13DoreenMorrisBettyStone.mp3

Usha Rautenbach

unknown

Transcription by Usha Rautenbach:

Today we have the story of two people born on Salt Spring. Our interviewer is Mrs. Dorothy Wrotonowski, née McMillan, born in Duncan in 1907. Dorothy wrote for the Colonist for over a quarter of a century. Today she is interviewing Doreen Morris, née Crofton, the granddaughter of Reverend E. Wilson, and daughter of Mr. Fred Crofton, who was the original owner of Harbour House Hotel. With us also, we have Mrs. Betty Stone, née Kingsbury, who was born in 1912, on the Old Divide. Would you like to begin the interview, Dorothy?

DW: Yes. Betty Stone, when did your parents come to the island?

BS: Dad came out from Ireland in, I think it was 1903, via Australia, with a pal, Hugh Green, who also settled on the island, near Fulford. Daddy bought up on the Old Divide and he was going to go in for chicken farming, although he didn’t know anything about it, and mother followed him out the following year, and they were married down in the church at Fulford, and I understand they were the first couple married in that church.

DW: Was that St. Mary’s?

BS: Yes. And Mother came out from Dublin; she was a city girl, and had never done anything, and she found it terribly lonely up where they were, they didn’t see people for two or three weeks at a time, and the chicken ranching didn’t amount to anything. So before the war Dad was postmaster down at Ganges, for Mrs. Mouat, who was known as Granny Mouat in those days, and we lived where the Hastings are now (2008 Hastings House), and were next door neighbours to the Croftons, so I sort of grew up with them. And then when war broke out, Daddy joined up and we left for Victoria, and then returned 11 years afterwards.

DW: And you were born, weren’t you, Doreen, here?

Doreen(C)M: I was born at Harbour House.

DW: Which was a landmark, and still is.

Doreen(C)M: Which was a farmhouse at the time, in 1911.

DW: Was it run as a farm?

Doreen(C)M: It was a farm, ‘til 1916.

DW: And that’s when your mother -?

Doreen(C)M: My mother and my uncle Norman Wilson went into partnership, for a short time.

DW: That was when your father was overseas?

Doreen(C)M: He was overseas, yes.

DW: That was Mr Fred Crofton, wasn’t it.

Doreen(C)M: It was Fred Crofton, yes.

DW: And they started by tents, wasn’t it?

Doreen(C)M: It was tents, and candlelight, no electricty. I think the family, we all did the cooking to start with, ‘til our faithful Billy Eng came, 40 years ago or so.

DW: Yes, well, it was actually, wasn’t it, that your mother felt that friends of hers in Vancouver must be lonely with their husbands overseas and asked them to come for -?

Doreen(C)M: Yes, well, it just grew, by, you know, knowing many people who want it. When you think of it, it was $14 a week or something like that. Some of it was even cheaper than that, you know, to stay for weeks on end.

DW: You’ve always lived on the island, haven’t you.

Doreen(C)M: Yes.

DW: So you’ve seen tremendous changes that have come. Some good, some bad, no doubt.

Doreen(C)M: Well I certainly have. Some are sad to see, the changes, and others I think is all to the good, when you think.

DW: As a small child what are your memories of the island?

Doreen(C)M: None of us had very much money. No. It was all like it was, I think, for anybody in those days, don’t you think. So if anybody gave us five cents we thooght we had a million dollars! Which I remember very kind people giving to us.

DW: Not only that, your fun would be made by yourselves, too.

Doreen(C)M: Oh yes, yes. And my brothers went over digging potatoes on Prevost Island, when they were 12 and 14, when Dad was overseas, just to make money, and we had a, this was, you know, during the war when Mother ran the hotel herself.

DW: Your father must have been rather surprised to come back and find his family -

Doreen(C)M: Yes, a growing family. (laughter)

DW: How many were there in your family?

Doreen(C)M: There were seven. Six before he went, overseas. So she was left with little ones, but the older ones (Dermott and Desmond), and then you know, sister Diana, she was the older one.

DW: Your grandfather, Reverend E.F. Wilson, was he not the first resident Anglican clergyman?

Doreen(C)M: Well, there has been controversy over that, but I always believed he was the first resident.

DW: But he was here quite long time -

Doreen(C)M: - from1894 ‘til 1912, and then he went to Victoria. They actually came from Soult St. Marie to Victoria on the Burnside Road, and that was the second Barnsbury, because the old home in England was called Barnsbury. Then they called this home on the Burnside Road Barnsbury, and then when they moved to Salt Spring Island, in 1894, Barnsbury which is now the Salt Spring Island Golf Club.

DW: The big old house that was there burned down, didn’t it. But it was a golf club before that, just started, really.

Doreen(C)M: Well, quite few years before. I think Uncle Norman was dead when it burned down. It was Lois and Jack Hayes -

SW: And in your sort of earlier memories, you almost must have known  everybody on the island.

Doreen(C)M: Yes, we did. We can remember funny things about them all. Betty and I were reminiscing about old Mr  Mansell, who used to drive a horse towards Long Harbour. Oh, it was just when the first motor cars were coming in, there was a gas pump at the Trading Company. So he blithely would drive up and tie his rope around the gas pump while he went in to get his stores! (laughter) And then he always visited the pub. Dad started the beer parlour, in about 1923 or 1924 - it was after he came home, it took a while to get a licence.

B: The first car was Mr. Blackburn’s up in the Divide, and then Mr/ Bullock. Daddy was secretary to the agricultural show in those days, and he wrote a letter to Mr. Bullock asking Mr. Bullock if he’d drive his car because the horses were scared

Doreen(C)M: Wasn’t there another day when the ladies wanted to drive or ride on their horses or their pony carriages?

B: He was definitely restricted to when he could drive his car, or when he could bring it down

DW: Well, Blackburn, is that where Blackburn Lake is named after? And is now that museum?

B: - I was born at the Divide

DW: Well, there was no road as we know it now. It went over the Divide.

B: Over the Divide to Fulford.

DW: We’d go up the mountain and collect ten cents each and get a jug of wine -

Doreen(C)M: - and call it Mountain Dew

B: - or Nelson’s Blood, and all kinds of weird things, and we’;d all go up and get a gallon of this stuff for fifty cents and drive home quite happy.

DW: - Never ran into any

Of course I think that the old Fords that we drove couldn’t go fast enough, the roads were very windy, and you’d think you were going at a terrific rate, but it was just the bumps and the bangs that were going on.

And then you moved to Victoria and came back, didn’t you

B: - Well I left the island when I was two, and came back when I was 13.

DW: - And you were in charge in the telephone

BS: - Well, I went to work in the telephone office in about 1926 I guess. In those days it was open from 10 to 1, and 5 to 7 on Sunday, and it closed at 10.30 at night, on weekdays; until during the war, just after Japan entered the war, there was a deal of Jap balloon landing being sighted on Maxwell Mountain or Musgrave’s, I’m not sure which, it was one of the high mountains, and so I had to keep the office open all night (because we had blackouts in those days, you know, you had to check everybody with their blackouts) and that was the first time that the office (was open at night) - from then on it was open at night. In those days there were only 200 subscribers - there’d be 7 or 8 on a party line - and at night if there was anybody very ill, we had sort of a three-way plug, and we’d plug them in with the doctor, or if there was an emergency, they’d either wake Miss Aitkens, who was the Agent, or myself, and we’d go and open the office for any emergencies, which there were once in a while.

DW: - Well, there’d be no ambulance then, would there?

BS: - No, no. And if there was a fire you’d just phone up anybody that was around.

Doreen(C)M: - And the questions you used to get! We’d phone the telephone operator and say “Is the boat coming down the harbour? What time is the Mary coming in?” Or “What is the time?”, and we always very politely got this answer, you know, they’d give us the time. And if there was a fire “Where was the fire?”, and ‘Central would always tell us’.

BS: - And then somebody would phone and they’d want So and So, and we’d know that she was out playing Bridge or at tea, and say “Oh, well, try Mrs. So and So, she’s over there.”

DW: It was more of a friendly exchange than a telephone exchange!

DW: - It was certainly missed.

BS: It was a terrific deal on election night in the old days, because it was definitely Liberals and Conservatives, and the Croftons were the Conservatives, and the Mouats were the Liberals, you see. And every tme Uncle Fred would have a grandchild, there would be another Conservative  -

DM: No! A child first -

BS: A child first, yes -

DM: Because he’d phone Gilbert and say “I’ve got a Conservative vote.”

BS: - but that was before my time.

DM: And then as you say, it would be a grandchild.

DE: And would Mouat reciprocate?

DM: Oh yes, they were great pals, and took it all as -.

BS: And I geneally was working election night, and if the Conservatives were winning, Major Turner was a great Conservative, I’d get a little present from Turner’s Store, and if (the Liberals) were winning, I’d get a box of chocolates sent over from Mouat’s, so it was sort of up and down!

DW: As if you had anything to do with it, really.

BS: Oh, it was bedlam!

DM: - Fighting!

BS: When (St. Paul’s) church was burned down- it opposite Claire Butterfield’s, it was right on (Ganges) Hill. Ivan Mouat rushed down and woke me up and said the church was on fire, and I dashed down to the telephone office and phoned everybody round to go up. We all went up afterwards, and saw it.

DM: - Mr. Bullock’s house was burned, Harbour House, Barnsbury.

DW: He was quite a personality on the island for years.

BS: Oh, very much. He taught me how to drive. And he had a car, he was very large, I guess you’ve seen pictures of him, and the wheel of the car, when you got in it would go up, so he could get under it, and then it would come back into place. Oh, he was an amazing person. He taught me how to carve ham and chickens. He’d have these dinners and he’d ask different girls on the island to be hostess, and we’d have to know how to, you know, properly carve things. If you were asked to supper you wore a short dress, if you were asked to dinner you wore a long gown. And he had all these boys from the orphanage in Victoria.

DM: But also, a seven course dinner, and these cream sauces on  everything, and all the time he’d be talking about an 18 inch waist, and here he was feeding us up, we were almost groaning with food!

a long pair of earrings - kid gloves - sixteen inch heels

DW: Sixteen! You mean six.

BS: I mean six.

Doreen(C)M:And he did tell us even if we went to Ganges to meet the boat or anything, we should all wear high heels, and he liked a veil, and gloves, just to give a good appearance, that people would see.

He was a great one for gimmicks. Well, he wouldn’t buy one, he’d buy a dozen.

He was terribly generous, he’ gibe these things.

They say a lot of girls that used to come over here for holdiays, you could tell, they’d go back -

Doreen(C)M: With the ears pierced.

DW: Who pierced ears here on the island then?

Doreen(C)M: We all went to the doctor, but he would do it himself, if anyone would let him. He always gave you the little gold rings, the sleepers; that was the first thing he always gave to anybody that got their ears pierced.

BS: But the shoes were really quite something, he’d have all the sizes

DW: Was he on the shoes too?

BS: Oh yes, beautiful shoes, but they had this -

DW: - six inch heel.

BS: Yes.

DW: But you couldn’t wear those down to meet the boat, those were for - 

BS: Oh, you were supposed to wear them as much as you could.

I didn’t know you could!

Oh yes they were very good about it. (laughter)

There were some from Etons, you know, French kid

the long white ones, they’d cost a mint now

But he had a great big bureau

Well, it was numerous bedrooms

And all these drawers were all labelled

BS: And these boys were great for (music), they’d have saxophones and all different instruments in the kitchen, do you remember? We’d be having dinner, and he used to entertain Fraser Tolmie, and quite a lot of the well-known, and Lieutenant Governor Bruce, and there’d be this little silence during dinner and you’d hear this terrific saxaphone going in the background. The boys felt they’d cooked the dinner, and then they were having fun and games.

What about opportunity for them, though; it would be an education for them

Oh yes, and he was very good to them.

Well, the Log Cabin was started, he bought that for one of his boys who’d cook up there. He built the Log Cabin. Which is now the Ship’s Anchor.

Q.: Where did you first go to school?

We went to Miss Ashton, who was later Mrs. Oxenham,

- and she had a little school in Ganges

Yes, kindergarten - that’s the one I had the picture of, that I’m afraid I burnt, I had it put away for Miller and Toynbee, and it’s disappeared.

And then we all went to the public school. First, there was one where Mrs. Case Morris, where Gavin Mouat lived at one time, and then the next one was up where the Catholic school (sic - church) is.

Then we went to a chicken - that was the High School - a converted chicken house on the Agricultural grounds - behind the Mahon Hall.

It’s really where the junior school is now, but it was a High School, converted from a chicken coop as we called it..

We had a lot of sports on the island when we were young.

Very keen athletes.

Tennis, and grass hockey

And the boys were basketball -

We played basketball too.

We did too, but they were better than we were.

Well I wouldn’t say that!

Oh I think they were. I think they beat the Blue Ribbons at one time, Salt Spring.

Oh did they?

Yes.

Oh, we used to go over to Chemainus and to Duncan and play the Black Cat Café. (laughter)

We weren’t very popular in Duncan, I don’t think.

No, we weren’t, but that’s another story. (laughter)

I remember we used to walk up to St. Mary’s Lake and you could skate right across St. Mary’s Lake. And we’d walk up to Bullovk’s, we didn’t mind walking in those days.

Yes, a great bonfire we’d have at the edge of the lake and skate..

You could skate right across St. Mary’s Lake.

That was only one winter. I think it was only one winter when it was very solid. But Mr. Bullock’s lake we did.

There were other tennis courts than those at Harbour House.

Mr. Bullock had a tennis court we used to play, and Mrs. Halley out at the North End.

Yes, Mrs. Halley and the Bests.

And the Simpsons.

The other thing in the old days was the boat, I’ve forgotten which was the one that used to come in, I’m thinking of Dad and George Borradaile’s time and the boys that used to like to have the odd drink. The captain, they’d go on board and the captain would take the boat out.

They had a bar, didn’t they, yes.

I think they had to be, what was it, five miles out or something, and they’d open the bar and bring the boys back. One time Dad and George Borradaile came to and they were in Nanaimo!

They probably did have a nice trip.

They’d order their liquor in kegs, you’d get a keg of Scotch delivered. Mum used to say all the ‘good boys’ around would spot the name on the keg, and you’d have visitors for the next two weeks, dropping in.

13_DoreenMorris_and_BettyStone.mp3

otter.ai

18.01.2023

no

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Today we have the story of two people born on Saltspring. Our Interviewer Is Mrs. Dorothy rotten, no ski knee McMillan. Born in Duncan in 1907. Dorothy wrote for the columnist for over a quarter of a century. And today she's interviewing Doreen Morris, who's Nick Croft and the granddaughter of Reverend C. Wilson and daughter of Mr. Fred Crofton, who was the original owner of harbor House Hotel. With us also we have Mrs. Betty stone. Knee Kingsbury was born in 1912 on the old divide. Would you like to begin the interview? Dorothy?

Unknown Speaker 0:42
Yes. Betty stone Where did when did your parents come to?

Unknown Speaker 0:49
Well, Dad came out from Ireland and it was 1903 with via Australia with a pal Hugh Green who also settled on the island near Fulford, daddy bought up from the divide and he was going to go in for chicken farming although he didn't know anything about it. And mother followed him out the following year and they were married down in the church at Fulford and I understand they were the first couple married in that church know that St. Mary's and mother came up from Dublin and she was a city girl and had never done anything and she found it terribly lonely up on where they were they didn't see people for two or three weeks at a time. And chicken ranching didn't amount to anything. So before the war dad was postmaster down at Ganges for Mrs. Mowat, who was known as granny Morton those days. And we lived where the Hastings are no. next door neighbors to the Crofton, so I sort of grew up with them. Now when war broke out, daddy joined up and we left for Victoria. And then we turned 11 years afterwards.

Unknown Speaker 2:01
True. You were born weren't true story.

Unknown Speaker 2:04
I was born and had a house when he was out and still is. I was a farm house at the time and

Unknown Speaker 2:11
1911 Was it reading as a farm?

Unknown Speaker 2:15
It was a farm till 1916.

Unknown Speaker 2:19
And that's when your mother,

Unknown Speaker 2:21
my mother and my uncle Norman Wilson went into partnership partnership for a short term. That was when your father was overseas. He was overseas. Yes. And then when he came and when it was fed.

Unknown Speaker 2:36
And they started by tents, was it? It was

Unknown Speaker 2:39
intense. Candlelight, no electricity. And I think the family we all did the cooking start with faithful believing came 40 years ago. So

Unknown Speaker 2:54
yes, well, it was actually it wasn't it that your mother felt that friends of hers in Vancouver must be lonely with her husband's overseas? I asked them to come for

Unknown Speaker 3:04
yes, it was. It just grew by you know, knowing many people who want it. When you think of it, it was $14 a week or something like that. Some of it was even cheaper than that. The other stay for weeks on end.

Unknown Speaker 3:21
While you've always lived on the island. Yes. So you've seen tremendous changes that have come? Some good, some bad,

Unknown Speaker 3:31
some is sad to see the changes and others I think is all to the good. And

Unknown Speaker 3:36
you think but as a small girl, what sort of are your memories of the island?

Unknown Speaker 3:43
None of us had very much money. No, if it was all like it was I think for anybody in those days, I think. So if anybody gave us five cents, we thought we had a million dollars to remember Muay Thai and people giving to us.

Unknown Speaker 4:00
Well, that your funding would be made by yourselves too.

Unknown Speaker 4:05
Oh, yes. Well, how many my brothers went over digging potatoes and provoke Ireland when they were 12 and 14 when dad was overseas, and I just didn't make money and we had you know, during the war, or when mother ran the hotel itself. And then we had been rather surprised

Unknown Speaker 4:26
to come back and find his house, growing family. How many whether in your family

Unknown Speaker 4:33
there was 776 before he went overseas, so she was left with little ones but the older ones and then you know, Diana, Sister Diana was the older one.

Unknown Speaker 4:47
Well, your grandfather Reverend d. F. Wilson, was he not the first Resident Kurzman

Unknown Speaker 4:58
been controversy over death, but I always believed he was a first resident,

Unknown Speaker 5:03
but he was here quite a long time. I mean, from 1894 Till

Unknown Speaker 5:09
then he retired in 1812. And he went to Victoria, and he lived in Europe and then yes, they actually came from Sioux Sainte Marie to Victoria on the Burnside road and that was the second Barnsbury because the old form in England was called bands B. And then it called us home on the Burnside road band. And when when they moved to Salt Spring Island, and at 94 bound V, which is now the Salt Spring Island golf club.

Unknown Speaker 5:44
Yeah, so the big old house that was there were astounding. But it was a golf club before that. Yes. Just started

Unknown Speaker 5:53
a few years before, was it because I think I'm gonna owe him. I think he was dead when it was. Yeah, as long as 90 days. And

Unknown Speaker 6:11
in your sort of earlier memories do you almost must have known everybody on the island?

Unknown Speaker 6:17
Yes, we did. The funny things about them all. Yes, Betty and I were reminiscing about almost announcer he used to drive a horse from Lourdes long. And oh, it was just when the first motor cars were to me and there was a gas pump trading company. So he blithely would drive up and tie his rope around the gas pipe. The pump well, they went in together stores. And then he always visited the pub dad store at the beer parlor and about 1923 or 24

Unknown Speaker 6:57
That's when the pub was open. Yes, it

Unknown Speaker 6:59
was after he came home that took a while to get a license. I

Unknown Speaker 7:02
didn't know it was that long.

Unknown Speaker 7:04
First car was Mr. Blackburn up the divide? Yes. And then Mr. Bullock and Daddy was secretary of the agricultural show in those days. And he wrote a letter to Mr. Bullock he had it framed for years I think Dr. Tommy got it in the end or Gavin mode. I remember they wanted asking Mr. Bullock if you drive his car down to Ganges on a Thursday AMRAAM where the Mon hole is now so that the horses could get used to the car because the cream and the eggs and everything was taking off in every direction car

Unknown Speaker 7:42
because the horses were the first cars so he could only drive a day on market day he didn't know he was

Unknown Speaker 7:53
there another day when he the ladies wanted to drive and ride on their horses or their opponent Yeah, just

Unknown Speaker 8:01
as they definitely restricted Yes, you know when he could drive this car and when he'd bring it down and let the horses get used to it

Unknown Speaker 8:09
well Blackburn is that backbone Lake is named after Yes, it is now that museum Well, where were you born?

Unknown Speaker 8:18
I was born up on the divide just behind black friends.

Unknown Speaker 8:23
Well, there was no road as we know it. No, it went over the divide. Divide to Fulford Yeah. Sort of like over a small mountain really wasn't it? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 8:34
We go up the mountain and collect 10 cents each and get a jug of wine called up Mountain Dew, but Nelson's blood and all kinds of weird things and we'd all go up and get a gallon of this stuff for 50 cents drive home quite happy

Unknown Speaker 8:51
never ran into any trouble no no.

Unknown Speaker 8:55
No the ditches in those days of course. I think that the cars the old Fords which we drove didn't go fast enough for the roads were very windy and you know you think you were going in a terrific rate but it was just the bumps and bangs that were going on.

Unknown Speaker 9:14
And then you move to Victorian came back here though, didn't you? Oh, well. I

Unknown Speaker 9:18
went to left during the war.

Unknown Speaker 9:23
Nobody went to school Victoria for a while. Yes. Well,

Unknown Speaker 9:25
I left the island when I was about two. Oh, and then came back when I was 13.

Unknown Speaker 9:31
Oh, and finished schooling here. Yes. And then you were in charge went through the telephone for

Unknown Speaker 9:39
I went to work in the telephone office in 1926 I guess and in those days it was open from 10 to one and five to seven on Sunday. And it closed at 1030 at night

Unknown Speaker 9:54
and on weekdays on weekdays

Unknown Speaker 9:56
until during the war just after Japan entered the war. There was a deal of jet balloon landing or being sited on Maxwell mountain, or Musgraves. I'm not sure which was one of the high mountains. And so I had to keep the office open all night. Because we had blackouts in those days, you know, you had to check everybody with their blackouts. And that was the first time that the office from then on it was open at night. Then those days, were only 200 subscribers that night on party lines. Yes, yeah, it'll be seven or eight on a party line. And at night, if there was anybody very ill, we had sort of a three way plugs, we'd plug them in with a doctor. Or if there was an emergency that either wait was Aikens who was the agent or myself and we'd go and open the office. For any emergencies, which were once in a while.

Unknown Speaker 10:52
Well, it'd be no ambulance then wonder No, we just came by.

Unknown Speaker 10:57
And if there was a fire, you just fold them up. Anybody that was around

Unknown Speaker 11:01
in the questions used to get we'd found the telephone operator and say, is the boat coming down the harbor? What times Mary coming in? Or what is the time? Yeah, I was very polite. They got this out. So you know, they'd give us a tie. And if there was a fire, where was the central the doors tilts?

Unknown Speaker 11:20
And then somebody had phone and they'd want so and so on, then we'd know that she was out playing bridge with tea until we'll try Mrs. So and so she's going there.

Unknown Speaker 11:32
It was more of a friendly exchange, the

Unknown Speaker 11:35
the telephone exchange.

Unknown Speaker 11:37
I think in a way it was a terrific deal on election night in the old days, because there was a definitely liberals and conservatives in the Croft ins were the Conservatives and the moments with liberals is he and every time Uncle Fred would have a grandchild and be

Unknown Speaker 11:53
first child. He'd phone Gilbert for my vote, and then as you say, it was a grandchild. And they were

Unknown Speaker 12:03
more apt reciprocate.

Unknown Speaker 12:04
Yeah, oh, yeah. Oh, yes. They have a great pals. Check it all is and I generally was working on election night and if the Conservatives were winning, major Turner was a great conservative and I'd get a little present from Turner's store. And if mullets were winning, I'd get a box of chocolates sent over from

Unknown Speaker 12:29
it was Bedlam

Unknown Speaker 12:31
writing because I imagined just too hard. No, it wasn't too

Unknown Speaker 12:35
when St. George's Church burnt down.

Unknown Speaker 12:37
I was never Lucent George

Unknown Speaker 12:39
sprint down. Yes was up on the hill.

Unknown Speaker 12:41
It was Carlson pools. St. Paul's whereabouts was Whap

Unknown Speaker 12:45
opposite care Butterfield. Butterfield was right on the hill there

Unknown Speaker 12:50
on on Ganges Hill.

Unknown Speaker 12:53
And Ivan rushed down and woke me up into the church was on fire and I dashed down to the telephone office. Phone everybody round. We all went out to

Unknown Speaker 13:07
take Mr. Bullock's house was burned to the house was that while he was here, oh, no, no, the new people, the lows.

Unknown Speaker 13:17
Well, he was quite a personality on the island for years so

Unknown Speaker 13:21
very much he taught me how to drive. And he had a car he was very large. I guess you've seen pictures of him in the wheel of the car when he got in it go up so he could get under it and then come back into place. And he was amazing person. He taught me how to carve ham and chickens. He'd have these dinners and he'd asked different girls on the island to be hostess. And we'd have to know how to you know profit properly. Carl thing. You are asked for supper. You are short dress. If you were asked for dinner, you are along down. And he had all these boys from the orphanage in Victoria.

Unknown Speaker 13:58
But also a seven post dinner. Yes, cream, sauces and everything. And all the time he'd be talking about an 18 inch waist. Yeah. And here he was feeding us. We were almost groaning

Unknown Speaker 14:13
Anthony anthroposophic long pair of earrings. Kettle Adlabs.

Unknown Speaker 14:17
16 inch heels. 16. You mean six? I mean, six.

Unknown Speaker 14:21
Yeah. And they did tell us even if we went again is to meet the boat or anything. They all wear high heels. And he liked the veil. And we loves to give a good appearance Bureau

Unknown Speaker 14:34
people would SLUBs given to us. And he was a great one for gimmicks. Now he had something that would sharpen a knife. Well, he wouldn't buy one. He'd buy them in a case or alarm clocks, he by case of alarm clocks, clocks and that sort of thing and he was terribly generous He give us give these things.

Unknown Speaker 14:55
I mean he'd give a party say he bought the case he keeps one and give us two Ways that but they see a lot of girls that used to come over here for holidays he could tell they'd go back

Unknown Speaker 15:10
ESPs Yes.

Unknown Speaker 15:14
pierced earrings on the island then we

Unknown Speaker 15:15
all went to the doctor but he would do it himself. Oh, he would let him he always gave me the little gold rings or what you call slippers. That was the first thing he always gave to anybody that got the SPS,

Unknown Speaker 15:33
but the shoes are really quite something he was used to. Oh, yes. Beautiful shoes, but they had

Unknown Speaker 15:40
the six inch. But you couldn't wear those down to meet the boat. Those were 440 You're

Unknown Speaker 15:46
supposed to wear them as much

Unknown Speaker 15:48
as you could. I can remember we used to have enough I had too many gloves, turned them into eton's and get a nice jusy are very good.

Unknown Speaker 16:02
They probably came from England in the first place.

Unknown Speaker 16:06
There was some from eton's, you know, a French kid, but they were always you know,

Unknown Speaker 16:10
oh, we'd have the long white ones, you know, didn't cost a minute now. But he had a great big bureau in his bedroom. numerous numerous beds, and all these drawers were all labeled the sizes of the gloves and the earrings here. Things here all the way down. These boys are great. They'd have saxophones and all different instruments in the kitchen. You remember in we'd be having dinner. He used to entertainment. Well, like Fraser told me and quite a lot of the well

Unknown Speaker 16:50
Leftenant Governor Bruce

Unknown Speaker 16:51
M. They'd be as little silence during dinner and you'd hear this terrific saxophone coin in the background. The boys felt they'd cook the dinner and then they were running away

Unknown Speaker 17:04
for them though, really? Because it wouldn't be an education for them.

Unknown Speaker 17:09
Oh, yes. And he was very good to them. Well,

Unknown Speaker 17:11
the log cabin was started he bought that for one of his boys who would cook up there. He built log cabin,

Unknown Speaker 17:20
which is now the crest isn't it?

Unknown Speaker 17:22
No, which is now the ship tanker, the ship's anchor.

Unknown Speaker 17:27
But in most yourself Where did you first go to school?

Unknown Speaker 17:34
Yes, Miss Ashton to miss later, Mrs. Oxfam.

Unknown Speaker 17:38
When she had a little school and dandy, yes, kindergarten.

Unknown Speaker 17:41
That's one I have the picture other than I'm afraid I got. I burnt I had it put away from Miller and Toynbee. And it disappeared.

Unknown Speaker 17:52
And then we all went to the public school where it was the first there was one with Mrs. Case Maurice.

Unknown Speaker 18:03
Gavin Mowat lived at one time and then the next one was up with a Catholic school was doing then we went to a chicken that was the high school a high school was converted chicken house chicken, the agricultural grounds which is now behind them on Hall.

Unknown Speaker 18:23
High School Yes, it's really where the junior school is now but it was a high school converted from chicken coop as

Unknown Speaker 18:34
well it can rooms in coops during the war for housing. I guess it wasn't too bad.

Unknown Speaker 18:40
We had a lot of sports on the island when we were young, because

Unknown Speaker 18:43
I was gonna ask you very well. Tennis was the main

Unknown Speaker 18:48
thing. And grass hockey

Unknown Speaker 18:50
when the boys basketball. Well, we played basketball. Yeah, we didn't think they were better than we were. Well, I don't wouldn't say Oh, I went to the blue ribbons at one time.

Unknown Speaker 19:06
Or we used to go to shimmy innocent and Duncan play the Black Cat Cafe.

Unknown Speaker 19:12
Were very popular. And I think No, we weren't. That's another

Unknown Speaker 19:16
story. I remember we used to walk up to St. Mary's Lake and you could skate right across St. Mary's lake. And we'd walk up to books we didn't know walking in those days. So great bonfire. We'd

Unknown Speaker 19:31
have the edge of the lake and skate escape

Unknown Speaker 19:33
right across the muesli

Unknown Speaker 19:35
that was only one frozen over

Unknown Speaker 19:37
I don't think since I've been

Unknown Speaker 19:38
no no, I

Unknown Speaker 19:39
think it was only one winter that I remember was very solid. Mr. Bowditch lake we did

Unknown Speaker 19:47
tennis. There were other tennis courts and those that have

Unknown Speaker 19:51
a tennis court we used to play in Mrs. Halley out at the best.

Unknown Speaker 19:57
I don't remember Simpsons,

Unknown Speaker 19:59
Simpsons I'm noticing in the old days the boat, which was the one that used to come in. And

Unknown Speaker 20:08
Mary came for a long time. But I don't

Unknown Speaker 20:10
know what earlier than that. I'm thinking of dad and George bordellos time and the boys that used to like to have the odd drink the captain, they'd go on board and the captain would take the boat out. I

Unknown Speaker 20:21
had a bottle.

Unknown Speaker 20:23
I think they had to be five miles out or something and they'd open the bar and then bring the boys back. One time dad and George warradale came to and they were in Nanaimo. They probably have a nice trip, but they didn't. They'd order their liquor would be in kegs. You get a keg of Scotch delivered. Mom used to say that the all good boys around with spot the name on the keg and you'd have visitors for the next two weeks. Dropping

Unknown Speaker 20:57
in the girls all the ladies didn't drink at all. Just be one one. I don't think so. I

Unknown Speaker 21:07
don't remember another

Unknown Speaker 21:11
that didn't smoke.

Unknown Speaker 21:15
Oh, I'm talking a smoke.

Unknown Speaker 21:16
Not in public anyway.

Unknown Speaker 21:18
My nurse when when I was being born, it was granny does. She's a grandmother of a commend great grandmother.

Unknown Speaker 21:30
Grandma Sunita died a few years ago didn't

Unknown Speaker 21:34
Well she when we open the crown, we of course I was born up in the crown renown in the hospital or in the granny Jobs was a nurse. And she was sitting across the hospital was down to the bottom of the bed and smoking a pipe. Mother could see her in the glass mirror.

Unknown Speaker 21:52
She was the midwife but yeah.

Unknown Speaker 21:57
A doctor beat to think

Unknown Speaker 21:58
and to beat you don't have a baker?

Unknown Speaker 22:04
You didn't. But that would be in at first there wouldn't be any doctor here would there because

Unknown Speaker 22:11
No, I know grandfather Wilson develop. Brought cousin barrel well at all into the world. Because there was a rush call and he went over and he had I don't know what you call it war. The hospital incident guys, you know, he'd had a certain amount of training. And so he brought the granddaughter into the world because they couldn't get the doctor.

Unknown Speaker 22:34
Well, the hospital itself was the what is now a community center. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 22:42
That was Dr. donated the land. And that was and I think Brother Pat, was born in that hospital. He was the first of the Acropolis to be born there. The rest of us were all born

Unknown Speaker 22:57
at home. Or he was Was he the youngest in the family?

Unknown Speaker 23:01
No, then they'll say the younger one too. She was born there. I know we all had to work hard. It was something that was drummed into us. Either that, you know we as somebody said we worked hard, we played hard. But you know, we loved sports. And we all had to work this out. I remember

Unknown Speaker 23:23
Dorothy was saying as far as making our own fun was quite to the rules house parties. Tell us

Unknown Speaker 23:30
about three centers really is Barnsbury harbor house, Mr. Bullock's for official things. And how about got it feel free and full if it was the white lodge or the White House as it was called and burned out? Yes. And two or three times two or three times? Until first we weren't allowed to go to public dances at the man halls.

Unknown Speaker 23:54
But oh, I always were chaperone Yes. We couldn't go without Mrs. Best was a great shepherd. But there were a terrific amount of dances. And then later when we were going to school, there was schools everywhere I mean North Central School so everyone and have a school dance and you'd be doing the whole week of Chris school concert and the dance you go to Central and you go to the divide and you go down to Beaver point and you go to Fulford, you take them all in.

Unknown Speaker 24:29
And all the yachts used to come from the Vancouver Yacht Club with a girl who days

Unknown Speaker 24:34
big events. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 24:36
always a Saturday night down to the harbor house where we dress it we never went before the war. I mean it was evening dress. Definitely you never went in. Laughter one started just wearing your ordinary.

Unknown Speaker 24:51
These yachts people used to come in on their sporting clothes and here were all the girls and their long dresses. Sometimes a bunny I'd like to go out on board for a drink after Big Ben didn't the Navy's

Unknown Speaker 25:04
Oh yeah, quite often, I spent my 21st birthday on the hood. And then I'd have a downside but Barnsbury and then Mr. Bullock had the Navy up for dinner one.

Unknown Speaker 25:15
I remember the night though, there was a whisk drive at Barnes Bay. And a naval ship was in Admiral and I know a French name, his name. Anyway, he came ashore and you know, his full dress uniform. And a lot of the offices with him. And as the we strive a little late to play that so they were taken up to a bedroom to play some poker, which insulted the Atmel tremendous. You know, not to be soft, everything stopped. He included that to me.

Unknown Speaker 25:58
But there was a gift. Even before the Second World War, there was a branch of the Scottish here wasn't there? Oh, yes. On the island?

Unknown Speaker 26:07
Yes. And actually, brother Desmond was the first you know, what would you call it left tenant Desmond coffin. He was in charge of the company here. And Harry Nichols was the sad side nurse. And Colonel bapta used to come over and teach us Highland dancing.

Unknown Speaker 26:30
And then during the war, a lot of the boys from Sydney the Air Force, Uncle Norman had bonds be that he hadn't any sons overseas, so he would give them free for weekends. They'd come over, they were a lot of the English Air Force. They were dead were on leave sort of not sick.

Unknown Speaker 26:53
They had a pet pay was not a thing was

Unknown Speaker 27:01
sort of

Unknown Speaker 27:02
war effort toward a deal.

Unknown Speaker 27:05
And sort of let them have a good time when they were rich.

Unknown Speaker 27:12
And then during the war two there was quite something Captain best was the head of it actually. But at any plane going over. When you were on the phone, you'd get a call from Fulford and you'd have to clear the long distance lines and it would go right through to Sydney. And you time it from like, when the call came in at forefront this plane was spotted. And there were spotters right across the island. And you'd have them calling in, you know, from Fulford and then half the way up and was who is the responders all over?

Unknown Speaker 27:44
To ensure their safety. Every

Unknown Speaker 27:47
plane that went over was spotted? Any lowness

Unknown Speaker 27:50
was after Pearl Harbor, wasn't it? Sort of nervous?

Unknown Speaker 27:56
Because the ships all used to be blacked out.

Unknown Speaker 27:59
Remember blacking out harbor house blankets the whole thing, you know, on the night of Pearl Harbor, you know, when they said imminent danger, and as he said they probably the phone was kept open the telephone office. But Charlie Toynbee who lived right on the end of moats point didn't have a radio had no news. He had his late going all night full blast, right. The rest of us saw suffering with

Unknown Speaker 28:36
the same night as the balloon was supposed to be spotted. They had forgotten what they call them. I think Dermot was one zero wag and I had to call Ollie. Oh, I'm home defense. Yes, yeah. And they got in the serial WAGs truck I think it was for a couple of drinks. I was in charge of them roared up the mountain

Unknown Speaker 28:59
expecting them to land on

Unknown Speaker 29:01
Bayesian path.

Unknown Speaker 29:05
That wasn't very I don't know what they would want envied us for really I mean, we went

Unknown Speaker 29:10
though, but it was a it was a one

Unknown Speaker 29:13
didn't land on the Sydney, Sydney.

Unknown Speaker 29:15
Well, that would be near James Island. Actually Saltspring was of no vital interest for any jets and as it came by. Miss out but anyway, they had to be on the alert.

Unknown Speaker 29:28
There were Japanese families living on the island then worker

Unknown Speaker 29:32
yes, they mostly evacuated,

Unknown Speaker 29:34
evacuated. Yes, like they were from everywhere on

Unknown Speaker 29:38
the day. They all left on the Princess Mary. And

Unknown Speaker 29:42
another thing that was quite interesting was when the Dukkha bars were on Pier Island. Pure Island was taken over completely with all these Dukkha bars and they'd come then bring them in on wouldn't be the note was just Mary, Mary. They had them all down below and We'd go down to the wharf and the boat came in which calling about three times a week. And you'd see all these Dukkha bars and they were chanting chanting and singing. A lot of people got jobs from here on piers Island.

Unknown Speaker 30:17
When did the very first start? Do you remember? 31? Not until then. You had no way of getting

Unknown Speaker 30:29
to be a little. Frank Crofton would drive a taxi down to Leicester last year had a little lunch go across to Sydney.

Unknown Speaker 30:40
It was this sort of thought you might say.

Unknown Speaker 30:43
Yeah, it was an acetone and Pollux one liter and

Unknown Speaker 30:46
this would be a water taxi. And it wouldn't run in rough weather.

Unknown Speaker 30:52
If we didn't have a car we'd have to get on the old flying nine wasn't and it was later the you know, Coach land. Really an analogy Mr. Day was later than that 37 I think was before King George the sixth Carnage and I wouldn't go off all the time.

Unknown Speaker 31:13
Well, why did you on almost all night at first or was it just

Unknown Speaker 31:16
once it started? Yes, it was that but symbolic and we had a plan to call the into Yes, we had to Oh

Unknown Speaker 31:27
harbor house never burnt up I'll never understand because the the electricity patty and turn it off after the beer pong are closed. And the manual

Unknown Speaker 31:37
examples would be

Unknown Speaker 31:39
going upstairs in the hotel,

Unknown Speaker 31:41
wavering a little bit sometimes

Unknown Speaker 31:43
before the electricity was brought to the island. And you used to turn your plant off, I suppose.

Unknown Speaker 31:51
Well, it depends on what time the boys wanted to go out. Yes, it was about Jenny about 12 o'clock and a

Unknown Speaker 32:01
lot of scorch curtains upstairs.

Unknown Speaker 32:04
Well, I'm out there was tea served on the patio every afternoon and then leaving.

Unknown Speaker 32:10
Coming looking. Yes, tips covered. You know, it was it was really

Unknown Speaker 32:15
tea at night at 10 o'clock. Again, all three. But they loved it. They'd gather in the lounge for the blazing fire and

Unknown Speaker 32:23
used to have terrific tennis tournaments. In the old days here. Two people had come from all over. It was

Unknown Speaker 32:31
supposed to be the best pod courts and BC you know, like try? No, that's bad. And they were really quite famous. And it was it would wind up the end of August after the most of the players have been on the circuit.

Unknown Speaker 32:45
They'd have treasure hunt one night and then they end up with a big downside.

Unknown Speaker 32:49
scavenger hunts cabinet.

Unknown Speaker 32:54
The barns brie, who they're always the same during your grandfather's time? Yes,

Unknown Speaker 32:59
actually, they moved. As I told you the first the band B that was in Victoria, they bought sections of it to Salt Spring Island. And that was the original bound to be on top spring Ireland was the home of Victoria. When they arrived and bought the property of 100 acres. It was just a log on it and very old log. And then they brought the section from how did they get on the bad side? That I can't remember. It was probably bought Beskow I imagine. That's the only way we probably all but yes, it could have been no grandfather Wilson when he first came to the island. He went from Cooper to CVS and didn't caught brought him from Cuba to the CVS. And he walked up in what he called a trail from the service to Stevens boarding house, which is now a migrant cutting him guy cutting him live. That's a big old house on say but the profit boundary wasn't built till about 19 Six I don't think they just did it gradually and all the young people worked and clear the farmers

Unknown Speaker 34:16
land he worked out as a farm as

Unknown Speaker 34:18
well. Oh yes, they had cows and pigs and chickens and and everything. That's what they had to live on. Because that was his income. He was allowed 500 from the mission fund and for at 500 A year 400 from the the parishioners you know the clicks, so that was 900 for a family of 10 to live in the vicarage a year.

Unknown Speaker 34:49
So that was really a farm.

Unknown Speaker 34:53
It was they have to work at themselves because they had a small income from England. but not enough to really

Unknown Speaker 35:03
go anywhere. Not with 10 children anyway.

Unknown Speaker 35:06
They seem to have a help and

Unknown Speaker 35:10
well was your mother one of the older

Unknown Speaker 35:13
she was the ninth child she what's her name was noona oh

Unknown Speaker 35:23
and her seven children and your father's Red Cross all your names except Patty begin with the was there any

Unknown Speaker 35:33
Well it started with damnit. And Jasmine which they like to good Irish names and then Diana has named after now and in Ireland and that's an extraordinary thing grandfather Wilson would not Christian Diana because he thought it was a pagan name a pagan Yeah, well Diana who know the woods Oh, yes. So and he didn't wouldn't Chris into he was a very strict and then I was during I think they got that they liked the name and then some people and then Denise and Donovan Patrick but rather Pat changed his name to it was paddy when he was young and then pets because he didn't like recall when he went to school he was called donkey. You know, dawn on them donkey. So he changed his own. So that's why when they say Why is he not a D he's really Donovan.

Unknown Speaker 36:30
He's diamond pack. Now

Unknown Speaker 36:31
he affects everybody there was I know, PD Patrick Donovan, but and then there was delta.

Unknown Speaker 36:41
So you all became these?

Unknown Speaker 36:43
As we say, each one worked at Harbor hosts as the Hotel Group, the family goon. Each one in their turn ran the hotel. This has happened.

Unknown Speaker 36:56
So sorry about family affair.

Unknown Speaker 37:00
He's a cook.

Unknown Speaker 37:01
Yes, it was. I mean, we girls waited on table and the boys did the farm. Dad was in charge of the beer pot as he used to call it a pub. And then as the boys got a Democrat older he was helped him and Desmond married Yang. He built his house spin corner. So he didn't really come into the hotel till later on, you know, long after. And yeah, he was the last one there. He was the last one that stayed on when we sold them 64

Unknown Speaker 37:38
Basically the only time it wasn't open was it Christmas day. But

Unknown Speaker 37:42
we used to have it open and then we we sort of felt it was well it was known I felt you know it was rather nice just to have family and when we were all gathered there was 40 of us anyway you know that was grandchildren as we have married and had children so it was quite a big party in itself. And if we had guests we'd have all had to wait on them so

Unknown Speaker 38:07
you decided to have your own state

Unknown Speaker 38:09
yes

Unknown Speaker 38:13
it was an interesting life because you met so many interesting people from all walks of life you know, gaming the place now once when they each had their special tint that they liked and would you know get it for the two months whether it was down under an apple tree or near somewhere else

Unknown Speaker 38:34
but then you gradually added on to be oh

Unknown Speaker 38:36
yes then we did when electricity came in bathrooms were put in

Unknown Speaker 38:41
a no locks on the doors so

Unknown Speaker 38:45
we did have some keys but they could open any door but sometimes we had them numbered and we'd get into very finicky people they thought they had their own key but really good skeleton

Unknown Speaker 39:02
What was your father Irish?

Unknown Speaker 39:04
Yes, he was born in Ireland and he came out and he was 16 years old. And he came to Jack's Cavell and then bought the property at Harbor houses. Now,

Unknown Speaker 39:18
he bought it. Well, he must have worked for a few years did he did

Unknown Speaker 39:21
he worked as he was married when he was about 20 years old. Michael thank you often came out later to learn us but he married but he could have stayed. Yeah, yes, they did stay with them. And my uncle Anna's Croft and married Mary Bullock. It was Mr. Bullock's sister. So that's why although we were in a relationship where there was a connection Yeah. Thinking about Christmases, because the tradition was you must have bread sauce, red crams cranberry sauce and start with grapefruit. Calm so me trayful And of course the plum pudding and mince pies but I think it was pretty mutual to what everybody has Christmas dinners really. I don't know that everybody goes in for bread crumbs and red sauce as much these days. The Game Wardens used to come around and of course there was plenty of deer on the island. And we weren't allowed in a hotel to serve game. But that we could have it made into a steel and they wouldn't know the difference that it was, you know, veal or beef stew, so we were having it this day. suddenly somebody came out the kitchen door and they said the game wardens going to have lunch here. So that quickly I forgot what he got for lunch. We used to send our guests out on picnics on a Wednesday or something, get a boat, send them all off and then we'd be left. You know at home at Harbor house is my mother would sit on the patio. Isn't it heavenly without those beastly borders. She didn't mean it that way. But it was just the quietness of not having to be nice to somebody a smile or entertainer because she was a very gracious and she always gave a certain a very charming to everybody but

Unknown Speaker 41:26
it was pretty much been very young when she was married to

Unknown Speaker 41:28
yes she was three years older than Dan think he was 20 and she was 23 or something

Unknown Speaker 41:40
blasting through my grandfather Wilson's dairy. He came to Canada with his family that was most of them were born in Canada. I think three of the eldest children are born in England in 1868. And he was a missionary. And he started an Indian School at Sioux Sainte Marie, where all the family were bought up until they decided to move to Victoria, British Columbia. And they only stayed there two years but grandfather Wilson arrived from Cooper Island, February the fourth 1894. And Mr. Betancourt seen seemed to have a large family directed his boat this way he is but he came in his boat over to the service bay. I mean, when did my solitary way from service bay up through the woods to Stevens boarding house. There I had dinner and word was sent round the neighbors that there would be service in St. Mark's Church Meza was no telephone or any way of communicating the it was just sent by word and he was quite pleased that 22 persons assembled we had a nice little service. From then on, he moved his family to Salt Spring in 1896 It's a picture St. Mark's Church here at 94. They can't really see their image of the church. That's the Stephens boarding house. bound to be Salt Spring Island was built in 1895. And that was the official acreage of Salt Spring Island is bound by that became the resident director of the island where the large family grew up and worked hard. And then of course they all married and most of them lived on Salt Spring Island that my mother know now the night Child. My father Fred poor, often who came out from Ireland and stayed with Mr. Scoville and bought a farm of 100 acres. And the original habit house, which was really just a farm house was built in 1890. Now this is something that amuses me and I think it was about my father as a little boy, is, as I said he was born in Ireland, near Dublin. Fred as a boy was fickle, and full of life and fun, and most independent from the very earliest. It was ball rolled away. He does not sit them how as one of his brothers used to, but once tried to get it even though it's quite impossible place. His NIFS often said Master Fred will work his own way through life. He and Frank slept in the dirt that Frank was the younger brother slept in cots. And one evening the nursery gardeners heard the younger one asked Fred how they would get to heaven seemed to puzzle him at first but at length. The thought struck him that he would climb up how he did not say and would let down a rope for Frank. Once these two scamps he had for two hours and led tree and Menaka tree until a large body of sailors and others it's good the piers and Harbour. This was exit Kingston in Ireland and a grandfather Croft and was Harbormaster Kingston. And at last the search in the garden. They search the garden and Fred's giggles betrayed them. They were very small at the time and it was a stiff climb and high but the four boys could all claim like monkeys from a very early age. With all our fun and tricks, they were all good boys. These are the four Croft and senior boys and never cause the parents any trouble. Fed was educated at coring school Kingstone in 1897 He left England because he was educated in Ireland and he came to live with Mr. Jeff Scoville was also from Ireland and a great friend the family. And there he was 100 acres. He has now offices in the time of 1890 96. He has now a good team of horses, a coat for cows and a lot of pigs and chickens. The family consists present of himself wife and two little boys, the eldest of whom is Dermot. And then the most Desmond knotless. The men the rest of the bees came on from one by one but every one or two years. My daughter before her house was sold. It was the last family wedding as it was the original, she's Wendy Bowers field summit in Victoria. So we like to remember the happy days we had at our house and on the island and general at all our cousins and good friends. I think many of the community would remember my husband Fred Morris, who was president of the Royal Canadian Legion, president of the golf club, and rod and Gun Club, and he was a very cheery, friendly person. And so many letters that I got when he went I can't describe how everybody loved him for his cheery smile and willing to do anything for anybody that has something I would like to say that my husband