Speaker 9:18
the reunion. I think he follows

Unknown Speaker 9:27
the same

Unknown Speaker 9:29
picture, the same picture. That's definitely a picture cut off here.

Unknown Speaker 9:38
But when he came over the reunion about I don't know which one it was about 10 years ago. He was the most popular person man everybody wants to see Billy it was quite a character

Unknown Speaker 9:50
because it like he had quite a strong personality. Oh, he

Unknown Speaker 9:54
did he Doctor us was the number one when he came back to the reunion. I was wrong on their own for quite a few years, probably Russia as far as their game they all lined up to see him. I couldn't I didn't get to see him because the first time he came to see a mother, she used to suffer from terrible headaches. So dad brought her in the room and gave one look at mother and he said you should look sick to me. And because we were losing we coat that still because you know her doctor Charlotte tip to me. He was polished he was

Unknown Speaker 10:50
one of the things everybody liked him. I'm not saying he was awfully good to my father when he was ill because dad would have these heart attacks in the middle of the night. And Dr. Rush would come down at four o'clock in the morning. company devoted myself who didn't know what to do. And he only charged $4 A business in the middle of a mate you know, he was a great CCF dad was conservative. They used to add to politics. But on the other hand the tope Daddy wants to argue politics because

Unknown Speaker 11:41
he must have gotten along with good enough. I agree lifting like he was he was the aperture that I know I was talking to, to Malcolm bond. And I think Malcolm bond must be very arch conservative, because he didn't seem to think too much of a socialist. Didn't seem to think too much of socialist. Socialist. Oh

Unknown Speaker 12:17
no, I don't have a chip on my shoulder.

Unknown Speaker 12:24
So yeah,

Unknown Speaker 12:28
I'm Jesse Brown. I guess you'd always want to Mr. Burke. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 12:32
We're actually I was supposed to get get together with Malcolm and talk about his father but he's, he's going off to China now. Yes, I'm sort of been there and he did that before he was there for four months with with his family and he went to different places. And

Unknown Speaker 12:54
it's something to do with his veterinary practice. He's been invited to go back for a six week period not quite sure exactly what he's doing if he's teaching people or might be teaching doing some kind of

Unknown Speaker 13:09
work from a support as you probably know. Then he was voted came around on his own then he used to work at Harbor house is private

Unknown Speaker 13:22
with a vegetable garden that he used to sell vegetables we used to ever have a wonderful garden I tell them all this Wallace Jesse would come around until his resume was

Unknown Speaker 13:44
there the the feeling he did he did when he cooked at Harvard had the city ever cook any Chinese food

Unknown Speaker 13:56
Chinese party we'd have at the end of the season

Unknown Speaker 13:58
we had a Chinese party party

Unknown Speaker 14:02
called the steak houses really held it

Unknown Speaker 14:05
to the people people didn't really like the things like Chinese food

Unknown Speaker 14:10
or didn't have any Chinese that was running to Chinese only

Unknown Speaker 14:13
a bit Bernie to say he didn't like the style of cooking

Unknown Speaker 14:19
I don't think so. Murphy English people

Unknown Speaker 14:26
today are much bigger variety. They like teamwork because

Unknown Speaker 14:32
we become a multi cultural

Unknown Speaker 14:40
she can see how long ago was she was terribly things that the Red Guards are down

Unknown Speaker 14:50
it's actually quite an extreme

Unknown Speaker 14:56
microbook to me, but just detail about the food that she didn't eat.

Unknown Speaker 15:05
was interesting because we would go to restaurants there, and the food would be would be sitting outside in cages because they really liked their food fresh. So you'd have you'd have little hedgehogs you'd have rabbits, chickens, you know if that's what you ordered, then they went out open the cage took the animal and took it in the back and that's what

Unknown Speaker 15:31
I wouldn't have

Unknown Speaker 15:37
saved apparently

Unknown Speaker 15:41
Queen Erin Oh really? She saw this rat

Unknown Speaker 15:52
BBQ. Very popular

Unknown Speaker 15:59
Cobra. COBRA COBRA I haven't I didn't come across that in Thailand. Most of the things most of the things I found were seafood yeah

Unknown Speaker 16:11
yeah, we've had several couples in our country up the hill country has been going on these trips that go up as a village on a dirt floor

Unknown Speaker 16:30
but by

Unknown Speaker 16:30
the same thing for pleasure

Unknown Speaker 16:40
works in Hong Kong about four or five years ago he was going to marry a Chinese girl

Unknown Speaker 16:51
in Hong Kong, you're going to get married and have children we got to talk

Unknown Speaker 17:01
about Chinese Chinese girl she said the Chinese people are horrible. Anything

Unknown Speaker 17:15
Well, it's true. They will eat anything. So what if he was he fairly accepted? When he fairly accepted by people at all? Yes, he was

Unknown Speaker 17:27
supposed to give us who was only to one on the Chinese on the hour. I don't know why he said all those years but I guess we were his family because right one child, China and

Unknown Speaker 17:43
ever bring them over.

Unknown Speaker 17:46
Lifetime she dies. First boy, Peter and he went to high school down here

Unknown Speaker 18:01
legislation came

Unknown Speaker 18:06
along with the Chinese

Unknown Speaker 18:13
Canadian citizen, Dan McIntosh. You don't have to get it for them to get very good get laundry elder. I had quite a time with

Unknown Speaker 18:29
a wonderful sense of humor. You'd have to have.

Unknown Speaker 18:35
So you must have he must have worked here a long time.

Unknown Speaker 18:39
I think he came in about 25

Unknown Speaker 18:45
years. He came to Canada in 1920 and began working as a cook

Unknown Speaker 18:55
and then came to the

Unknown Speaker 18:58
How did you find him out of the hotel

Unknown Speaker 19:01
show it was over in Vancouver and he was got an interview with a Chinese agency I really just said I can do the job. Don't worry or whatever you know, just didn't so save as a wonderful cook. I get hammered. Who Graham picked him out. which one it

Unknown Speaker 19:28
was he was he was he planning to hire a Chinese couple with his just happened to be that way. I mean, were you looking for where the Chinese go? Yes,

Unknown Speaker 19:37
he was it was in Vancouver and he interviewed and I think he was the first Chinese could we ever had that one before?

Unknown Speaker 19:50
How many how many people would have cooked for probably

Unknown Speaker 19:58
4550 of them because you're in the tennis Thomas's really when we have our big crowds

Unknown Speaker 20:07
during the war that they would come over with about 280 people.

Unknown Speaker 20:16
I think so yeah and it was

Unknown Speaker 20:19
the Christmas dinners how many people come from

Unknown Speaker 20:22
Mexico 73

Unknown Speaker 20:24
people a Christmas dinner

Unknown Speaker 20:28
and then we always had the veterans down the program or the older veterans and then they kept it up and they just come from the other islands of veterans

Unknown Speaker 20:43
huge meals canal

Unknown Speaker 20:46
volunteers. I should take some notes

Unknown Speaker 20:50
about billing Oh yeah. But actually funny anyway, but I turned to Chinese the other one used to be sell vegetables but they also did our vegetable garden in the early part.

Unknown Speaker 21:12
Anyway, he said to me, we are ordered to put rice so I didn't know what he meant put lace and cover next time and say, did you give me that foot race? He said some people on baby carriages meaning fresher throat. Anyway, I was getting really worried about this. So I thought it was great to march through the Shelby put on put price. So she went to the pound upstairs and asked for it. No, they didn't know what it was. They sent it down to the feature. Anyway, never heard of it down there. Anyway, we find the ability to have played it was criminalized. But we did drop a little badly for price and fertilizer

Unknown Speaker 22:15
did you want to

Unknown Speaker 22:19
I think I took some notes. I think it's okay. I wish I did some of the things

Unknown Speaker 22:31
I'll be looking at especially related to the rewarded

Unknown Speaker 22:40
tab that we like John young chap. He loads about tennis shorts and

Unknown Speaker 22:53
Grimm is really likable and a very likable guy.

Unknown Speaker 22:57
He was very easy.

Unknown Speaker 23:02
Here's some more names. I have you the Mr. Hate. Who was Mr. Hate. Hey, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 23:07
You played in the orchestra? Okay. I think you played the saxophone. That's right, play the piano. They do. Now normally ours though, we call cops.

Unknown Speaker 23:19
Now that that's one of the sister islands. So they own the castle Castle Island needs to come over from

Unknown Speaker 23:29
their own boat. And I went to school as a kid. You should bring them over to school. But then also you can play some of

Unknown Speaker 23:38
that was his

Unknown Speaker 23:40
wife played piano. Her name was

Unknown Speaker 23:47
it was there. I know.

Unknown Speaker 23:50
And then there was a Mrs.

Unknown Speaker 23:53
She she was on the pulpit in one time. Okay, so that was the White House.

Unknown Speaker 24:01
That was his name. He was known as Poppy.

Unknown Speaker 24:06
He's an office he became the postmaster up here. They moved over here. They still will be moved up here and he was the postmaster for years.

Unknown Speaker 24:16
And she had she had a boarding house or something.

Unknown Speaker 24:19
They call it the White House.

Unknown Speaker 24:22
But she used to come to her house to educate.

Unknown Speaker 24:26
Saturday night we had dances every Saturday night.

Unknown Speaker 24:29
And it was at the same time that she was also running the White House so she she'd leave her place come to work

Unknown Speaker 24:43
I don't think she was moved to Ganges they ran a tear

Unknown Speaker 24:52
so what did she also playing instruments?

Unknown Speaker 24:55
Did she also play in the events? Leading played the parallel she or she played the piano? My

Unknown Speaker 25:01
husband played the sector. So Mr.

Unknown Speaker 25:04
President, you said Bill, hey,

Unknown Speaker 25:06
we're ready to separate time. I think he's a person

Unknown Speaker 25:18
and you think her husband played the saxophone tour? I know. So when would that have been in the 30? What kind of music What kind of music that they play? The museum

Unknown Speaker 25:45
people Saturday nights get the Vancouver Yacht Club. Different boats from all on Saturday night. It was really great something but we had to close at 12 So there's a party in what we call the psychos. Alright. Why did you have to go to

Unknown Speaker 26:13
sunrise it was a private dance we get down

Unknown Speaker 26:17
and it was was it the same every night? It wasn't a change like Friday night to be the same Monday? Yeah, so I have to close it

Unknown Speaker 26:29
yeah I think you said on the tape that you didn't charge very much and

Unknown Speaker 26:36
I was pretty proud of what you said on the tape that in a heartbeat covers the cost of the bear.

Unknown Speaker 26:42
I know it didn't pay I

Unknown Speaker 26:48
just I had to close the poll. Because it's Sunday

Unknown Speaker 26:56
at 12 and if you had a special license

Unknown Speaker 26:59
if you had a dad able to have a dance on a Wednesday night say it would have been different than when the

Unknown Speaker 27:10
get a lot of girls that can stay in the summer. The boys would come by boat.

Unknown Speaker 27:16
Yeah. Many, many people would come from 100

Unknown Speaker 27:31
Were there any pictures of yours the pictures of people taking pictures? I guess Jesse Jesse Bonnie's take a lot of pictures in the photographs.

Unknown Speaker 27:46
I know the one he took a hotel that had a breakdown

Unknown Speaker 27:53
but when did people take pictures of your dances? No. No you don't have many pictures from that period of time

Unknown Speaker 28:05
one of the photographs in the album

Unknown Speaker 28:15
we didn't take any envelopes Did you did you

Unknown Speaker 28:19
did you feel that there was any competition because I was like for example was the full per diem any competition there's any

Unknown Speaker 28:26
no not. I think the biggest was when they had the log cabin. Changes game so many times. The board kind of felt

Unknown Speaker 28:35
it was a time that was competition.

Unknown Speaker 28:41
For me I was only really trying to fit in. But then during the wall we

Unknown Speaker 28:55
were all for Australia

Unknown Speaker 29:00
which were the second second one was quite busy during the war.

Unknown Speaker 29:10
People couldn't get gas and Mary would come in from Vancouver and people would get off because they had no reservations. It was awful John you could tell that used to drive them around the island. We have no bed and breakfast Sam but some of them sort of

Unknown Speaker 29:39
you also mentioned in the tape you mentioned the scavenger hunts they were they were a big thing. And that was that just connected with the tennis tournaments or did you have

Unknown Speaker 29:49
a separate from what we did have a join a camera

Unknown Speaker 29:56
but you also had had entertainment other times as well. How did everybody get involved in Mali? They were very popular people

Unknown Speaker 30:15
when did you when did you first start having them do you remember when did you first start having scavenger hunts

Unknown Speaker 30:24
that we had discovered

Unknown Speaker 30:34
during the world

Unknown Speaker 30:35
we know he didn't have them before the crab race on the military was

Unknown Speaker 30:42
great What was that

Unknown Speaker 30:46
each team had a crab shoot them on it didn't go from one end

Unknown Speaker 31:00
the day better than

Unknown Speaker 31:08
was there

Unknown Speaker 31:11
did you have to did you have to have a liquor license in those days to serve liquor or hotels or

Unknown Speaker 31:21
dances when it comes to the in the early days they use free sounds to me just for the hotel itself

Unknown Speaker 31:30
are you talking about the the ones that this played out and the ones that played

Unknown Speaker 31:38
now this was just me we didn't have I don't know who played the piano I think somewhere I because he loud. There were a guest but it was really just the house so that was half the fun. I don't need to draw myself that would be quite long

Unknown Speaker 32:07
winded up now

Unknown Speaker 32:09
without a theme in the 20s

Unknown Speaker 32:12
Yes, because I was only about 10 years old

Unknown Speaker 32:22
and they were just for the guests

Unknown Speaker 32:24
but they come up and amazing costumes and

Unknown Speaker 32:38
those days that all of the guests use the drug arrange the toll on some fancy grandson rally as we did last week. We had to help do the entertaining people were getting more sophisticated

Unknown Speaker 32:55
so I guess in terms of entertainment on the island Harvard has really provided quite a lot

Unknown Speaker 33:04
in the media used to have our meetings there everything was a powerhouse really only from telephone

Unknown Speaker 33:20
gave everything free we never charged for anything

Unknown Speaker 33:23
around and did you did you? Did you get a credit cross section of people like did you get people working at malls? Or was it more of a more of an upper upper class Queenstown

Unknown Speaker 33:42
to say John, I'd been a little bit of the

Unknown Speaker 33:45
game going on anybody who was a veteran garden

Unknown Speaker 33:56
I guess it was more of a private dowsers I'm thinking that was a little bit more printers I grew up my clinic and everybody

Unknown Speaker 34:11
they know some of the talks talking about entertainment. They often talk about the schools you know in dances at the school. These are these are working class people. They don't nobody's none of them mentioned going to Harvard

Unknown Speaker 34:31
the charley horse little description that will help Canadians

Unknown Speaker 34:45
be faster than everybody

Unknown Speaker 34:50

Unknown Speaker 34:57
yeah But for anyone who will let people become

Unknown Speaker 35:09
intimately charged with a fancy hotel

Unknown Speaker 35:19
have what people came in out of the vehicle anybody wouldn't be restricted when they get there

Unknown Speaker 35:30
that was in my late 20s I guess

Unknown Speaker 35:34
so it's pretty limited no 21

Unknown Speaker 35:50
Zero they came in 21 when we didn't have a big pile of them making 21 on Sunday 21

Unknown Speaker 36:04
Dermot was born in 1904 So that will be 1925

Unknown Speaker 36:11
My grandfather wanted to run the bill

Unknown Speaker 36:23
when I when I was a kid anyone with the majority now now it's different all over the place usually

Unknown Speaker 36:37
they said the nature of the beer and go on to the bathroom hope it was

Unknown Speaker 36:47
all it was more fun

Unknown Speaker 36:51
when the draft I guess

Unknown Speaker 36:53
no no we didn't we certainly did

Unknown Speaker 37:02
that at the beer parlor attract a cross section of people

Unknown Speaker 37:08
there any new everybody so it's quite

Unknown Speaker 37:12
so you used to spend time in the beer parlor to

Unknown Speaker 37:20
the actual

Unknown Speaker 37:26
with any entertainment in the bureau could mean we couldn't I remember

Unknown Speaker 37:35
when I first moved to the US to coach a cup of oatmeal in the morning I think it was 11 o'clock that went on Lebanon with no coding for separate then they brought in my coach for six days or two

Unknown Speaker 38:02
look like a big

Unknown Speaker 38:11
picture of you

Unknown Speaker 38:14
and I don't know why it is

Unknown Speaker 38:17
I should look at some of these things before are you going to we're going to lend me the

Unknown Speaker 38:31
starter but quite interesting. Last because you can take what you offer this is my sister during June when a dirty more

Unknown Speaker 39:03
we do

Unknown Speaker 39:09
have a mother's standard for two three years and then she remembers her wedding or wedding receptions used to be an emotional needs also people who already have the middle one is my sister that the eldest sister and the one on the right is a cousin.

Unknown Speaker 39:58
The whole fat way take a while to

Unknown Speaker 40:16
get back to the work

Unknown Speaker 40:19
John father I think he's gonna have I think you're right

Unknown Speaker 40:30
which which one are you in this picture

Unknown Speaker 40:38
glory we all began with right

Unknown Speaker 40:48
why did they why did they do that?

Unknown Speaker 40:51
Massage Sam and Desmond is a family name growing I guess I managed to need French but I think by that time I think people started suggesting names

Unknown Speaker 41:10
My name Donovan because school is called donkey and Patrick Patrick have a sense of how do

Unknown Speaker 41:25
you see him do you see him much

Unknown Speaker 41:27
he's the only one left the COVID

Unknown Speaker 41:37
that he comes to visit come to visit

Unknown Speaker 41:41
with John and I said Christmas was always coming from a memory joined out from John Duncan

Unknown Speaker 42:01

Unknown Speaker 42:12
the crosses are an Irish family would you would you think that they were much different from an Englishman

Unknown Speaker 42:26
doesn't have any Irish or Northern right again didn't have an Irish accent

Unknown Speaker 42:35
so this would be a picture somebody

Unknown Speaker 42:43
from a

Unknown Speaker 42:49
a wall

Unknown Speaker 43:05
mother and the eldest boy

Unknown Speaker 43:30
I've got the telescope

Unknown Speaker 43:36
sounds awful. Sounds awful.

Unknown Speaker 43:42
Whether it's written these days

Unknown Speaker 43:47
we just moved to a new house

Unknown Speaker 43:49
in November November my sister for a long time because she was ill. She helped me Morris house up the road on the renovating

Unknown Speaker 44:04
so you just moved here in November so this house was put here in November How are you lucky

Unknown Speaker 44:17
very much. Well, my two nephews they put up the building and I can live here as long as I live it's my property. And I have a trailer as I save the last 20 years with my sister

Unknown Speaker 44:40
when did your sister die

Unknown Speaker 44:46
two years ago between October

Unknown Speaker 44:55
male was brought about the same year. He died in March and she does not pellet

Unknown Speaker 45:06
Did you find any interesting pictures

Unknown Speaker 45:10
it gives you going through these about the carefree attitude

Unknown Speaker 45:24
it could be an uncle mother's old home with a golf club right amazing this is all taken

Unknown Speaker 45:39
the name Barbara has also comes from comes from

Unknown Speaker 45:44
home in our home we call really the family

Unknown Speaker 45:56
what kind of what kind of what were the coffins involved in in Ireland what kind of business

Unknown Speaker 46:16
this was in northern Iraq I think

Unknown Speaker 46:27
the bonds are related by marriage bonds can go away

Unknown Speaker 46:35
and the moms broke mom Hall

Unknown Speaker 46:44
But dad was a wonderful mixture of people that he hadn't a good chance that he'll he didn't drink himself but he used to look after the ones that did.

Unknown Speaker 46:59
So within were there with their son with their other brother

Unknown Speaker 47:08
pensioners $5 A month Alan might might be able to have it running around and we

Unknown Speaker 47:19
also ran some lumber camp. Where did she start to invest? You know, but what what year?

Unknown Speaker 47:30
20 or something. When I can show

Unknown Speaker 47:35
that come across references to actually there might be I think there's some material in the material that your group prepared. I don't know who did the lumbering section I think I think it was I think Bob rush that he did some work on the limbering. So he probably has information on winning because I gather she was quite successful with her. Winning was quite successful.

Unknown Speaker 48:10
Oh, yeah. She made her money and login. I guess her first cousin was one of those child's father. Then he died as he had happened. And he was also allowed.

Unknown Speaker 48:25
Okay. Didn't didn't get split up or something. Didn't they? Didn't they split up? Didn't? You laughter didn't because I know in the luminescence that Chuck Charlie Horrell wrote he talks about his parents splitting up when he was very young and then there's a lot of references to Charlie who are walking around barefoot or something

Unknown Speaker 48:51
a very high level one time Yeah. Because that works for us. They used to I think it was going to be caused me to suck anyway the next thing she knew that Rama picking him they could have the meat that'd be a handling

Unknown Speaker 49:18
so did you did you know the the halls were they were they people you knew before the war or before that? Could you say that practice regimen brought people together? But before that, how did you know

Unknown Speaker 49:40
we didn't make socially with them. I mean, everybody knew each other. They've always kept their own

Unknown Speaker 49:56
each each sort of group kept to its own or With a large black population still around, I think

Unknown Speaker 50:07
we're not the old timers, but people like

Unknown Speaker 50:11
the Harrisons and the Anderson Did you know now thinking back to around

Unknown Speaker 50:23
well, the Amazon, they had very good lawyers, they have some bonus and I used to sing them the remarks

Unknown Speaker 50:32
were they end up going the children. They moved off

Unknown Speaker 50:39
the last one has a big problem of severity. I think he left the two blue cash and which was his nephew, I think.

Unknown Speaker 50:46
Also the Andersons were related to the Andersons in the Harrisons were related. They were the same family.

Unknown Speaker 50:54
So I'm getting muddled up. I think they lead but they were they were pretty big brothers. I think. Harrison

Unknown Speaker 51:06
there was an earnest Harrison. I keep coming. Did you know him?

Unknown Speaker 51:13
I mean, I was quite young. I think he might be the one that had the big problem. He wasn't married. He left it to his nephew, I think. And he still

Unknown Speaker 51:26
so you wouldn't explain people like that socially, but you would have seen them or

Unknown Speaker 51:30
an Allison or I remember him. He was very tall. But he went a little bit odd immediately. Have a pot got on the properties as they call it. What do they call it now? Are you talking

Unknown Speaker 51:50
the world right at the Drummond Drummond Drummond Park. Yes. That was

Unknown Speaker 51:58
the history Well, holism Ganges down to this place and this park was alone.

Unknown Speaker 52:10
I think there was an article

Unknown Speaker 52:17
revealed that that must have been awfully close to be Hamilton to sort that out. Somebody had said that was called Drummond park but the Germans weren't wasn't even their land apparently, was Anderson's land was from

Unknown Speaker 52:47
Yeah, Jim Anderson, when you're picking up Jim Anderson, the Barefoot black man who lived along Isabel Point Road just south of grand Gulch. In the 1950s. Jim was a beach cover and as he searched the interesting finds he actually swept the beach at the big rock below his property. He made a park out of the land and invited people to use it for picnics free of charge. Does that ring a bell? Every evening the neighbors were treated?

Unknown Speaker 53:19
Yeah, right. Know

Unknown Speaker 53:26
because every evening, the neighbors were treated to the last post to order pack war veterans. And every morning he sounded Ready at Dawn. Jim Anderson lived in several locations on Saltspring Island and had friends in both north and south end. They may be Islanders who still remember him as a primary man and friends. Well. It's interesting because most of the black people were in the north end. A couple of years

Unknown Speaker 53:53
lived up. I have an idea. He lives with his family and they start work. That might be wrong, but he used to work to pull

Unknown Speaker 54:04
you off the floor. I must have taken a bit of time.

Unknown Speaker 54:08
So that's what always fascinated me. There's neither woken up. I mean, it's Crockett which was unusual. I think it was rather first we'll probably have

Unknown Speaker 54:22
people used to do the same thing that walk or go for

Unknown Speaker 54:27
the call was didn't like people that own the land and like going on the property. Oh, it isn't. No. People did because he loves fitness quite a way from wherever house was. Never like people going. No. Oh, I see. Some reason accepted by side of those two brothers.

Unknown Speaker 54:49
Friends of mine. You know Wayne Taylor, Wayne Taylor. He grew up on the island. Right inherit Taylor Taylor He runs the car kayaking Alright, he's also He teaches at Ganges school. He told me that there were quite a few weddings on the Caldwell on Walker hook that used to be a popular place for weddings. But I guess you'd have to have been a friend of the Caldwells to arrange that

Unknown Speaker 55:24
I think I heard about a private home yeah

Unknown Speaker 55:32
maybe maybe he was thinking more a family family weddings so I had a few questions about some of our harbor house. We were wondering you remember the exact year close down was it 1962 64 or 164?

Unknown Speaker 56:00
Jack is the jack

Unknown Speaker 56:04

Unknown Speaker 56:07
of a house but he bought it became a powerhouse hotel brackets 1964

Unknown Speaker 56:16
What was brackets 64

Unknown Speaker 56:19
brackets 1964 All right.

Unknown Speaker 56:29
And I also noticed that in that article that you that you wrote for the historical society you mentioned that when they put in the tennis courts that have been in the 20s when you put in the tennis courts was that in the 1920s

Unknown Speaker 56:47
I should mention the first quarter about

Unknown Speaker 56:50
you found a lot of a lot of bones there was a

Unknown Speaker 56:56
maple tree that they are you know about that John is our profile and having to ask for a baffle was taken on over the Indians

Unknown Speaker 57:05
Yeah. But the when you think you mentioned that it was a graveyard you thought it was

Unknown Speaker 57:21
a practice of the Indians not forgotten. But there's that dead in the middle of itself because it was spared my uncle Derek was clearing the land that they paid for the tennis court that he came upon.

Unknown Speaker 57:45
Also, they also found quite a few and when Beth Hill was doing her sort of the same area Yeah, wasn't it just a trick show but it's sort of the same. You think he could have been the same village by

Unknown Speaker 58:05
bringing on archeological dig for Simon Fraser the archaeologist says

Unknown Speaker 58:15
what to do the shells pile up and pile up and then they move to another area so you can see as you dig down into the various levels

Unknown Speaker 58:40
but when would they have put bodies

Unknown Speaker 58:43
well that was the original way of varying above ground could call a burial

Unknown Speaker 58:59
we believe that that was firstly the barrier

Unknown Speaker 59:03
and there's another there's another island called barrier island around Brock there you know when you go towards masquerade there's there's an island called Barry allow in there which is supposed to be

Unknown Speaker 59:16
directly opposite office there's a small island called idle hollow

Unknown Speaker 59:24
very people there and I understand they found something on Walter Bay on that. I read somewhere that they found some things in trees there that have come

Unknown Speaker 59:48
down your body or better throat. Yeah, that's where the Tellico Well, that's where they used to come and counseling because the records and bonuses, you know It would be a good idea to be friendly with

Unknown Speaker 1:00:11

Unknown Speaker 1:00:16
So, so the 10 tennis court with a big mid and middle area where the tennis courts I guess if you weren't if you're going to make tennis courts there today you probably have a problem with a big missionary or debate Well, I guess there's so many archaeological people wouldn't wouldn't be

Unknown Speaker 1:00:40
the President do a dig

Unknown Speaker 1:00:48
and what did they find anything interesting?

Unknown Speaker 1:00:49
Well, the usual stuff

Unknown Speaker 1:00:58
when they find implementing things, they take them away off to the did that was what they found that

Unknown Speaker 1:01:08
our government said when he was working on the record, you know, coming close to discovering bones are Mrs. Castle, I asked her to federalize.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:23
I was interested in some of the personalities at Harvard. They've done some of the personalities like I listened to. I

Unknown Speaker 1:01:32
guess you've heard a lot about Mr. Bullock

Unknown Speaker 1:01:35
recorded with Mr. Bullock I was I was hesitating about mentioning Mr. Bullock because Jordan seem to clinic

Unknown Speaker 1:01:52
I don't think anybody's seen as it's been off the brothers I just came across I used to come to harbor house every Sunday

Unknown Speaker 1:02:01
How old would he have been there?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:04
Were to me it was always an old man. But I think in the 60s guys are on the other side of the original harbor house.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:15
On the other side

Unknown Speaker 1:02:22
I think as for for my granddad, it was

Unknown Speaker 1:02:32
a lovely picture somebody somebody told me that he wasn't on great terms with with Reverend Wilson. I think it was

Unknown Speaker 1:02:46
totally well the reason the relationship never had that because the first of all, the Reverend was very evangelical. Whereas Mr. Bullock out of the very freedom lifestyle enjoy leaving drinking

Unknown Speaker 1:03:18
was very difficult to do everybody had a conflict of interest. He had his pure datacolor ideas about how people should behave. But also at the same time he needed money for his church provided that conflict of interest because of his lifestyle, but at the same time he had the money which he gave to the church.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:39
So it's kind of a compromise

Unknown Speaker 1:03:44
is about a survival and when it comes to survival, you got to make compromises and conditions

Unknown Speaker 1:03:53
it's strange that he wouldn't he wouldn't he wouldn't have agreed to to christen your sister because of that, her name

Unknown Speaker 1:04:06
I forgotten about that.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:08
So the roof to cover under Krishna, somebody Victoria

Unknown Speaker 1:04:15
that that caused any family problems?

Unknown Speaker 1:04:18
I don't think so.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:26
No, I didn't really I don't think was your job. Great while the keeping the family together. They will have a big family anyway. And then when he went to California, it seems they all went down and terilyn stayed there. rented houses him so he's very strict and all that but I think he's also very kind.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:56
Anybody that's totally above and beyond, but he wasn't kind The gentleman

Unknown Speaker 1:05:03
was a great mother and dad and he spoke very kindly and he said he really was they tell him and his habits everything

Unknown Speaker 1:05:17
seems to be a kind of a renaissance man painted and

Unknown Speaker 1:05:22
it doesn't take up come to when he first came to Canada I think he went to university back then he said he had the call fully so he really was he knew a lot about agriculture.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:37
Did he go to the University of Guelph I think that because any then he was in Ontario for quite a while I think what they did did your mother ever ever speak about about about what it was like being being his daughter

Unknown Speaker 1:05:58
expect to have services about three times a day and that sort of thing? Maybe a little bit but I know you'll pause anyway.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:12
Did he Did he spend much time now he's away a lot yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:18
I have the story because

Unknown Speaker 1:06:25
that's what I wanted to read about it he was he was

Unknown Speaker 1:06:29
was 11 children that have a nanny or whatever they call them and the government's and all that sort of there

Unknown Speaker 1:06:40
what was your What was your grandmother like?

Unknown Speaker 1:06:43
She was very sweet. Nice gentle woman. Tony

Unknown Speaker 1:06:51
any better to talk to Tony No,

Unknown Speaker 1:06:54
we're on nobody got the information he had information on I never heard ready. Oh really?

Unknown Speaker 1:07:06
Yeah. Check the authority that I came up with. This comes from the Oxford Dictionary defines

Unknown Speaker 1:07:22
dispatch as revenue

Unknown Speaker 1:07:29

Unknown Speaker 1:07:44
Deer Creek, by Deer Creek by Craig

Unknown Speaker 1:07:54
it's sort of almost like malapropisms.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:02
So she was Was she completely overshadowed by

Unknown Speaker 1:08:07
him? When I saw my nursing home, imagine? Yes, I should manage his read read anything but she

Unknown Speaker 1:08:19
must have been she must have been very much involved in the upbringing of the children. Oh, yeah. It wasn't there. No. Would they have had? Would they have had servants?

Unknown Speaker 1:08:32
They are on the Wilson family

Unknown Speaker 1:08:43

Unknown Speaker 1:08:44
I've got a copy. Oh, yeah. I will. I've just started reading it and I got I've also got he's got his parish and home. You know, the little magazine.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:01
I've got one there.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:08
That's the promotional thing. He wrote on soldiers a lot of good information. When I get to that period, there's a lot of there's a lot of information available. Thanks to you.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:23
I remember when they came to the car, I think they had a couple of girls or somebody. Boy Scouts

Unknown Speaker 1:09:36
What about your own center? We did Weather Service in your own family service. Did you have any servants in your

Unknown Speaker 1:09:45
role you had a hotel before that? No. Used to have what they call maybe what they call themselves a baby helps that came out from England. And they were bad for that board to help So that's a problem when he best a chap by the name of cartrack Brooklyn summer. Have

Unknown Speaker 1:10:14
you ever read it? Or heard about

Unknown Speaker 1:10:18
it you mentioned Sturmer dad and uncle Lou had to go to Sydney to get a doctor there wasn't a doctor on the island. You remember five years I think. And then he left he said he loves it so much. Just the farm life and mother might say a charming person made everybody feel welcome and those who didn't leave the rest of his life.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:49
This is this Cartwright remembers versus Michael You say he wrote he wrote a book

Unknown Speaker 1:10:59
late summer late summer

Unknown Speaker 1:11:05
Why did he come here? I don't know.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:07
Anyway, he came here by the just came out and

Unknown Speaker 1:11:13
was just traveling. I guess.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:16
This thing I ran into a book in Vancouver that somebody had written again, somebody from England who who was traveling around any section of the book and it's not that useful but it's interesting to see his perspective you know this was an early night he talked about walking from Ganges to Fulford

Unknown Speaker 1:11:50
my uncle who's down

Unknown Speaker 1:11:53
there were interested in me when he said it was a boring walk and I don't think anything is enchanting

Unknown Speaker 1:12:10
before the

Unknown Speaker 1:12:15
father's mother's life

Unknown Speaker 1:12:36
anybody wanting them all to work out you ready? Ready buddy? You're caught cold

Unknown Speaker 1:12:57
that's your decision

Unknown Speaker 1:13:16
all right

Unknown Speaker 1:13:34
nobody's very happy

Unknown Speaker 1:13:50
see what are we left with a very simple problem

Unknown Speaker 1:14:02
These photos are part of the display I did I did a presentation with it it was a joy Colonel soldier because

Unknown Speaker 1:14:28
did you this was run into as a producing farm producing a million pounds at this and at the same time. It was also the Hotel The hotel was also functional.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:42
Oh yeah sure. Because

Unknown Speaker 1:14:45
my mother she had been

Unknown Speaker 1:14:55
right now we're sitting on property that didn't belong originally belong to right With

Unknown Speaker 1:15:02
all of this

Unknown Speaker 1:15:09
considering you have a problem with your head and you're doing awfully well

Unknown Speaker 1:15:18
thank you very much so the farm that unit

Unknown Speaker 1:15:36
basically your your your father and mother

Unknown Speaker 1:15:50
so, so the round this property from here on out and at that point the hotel where it belongs

Unknown Speaker 1:16:12
When did you go

Unknown Speaker 1:16:15
43 to 42

Unknown Speaker 1:16:21
Do I have that on your on your didn't get

Unknown Speaker 1:16:30
you know what God was born?

Unknown Speaker 1:16:35
No, I know what a good hold was he when

Unknown Speaker 1:16:38
he was 16 when he came up?

Unknown Speaker 1:16:41
He arrived at

Unknown Speaker 1:16:48
six few years after, they might have listened to me rather than 94 and that came in 96

Unknown Speaker 1:17:03
I have different dates here. But I wondered if

Unknown Speaker 1:17:16
I had broke coming in 99

Unknown Speaker 1:17:21
We got a reunion last year. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:25
So with 96 What about Frank? Frank? Frank

Unknown Speaker 1:17:37
was his younger brother. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:17:38
what year did he come? I have no idea was it after? Yes. I had no idea

Unknown Speaker 1:17:48
and and what what's your was he the first one to come?

Unknown Speaker 1:17:54
No, I was the first time to comment on the outer boundaries of a navy

Unknown Speaker 1:18:01
you know what, what's your you

Unknown Speaker 1:18:03
know, I don't but it was similar. I would say around 90 or something 89 You know, 999 98

Unknown Speaker 1:18:20
Frank earnest didn't come at the same time

Unknown Speaker 1:18:28

Unknown Speaker 1:18:37
you and he was 16 when he came. So yeah, so we're, we're thinking he might have been born in 1880. I have your I have your mother and we have your mother's date 1878.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:11
gotten that? You get that from Thomson Bob Thompson.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:14
I might have Yeah. Quite a bit of information. So one of the things I was interested in, in planning, some work, where the people the personalities came to her house like there seemed to be a number of means that you mentioned when you talk to you talk to somebody named Ruth Sandwell seven years ago.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:39
She Americans know she was from Ontario, actually. The person who would have been a mess right after the show, but I just you know, she haven't been first time I met her phone and could she come to and I don't think she stayed on the radar did

Unknown Speaker 1:19:57
nothing wrong. They did buy property here.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:00
I'm ready at the time that that she came to the bottom of the old bullet property.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:07
And she was

Unknown Speaker 1:20:07
in what we call the tournaments. They were old timers there when she came to see Dawn myself, that's very close to the property.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:19
That's where I think they brought eventually. But they didn't keep it very long. Two or three years maybe. And I think I think it's part of the land it's been developed I think it's part of the land that's now being

Unknown Speaker 1:20:37
brought half happened here because I never did hear the tapes. I don't think

Unknown Speaker 1:20:44
that I could have brought you where you want to hear. If you like I can make

Unknown Speaker 1:20:50
them available in the archives there in the

Unknown Speaker 1:20:53
archives. Like But uh, yeah, I just listened to it

Unknown Speaker 1:21:05
I had some, this is what she did. She, she this is the information she she summarizing. We had a grant to do this project. And she really did a good job. She was just here last week, actually, I had lunch with her, Mary Davidson.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:34
And she would chip she's still finishing her PhD. I think she's been doing it since the time she was here pretty well. But she she wrote this kind of detailed analysis of every case that she made. And she did quite a lot of it was interesting. She was very she really enjoyed Charlie Horrell. I'm sure she is she commented on that. And she said she got to. And she said that she thought those were the best one. I only I haven't really listened to them yet. I'm trying to certainly do this as I as I get to the period, which I'm writing. Believe it or not, and I'm actually not here yet. Chapter on that right now. So I just listened. Tom Crapo. Did you go to that? But that was before he'd actually started writing the book. And I think that a lot of the information he subsequently got some of the information he had at that point wasn't quite, quite accurate. Jean Berman has also done a lot of work. I have I have something on hers on Murayama, which is kind of interesting.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:09
I found her very interesting.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:11
She spoke to a person leaving this project

Unknown Speaker 1:23:16
going down where she she's agreed to look over the manuscript and make suggestions.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:24
Perfect that really impresses me about what you're doing. You've decided on your own that's exactly what the event is. About how many meetings we went through very David Carlo, what we should be doing, what the purpose of the research are because as a textbook

Unknown Speaker 1:23:51
if it's done well, it could still be a textbook for the schools and they can still be used that way and that's certainly a possible a possible market for my my approach is I come from a publishing background. So I I have some idea of how books are put together. I think I'm very lucky to have come in on this project at a point when people are so tired that they don't want to play I noticed the root Sandwell has been involved. I saw some Tom Wright showed me a letter. And I think she was she got involved just at the wrong time. People were still arguing about this or whatever people were arguing. So that's the AP. But if you want to listen to it, I can make you a copy or I've actually made copies of a few things for people because they said a lot of never heard that tape. Correct. Oh, well, I can make you a tape. Copy that kind of interesting. It doesn't take very long you just put it on one of those machines with two tapes. And we are going to have a whole chapter on

Unknown Speaker 1:25:05
because the story was this will use come every Sunday for lunch and after emptied cinema little city room and had a chair specially No problemo so get get out of it. Because it can take a long time he will get out so fast. A little girl shaking in the house. And she looked at it and she said, did God make you and he said yes. And she said, Well why didn't he put some of that time she got here on public because he was just embarrassing. She said

Unknown Speaker 1:25:48
she said What's it for? This time we got a hold on hush you're out but he really wanted the right kind

Unknown Speaker 1:26:04
of children's party when I was about 20 children table and under every plate with $1 Bill early 30s A huge lunch

Unknown Speaker 1:26:28
it is big studio

Unknown Speaker 1:26:35
he was worried

Unknown Speaker 1:26:37
why do you think he never got

Unknown Speaker 1:26:40
what's wrong? I'm starting to remember this. He had a brother, Henry. Henry and Henry would have an 18 inch waist. A woman a mother I just fell in love with his brother Mallya. So he came over here

Unknown Speaker 1:27:02
buddy come from No, I don't

Unknown Speaker 1:27:10
come from the sun.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:14
Those days nobody has any money. He she was just a few people. We started this rich beginning. Nobody else

Unknown Speaker 1:27:26
will comparatively been very rich.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:27
He built his house for $2,000 I don't know how many bedrooms were about 17 and 20 bedrooms. Quite a mansion generally because you can't compare it to the days. Well,

Unknown Speaker 1:27:40
so did you did you go to any of those legendary Fraser weather before your turn? Yes.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:48
My mother and dad went to what they call a mix party and they go stuffing or brass or whatever. And the girls Oh more than a couple came out from England you were asking about health minister Mr. Speaker and they were saying that the Stevens voting house they said the wrong problems are offering so grandfather said well why don't you sell that quote and my dog doesn't they have a farm and you can go down and stay with them and help me so they did they shaved for about three years. So that was sort of a help with your mom and dad had when these people were dragged out of the room and board and but anyway, they they were invited to a dinner party bus to books and I got into long tails or whatever they weren't evening dresses and went up on their wagon. I guess they only had a buggy of them so I took other people with them so inanimate was supposed to this wonderful dinner and after dinner I used to go to the drawing room and we serve coffee used to say to stick in a bit of sherry whatever but he then he then he had boys in uniform and it was every time we went he had the awkward voice but they didn't have they didn't wear uniform he taught them how to cook you certainly know how to cook themselves I mean I have a lot of problem because here's how they even problem you know I don't always get the giggles of everything else. All night we arrived on oh it was in June I noticed my cousin was growing myself. And anyway he met us at the door and he told us he had upper and loads of vegetables that I like you to come down and see my boss and he said I got big red radishes carry around was about to start us you know I never didn't see as God we I think I stood on the running literally Formula cars but he did to see the mind the older sisters much better but I got to open up pride was another one that gig but he didn't seem to mind at all he was very good that he had a good sense of humor. I think he

Unknown Speaker 1:30:28
did he laugh a lot. And so when

Unknown Speaker 1:30:33
you say laugh at themselves?

Unknown Speaker 1:30:34
No, just laugh period?

Unknown Speaker 1:30:36
Yes, I think so. He was

Unknown Speaker 1:30:40
happy. He seemed like a happy person.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:43
I think showing George's males Yes. And he enjoyed the farm and all the boys that he was very very good to them in them all lambda or something as happy as he could be really.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:01
But for many people, did he have it as party?

Unknown Speaker 1:31:04
Well, I think in the old days you'd have 30 or 40.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:13
Cars because you're Why would

Unknown Speaker 1:31:15
you listen to the goody goody goody goody said that his parties were very much exaggerated. And he said they were never when he was there. There were never more than I think he said about eight eight guests at a ton of

Unknown Speaker 1:31:32
focus Sydney that there was never any day before goodie there was a business calm. They did those were the days where me I don't think goody goody ever wore uniform. No, I don't know but I don't think he would anyway. No, it didn't

Unknown Speaker 1:31:54
matter the days he when he first came out today the parties the public good each day there was maybe 10 or 12. To when he had Mr. Palmer the boys a little differently

Unknown Speaker 1:32:21
in terms of the people at your at Harbor house, on your tape, you mentioned you mentioned Mr. Ross. Remember Mr. Rowe?

Unknown Speaker 1:32:31
He was very nice. Gentleman you might say Hong Kong slave and retired. He would come home house for the winter. Summer okay good game of golf and billiards.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:47
We spent the whole winter here

Unknown Speaker 1:32:51
and so he was retired

Unknown Speaker 1:32:55
for six years

Unknown Speaker 1:32:59
and it might have

Unknown Speaker 1:33:01
been a little younger Were there

Unknown Speaker 1:33:02
many people who lived full time

Unknown Speaker 1:33:05
for quite a few winters very heavy heavy sail from head to sail remain because all the fairy shows

Unknown Speaker 1:33:15
what I was thinking of this Mr. roffe he stayed the whole winter

Unknown Speaker 1:33:19
oh yes yeah, we do we did kind of thing and people are teachers and then we used to get the telephone electric light boys as they call it from when I'm home.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:36
So we're saying Chris Lee there but about the same time as Mr. Oh

Unknown Speaker 1:33:41
no different in Iran was a

Unknown Speaker 1:33:49
static problem of a tailor very sharp wish that way but it was really they got along fine because they both played golf.

Unknown Speaker 1:34:02
Dan was was supposed to take people fishing and

Unknown Speaker 1:34:10
catch. Salmon Didn't Mr. Young