Subject: Burgoyne Valley vs. Fulford Valley
your opinion?

Why do people consistently misname the valley between Fulford  Harbour and Burgoyne Bay.  It is the Burgoyne Valley.  There is no geographical location named Fulford Valley.  Please change your incorrect reference to the only adds to the confusion.

David Astill

To All,

I agree with David Astill. This is an important message that should be addressed by the archives. There are several other geographical misnomers - Stowe Lake, Bulman (one L) are two that should also be addressed. I am sure there are others. Salt Spring Island is another, which I think we have addressed as well as we can, with the error made and protected by Ottawa.

Mary Davidson
Archives Staff.

Thank you, David for pointing that out.
I am aware that there are many mistakes in the website.
I am completely dependant on your corrections. Please email me the correct text, the URL of the page and I will change it.
I myself do a little as possible of writing or reading. I almost completely depend on all of you to do the editing. Please include the pages and it will be corrected.
This website was created by you and me and a hundred of our closest friends, none of us accomplished historians and linguists.


Replace number 108 with:

108 Mt. Maxwell

old barn from Burgoyne Valley

Thank you for all the corrections.
A brief scan revealed that "Fulford Valley" appears several hundred times, so it will be a project.

I have a problem with replacing Fulford Valley on Marshall Sharp's catalogue, as that are his words, his catalogue, a document by itself.
I will carry on tomorrow.

Can you add Burgoyne Valley in brackets after it? "Retain the integrity of the fonds but then do the actual name? "I think there must be a rule in the RAD stuff about that somewhere!

Hi All,

We need to maintain the integrity of authors original writings. Name changes including road name changes happen from time-to-time. We should not be changing place names to suit the current topography.

Perhaps we could just add a notes list with name changes and when/why they happened.

Just a thought.

Diaen Alton-Kaighin

From: Christopher Arnett <>

Hi, Just to weigh in on this issue for fun...I remember talking to the late Bob Akerman about the two names ie Fulford  vs Burgoyne Valley. He said that in the 'old days' , when the post office was located at Burgoyne Bay (in the old Maxwell house,)  it was the focus of the local community (on island and off) and thus the name Burgoyne became naturally applied to the valley beyond the PO..Later, with the closure of the Burgoyne PO and the establishment of a PO at Fulford (to meet the requirements of a growing South end population) people took on a "Fulford-centric" view of the geography and began to refer to the valley as Fulford in light of its proximity to the new social hub of the south end..its a matter of perspective and practice....things change...(i won't even get into the Hul'q'umi'num' and Saanich  names which predate the current toponymy by centuries if not thousands of years), Cheers, Chris (PS In my own practice I tend to think of the valley as "Fulford" up to about Jones Road when  it morphs slowly into " Burgoyne" , but thats just me). 

Hello Everyone,

The first, and amazingly many instances I sent Frank, were all my own usage. I am happy to stand corrected - was indeed corrected in person since I wrote the Lesson Plans in which they appear(ed) on the website. I was relieved and grateful to have pointed out to me by David's email the need for me to correct my own contribution to the confusion! I have let him know that.

Then I settled down to finding out where else the "Fulford Valley" was appearing on the SSIA website, and began to send Frank what I found, but also began to flag and flounder (it was late at night).

I'm afraid I assumed the captions to Marshall Sharp's photos had been supplied by unflagging SSIA volunteers, a hasty assumption arising no doubt from my alarm at the sheer weight of my personal unwitting contribution to confusion!

If the captions with Marshall Sharp's photos were Marshall Sharp's captions, I think Frank can leave them be. How come? I have written a spiel (below).

Usha's Spiel re Common but Un-Historical Usage

When a document received and preserved by the SSIA contains an 'error', it can be (even should be) left as it is.

Experienced researchers have a method for dealing with such "erroneous" documents, without altering the "error".
The researcher using that document can write, in parentheses, the Latin word "sic" to signify that the source is incorrect in the view of the user of that source, but retaining for posterity that this variant usage was the original usage of the source itself, a quote from which is being used. This solution is used commonly for different spellings from the norm, or for misnomers, such as 'Fulford Valley'. From a trained researcher's perspective, it is "incorrect" to alter a primary source, even when that primary source is (i.e. appears) totally inaccurate.

[end of Usha's explanatory spiel - square brackets denoting contents to be deleted or disregarded ...]


What David Astill will expect from the SSIA site, and the volunteers who serve it, is a clear understanding that the phrase "Fulford Valley"Êdoes not have the prior claim, although it may be used commonly by many in the community itself, and by its common usage alone therefore deemed by such users to be the "correct" usage, because it is, for them, the current usage. Their usage, nevertheless, does not have the historical (prior) claim.

[I should perhaps point out that David Astill is tired of a what can be a contentious issue in this instance! For example, Bob Akerman's 2005 book about the Akerman Family (residents of the Valley in question from earliest settler times) uses the "Fulford Valley" term, which even appears in the Index, whereas the term "Burgoyne Valley" does not. Some users of the term may well do so on purpose to provoke those who insist on the "Burgoyne Valley" usage; if not to cock snooks exactly, then to press their buttons, if those buttons pop off readily, to the amusement of those who don't care as much, or at all ...]

The prior claim to the name is, incontrovertibly, "Burgoyne Valley" (for the very simple reason that "Fulford" was not a community or even an area named as such or even referred to as such, by any Salt Salt Spring Islander, or even the authorities, until decades later than Burgoyne Bay and the Burgoyne Valley was known and referred to as an area and as a community, by Islanders and off-island authorities.

So, historically speaking (as the SSIA should/could if not ought to speak) "Burgoyne Valley" is the historically accurate usage, and subsequent usage, however common, can be viewed as usurping the historical origin, and thus "incorrect" usage.

Mind you, being both a Libra (prone to on the one hand this and on the other hand that!) and lingusitically trained, I feel compelled to say that common usage does assert its right to usurp outdated usage, and often succeeds. That's whyÊthe word "silly" has lost its original special connotation, derived fromÊthe lovely Anglo Saxon word "selig" (holy), which suggested "inspired", alight with divine inspiration.

Bob Akerman presumably grew up in the Burgoyne Valley, and familiar with Burgoyne Bay; he did call the school he went to "Burgoyne School". But by his 90's when the book was written, Bob may have felt like a person who now had more of a relationship with the subsequent community of Fulford than with the steamship arrivals and departures from Burgoyne Bay. Or he may have been unwittingly influenced - as I was - by the Realty and Tourism usage, naming what Reverend Wilson (judicially?) called The Valley, "Fulford Valley".

Hi Chris
Thank you for taking the knots out of my stomach.
I have a rigid and crusty old mind, and I generally reject the new fangled ways, but if it means to track down several hundred references in 150 thousand documents, I will lean towards change.

I agree that place names do evolve over time and find it facinating reading about the how's and why's of this process. Chris Arnett's information regarding his conversation with Bob Akerman is an example. Perhaps an explanation in the Driftwood and/or on the webpage acknowledging the origins and evolution of names would be acceptable. Isn't there a book of place names?











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