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History of the CN Railway and Steamships

Ken McKenzie

Accession Number Interviewer Ken McKenzie
Date 1994 Location
Media tape Audio CD mp3 √
ID 122 Duration 47 min.




Unknown Speaker 0:02
This congregation, so many axiom personnel here. What I want to do, however, is give a very brief discussion of the history of CN more for its corporate beginnings, and its corporate existence than any one specific area. Cn hasn't been as well dealt with as one of the other railroads that operates in Canada, we can argue with a great deal of justification that Siemens history is actually more important, and that the Canadian Pacific is longer, and it gets more parts of the country. And it is still running to more parts of the country. So the history of Canadian National revolutions a critical part of the history of Canada. Then in no aspect, that the the topic was, as a topic was given and drifted is a very apt one. See, and of course, existed then. And now we're looking at the process of no other way of demolishing a company, or to sell it to private enterprise or continue under public enterprise, but in a vastly different form. So it's very appropriate to look at it. And one of the important things to do when we consider what is going to happen to the entity novice Canadian National, is to realize where it comes from, where it came from. Canadian National Railways started in 1836, as a small, really regional rally, if you like shortline, in the new terminology, south of Montreal running connecting St. Lawrence River to the to the slow connect, or Champlain or Lake Champlain and the river, running down into the states that operated quite successfully, with some indication that perhaps it was one of the first railroads in the world to carry soldiers to war, during the 1837 38 rebellions and Afghanistan or Upper and Lower Canada. That's beside the point. If we're successful, and by the 1840s, you will we find that the, that the railway mania if you like, but it's spread throughout Britain and Europe, is spreading to Canada, of course, in central Canada, mostly. And also in coal mines. I passed out a little one my wife passed out a brochure or photocopy to take a look at. And it's one of the reasons that I said why we should really know the history of the railroad in Canada. Because we can always trust the politicians on the younger Rooney, they're easily been taking his lesson from amendment. But now, Sir Alan McNab, who was governor, Upper Canada, who said quite honestly, in the 1840s, in railways for his politics, not much has changed since then. And so again, as I said, we have to know where the real weight is coming from, when you start to think and decide how it's to be, to be handled in the future. When I'm discussing historical topics, I always like to bring in the fact that if you don't look at the current situation, if you don't make the history relevant to the current, and we're going to lose the history. It's a tenuous hold that we have and ageing society to moment. Historical bodies are not very well funded, we have to find we have to fight for whatever money we can get. And so it's very important that we that we look at it in that regard. The relevance now, in fact, the relevance of history was one of the reasons I was able to sell the history project that I'll talk about a little bit later on to management of CN, because the marketing department stuff, they could make something out of it. We've covered the cartoon and the background in a national revenues. And really, we have two backgrounds. Because first of all, we were a series of railroads that were built across the country. Champions Awards, the first one I mentioned, and that led to another cold, the Atlantic and St. Lawrence at large and Atlantic, which connected Montreal to the coast of Portland, Maine. It became the first operating part or soon became the Grand Trunk Railway. Bill Tillman air showed me his Grand Trunk time earlier, during this day, Grand Trunk Railway became the first of the large and major systems to form trading national, incorporated in 1855. took over the railway that I mentioned here, Danny Lawrence in 1856, which gave it an instant track for shape, but it's still operated by 1859 in Montreal was connected with Toronto by training. This is a truck that had a rival at that time, it was called The Big Western indigeneity to the Great Western amalgamated with the Grand Trunk, and it became part of the Grand Trunk Corporation, Grand Trunk company of Canada. Sorry, it's important it wasn't. CNN probably started in 1884, or the philosophy behind the formation Have a public owned real Canadian ad for Canadian Pacific, for one of those remarkable periods in its existence, of course went to the government for some more money. Though it was passed by the Senate or rarely, by Canada, the house of parliament in 1884 was alone bill for the Canadian Pacific. But in reaction to the amalgamation of the Grand Trunk and the Great Western, which took them both to Southwestern Ontario, there was a specific clause in that bill, banning the amalgamation of a Canadian Pacific Railway with the Grand Trunk. Even in 1884, Canadians were saying amalgamation is something we have to be careful about. So if you want to say when they thought philosophy or the fox, formation of cm started 1884 is a good time to look at because it's imperfect. Man Of course, 1880s is theory of the CPR and what more can I say about it? Canadians know enough about the CPR after the completion of the CPR, and then about eight from about 8096 on on Liberal government under Laurier. That was seem to be the next century, this century. There seem to be ballots. And there was result is that there was another or third really rule. And this was the important one a really important one as far as CM is concerned. The first real big boom, of course, is that Trump second was CPR. The third one came at the turn of the century, when Canada started to build not one but two other transcontinental railroads. There are many reasons for this, of course, some people thought they could make money at it. Other subjects could make political capital out of out of the additional railroads. It's interesting to note that as these two other realms were being built, somebody has started to build a third extra continental of transcontinental railroad. The Americans, of course, still don't have a true transcontinental railroad. The issue in 1897, then became one or further to be public enterprise private enterprise that existed, particularly in Eastern Canada public enterprise railway Intercolonial Railway, also known as Canadian government rule. It's not too well known, but the BNA act did in fact call for the building of the Intercolonial Railway. It's one of the clauses of the Act in 1867. It was eventually built across from Halifax, through the Maritimes to Montreal, completed in 1876. And it ranked on the generic name of the Canadian Government Railways. That wasn't the legal name. But it linked more than a deployment was always in Brunswick and Nova Scotia. By 1897, the famous quotation from from one of the government one of the Liberal government was the Intercolonial Railway was crypt, Kevin unconfined, it stopped at the southern Quebec city wanted to expand and if you wanted to make money, which it had never really done, and had to go prepared for the worst. The discussion then became whether or not the next major transplant level would be the Intercolonial Railway extending westward from Quebec City, or whether it should be built a new and for every liberal that I can find who was pro public railway. We find as many conservatives of the era also in favor of a public railway was a very contentious issue. And it was an issue that was fought over the next five years and Canadian boardrooms, in the House of Commons. And amongst politicians. Laurie, as I said, was the Prime Minister and eventually the, the private enterprise role or route was one project resulted in two railroads converge. Regrettably, country might have supported one new transcontinental railway, but instead it approved to one was Canadian northern system, which, if anywhere, we can be called a western Canada really except them. And the other courses have Grand Trunk whatever. But I'm trying to be offered the opportunity to build a CPR 30 years before and at the time. And this time, we realized the mistake of their ways and built started to build their own. They didn't northern was built under the terms of the North Pacific. They didn't order material and such things. That trucks extension was built as a grant from the support then between 1903 and World War One. One of the major problems was a section that became part of the Grand Trunk or was supposed to become part of the Grand Trunk and that was the national transcontinental railroad, which built eSports from Winnipeg, across the northern part of Ontario and Quebec, and having started to Moncton, New Brunswick. That was the most truly political of all Americans. And this is at a time when many Quebec residents francophones across the border to work in Maine and places like that. Laurier factors if they could industrialize the north central part of the province that would lower these people back. So Laurie was the one that had this section on the really built the NASA transcript and it was supposed to have been released to the Grand Trunk Pacific when they when it was completed, that advantageous rates. But by the time the National Transplant and as always competing World War One come along, and design Trans Pacific was virtually bankrupt.

Unknown Speaker 10:29
By the time of World War One, however, both new transcontinental railways have been built. And the last spikes that each of them was was were sunk in various places in Canada, Canada, then history transplant, not a roller coaster. It was of course too much. And as part of the discussion, as at the turn of the century, when I was talking about the deliberation over public versus private, there was a very careful study taken on rate regulation on Canadian railroads, at the end of which the commissioner in charge of the whole thing said that, and this is a quotation, he said, We're combination is possible, competition is impossible, and brought about the whole issue of regulation of railroads versus competition. And as you will see, this is complete relevance now, as we start to discuss the fate of natural oils. This commission are announcing today, where you have the possibility of combinations existed, competition became largely illusory. World War One, for many reasons, brought about the downfall of the major portions of the Grand Trunk located in Northern Railway systems. And during the war, when revenues are critical to take material to the courts, it was obvious that the government could not let were always lapse, or look to the gaps in the operation of it, in return, to take troops and material imports. So then the discussion then became what was happening to the National Transplant Council containing there were considerable debates in Parliament. And as I said before, as many debates on one side of the house are debaters as on the other were in favor of public ownership. The issue had to be decided, eventually by the union government of the world record, or do something conservative. Borden has been in favor of public ownership of railways, and in fact of an entire transportation system, including the Great Lakes and steamships on the legs from as far back as 1902. Arguably the last elections and overall for marginal rate over the issue of public ownership of transportation systems. In focusing is this is one of the first times and other times in Canadian history that we have a politician advocating a complete and total transportation network is also advocating under public ownership. Support for for different grant trunk, operated under different mentalities, Grant trunk operated under the Shuar free enterprise capitalist scheme traveled with it, of course, was that its shareholders were by and large in Britain, almost entirely Europe, very few in Canada, they tended to operate on the for the bottom line, not very successful, but that's another story. Canadian government railway was public enterprise railway. And as such, was looked at, very skillfully, by a large number of Canadians and particularly the further west you got, people didn't particularly like the idea of public ownership as represented by the Canadian government. That was the example they had before them and they were discussing the third third wheel wheel courses paid in northern system, which was quite a system. It was one of the few that built into a territory for where there was already traffic at Pacific speculative there's no doubt about it's one of the reasons they got so much money made in northern tended to build into Virgil's already proven wheat fields, timber, whatever. The built in patches, gradually are linked up to very serious but they usually always have cargo and freight. They also built a railway no better than was required for the existing freight at the time anticipating in the future that they would improve the facilities as their as their home went up. And as I said before, they didn't northern railways wanted to be truly without it as the water was rolling. Anybody would dopes This is 30 of the people to vote in northern and many use do. They thought that they were just building in this new system became pacifically. So dependent upon the moment to take a look at the records that exist an awful lot. I'll discuss that a little later. And you realize that they were building it to operate as a railway. They not only built the railway to build propels steam, or they ran steamships and the Great Lakes, and they also ran to crack steamers on the North Atlantic, which further time was the fastest on the route, including the CPR emphasis. These days with a group of three different systems brought together on the board under Gordon's government, the union government, as a private tour as a public enterprise system, to run in competition. That had been decided not to take the regulations and govern the update, particularly the rates charged by realtors, there had to be competition by rail.

Unknown Speaker 15:51
Actually came together over the period 1918 223. Largely because the Canadian government roles personnel couldn't really be trusted. And in the eyes of Parliament, management of the slowly amalgamating system was turned over to the Canadian northern management. Run Trump, which was the senior of the railways resisted right to the bitter end being taken over by the Canadian government, they had also gone close to bankruptcy because of the rapid rapid extension they resisted as long as they could and part of this resistance included not allowing any other seat other middle and senior management participate with the government in bringing the rooms together and amalgamated. The result is the Grand Trunk for many years with senior management of the of the solid. Among the main roads. This was the cause of problem after 1923 When the rooms were one, there was a considerable imbalance in modern personnel there. And the treatment materials, as I said, run on a very different risks. The data Norton was hands on, Trump was hands off as far as the new management control system.

Unknown Speaker 17:12
So by 1923, trading national was operating as a legal entity and required the the the end of the board of this other areas and amalgamated and then October I can try to to the old board of the Canadian northern Canadian National Meeting definitely always ended. And the new board came in was certainly something as the second president of the Canadian National first president was in Canadian order. Something took over on October 9, and tried to do and he ran the other 11 years. In that time, at National Railways came together, personnel were amalgamated many of the rollingstock problems were dealt with. There was incompatibility of course, not much engagement, enrolling staff or quality rolling stuff for students with construction. When I think 2620 28 In Canada was really booming at Apple really started to make a focus not just on the on the on operating profits, but paying off on the loans and bonds that went into building the road. One of the major differences between trading natural in fact any railway Canada and we're always operating in the United States is the railways in the United States were allowed to catharsis of bankruptcy, which was stopped to the equity of original shareable shareholders were lost and tired. Of course, a real religion still existed, and could be bought out for the song and kept going and man until next bankruptcy. After that happens to the National Real. One of the major problems facing facing it to the state is the debt leftover from the honoring of that debt by successive governments. Violin, the depression taking us over was running away to being a viable commercial entity. The Depression pretty well did that and, and we had to wait for World War Two. And as they see World War Two, some kidnapper will also CPR came into the room and proved the worst in the country. The interesting feature, of course, is predicted this time of the year. As we look on remember the services of personnel who are overseas is that Canada we seem to have been prepared for World War Two, our navy or Air Force, actually not so much the bombing regime to be built. But one of the cogent arguments Acadians offered, some say there was a rationalization, but it was true nevertheless that the major force the Canada providing for the defense of the Commonwealth and we have to look at it in the Commonwealth. The major influence For that, in Canada for the transcontinental railroad, when you look at the record of the railroads during World War Two, in transporting freight cargo, raw materials, finished goods and services to Halifax, it's important to note, the 14 main Anglos. There was the form of enormous and this is, as I said, a mystery. The remembrance is well worth to remember that. That noble one, many 1000s of men in this case, and overseas, Israeli troops cooperate rarely. And World War Two, there were 1000s of volunteers from the rail resort overseas, much enough to operate or operate railroads there because it wasn't required as much in World War Two. But the important thing is, and I can't let this occasion to by saying one of the most important functions operative art done in Canada during World War Two was the provisions of the supplies and the material required in Europe. And that is why so many cm personnel were not even allowed, given the effect, they had volunteered to go overseas, because their job was seen to be critically important in Canada. The interesting thing here, of course, too, is that this meant for the first time that many women were employed by the rails all the way up to but not including running mainline locomotives. From the other other job, they were able to carry out free men to go to go overseas. But there's many partners next to me arguments that many, many insisted upon and made winner ships and ship them overseas. That was excellent. I said those who actually went overseas. Again, during the war is friends with the other parts of many national parks that we're now starting to cut off, came into the room, because every single part of the rural life, from east to west was used to carry troops and ministers to the ports, the only time the interpreting national system has been used to its full advantage is the basic way in which the natural world came together, and foreign service that it provided and carrying goods and personnel across country. After the war was over, it was time for retrenchment. And in fact, many of the people who stood up I suppose were employed in the real world, and we'll see the numbers dropped drastically from about 120,000. At the height of the stimulus, through the visualization of the 1950s, through the enormous changes affected by Donald Gordon, all the way down to the present state of the real world. And I don't see and in 1981, there were some days I was in personnel. See, and 10 years later, they were down to about 28 personnel. And you'll often see the statistics, getting the the amount of traffic carried in the in the third of their lives. And these folks are trying to West compared to traffic carried in two thirds of the lines from Toronto. The question then becomes, how do we look at the railway data method. And this was ended up in being the last of the projects that I was able to carry out with CNN and CNBC COVID projects, which ended up in the production of The People's national roads. There are three reasons that I gave to senior management to gain approval for the whole project, I won't go into the project itself. The reasons were, first of all, there's so very few books on trading, Canadian natural history. But another one was needed in the students points, every limitations and effects. Second reason was that many of the people coming into Canadian nationals. And this is about 85 to 86. I had no idea whatsoever about the background of the company. They didn't know how it originated. They didn't know history. They didn't know the heritage that we're taking over from some people because we wanted to educate them. And we also wanted some way of reading the Constitution and that their work was appreciate. The third reason and this reason, of course, is looming much more significant. Now that we start to ponder the fate for example, the fact that we wanted our political masters to have some idea as to the reasons behind the formation of cm. Far too often. We see it announced National Railways was simply a wartime requirement existences to bring together backup rules. Technically, the railroads weren't bankrupt. The roads were heading towards bankruptcy, we could have come out of it. Cn was brought together as the combination of political thought held by a significant part of the country. For two decades before it came together. It was not not political expediency about any national roads together. It was philosophies of time, that the candidate of keeping a candidate should keep control of the roadway network. Monitor should be able to provide a standard and effective and credible option to the private enterprise. That is where we stand at the moment. We're at national Pacific. I've been discussing signs and amalgamating in the east. He's been from Winnipeg, Alabama, where the plans fell through and worked at Pacific road. And it's now possible to borrow maybe Mexico. It's one of the reasons I suppose that it's going to take a long time for this to be decided. Heaven knows how it works. But until they do, we hope and those of us who believe in the rails and have the rails, we hope that our politicians and those who decide to do so was a complete and final and total understanding of the philosophy behind the formation between NASA and the first part of what I want to say. The other part, of course, is that I see an archivist responsible for seeing records. The records are readily accessible to anybody who wishes to conduct research, and they're located at the National Archives and follow up. They've been transferred there and periodically over the years for 30 years.

Unknown Speaker 27:00
National Archives, of course, as I said earlier, is suffering severe cutbacks, and doesn't have the personnel that can give us the assistance they used to be able to, at the National Archives to kind of contain all cn historical records that never exists. From the beginning, it can take up to about the middle 1960s process is ongoing and records are serving customers regularly from Montreal, Toronto. And these aren't just paper records, the glass plate negatives, drawing 250,000 engineering drawings, I still don't know how to translate that London papers are official papers. It's an enormous but it ends up there 13 illogical research goes there are virtually no assistance unless you happen to work for the normal. We found a group of records they're almost the same as the Intercolonial Railway and basketball van trunk made in Oregon personnel records simply personnel records simply don't exist.

Unknown Speaker 28:06
And the other thing that that is lacking are the records, personnel records with individual stations and agencies across the country.

Unknown Speaker 28:19
If you're looking at the corporate history, if you're looking at the financial history, and even down to the economic history of the railway records and so for those who are interested in trying to guide the destiny of the NASA more or more mundane, like running water realms records if you know how to handle using more people normal natural always more realistic. And the fate of the relay will be will be dealt with in a comprehension.

Unknown Speaker 29:09
Say where the three major trends

Unknown Speaker 29:14
the problem was too close to each other in many carats. The whole Grand Trunk Pacific ran from from the Dover border up to Prince George northern the Fraser Valley until you was really Northern and further further north across the place than any of the other railroads. That's one of the reasons they didn't order. So I'm talking to westerners because they opened up the real part of the prairies where it was important for agriculture was important and possible. If you look at it now, and one of the reasons that the Canadian Pacific runs into trouble in the Pacific digital the American border perhaps the strategic reasons They don't want to screw, the better architectural parts of the Grand Trunk exists existed almost entirely in southeastern Ontario, and southwestern Ontario and then to Montreal, Quebec. The American lines, subsidiaries or branches transfers, Pacific and central protect from the Great Lakes region. And collections of American Government Railways worthy, worthy real release on the Maritimes. And there were small lines of length Quebec City with London, St. John and Halifax and they did it all over the place there rather than Cape Breton. They also brought in Rails and one of the sharp lines in Pacifica seven

Unknown Speaker 30:59
became part and metaphor the night came natural perfect system was fitted right in the overall system to navigate. But remember, if you've never been, there isn't a really is no railway in Newfoundland. Next door really in Nova Scotia, and the road was disappearing, the very real chance to but in the next 18 months, the only railway line operating railway line in Canada, or east of Montreal, is a very natural mainline from Montreal and Halifax

Unknown Speaker 31:36
unless three Pacific already has permission to throw down the line that's a very clean natural line started rotating Northern Railway and it couldn't finish it. It wasn't finished until the middle 90s. Green

Unknown Speaker 32:05
areas of the railway come back off and say whatever you decide, because they don't look at it as generating revenue, they get to return and it's farmers now we're fighting over whether or not it's a very small group of farmers

Unknown Speaker 32:26
favorite the lifesaver to CNN is the liberty to contract. They did that in passenger service. But it doesn't make much sense. And I suspect that line isn't we just can't build it with obviously, we're rolling stuff for the for the mainline rail travel, but it's too heavy for the for the whoever that goes there. And the underwriter unless there's a real initiative from the farmers subscribers I don't think.

Unknown Speaker 33:20
Dancer, imagine that. There's all sorts of fails, it fails. And they get permission. And it takes a long process but the first thing you do when they get permission to do abandoned.

Unknown Speaker 33:49
Of everything the unions are involved and the short line railroads that are successful. And there's a lot more shortline railroads in the States and I don't know how they're operating in Canada that are successful because we have no unions. They they operate corporate taxability perhaps the biggest thing anybody could do to be honest, on the line, including the locomotive engineer. The other thing, of course, is wages, wages and hours. But the biggest thing is flexibility. And the surplus operating in Canada. I think it's just making success. And the fact that is a five deprive some of the areas in the Maritimes that the other railroads are wanting to sell. So they're trying to extend on the interior and with the government is a very good sparkline possibility there. But researchers could make a lot of money that the government has just passed a law which says that the labor agreements inherent And then we'll we'll go with it when it's sold, which negates the whole idea of a circle and operation.

Unknown Speaker 35:10
To make a comeback since it's not true

Unknown Speaker 35:15
I don't think not. The traders aren't using it the enormous top of the Golden Triangle, Ottawa to Quebec City to Windsor. And there's been before I got to the end, and it almost went to a talk of fast passenger travel. And his party died out. I haven't heard anything about it. Last few few years, it sent up some of the statesmen have been running the European trains, running trials, and they've sent various of them up to Canada. But I just don't see it happening. Because it doesn't matter. The entire right away would have to be rebuilt. And it's not just that it's not a good rhetoric. It's the third and the four tracks, because both cncp are double track than that in that area. But there's so many great companies, and they'd have to deal with the votes. And the people just don't use it. Whenever I go back east, I used to train as much as I can from Montreal to Toronto, you just don't see people a large part of it isn't it's not made attractive. And it's almost as expensive now. Until there's a lot more people in the country, I just don't see

Unknown Speaker 36:21
this tonight.

Unknown Speaker 36:23
And it does still exist. And it seems to be getting more involved now and International Affairs is the investment arm?

Unknown Speaker 36:38

Unknown Speaker 36:44
It's an area where extented talent has been enormous expertise and running roads. And there's still places in the world that need this expertise. And we don't have much to offer the rest Environment Team and so we're always looking into expanding the use of our technology overseas. Yes, there's that you watched that vector? Because that's the two important products of green coal or coal. Yes, it is. As you see the extensive amount of controversy realized that the coal, the coal troubles have been circumvented. We work with something called class COVID.

Unknown Speaker 37:35
Those groups

Unknown Speaker 37:44
Yes, they did pretty well. And the and in the earlier part of my talk, I mentioned how forward this idea of being for a national transportation system, not just a real and I don't know how many of you here have ever heard of the Canadian government. But this was the merchant arena, National Railways and I'm working on something called the People's railway and I'm calling my book that people ships 63 sets of results and I've read at the end of World War One and we're going to be operated entirely the same way. So we are live a public lecture and they were run by by an arm of Canadian national and they also ran more ferries carpets looks like a great place, then in northern tried to freighters and sold them during the war. And creating last will never really get back up and running. But the right characters and in fact, the end marine which is BC Ferries counterpart on the East Coast, was a sea and operations as well and is now a totally autonomous Corporation series

Unknown Speaker 39:07
other books and textbooks so follow the old principles and purpose. Now, hey, Henry was Henry George, and where they were the three that were built about the 1930s incidentally had stellar careers in the Royal Canadian Navy during World War Two. In fact, were probably the most successful warships upwards to Canada will give you units such as the other one for last year. We didn't operate as many but there's warnings and just those the ones you know, it was Chris Johnson.

Unknown Speaker 39:45
And they've taken over and took them over. They had taken over a company called the grant

Unknown Speaker 39:54
started in 2010 with a man who attended But it wasn't one of the problems or something extravagant. And as it started, it says in three ways, lots of details. And those eventually brought about his downfall.

Unknown Speaker 40:25
The benefits of land grabs and so forth in exchange for building the trails. Great. Has there been any concerted effort made to get any of them back in the mindset?

Unknown Speaker 40:39
This is a highly interesting point. And it's a font that I've tried to make the natives to international and the government and it's larger Canadian National, because because it seems that we're more gripping our stands more effective, they have come back to the government said, we leased your land to you or sold to you. These lands are no longer used for urban purposes and revert to the original owners. I think it's a very valid point to be made here. They will take it to the desk death knell perhaps remarks on religion is the sort of thing. And it was open and anonymous among the national that they've turned back to the crowd to predict the genetic groups. I have heard very little comment outside of the native groups that I work with. Find people people will argue that, you know, the enormous amounts of money that was given to ecstasy, that that kind of combat, that why we should not walk onto the tracks.

Unknown Speaker 41:54
The person who granted land in the first place, ranch, in the earliest days tended to get money rather than land, and they would get there. And this is part of the whole process because the landowners were perfectly willing to sell land at inflated rates for Grand Trunk that would get the money from public first CPR to when the kid in northern was was starting up, that money dried up. So that's in the Landgraf aspect became much more important and much more necessary. And so that so they were granted other federally other kinds of paid and northern and hence paid and so it was gradual, it was done by provinces. So differential math. And one of the interesting features is that didn't learn Pacific which was the branch that that was built. In BC, the BC government was adamant that I mentioned Colonel McNab or his politics, or religious my politics. He was there, the way they were able to get money to have the railway and I forget the lengths that somebody would put the Miles was the subject for the good of the country. And it was specifically the good of the country not to go to the front again in North Pacific has been built in British Columbia, the British Columbia government smart they have said, we will provide you money if it lands on the understanding that nothing in your contract nothing in your, in your charter, anything says that you earlier which leads to the fact that lasted until 1968 in Oregon started to require enormous amounts of funding. Funding could only come from the federal government. And so that was why Turkey started. So the problem is is always starting in 2010 Solve this pitfall and started to say let's protect our own property here. If we get the property we expected it to be run under our rules of BC wanted to do with this of course, to regulate rates and this comes down to the regulations

Unknown Speaker 43:59
looking at the near future once the numbers on article in the paper, they're talking about saying that the main lines were confirmed possibly we're looking at in about a year and a half.

Unknown Speaker 44:19
abandon its lines is to Sherbrooke, Quebec, which means they don't have any left cn cn has been quietly selling off as many as it can or offering for sale. It's circling potential branches in particular Nova Scotia. The cn has improved its mainline for Montreal, Halifax. I don't know if any of you have seen the real traffic in East Central is a double stack trains, two containers one on top of the other. The problem, main problem, of course is clearance bridges and tunnels, things like that. I have improved the Atlantic Coast brackets. So that now can take double stack, which is something that the government thought for for a long time. And it's the only thing that will make the port of Halifax viable. Whether or not port of Halifax is viable once you start to get Baltimore, Portland, Maine places like that up and running is requestable. So your point is to the branch lines and the shorter lines also hold to the to the mainline in America. That's one of the reasons that maritimers are currently very much against the sale of CNN to the sale or the moderation between

Unknown Speaker 45:42
rest of

Unknown Speaker 45:51
the members and guests thank you for your very

Unknown Speaker 45:57
special presentation

Unknown Speaker 46:07
or perhaps you can tell when you're all involved in a portfolio